USA Today's 10 Best Tiki Bars Around the USA - General Tiki

RC Ragbag Comics Member The shores of Lake Michigan Joined: Feb 24, 2009 Posts: 212	RC Ragbag Comics Posted posted on Thu, Dec 4, 2014 3:39 PM On 2014-12-02 11:00, kkocka wrote: On 2014-11-30 22:47, Ragbag Comics wrote: I will drive hours for atmosphere... nice drinks just require having the proper ingredients and knowing how to mix them. The problem is, your average run-of-the-mill bar doesn't do that. Even those with a so called "cocktail menu" will list their mai tai with pineapple and grenadine. Yer definitely right about that. I think the primary issue is that bartenders in the 70's and 80's got lazy (something the Bum has worked so hard to turn around with his books, shining a light on good drinks...) and a drink like the Mai Tai or the Zombie requires enough precision and different (expensive) ingredients that can't really be used in a wide variety of drinks, that the craft of making proper tropicals devolved much more quickly than other classic cocktails, like the Manhattan (3 ingredients) or a martini (2 ingredients.) Bartending became opening a Miller Lite, and here we are, clawing our way back up from the domestic beer gutter. It makes sense... the faster you can make drinks, the more you can churn out, the faster you can sell somebody another one. Before long... voila: TGI Friday's pre-mixed Mudslides... I went through bartending school shortly after college to help make extra scratch, and the "tropical" section was laughable. They actually TEACH people to make a Mai Tai with pineapple juice and grenadine... a god damned travesty. With this, I should say, I've had good friends over the years who are professional bartenders at working-class bars who've asked me if there's some way to "riff" the taste of a classic Mai Tai or a Don's Zombie with standard ingredients found in any bar... it just can't be done, unfortunately. And talking most bar owners into stocking Orgeat, Lemonhart 151, or even fresh fruit is pretty much a losing proposition in most circumstances. I, too, find this totally depressing. But the thought process is changing... and while I'm way more hyped on finding an old, classic Tiki bar with the atmospheric elements in place and resigning myself drinking something basic and hard to screw up like an Old Fashioned than I am to go to a more sterile craft cocktail bar and get a perfectly crafted Don's Zombie... that's just my personal preference. If I wasn't able to make a proper Mai Tai at home, I'd probably be more bummed out about it. I think a larger, even more insane (to me) issue in most bars is you can't even get a nice rum neat these days, even in some purported "craft" bars... the best stuff a bar typically has is usually Kraken or something, which is fine, but I ain't especially wanting to drink it on its own any time soon. Rum in most bars... Bacardi, Malibu (BLECH!), Captain Morgan (MORE BLECH!), and (if you're lucky) some basic Cruzan or Meyers's. That's about it. The devolution of RUM, even moreso than cocktails is pretty pathetic. But it's changing... there are a few just run of the mill base-level bars here in Chicago you can get El Dorado, at least, and Smith & Cross and some others at more craft-y places. Whiskey turned it around... most bars now, you're not limited to Jim and Jack; you can usually get a nice stiff Bulleit or Knob Creek. This kinda painfully slow change in thinking in the bar world (that whiskey can be a premium spirit... and now, hopefully, rum, too) I think is due, almost entirely, in the craft cocktail explosion. Now even in small towns, you can at least get a premium bourbon, decent Gin, and maybe even a nice single malt scotch. So there's hope. And I hope to illustrate that I'm not trying to say craft cocktails or craft cocktail bars are bad... they're not, by a long shot. They're doing good work... anything that brings more knowledge about GOOD spirits to the public is a positive change, and increases the chance we can pull some people out of the "captain and coke" or "vodka red bull" tailspin. And I should clarify, I don't mean, specifically, to crap on Three Dots - it's an excellent craft cocktail bar. Their drinks are stellar, and if you go when they open or on an off night, you'll get a killer soundtrack (I'm a bit of a nerd in this area, so I've been stoked to hear obscure stuff I love like Takeshi Terauchi & the Bunnies, Los Saicos, and Preston Epps come on while we've been there) and a nice, chill atmosphere. Their barstaff is bar-none... they are ace at what they do. I understand they have had to walk a very careful line... they're in a mega-douche trendy neighborhood that is also chock-a-block with tourists. I get why they have to have the DJ's and crappy dance music on weekends and why it's crowded. I also get why they couldn't exactly go full-bore Mai Kai on the place, decor-wise. It's very pleasant when it's very pleasant, you just aren't ever really sure if you're gonna get Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde, which is unfortunate. Just wanted to clarify that... we were at Three Dots just a little while ago and had a spectacular time. But it was a slow night. That being said (and speaking to the larger discussion here) I, personally, consider it a very nice cocktail bar more than a proper Tiki bar, which is why I find it kinda crazy it's on every "top Tiki bar" list I've seen since pretty much the day they opened. To me, "Tiki" is more of a a fully-rounded, all-senses-engaged aesthetic than just drinks, and atmosphere and aesthetic is something that seems to be missing in a lot of new places (Tiki or not), as we've been discussing. And also as we've been discussing, it's all about personal preference for where you spend your money. At the end of the day, these are businesses... they gotta do what they gotta do to get people in, engaged, and keep the cash flowing. I would argue, that a place like Hala Kahiki that's aesthetically a Tiki wonderland couldn't even really HAVE a premium craft cocktail program. At base level, it's too expensive. They have a huge, dedicated local following, and it's in a very blue collar neighborhood. Most people are not going to consistently spend $12 or $15 per drink there, especially not with any regularity. Even $10 is a stretch... most of their drinks are around $6 or $7. Try making a proper craft tiki drink for $6 and still turn a profit. It can't be done (at least not in Chicago.) So, with the history and the experience of being there, I give them a pass. And if it's cheaper to use a pre-mix than squeeze limes, so be it. I'll play along... I'm just passing through. With luck, HK will still be making tropical drinks long after I'm gone, just as they did years before I was alive. And Tikiskip: to your point about "pay to play" politics with this stuff, you are 100% correct and really hit the nail on the head with something that's bothered me about a lot of these lists - there's a whole lotta "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" that goes on in the press world, especially these days. And I can't speak to some of the other repeat list-ers (while both classic-era US Trader Vic's sit on the sidelines), but Three Dots is owned by Lettuce Entertain You, which is an absolutely MASSIVE hospitality group in Chicago. So they're promoting their businesses at a corporate level that is out of reach of most small business owners (like the Fongs at Chef Shangri-La, or the Sacharski's at Hala Kahiki) That doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else... but there's certainly a financial, palm-greasing advantage there. So the lesson, perhaps, is that like most things in America, the more money involved, the "better" something is perceived as being. To me, when you factor out the dollars being spent to oil the machine, no place "better" or "worse..." it's all subjective, which, again, is why these lists are kinda silly. --Pete

On 2014-12-02 11:00, kkocka wrote:

On 2014-11-30 22:47, Ragbag Comics wrote:
I will drive hours for atmosphere... nice drinks just require having the proper ingredients and knowing how to mix them.

The problem is, your average run-of-the-mill bar doesn't do that. Even those with a so called "cocktail menu" will list their mai tai with pineapple and grenadine.

Yer definitely right about that.

I think the primary issue is that bartenders in the 70's and 80's got lazy (something the Bum has worked so hard to turn around with his books, shining a light on good drinks...) and a drink like the Mai Tai or the Zombie requires enough precision and different (expensive) ingredients that can't really be used in a wide variety of drinks, that the craft of making proper tropicals devolved much more quickly than other classic cocktails, like the Manhattan (3 ingredients) or a martini (2 ingredients.) Bartending became opening a Miller Lite, and here we are, clawing our way back up from the domestic beer gutter. It makes sense... the faster you can make drinks, the more you can churn out, the faster you can sell somebody another one. Before long... voila: TGI Friday's pre-mixed Mudslides...

I went through bartending school shortly after college to help make extra scratch, and the "tropical" section was laughable. They actually TEACH people to make a Mai Tai with pineapple juice and grenadine... a god damned travesty. With this, I should say, I've had good friends over the years who are professional bartenders at working-class bars who've asked me if there's some way to "riff" the taste of a classic Mai Tai or a Don's Zombie with standard ingredients found in any bar...
it just can't be done, unfortunately. And talking most bar owners into stocking Orgeat, Lemonhart 151, or even fresh fruit is pretty much a losing proposition in most circumstances.

I, too, find this totally depressing. But the thought process is changing... and while I'm way more hyped on finding an old, classic Tiki bar with the atmospheric elements in place and resigning myself drinking something basic and hard to screw up like an Old Fashioned than I am to go to a more sterile craft cocktail bar and get a perfectly crafted Don's Zombie... that's just my personal preference. If I wasn't able to make a proper Mai Tai at home, I'd probably be more bummed out about it.

I think a larger, even more insane (to me) issue in most bars is you can't even get a nice rum neat these days, even in some purported "craft" bars... the best stuff a bar typically has is usually Kraken or something, which is fine, but I ain't especially wanting to drink it on its own any time soon. Rum in most bars... Bacardi, Malibu (BLECH!), Captain Morgan (MORE BLECH!), and (if you're lucky) some basic Cruzan or Meyers's. That's about it. The devolution of RUM, even moreso than cocktails is pretty pathetic. But it's changing... there are a few just run of the mill base-level bars here in Chicago you can get El Dorado, at least, and Smith & Cross and some others at more craft-y places.

Whiskey turned it around... most bars now, you're not limited to Jim and Jack; you can usually get a nice stiff Bulleit or Knob Creek. This kinda painfully slow change in thinking in the bar world (that whiskey can be a premium spirit... and now, hopefully, rum, too) I think is due, almost entirely, in the craft cocktail explosion. Now even in small towns, you can at least get a premium bourbon, decent Gin, and maybe even a nice single malt scotch.

So there's hope. And I hope to illustrate that I'm not trying to say craft cocktails or craft cocktail bars are bad... they're not, by a long shot. They're doing good work... anything that brings more knowledge about GOOD spirits to the public is a positive change, and increases the chance we can pull some people out of the "captain and coke" or "vodka red bull" tailspin.

And I should clarify, I don't mean, specifically, to crap on Three Dots - it's an excellent craft cocktail bar. Their drinks are stellar, and if you go when they open or on an off night, you'll get a killer soundtrack (I'm a bit of a nerd in this area, so I've been stoked to hear obscure stuff I love like Takeshi Terauchi & the Bunnies, Los Saicos, and Preston Epps come on while we've been there) and a nice, chill atmosphere. Their barstaff is bar-none... they are ace at what they do. I understand they have had to walk a very careful line... they're in a mega-douche trendy neighborhood that is also chock-a-block with tourists. I get why they have to have the DJ's and crappy dance music on weekends and why it's crowded. I also get why they couldn't exactly go full-bore Mai Kai on the place, decor-wise. It's very pleasant when it's very pleasant, you just aren't ever really sure if you're gonna get Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde, which is unfortunate.

Just wanted to clarify that... we were at Three Dots just a little while ago and had a spectacular time. But it was a slow night. That being said (and speaking to the larger discussion here) I, personally, consider it a very nice cocktail bar more than a proper Tiki bar, which is why I find it kinda crazy it's on every "top Tiki bar" list I've seen since pretty much the day they opened. To me, "Tiki" is more of a a fully-rounded, all-senses-engaged aesthetic than just drinks, and atmosphere and aesthetic is something that seems to be missing in a lot of new places (Tiki or not), as we've been discussing. And also as we've been discussing, it's all about personal preference for where you spend your money. At the end of the day, these are businesses... they gotta do what they gotta do to get people in, engaged, and keep the cash flowing. I would argue, that a place like Hala Kahiki that's aesthetically a Tiki wonderland couldn't even really HAVE a premium craft cocktail program. At base level, it's too expensive. They have a huge, dedicated local following, and it's in a very blue collar neighborhood. Most people are not going to consistently spend $12 or $15 per drink there, especially not with any regularity. Even $10 is a stretch... most of their drinks are around $6 or $7. Try making a proper craft tiki drink for $6 and still turn a profit. It can't be done (at least not in Chicago.) So, with the history and the experience of being there, I give them a pass. And if it's cheaper to use a pre-mix than squeeze limes, so be it. I'll play along... I'm just passing through. With luck, HK will still be making tropical drinks long after I'm gone, just as they did years before I was alive.

And Tikiskip: to your point about "pay to play" politics with this stuff, you are 100% correct and really hit the nail on the head with something that's bothered me about a lot of these lists - there's a whole lotta "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" that goes on in the press world, especially these days. And I can't speak to some of the other repeat list-ers (while both classic-era US Trader Vic's sit on the sidelines), but Three Dots is owned by Lettuce Entertain You, which is an absolutely MASSIVE hospitality group in Chicago. So they're promoting their businesses at a corporate level that is out of reach of most small business owners (like the Fongs at Chef Shangri-La, or the Sacharski's at Hala Kahiki) That doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else... but there's certainly a financial, palm-greasing advantage there.

So the lesson, perhaps, is that like most things in America, the more money involved, the "better" something is perceived as being.

To me, when you factor out the dollars being spent to oil the machine, no place "better" or "worse..." it's all subjective, which, again, is why these lists are kinda silly.

--Pete

Post #732588 by Ragbag Comics on Thu, Dec 4, 2014 3:39 PM