Diligence is required sooner rather than later - Tiki Music

P professahhummingflowah Member honolulu, hawaii & boston, ma Joined: Mar 11, 2005 Posts: 296	P professahhummingflowah Posted posted on Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:07 PM On 2008-01-15 21:58, basilh wrote: Which recordings of "Adv. in Paradise" are you referring to? I'd love to hear what you're talking about; it's hard to get a sense of this directly over the bulletin board. I thought I explained where in the song the variance was ? after the sub dominant minor modulation to the new key, albeit temporary, then the resolution back to the original via the dominant 7th and the G-Ab note on the Eb chord followed by the G-A notes on the G7th. Where that words are "One Lovely Shore" ... and . "called evermore" Thanks for posting the charts. Sorry: I wasn't clear what you were referring to is because: a) In my band, we do the song instrumentally, and b) I wasn't sure what key you do it in. My band does it in F, as does Arthur Lyman's. Now that I know you do it in C, I have a better understanding of what you're talking about. Well, even though Jazz per se isn't in this discussion, I'll give you my "slant" on it FWIW. I don't think that jazz is irrelevant to this discussion, particularly because many of its musicians are known to be masters of melodic paraphrase (i.e., playing the melody different from what was written), and the original studio recording of the "Adventures in Paradise" theme was done with jazz orchestration ideas of the time. I found a snippet of the original recording online: http://capitainetroy.free.fr/sons/TV_theme.mp3 Practically any performance of the theme (in comparison to the original recording) is an arrangement, since a complete orchestral reproduction is not going to happen. Thus, It's at the arranger's (and musicians') discretion what choices they want to make with the melody, harmony, etc. Furthermore, exotica itself is an extension of jazz. Les Baxter, Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, Harvey Ragsdale, Harold Chang, Bob Drasnin, etc. were all players of jazz background. Even on a per-musician basis, recordings of tunes vary widely depending on instrumentation, performance venue, etc. An example of this is Baxter's "Bacoa." You can hear 2-3 different recordings of it, done by Denny, and the head is different every time. The studio version's different from the live version. We only have these few recordings of it available to us, but my guess is that the piece was performed differently every time it was played. Most of the time the jazz musicians and singers establish the correct melody and lyrics BEFORE the improvisation, that would be the standard procedure except when performing to aficionados. I disagree on this count too, because I suppose it depends on one's definition of what "correct" is. Music, particularly improvised music, is contextual; just as most people are improvising in natural conversation, musicians improvise depending on what is said. We listen back and forth to one another and react as necessary. It's a cause and effect relationship. I would argue that this is true for classical musicians too. Here's a recent recording of WAITIKI playing "Adventures in Paradise" live. You might be into it ... (or, guessing on what you've written above) ... or not! Anyways. This is nice for discussion; thanks for posting it in a separate thread! -PHF P.S.: I checked out the other thread you mentioned -- the one with Jeff Au Hoy. Small world! I know Jeff from high school. Went to a party maybe 6 months ago that we jammed together at. Nice guy. WAITIKI: Exotic Tiki Entertainment From Polynesia & Beyond Videos, MP3s, and More at http://www.waitiki.com [ Edited by: professahhummingflowah 2008-01-15 23:14 ]

On 2008-01-15 21:58, basilh wrote:

Which recordings of "Adv. in Paradise" are you referring to? I'd love to hear what you're talking about; it's hard to get a sense of this directly over the bulletin board.

I thought I explained where in the song the variance was ? after the sub dominant minor modulation to the new key, albeit temporary, then the resolution back to the original via the dominant 7th and the G-Ab note on the Eb chord followed by the G-A notes on the G7th. Where that words are "One Lovely Shore" ... and . "called evermore"

Thanks for posting the charts. Sorry: I wasn't clear what you were referring to is because: a) In my band, we do the song instrumentally, and b) I wasn't sure what key you do it in. My band does it in F, as does Arthur Lyman's. Now that I know you do it in C, I have a better understanding of what you're talking about.

Well, even though Jazz per se isn't in this discussion, I'll give you my "slant" on it FWIW.

I don't think that jazz is irrelevant to this discussion, particularly because many of its musicians are known to be masters of melodic paraphrase (i.e., playing the melody different from what was written), and the original studio recording of the "Adventures in Paradise" theme was done with jazz orchestration ideas of the time.

I found a snippet of the original recording online: http://capitainetroy.free.fr/sons/TV_theme.mp3

Practically any performance of the theme (in comparison to the original recording) is an arrangement, since a complete orchestral reproduction is not going to happen. Thus, It's at the arranger's (and musicians') discretion what choices they want to make with the melody, harmony, etc. Furthermore, exotica itself is an extension of jazz. Les Baxter, Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, Harvey Ragsdale, Harold Chang, Bob Drasnin, etc. were all players of jazz background. Even on a per-musician basis, recordings of tunes vary widely depending on instrumentation, performance venue, etc. An example of this is Baxter's "Bacoa." You can hear 2-3 different recordings of it, done by Denny, and the head is different every time. The studio version's different from the live version. We only have these few recordings of it available to us, but my guess is that the piece was performed differently every time it was played.

Most of the time the jazz musicians and singers establish the correct melody and lyrics BEFORE the improvisation, that would be the standard procedure except when performing to aficionados.

I disagree on this count too, because I suppose it depends on one's definition of what "correct" is. Music, particularly improvised music, is contextual; just as most people are improvising in natural conversation, musicians improvise depending on what is said. We listen back and forth to one another and react as necessary. It's a cause and effect relationship. I would argue that this is true for classical musicians too.

Here's a recent recording of WAITIKI playing "Adventures in Paradise" live. You might be into it ... (or, guessing on what you've written above) ... or not!

Anyways.

This is nice for discussion; thanks for posting it in a separate thread!

-PHF

P.S.: I checked out the other thread you mentioned -- the one with Jeff Au Hoy. Small world! I know Jeff from high school. Went to a party maybe 6 months ago that we jammed together at. Nice guy.

WAITIKI: Exotic Tiki Entertainment From Polynesia & Beyond
Videos, MP3s, and More at http://www.waitiki.com

[ Edited by: professahhummingflowah 2008-01-15 23:14 ]

Post #355237 by professahhummingflowah on Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:07 PM