Post #297857 by Sneakytiki on Mon, Apr 9, 2007 11:33 AM

That theory has already been proposed and debunked.

There are Caucasian and American Indian genes on Easter island. These genes don't prove any kind of "early" contact. It is impossible to prove when a gene entered the "pool" on Easter island.

A similar theory showed that Easter Islanders have the most diverse gene pool of Polynesian genes out of any island/group a few years back and also showed that there were amerindian genes present on Rapa, this theory was supposed to give creedence for E. Island being the starting point of Polynesian culture, ala Heyerdahl, which then supposedly spread westward to C. Polynesia etc..contrary to prevailing well supported theories of Austronesian origin supported by linguistics, DNA. anthropology, archeology, carbon dating etc. .

Only the most brief look at these results would lead one to believe that this proves anything other than that islanders have procreated with non Islanders. As to the antiquity of the genes the article conveniently left out the fact that slaver ships decimated E. Island and many other archipelago's early on and that through the work of various charitable and moral individuals it was arranged that Polynesian slave labor in S. America be halted. This was no big loss as the miserable Islanders were dying like flies and less than 10% had survived. It was arranged that a small ship would return the remaining Easter islanders and other natives home. The islanders continued to die off on the journey to E. Island and the decision was made to leave a group of 15 islanders from all the island groups on E. Island for fear that they would perish if the journey continued, hence, very diverse Polynesian DNA on Easter Isle as there were only a handful of natives left when these slaves were taken. The name Rapa- Nui isn't even native to the Easter isle dialect. There is also a well documented early occurrence that provides one of the many more likely explanations for European and Amerindian DNA in Rapa and Easter Islanders. That occurrence was the intentional marooning of two Peruvians and one Mexican sailor for punitive reasons. Peruvians and Mexicans from lower classes are most often Indian/Spanish Mestizos, sometimes with a little african blood thrown in for good measure. Do you think it's possible that on an island with very few individuals they could have inter-married and produced offspring. It seems very likely.

This doesn't even take into consideration all the other sailors and tourists who've before and since passed through, so to speak. Another interesting note is that there was no Mitochondrial DNA that was specifically Indian, a large colony would have been Men AND Women. The oldest bones on Easter Island have been tested and showed no Indian genetic characteristics but did show SE Asian/Polynesian genetic characteristics. Thor said the Peruvian Vikings were there first...Why aren't the oldest bones some kinda' Euro-Indian?

A genetic analysis was taken a couple of years back on a Lakota Reservation that could not find any individuals with less than 1/16th European ancestry. This even amongst those who called themselves "full bloods" and had no knowledge of their "white" ancestry. Now, according to the researchers methods you posted, I could use this as "evidence" to prove that the Sioux were descended in part from Long ago European types who traveled across the ocean and continent... It's the old Occam's Razor "when you have two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, the one that is simpler is the better." So you have to look at ALL the facts and then ask yourself "What is more likely?" Probably misogny and intermarriage, white captives and natives raped, etc...

I for one would be very surprised if there were never any Polynesians in N and S America. I would be mildly surprised to learn that there were never any Indians in the Pacific, but, to say that the Moai were based on Incan statues? To say that American Indians were a major contributor genetically and culturally to ALL Polynesians??? To say Polynesian culture spread from East Pac. to West???

I studied Non Western art history and S America/Polynesia are no more similar than any other two non Western cultures. There are precedents for large stone statues elsewhere in C. Polynesia. etc..

I'm not disputing diffusionist theories at all. Thor got that part right. His methods and particular "theories" (ideas really) based on "I think NW Indians were a major contributor to Polynesia cuz their artwork looks similar to me" etc etc, are on the other hand, highly unlikely and unreputable. He claimed that NW Amerindians were a large part of the Polynesians ancestors, no genetic proof for that.

Being objective and looking at all evidence is good science. Being a layman and having an idea, then grasping at anything that supports it, while overlooking vast amounts of info that doesn't support it, is Cult science, pseudo science, racist science, nationalistic science, etc... There are several religious/cult groups that practice the same sort of "methods" Heyerdahl did. There are Chariots of the Gods "scientists" who claim exra terrestrial intervention was necessary to perform any of the wonderful feats that humans have accomplished. When you educate yourself on the cultures, look at ALL the possibilities, are aware of the various explanations, the "science" these guys do is lame.

Easter Island has only been occupied a few hundred to a 1000 years based on anyone's estimates from either camp, so any ANCIENT genetic evidence is self disproving. Usually within 5 -7 generations (approx. 120 years or so) the specificity of a genes introduction time-wise is lost due to all humans being incredibly similar genetically and the great amount of shared DNA we all carry. Those marooned sailors were well before 120-140 years ago. In a large population like Germany for example, the average German has 6% East Asian blood, based on any given individual it's impossible to tell if the ancestry is from 4 generations or so back or a cumulative large admixture from hundreds of years ago x many ancestors. Now when you take the national average consistently being that high (If only HITLER knew, hehe!) It points at a large cumulative admixture far enough back for it to evenly disperse. Most scientists agree Mongol invasions are the answer. Now in a small population like Easter Island post contact with say 100 individuals or less, a couple of inter-racial liasons can become a significant portion of the cumulative DNA in a very short amount of time, averaging homogenously like the Germans Asian genes in far far less time due to the small population.

Also please consider the source of the article/study you posted. Oslo!! Since Heyerdahl's "red headed viking Indians settle the Americas and Pacific" theory some people in a certain part of the world have tried to "prove" that viking like... hmmmmmmm Norwegian types created every technological and navigational accomplishment in the Western world. I guess Pacific Islanders an' Native Americans were not smart enuf to build pyramids and Moai without red bearded Kon-tiki, the Peruvian viking to show us the way, LOL! it strikes me as ironic sometimes that Thor fought against the Nazis in WWII cus they sure would have liked his "science" and had similar theories themselves. BTW in archeological circles Oslo has a very bad name for turning out some nationalistic cult scientists.

Peace,
ST

To drown sorrow, where should one jump first and best? "Certainly not water. Water rusts you." -Frank Sinatra

[ Edited by: Sneakytiki 2007-04-22 03:26 ]

[ Edited by: Sneakytiki 2007-04-26 09:07 ]