Post #507982 by TikiHardBop on Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:19 AM

You make a good point bringing in the "Hard-boiled" genre. Since both genres take place in a morally ambivalent universe populated by morally questionable characters, I think many people put films in the Noir genre that more properly belong in the Hard-boiled category.

I think the defining difference is that a character makes a definite moral choice. Like John-O mentioned, its often regular people who make one small, ethical lapse and find themselves essentially doomed because of it. Hence, the abundance of "femme fatales"in the genre. See Double Idemnity, Body Heat, The Killers, etc.

The hard-boiled genre usually involves characters who are well aware of the amoral nature of their universe. They are usually neither regular nor innocent. Which is why I usually put most films featuring any kind of detective or PI in the hard-boiled category rather than noir.

What's great about classic noir is to watch a character become progressively "darker" as they lose their moral bearings. Of course, the great black and white directors could actually make a character progressively darker as the film progressed. Not as easy in color. Go back and watch the three film noirs listed above and watch how the lead character changes from beginning to end of the film. You're not going to see that in the hard-boiled genre.

Not so sure I agree on The Sniper and Taxi Driver. These characters actually start the film morally darker than the world around them. I would consider them psychological thrillers, along the lines of Fritz Lang's "M" or most Hitchcock films. Did you notice that the lead detective in The Sniper is named Frank Kafka? Love that little bit.