Post #669150 by billynbooze on Thu, Feb 28, 2013 2:03 PM

Greetings! I am new to this group but have really enjoyed reading through all of the various posts! A little background info to set up my question on liqueurs and cordials in Tiki drinks.

I work as a professional bartender at a bar that focuses on two main things: classic cocktails made well, using great booze and other high quality ingredients. The other focus of our bar is small but balanced list of house originals that tend to be centered around fresh, local produce (lots of muddling of fresh fruit, herbs, spices and lots of house-made syrups and tinctures). I do all the ordering of liquor and mixers for the bar, and the purchasing requirements--per ownership and our restaurants sommelier--is pretty intense. We carry high quality spirits, liqueurs, and mixers, so no Dekuyper Apple Pucker, no cheap, rot gut brands in the well.

Here's my question and my dilemma: we had a spare room in the restaurant that the owners are now turing into a beautiful bar. They have just now started the build-out. They want it to be a tiki themed bar, with tiki drinks new and old, in addition to classic caribbean drinks. I am in charge of ordering all the liquor, cordials, and mixers for this tiki bar. But I am supposed to keep the same purchasing criteria and philosophy we use in the restaurants main bar. This has been a huge challenge because several of my drinks call for things like creme de banana, apricot brandy and liqueur, peach brandy and liqueur, orange curacao, coffee liqueur, and raspberry liqueur. These are not only things that we don't carry in the restaurant's main bar, they are things that don't really meet our ordering philosophy because it seems like most of these items--or at least the brands I know about--are poorly made artificially flavored products.

I know that I have some options with orange curacao. We use Pierre Ferrand in the restaurant, and it works well. We also have a nice raspberry liqueur so we don't have to use Chambord, and same goes for a coffee liqueur. We actually make the coffee liqueur in house. I have done some research, and I can get a really nice apricot liqueur, but it's very expensive compared to something like Dekuyper. It tastes better, and it's a well-made product, but my drink cost would be much higher if I use the good apricot liqueur, and I don't think people would pay $12 for a tiki cocktail, but I don't know. When it comes to things like creme de banana and peach liqueur, all I can find are the Dekuyper brands. Sure they are economical, but they taste so artificial. Does it not really matter in Tiki drinks? I found a beautiful peach brandy and apricot brandy from boutique distillers, but the cost of a small 375ml bottle was quite expensive, making it prohibitive to use in a cocktail. My cocktail philosophy has always been to use great ingredients, which is then reflected in the final product. Is this true with Tiki cocktails?

What do good tiki bars use? Do they make their own creme de banana, apricot brandy, peach brandy, apricot and peach liqueurs? Or do they use cheaper brands like Dekuyper? Since many of the popular tiki drinks call for coconut and banana and other fruits, does it not really matter what brand/quality of liqueur you use in the drink, because its just getting covered up with heavier ingredients or stronger flavors? Does any tiki bar spend the extra money on higher quality liqueurs and then charge more for the drink? I'm really curious. Making enough of these liqueurs ourself on a weekly basis does not seem practical for the volume we are expecting. I know some better brands are probably out there for certain liqueurs, but they are most likely much more expensive than Dekuyper. What are your thoughts on using brands like Dekuyper and Bols? Is it true what I have heard about these brands using better quality ingredients in the versions of these liqueurs sold oversees, and those of us in the United States get a lower quality version of their liqueurs?

I had a bartender tell me most of those ingredients just add sweetness to a tiki drink, and they don't really add a lot in the way of flavor. For instance, if a tiki drink calls for fresh banana to be blended in the drink and it also calls for creme de banana, can't you just use more fresh banana and something like simple syrup for the sweetness, or are you loosing banana flavor because you're not using any creme de banana? Same goes for raspberry liqueur. Why not make a raspberry syrup from fresh raspberries, and use that instead of Chambord? Again, I guess it comes down to cost, and also being able to keep up with making a raspberry syrup on a regular basis if its a drink that you sell a lot of.

I appreciate any tips from this community. Going the Dekuyper route might not only be more cost effective, but logistically speaking, it might make the most sense. Are there better brands for things like banana and apricot liqueurs, and if so, are they worth using in a tiki drink? I think we will stick with the Ferrand curacao in our Mai Tais like we do in the restaurant bar. Sure it costs more, but a Mai Tai with Ferrand compared to a Mai Tai with Dekuyper is hands down the winner for our clientele and our staff.

So what do you think? Home-made liqueurs, Dekuyper Liqueurs, or hunting down higher quality liqueur/cordial brands and increasing the costs of the drinks? Oh, and if there are higher quality brands for things like creme de banana, what makes it "higher quality"? Does it taste more like banana instead of artificially flavored? Is it actually made with banana instead of aritificial flavoring? Or does the brand simply have a better reputation than say a brand like Dekuyper? I'm always curious what makes a brand of liqueur "better" than another. With something like orange curacao, I have something to go off of. When I taste Ferrand side by side against Dekuyper, there is a huge difference in quality. The Ferrand is a well-made product, a balanced product. The Dekuyper is overly sweet, and just tastes fake.

Thank you!

[ Edited by: billynbooze 2013-02-28 14:04 ]

[ Edited by: billynbooze 2013-02-28 14:05 ]

[ Edited by: billynbooze 2013-02-28 14:09 ]