A couple questions about Kava - Tiki Drinks and Food

C cybertiki Member Fort Lauderdale, FL Joined: Jun 28, 2003 Posts: 234	C cybertiki Posted posted on Wed, Jan 28, 2004 7:34 PM Greetings; I've been fiddling around with kava lately (big shock for those who have met me), and thought since a few people here are obviously interested in this amazing South Pacific herb that has been in use for many centuries, that I'd share my own experiences. DISCLAIMER!!! I'd must start by saying that it really depends on what you want to achieve with the kava. Quite honestly, I began this as a search for an antianxiety substance, because my work is extremely stressful, and I wanted to bring myself down a couple of notches without impairing my ability to think; data security and cryptography are fairly serious businesses and I can't do much on Mai-Tai's! I'd also add that before using ANY psychoactive substance, you should inform yourself and be very clear on the benefits and risks associated with it's use. My experience is presented here as an informational resource for those who are going to experiment anyway - not an encouragement to use a substance about which very little empirical research has been conducted. Finally, remember that the effect of any substance will vary from individual to individual depending upon weight, tolerance, and stomach contents (for ingested substances). In my case you can put me down at 275, with a moderate to high tolerance for even the most potent opiates, and for the list below, everything was done on an empty stomach - deliberately to intensify the effect of the kavalactones. I started out by reading two books; "Kava, The Miracle Antianxiety Herb" by Ray Sahelian, M.D.; and "Kava, Nature's Answer to Stress, Anxiety, and Insomnia" by Hyla Cass, M.D., and Terrence McNally. Between these two books, and previous experience with psychoactive substances, I figured I had a fair handle on what to expect - huh. It appears that there are significant differences in the products that you can buy locally and on the internet, although all of the products have worked to some extent. I'm guessing that the differing concentrations of kavalactones and the somewhat foggy labeling for the products (regarding the exact concentration of active substances) are coming into play. I'm certain that the concentrations on raw products from the South Pacific vary with each batch. I'll list the few products I've tried, going from best (meaning that it provided the most effect) to worst. Bear in mind that even the worst product on the list is still superior to St. Johns Wort in terms of anxiety relief ... but then the concentrations that I've been using are fairly high. Also remember - heat destroys the kavalactones, so if you're experimenting, you have to use cool or room temperature liquids in the mix with the kava. *** A1 Grade powdered Waka ( Kava Root), powder Source: http://www.fijikava-kava.com/facts.html, produced in Fiji Concentration: Not labeled, est. 60-80mg. per tbsp. Amount Consumed: 10 tbsp. 600-800mg. Kavalactones ±. How Consumed: Blend for three minutes with 2 cups coconut water and one banana. See note for other method. Taste: Godawful - think uni sushi. A genuine barfer, but at least it stays down once you get it down. Time to first effect: 5 minutes Time to maximum effect: 13 minutes Duration of effect: 120+ minutes Comments: If this were a drink, I'd call it a Kava Hammer. Fast onset, loss of visual focus, some loss of coordination - feels like you're holding onto things and you just drop them. Nose and lips numb. REALLY relaxed, music sounds GREAT, my broken tooth stopped hurting so there is significant analgesic effect. Bottom line is that this was a bit too much for just "relaxation", and tasted too horrible to be recreational. I've since reduced the quantity to three tablespoons in one cup of coconut water or passion fruit juice with a banana, and the effect is quite nice. The flavor is still worse than the Extra Strength Gaia Liquid extract (below), but it's easier to get down at a lower concentration. Note: This stuff was awful, so I tried to get a pure extract out of the powder. I blended 1/2 cup of the powder with two cups of coconut water, 3 tbsp. olive oil, and 1 tbsp. liquid lecithin (8 minutes). The reason for using oils is because some of the active ingredients are water soluble, and others are soluble only in oil. After blending I extracted the liquid (I got rid of my centrifuge years ago and I knew I'd regret it eventually). The resulting liquid looked like coffee with cream and an oily film. Taste was sweeter and spicy like clove/allspice. Total yield was about 1.5 cups. I drank this straight, and the result was VERY good, though not nearly as strong as the original drink described above. I'm guessing that the resulting drink had something on the order of 400-500 mg. of kavalactones, but this was a lot of work just to make the drink more palatable. Personally, I'd prefer to just choke down the whole thing, pulp and all. * Gaia Herbs Kava Kava Root Extra Strength, Liquid Extract Source: Nutrition Smart (local 'GNC' type store), produced in Vanuatu Concentration: Standardized - kavalactones 25mg. per dose of 10 drops Amount Consumed: 7-8 doses (3/4 tsp.) = 200mg. kavalactones ±. How Consumed: Dilute extract in one cup coconut water or Passion Fruit Juice, stir vigorously. Taste: Moderately bad, but it grows on you. Numbs the mouth like a shot of Chloraseptic. Time to first effect: 10 minutes Time to maximum effect: 25 minutes Duration of effect: 90 minutes Comments: Mellow, but alert, clear vision, enhanced hearing, music sounds sharp, fairly relaxed. Moderate analgesic quality. Eclectic Institute, Fresh Freeze-Dried Kava "Nakamal" Fresh Kava Juice, capsules Source: Nutrition Smart (local 'GNC' type store), Manufacturer claims to use "Specific Chemotype of Vanuatu Kava" Concentration: Standardized(?) - Claims kavalactones 76.5mg.± per capsule. I'm guessing this number is high or the batch I have is degraded - these are more likely about 40-50mg. per capsule. Amount Consumed: 4-8 capsules = 200-400mg. Kavalactones ±. How Consumed: Open capsules and dissolve in one cup coconut water, or take pills directly. Taste: Moderately bad with the coconut water, moderate mouth numbing. Time to first effect: 10 minutes in coconut water 15 minutes in capsule Time to maximum effect: 30 minutes Duration of effect: 60 minutes Comments: Mellow, alert, clear vision, fairly relaxed, not long lasting. Moderate analgesic quality. * Pacifico Nature (Cosmecal), Sirop au Kava, Kava Syrup Source: http://www.cosmecal.com/indexf.htm, New Caledonia Concentration: Claims kavalactones 7mg. per gram (I believe that's roughly 100mg. per tbsp.) Amount Consumed: 1 tbsp. = 100mg. kavalactones ±. How Consumed: Straight up. Taste: Sweet - would taste nice in tea - but heat destroys kavalactones, so iced tea would be good. Time to first effect: 20 minutes Time to maximum effect: 30 minutes Duration of effect: -60 minutes Comments: Clear but minor effect - but this was a very small dosage. For full effect I'm going to try 3 tbsp. next time around and see what happens. This is the least offensive of all the products I've tried so far. The Cosmecal products have a relatively low concentration of kavalactones, so you have to consume a fair amount for maximum effect. *** Pacifico Nature (Cosmecal), Kava tablets, capsules Source: http://www.cosmecal.com/indexf.htm, New Caledonia Concentration: Claims kavalactones 17mg. per capsule Amount Consumed: 10 capsules = 170mg. kavalactones ±. How Consumed: swallowed with water Taste: None Time to first effect: 15 minutes Time to maximum effect: 20 minutes Duration of effect: 60 minutes Comments: Again, a minor effect. I'm sure the effect would be good in higher dosage, but the pills only come 50 per bottle. On the upside, and much to Cosmecal's credit, these are an antianxiety supplement, and you don't need to have the "Nakamal" (kava bar) experience every time you use it to experience the benefit of anxiety relief. The Pacifico Nature packaging is very nice, and these are probably some of the most marketable kava products out there. The labels and instructions are primarily in French (naturally) and the English translations could use a bit of work, but otherwise, very nice products. So. those are the results so far, I have several other products on the way and if anyone is interested, I'll be glad to post my results online, or to PM with anyone who wants to take this off the public forum. Cheers!

Greetings; I've been fiddling around with kava lately (big shock for those who have met me), and thought since a few people here are obviously interested in this amazing South Pacific herb that has been in use for many centuries, that I'd share my own experiences.

DISCLAIMER!!! I'd must start by saying that it really depends on what you want to achieve with the kava. Quite honestly, I began this as a search for an antianxiety substance, because my work is extremely stressful, and I wanted to bring myself down a couple of notches without impairing my ability to think; data security and cryptography are fairly serious businesses and I can't do much on Mai-Tai's! I'd also add that before using ANY psychoactive substance, you should inform yourself and be very clear on the benefits and risks associated with it's use. My experience is presented here as an informational resource for those who are going to experiment anyway - not an encouragement to use a substance about which very little empirical research has been conducted. Finally, remember that the effect of any substance will vary from individual to individual depending upon weight, tolerance, and stomach contents (for ingested substances). In my case you can put me down at 275, with a moderate to high tolerance for even the most potent opiates, and for the list below, everything was done on an empty stomach - deliberately to intensify the effect of the kavalactones.

I started out by reading two books; "Kava, The Miracle Antianxiety Herb" by Ray Sahelian, M.D.; and "Kava, Nature's Answer to Stress, Anxiety, and Insomnia" by Hyla Cass, M.D., and Terrence McNally. Between these two books, and previous experience with psychoactive substances, I figured I had a fair handle on what to expect - huh.

It appears that there are significant differences in the products that you can buy locally and on the internet, although all of the products have worked to some extent. I'm guessing that the differing concentrations of kavalactones and the somewhat foggy labeling for the products (regarding the exact concentration of active substances) are coming into play. I'm certain that the concentrations on raw products from the South Pacific vary with each batch. I'll list the few products I've tried, going from best (meaning that it provided the most effect) to worst. Bear in mind that even the worst product on the list is still superior to St. Johns Wort in terms of anxiety relief ... but then the concentrations that I've been using are fairly high. Also remember - heat destroys the kavalactones, so if you're experimenting, you have to use cool or room temperature liquids in the mix with the kava.

***** A1 Grade powdered Waka ( Kava Root), powder
Source: http://www.fijikava-kava.com/facts.html, produced in Fiji
Concentration: Not labeled, est. 60-80mg. per tbsp.
Amount Consumed: 10 tbsp. 600-800mg. Kavalactones ±.
How Consumed: Blend for three minutes with 2 cups coconut water and one banana. See note for other method.
Taste: Godawful - think uni sushi. A genuine barfer, but at least it stays down once you get it down.
Time to first effect: 5 minutes
Time to maximum effect: 13 minutes
Duration of effect: 120+ minutes
Comments: If this were a drink, I'd call it a Kava Hammer. Fast onset, loss of visual focus, some loss of coordination - feels like you're holding onto things and you just drop them. Nose and lips numb. REALLY relaxed, music sounds GREAT, my broken tooth stopped hurting so there is significant analgesic effect. Bottom line is that this was a bit too much for just "relaxation", and tasted too horrible to be recreational. I've since reduced the quantity to three tablespoons in one cup of coconut water or passion fruit juice with a banana, and the effect is quite nice. The flavor is still worse than the Extra Strength Gaia Liquid extract (below), but it's easier to get down at a lower concentration.

Note: This stuff was awful, so I tried to get a pure extract out of the powder. I blended 1/2 cup of the powder with two cups of coconut water, 3 tbsp. olive oil, and 1 tbsp. liquid lecithin (8 minutes). The reason for using oils is because some of the active ingredients are water soluble, and others are soluble only in oil. After blending I extracted the liquid (I got rid of my centrifuge years ago and I knew I'd regret it eventually). The resulting liquid looked like coffee with cream and an oily film. Taste was sweeter and spicy like clove/allspice. Total yield was about 1.5 cups. I drank this straight, and the result was VERY good, though not nearly as strong as the original drink described above. I'm guessing that the resulting drink had something on the order of 400-500 mg. of kavalactones, but this was a lot of work just to make the drink more palatable. Personally, I'd prefer to just choke down the whole thing, pulp and all.

***** Gaia Herbs Kava Kava Root Extra Strength, Liquid Extract
Source: Nutrition Smart (local 'GNC' type store), produced in Vanuatu
Concentration: Standardized - kavalactones 25mg. per dose of 10 drops
Amount Consumed: 7-8 doses (3/4 tsp.) = 200mg. kavalactones ±.
How Consumed: Dilute extract in one cup coconut water or Passion Fruit Juice, stir vigorously.
Taste: Moderately bad, but it grows on you. Numbs the mouth like a shot of Chloraseptic.
Time to first effect: 10 minutes
Time to maximum effect: 25 minutes
Duration of effect: 90 minutes
Comments: Mellow, but alert, clear vision, enhanced hearing, music sounds sharp, fairly relaxed. Moderate analgesic quality.

**** Eclectic Institute, Fresh Freeze-Dried Kava "Nakamal" Fresh Kava Juice, capsules
Source: Nutrition Smart (local 'GNC' type store), Manufacturer claims to use "Specific Chemotype of Vanuatu Kava"
Concentration: Standardized(?) - Claims kavalactones 76.5mg.± per capsule. I'm guessing this number is high or the batch I have is degraded - these are more likely about 40-50mg. per capsule.
Amount Consumed: 4-8 capsules = 200-400mg. Kavalactones ±.
How Consumed: Open capsules and dissolve in one cup coconut water, or take pills directly.
Taste: Moderately bad with the coconut water, moderate mouth numbing.
Time to first effect: 10 minutes in coconut water 15 minutes in capsule
Time to maximum effect: 30 minutes
Duration of effect: 60 minutes
Comments: Mellow, alert, clear vision, fairly relaxed, not long lasting. Moderate analgesic quality.

*** Pacifico Nature (Cosmecal), Sirop au Kava, Kava Syrup
Source: http://www.cosmecal.com/indexf.htm, New Caledonia
Concentration: Claims kavalactones 7mg. per gram (I believe that's roughly 100mg. per tbsp.)
Amount Consumed: 1 tbsp. = 100mg. kavalactones ±.
How Consumed: Straight up.
Taste: Sweet - would taste nice in tea - but heat destroys kavalactones, so iced tea would be good.
Time to first effect: 20 minutes
Time to maximum effect: 30 minutes
Duration of effect: -60 minutes
Comments: Clear but minor effect - but this was a very small dosage. For full effect I'm going to try 3 tbsp. next time around and see what happens. This is the least offensive of all the products I've tried so far. The Cosmecal products have a relatively low concentration of kavalactones, so you have to consume a fair amount for maximum effect.

*** Pacifico Nature (Cosmecal), Kava tablets, capsules
Source: http://www.cosmecal.com/indexf.htm, New Caledonia
Concentration: Claims kavalactones 17mg. per capsule
Amount Consumed: 10 capsules = 170mg. kavalactones ±.
How Consumed: swallowed with water
Taste: None
Time to first effect: 15 minutes
Time to maximum effect: 20 minutes
Duration of effect: 60 minutes
Comments: Again, a minor effect. I'm sure the effect would be good in higher dosage, but the pills only come 50 per bottle. On the upside, and much to Cosmecal's credit, these are an antianxiety supplement, and you don't need to have the "Nakamal" (kava bar) experience every time you use it to experience the benefit of anxiety relief. The Pacifico Nature packaging is very nice, and these are probably some of the most marketable kava products out there. The labels and instructions are primarily in French (naturally) and the English translations could use a bit of work, but otherwise, very nice products.

So. those are the results so far, I have several other products on the way and if anyone is interested, I'll be glad to post my results online, or to PM with anyone who wants to take this off the public forum.

Cheers!

Post #73243 by cybertiki on Wed, Jan 28, 2004 7:34 PM