Why Destroy Tiki Palaces? - General Tiki

TM tiki mick Tiki Socialite SOCAL Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 4105	TM tiki mick Posted posted on Tue, Feb 1, 2011 4:30 PM On 2011-02-01 14:27, aquarj wrote: CHANGING TASTES Maybe this is where we can blame the hippies (lucas vigor, that's your cue), for leading the larger cultural shift away from exotic escapism in the late 60s. Or maybe it was the bigger picture of global events, in which the hippies only typified the most pronounced reaction to the times as they were, while other strata of the population were changing of their own accord too. Doesn't make much difference - the fact was that tastes changed. However, today's cultural landscape is far more eclectic, and it's possible to see a Forbidden Island or Smuggler's Cove thriving without being in the mainstream. So the mere fact of changing tastes is probably less a factor than we might think, at least directly. Well, a lot of people won't like what I have to say on the subject, but since I was direcly asked...... Changing tastes is perhaps the biggest factor in the decline of tiki, as is a changing demographic. True, I blame the hippy cultural movement for getting the ball rolling, and aiding the decline of cocktail and lounge culture, but since the hippy movement is not that evident in this day and age, I can’t blame them for the continuing decline in tiki. Actually, WE are all to blame. We are to blame when we accept such a watered down and modernized version of tiki as being the "default" tiki scene. I use classical music as a fine example of a style of art that has been around for centuries and has never left or been changed radically. With the exception of a few nuts like Karlhienz Stockhausen, most classical music as written today would not be so unrecognizable to say, Mozart or Beethoven. They would recognize a violin as being the same instrument they wrote for, and sheet music as roughly the same. Audiences would be the same type of people then as they are now. Point being, the classical music audience and culture have done an excellent job of preserving the original concept of classical music, and not allowing it to fade or be watered down so much. When you think of classical music, you pretty much think of Mozart, Bach, Beethoven. Those are the names you typically think of when you think of classical. Artists like “squarepusher” or Trent Reznor are not what you automatically associate with the genre, though they are classical musicians as well as rock musicians. Not so with tiki music (and by extension, Tiki hotels, bars, art, etc). Someone from Martin Denny’s era would step into Don the Beachcombers and hear loud rock music, see people with tattoos and feel very much out of place. I feel we have watered tiki down so much that “Neo-Tiki” and “Tiki Revival” is really all we have left…and why have we done this? Well, no one from our generation likes “sleepy and boring Hapa Haole music” very much. They like rock music with a tiki idol on the album cover, but rock music, period. (sorry Jeff!). Exotica music, as played by Martin Denny and Arthur Lyman, is dead as a door nail with only a few groups making this kind of music anymore. We have changed tiki so much, so that WE feel more comfortable with it, so why are we expecting corporations and hotels to “get it” when we ourselves don’t really “get it”? I think that if you could time-travel the original late 50’s, early 60’s cocktail swinger into any one of today’s temples, they would be shocked and very much out of place. (The movie “blast from the past” really demonstrates this better then I can.) But, on the other hand, if you could time travel one of US back to a real cocktail lounge, we would not even be allowed in through the front door because we would not be “properly attired”. Don’t get me wrong: the creativity in art and music of today’s tiki revival is top notch. Well done, talented, but authentic tiki most of it is NOT! We have allowed so much of the pop culture of the rock and roll age into Tiki, along with the “buffetization” and the “vaguely colonial” fern and wicker culture that Sven laments in his BOT, is it any wonder that the general public has no idea what tiki is? A lot of posters have given reasons why the formerly Hanalei hotel became a beige walled palace of boredom. But there are places like “rainforest café” that though obviously not tiki, still have a childish and inaccurate form of escapism that is close to the original concept of tiki. There are no beige walls there, and it is very cluttered and filled with fake vegetation..... So, it CAN be done. We just have to insist on it, and keep the flame going. The tikiphile back in the day was very much what we would call a “yuppie” today. That’s why I made the point in another thread a while back that bands like “shadowfax” or “Jon Hassell” or “Oregon” or “Paul Winter Consort” were the ultimate successors to people like Martin Denny or Arthur Lyman. Urban savages is what the tiki people were, back in the day, and I am not sure if such a person realty exists today. So what am I really saying? Just that if you want to see Tiki endure, you will place real, original tiki as the main aspect of tiki, and not focus 90% on the modern interpretation of tiki as being all the public sees. Modern tiki is great stuff, as I said, but unfortunately it is all there is on this forum. When a rock group advertises themselves as being “exotica”, for example,then someone has not done their research and we are headed down a slippery slope! Perhaps it is really just a lost cause, though. I don’t see people who never lived the original cocktail culture fully embrace it. I think it may always be doomed to be “retro”.

On 2011-02-01 14:27, aquarj wrote:
CHANGING TASTES
Maybe this is where we can blame the hippies (lucas vigor, that's your cue), for leading the larger cultural shift away from exotic escapism in the late 60s. Or maybe it was the bigger picture of global events, in which the hippies only typified the most pronounced reaction to the times as they were, while other strata of the population were changing of their own accord too. Doesn't make much difference - the fact was that tastes changed. However, today's cultural landscape is far more eclectic, and it's possible to see a Forbidden Island or Smuggler's Cove thriving without being in the mainstream. So the mere fact of changing tastes is probably less a factor than we might think, at least directly.

Well, a lot of people won't like what I have to say on the subject, but since I was direcly asked......

Changing tastes is perhaps the biggest factor in the decline of tiki, as is a changing demographic. True, I blame the hippy cultural movement for getting the ball rolling, and aiding the decline of cocktail and lounge culture, but since the hippy movement is not that evident in this day and age, I can’t blame them for the continuing decline in tiki. Actually, WE are all to blame. We are to blame when we accept such a watered down and modernized version of tiki as being the "default" tiki scene.

I use classical music as a fine example of a style of art that has been around for centuries and has never left or been changed radically. With the exception of a few nuts like Karlhienz Stockhausen, most classical music as written today would not be so unrecognizable to say, Mozart or Beethoven. They would recognize a violin as being the same instrument they wrote for, and sheet music as roughly the same. Audiences would be the same type of people then as they are now. Point being, the classical music audience and culture have done an excellent job of preserving the original concept of classical music, and not allowing it to fade or be watered down so much.

When you think of classical music, you pretty much think of Mozart, Bach, Beethoven. Those are the names you typically think of when you think of classical. Artists like “squarepusher” or Trent Reznor are not what you automatically associate with the genre, though they are classical musicians as well as rock musicians.

Not so with tiki music (and by extension, Tiki hotels, bars, art, etc). Someone from Martin Denny’s era would step into Don the Beachcombers and hear loud rock music, see people with tattoos and feel very much out of place. I feel we have watered tiki down so much that “Neo-Tiki” and “Tiki Revival” is really all we have left…and why have we done this?

Well, no one from our generation likes “sleepy and boring Hapa Haole music” very much. They like rock music with a tiki idol on the album cover, but rock music, period. (sorry Jeff!).

Exotica music, as played by Martin Denny and Arthur Lyman, is dead as a door nail with only a few groups making this kind of music anymore.

We have changed tiki so much, so that WE feel more comfortable with it, so why are we expecting corporations and hotels to “get it” when we ourselves don’t really “get it”?

I think that if you could time-travel the original late 50’s, early 60’s cocktail swinger into any one of today’s temples, they would be shocked and very much out of place. (The movie “blast from the past” really demonstrates this better then I can.) But, on the other hand, if you could time travel one of US back to a real cocktail lounge, we would not even be allowed in through the front door because we would not be “properly attired”.

Don’t get me wrong: the creativity in art and music of today’s tiki revival is top notch. Well done, talented, but authentic tiki most of it is NOT!

We have allowed so much of the pop culture of the rock and roll age into Tiki, along with the “buffetization” and the “vaguely colonial” fern and wicker culture that Sven laments in his BOT, is it any wonder that the general public has no idea what tiki is?

A lot of posters have given reasons why the formerly Hanalei hotel became a beige walled palace of boredom. But there are places like “rainforest café” that though obviously not tiki, still have a childish and inaccurate form of escapism that is close to the original concept of tiki. There are no beige walls there, and it is very cluttered and filled with fake vegetation..... So, it CAN be done. We just have to insist on it, and keep the flame going.

The tikiphile back in the day was very much what we would call a “yuppie” today. That’s why I made the point in another thread a while back that bands like “shadowfax” or “Jon Hassell” or “Oregon” or “Paul Winter Consort” were the ultimate successors to people like Martin Denny or Arthur Lyman. Urban savages is what the tiki people were, back in the day, and I am not sure if such a person realty exists today.

So what am I really saying? Just that if you want to see Tiki endure, you will place real, original tiki as the main aspect of tiki, and not focus 90% on the modern interpretation of tiki as being all the public sees. Modern tiki is great stuff, as I said, but unfortunately it is all there is on this forum. When a rock group advertises themselves as being “exotica”, for example,then someone has not done their research and we are headed down a slippery slope!

Perhaps it is really just a lost cause, though. I don’t see people who never lived the original cocktail culture fully embrace it. I think it may always be doomed to be “retro”.

Post #574205 by tiki mick on Tue, Feb 1, 2011 4:30 PM