Key Limes

Several threads have talked about key limes and where to find them. Here in the Northwest, Fred Meyer stores carry both fresh keys and bottled key lime juice. A 1 lb. bag of keys (from Mexico) is under $2. (I squeezed about 5 ounces of juice out of that.) The limes are not quite as big as ping pong balls, so it takes a little while to juice 'em! (Are all key limes that small?)

A 16 oz. bottle of "Nellie & Joe's Famous Key West Lime Juice" is under $3. (A little sodium benzoate for preservative, otherwise all juice.)

I found keys to be more "tangy" than regular limes. I made a couple of daquiris to compare (2 oz white rum/1 oz lime/1-2 oz sugar syrup). I preferred the tangier key lime version, but I won't go out of my way to use keys unless a recipe calls for it.

Fred Meyer's owned by Kroger, so it's possible you can get keys at your local Kroger-owned store.

:drink:

Good work...well done, top marks to you.

Limes are funny things, and like most citrus, especially seedless ones, they have been cross grafted for so many generations the fruit of any citrus (except lemon) is seldom what would sprout from a seed from that fruit.

Of seedless limes for example the seed from 10,000 limes sprouted (seedless by USDA Definition is having less than 7 seeds) would yield less than a dozen lime bearing plants...they would moslty be lemon, oranges, and other various citrus plants...

Oranges as we know them have only existed a short time. Until very recently they were so sour they were almost inedible and more like limes than what we are use to now. They were collected for smell, and to use in cleaning.

There is a area in China where there is a mutated orange variety which tastes like Cream. It's one of the rarest and most expencive fruit on earth. Converlsy if cattle get into an orange field, they will gorge, and thier milk will need to be thrown away because it tastes like orange.

Interesting Gigantalope. I was actually wondering the other evening, as I was trying to choke my way through a Dr Funk (recipe from Intoxica!), if the limes that we buy today are relatively the same as they were 50-60 years ago when all of these classic tiki drinks were developed.

I find many of the lime juice based drinks in Intoxica! and the Grog Log to be fairly undrinkable. The Dr Funk tastes like lime juice with a splash of Pernod. I couldn't even taste the rum! Others have mentioned that they cut the amount of lime juice called for in half and it tastes much better.

So...I was wondering if perhaps the limes of today are much stronger than those Vic and Don and the boys used?

well for sure if you're using key lime juice, cut it in at least half. that's some strong stuff my friends...

THe limes are not the same...although they can be different than each other...and will often be sweeter on the sother part of a tree.

Here's the part I find a crushing blow...for 5000 years we've gone from gatherers to having supermarkerts (where we are sort of gatherers again) but in that time we now only have about 5% of the fruits that once existed available...the rest only exist in seed banks, mostly in the Russia and a smaller one in Colorado.

The variances are almost exclusivly varieties of apples or pears which became unpopular for one reason or another...but the big fear is that as we get further and furth tied to these hybreds a pest or scourge could be a massive global problem... like the potato famine...over the entire planet.

The fruit market is driven by money, and the ones that sell are the ones that look like postcard fruit. Even worse is that SEEDLESS fruit sells far more than varieties with superior taste.

Growers gotta grow what Moms will buy...it's wierd to see phtos of acres of sawed down trees going in for new grafts on the root stock or just new fruit...Here in Ca, they mostly plant houses where Groves were...sometimes grapes in recent years...

I typically buy the fruit that looks like it's been in a fenderbender, and has seeds. Try it, and see.

Is it just me, or do you guys think limes are getting expensive? 2 (one place 1) for a dollar in Carmel, CA. Though this will never stop me from my Grog Quests.

!!!
Unga Bunga that is expensive! Yikes. The last time I bought limes (which was yesterday) they were five for a dollar. That was here in Redondo Beach at a Wholefoods supermarket. These aren't Key Limes, just the "regular" kind.

Sabu says he gets an even better deal. He buys 'em by the pound from a small local market. I don't recall the price he quoted.

Maybe Sabu can chime in.

Johnny, is this how you roll the limes before juicing 'em? :lol:

Where are all our Florida members on this one?
I've heard from many Floridians that "real" Key limes are only one certain species grown on any of the Florida Key islands. They are supposed to be very small, and unless expertly picked at the perfect time, they are exceptionally sour. Their coloring can be deceptive, as they are ideal when not totally green yet.
The best thing that you can smuggle back into California in your car is a small Key Lime tree, started by someone with a thriving garden. My relatives in Burbank have one that is magnificent (the previously mentioned contraband that crossed state lines in a dog carrier). There is some sort of lime e.s.p. you need to select the right ones, but imagine all the fun you'll have tasting your experiments!

You can't tell any citrus fruit being ripe by it's color...some oranges even turn orange before they are ripe and turn yellowy green when they are perfect.

Also, as they have no starch in them, they won't ripen after they are picked...they may change color but the taste won't change for the better...unlike Aligator Pears who if you sick in a paper sack get nice.

Funny how oranges as fruit are called the same as the color in most languges, but Limes are not "greens", and lemons are not "yellos"

In fact...it's a funny thing that Citrus itself was named because of an accident. (Kinda like America being named after a map maker who claimed to discover it but was never here)

I've been doing some googling on the subject of limes. This is probably info that isn't new to Gigantalope but it was new to me.

Apparently, limes are yellow when they're ripe, and a little sweeter than when they're green. This holds true for both Persian (Tahitian) limes and Key limes. The tradition of picking them green (and under ripe) is because a green lime has a longer shelf life before going rotten versus a ripe lime. I also read that the US and Europe prefer the green limes but other parts of the world prefer the ripe yellow lime. I'd love to try some ripe limes but that might be difficult as lime growers pick them green and as Giga pointed out, they don't continue to ripen after being picked. Since I live in Florida maybe I can find someone with a lime tree in their backyard.

Gigantalope: regarding your comments on all of the past plethora of citrus species being genetically manipulated into a few marketable strains...what about all of these citrus trees that are growing in people's back yards? I know many people who have citrus trees (usually grapefruit and orange) that have wide variations from tree to tree. This grapefruit tree is lighter and tarter, this one is pinker and sweeter, this orange tree has fruit with navels, this one not, this one has tangelo etc. Maybe the evolution of citrus is still taking place in the back yards of Florida and California and points south??

I can't be sure about all citrus...lemon and lime might have exsisted somplace, but Grapefruit did not. Oranges most likely came from China or a landmass sout of there now underwater. This is assuemd by the amount of natural hybreds and specialized pests specific to Citrus.(The exception to this is the Osage Orange, Lewis and Clarks first discoverd new plant, naitive to Kansas...not a tru orange)

The only singe crop which had a bigger impact on modern society than the orange was the Rubber Plant.

The history of both is pretty fascinating, especially with the combination of the industrial revolution...The Dehydrating Juce Freezer made no crop that could be picked go bad...

It's thought that the "Golden Apple" which was shot off the head of a boy in Switzerland was an Orange, later leading to the tale of William Tell.

I'm rambling like a jackass...sorry.
I'ts all about Marmalade tho...that's my view.

Citrus got it's name (genus name) from a confusion between the large, rough skinned Citron, which was the original lemon, and the greenish yellow cones of the Cedars of Lebanon, which actually look very similar.

Also the Citron trees, and the Cedar trees were both evergreen, about the same size and similar enough in appearance and foilage that further confusion was inevitable. The Greeks called the Citron "Kedromelon" or Cedar Apple, the Romans turned this into Malum Citrump, and applied this term, often shortening it's meaning citreum, to all varieties of citrus.

In the second century, the writer Apuleius, objected. He had been born in Africa, and knew a cedar cone from an lemon or orange, but in the eighteenth century the Swedish botanist Carolus Linnaeus, made the name "Citrus" official for the genus. So now Lemons, Limes, Citrons, Oranges, Grapefruit, and Tangerines are all grouped under the incorrect name that means Cedar.

Kono, in reading your question, which I failed to answer, yes there are hundreds of varieties of fruit which seem the same.

Grapfruit for example...the example you gave, they have subtly different properties. Lemons sre more pronounced as the two most common varieties (here in Ca.) are Eureka (typical common lemon) and Meyers. The meyers is kinda funny looking, thick skinned, and can be sweet to the point of not seeming like a lemon.

Meyers seem like they were invented to be placed next to a Vodka tree...

Oranges varieties are more different than each other...The Navel Orange was a natural hybred found in Brazil by some American Missionaries. It's also called the Washington Orange because for a while you had to write to Washington DC to get them.

The thing that makes Oranges even more curious is that thier fruit comes ripe at much different times of year depending on the variety.

A large old lemon tree however can have fruit on it all year...nice for the drinker, bad for the farmer.

Sorry...shit, I've done it again.

I just go out and pick them from my keylime tree. Sorry guys........

Should I paint my Citroen yellow or green?
:)
Hiltiki: I am key lime green with jealousy!

On 2004-10-22 08:25, Gigantalope wrote:
The meyers is kinda funny looking, thick skinned, and can be sweet to the point of not seeming like a lemon.

Meyers seem like they were invented to be placed next to a Vodka tree...

I'd like to try some of those Meyers lemons.

I've spent most of my life avoiding citrus (seriously, people here are always trying to give you citrus from their back yards but I always tell them "I don't eat citrus") and now I feel like devoting my life to exploring the complexities of the citrus world! Crazy. I had one guy offer me some kind of giant Chinese grapefruit, big as a basketball he told me. I accepted his offer but he never came through.

Good call Kono, there's more crap than good overall, and those Grapfruit you were offered taste like paper recycle bin.

On the other hand, fresh grapefruit juice has a vitality about it that's hard to put into words.

The thing about citrus is that it's so different than other types of fruit...It's kind of why I have the Marmalade obsession...actually I enjoy complex foods which have tastes of wildy different things at once. Having a piece of very Dark Chocolate, letting that sit in your craw for a few minutes to warm...then sipping a Raspberry Lambic is like that. Philharmonic in it's range of sweet to sour.

The Orange was thought to have evolved in China, India was the first major stop in the travel of our citrus, and the first mention of Oranges in Sanskrit literature is found in a medical book called the Charkara-Samhita, which was compiled approximately two thousand years ago. The Hindus called an orange a Naranga, the first syllable of which was a prefix meaning fragrance. This became the Persian meaning Naranj, a word the Muslims carried through the Mediterranean. In Byzanttium, an orange was a "Nerantzion". This in Neo-Latin, became variously styled as "Arangium","Arantium", and "Aurantium" thus eventually producing the "Naraanja" in Spain, "Laranja" in Portugal, "Arancia" in Italy, and "Orange" in France.

Meanwhile, the Roman city of Arausio, in the south of France had become in the provencal language, "Aurenja"- a name almost identical in sound and spelling to "auranja" the Provencal word for Orange. Gradually the names of the city and the fruit evolved on the provencal tongue to "Orenge", and then to "Orange"

In the early sixteenth century, Philbert of Orange, prince of the city, was awarded a good part of the Netherlands for his political and military skulduggery to the Holy Roman Emperor, Chareles V. The prince had no immediate heir, and his possessions and title were eventually passed on to a German nephew, this was William of Nassau, Prince of Orange, who later founded the Dutch Republic and the House of Orange. In honor of William's descendants, Dutch explorers named the Orange River in South Africa, and Cape Orange in northern Brazil. Fort Orange was the name of a Dutch settlement that eventually developed into Albany New York.
After a Protestant prince of the House of Orange had served as King William III of England, a movement known as Orangism was founded by Irish Protestants, who established "The Orange Society" and called their part of Ireland, "The Orange".
Commemorating their causes on the landscape of the New World, emigrant Orangemen gave the name "Orange" to towns and cities and bodies of water from Lake Orange, Maine, to Orangeburg, South Carolina. Orangemen changed the name of Newark Mountain, New Jersey, to Orange Dale, which eventually became simply Orange, New Jersey. It's satellite towns of West Orange, South Orange, and East Orange- all as the result of a similarity of sound between the name of a transalpine Roman city, and a citrus fruit incorrectly named.

Orange Couny Ca however was named after the fruit crop that it was famous for when it broke off from LA county.

Rusty Key, who many of you met at the Hukilau, is a citrus farmer.

Rusty even has persimmons growing. Other rare fruits, as well.

I've learned quite a bit from him and all of the many people I collect and even, yes, "borrow" oranges and grapefruits and limes and lemons from every season.

NAFTA left many abandoned smaller groves scattered all over the place and when I see a grove like that I feel I'm rescuing the fruit. But criminal apologetics aside, I'm not a big fan of key limes. I think they taste like a cross between a sour orange and a lime. But they're pretty good with a sweeter drink that just needs a hint of lime rather than a lime focus. My favorite drink is the Demerara Dry Float, btw, and it is most sour. I'm a lime, lemon freak.

Ona Koka has a lime tree in his in-laws' yard that frequently provides us 4 or 5 dozen for libations and they are fantastic.
They are the normal variety.

Here's a trick I learned from a chef friend of mine who won a lot of cooking awards in Thailand, a lime capital - when you're selecting limes or lemons - look for the smoothest skin possible.

Mmmmm, boy I'm thirsty now.
You people need to shut up. :wink:

I use Nellie's Key Lime Juice for all my cocktails. Fresh lime juice is a pain and bottled is awful otherwise. Plus, the Mai Kai uses Key Lime juice exclusively, so, hey.

I also cut all Grog Log and Intoxica recipe lime measures in half or more. Lemon seems a little closer to correct, but I cut anything that calls for large amounts down. 1 1/2 ounces of lemon juice? Come on!

Maybe lime juice is different in California, but if you make the Grog Log recipes by the book here in East TN, all you taste is lime.

Here is an article on the Mai Kai's drinks and Key Limes.

On 2004-10-21 12:09, Hakalugi wrote:
!!!
Unga Bunga that is expensive! Yikes. The last time I bought limes (which was yesterday) they were five for a dollar. That was here in Redondo Beach at a Wholefoods supermarket. These aren't Key Limes, just the "regular" kind.

Sabu says he gets an even better deal. He buys 'em by the pound from a small local market. I don't recall the price he quoted.

Maybe Sabu can chime in.

Well, tonight I went again to the local Mexican supermarket. We have many in this neighborhood of Carson. This one is called Payless Foods, and it is on Avalon Blvd, near Sepulveda.

They had juicy, Mexican Limes - 5 lbs for a dollar, and Key Limes - 2 lbs for a dollar. (Thank God for the Mexican markets!) I bought both and spent the evening doing taste tests.

I made the classic Trader Vic's Mai Tai from the Trader Vic's Bartender's Guide. I made two Mai Tais side by side. Both with equal amounts (3/4 oz) of lime juice. This came out to one (1) large Mexican Lime, and three (3) key limes. I left one half a lime husk in the Mexican Lime Mai Tai, and two half-lime husks in the Key Lime Mai Tai. Then I drank, cleansing my palate with chicken pot-pie between each drink.

The Mexican Lime Mai Tai, which I am most familiar with, lets a lot of the flavor of the rums come through. Maybe even too much at times. It's a tricky balance. It's a mild lime. Usually I squeeze the whole lime into the Mai Tai. But since I measured 3/4 oz of juice this time, I didn't use all the juice in the lime. If I had, I would have liked it better.

The Key Lime Mai Tai was definitely more bitter. More bitter than sour. but wow! what a fragrance. Unfortunately, you couldn't really taste the rums. For my wife, this is a good thing, but to me, the lime masked the rum a little too much.

For the third drink, I dropped the number of Key Limes to two (2) or approx. 1/2 oz. That was better! For the fourth drink, I upped the quality of the rums, but kept the two Key Limes. I also upped the Orgeat to 1/2 oz instead of 1/4 oz. (I like it that way, personally). With 2 Key Limes, the rum shines through fantastically, yet the heady fragrance of the Key Limes is very apparant. This is a slightly more bitter drink, definitely. But given a choice, I would prefer it over the Mexican Lime Mai Tai. It's an even more complex drink, in my opinion. I really like the aroma of the Key Limes.

The Mexican Limes were seedless, unlike the Key Limes. I didn't worry about straining out the seeds - just let them sink to the bottom of the glass and made a point not to drink them (not too hard).

I would continue the taste test, but I am now blind-stinking drunk and barely able to type. Any sacrifice to increase the knowledge of TC, though, is worth it. (I have to work tomorrow, don't I.)

Sabu.

[ Edited by: Sabu The Coconut Boy on 2004-11-12 01:06 ]

On 2004-11-11 22:35, Sabu The Coconut Boy wrote:
Then I drank, cleansing my palate with chicken pot-pie between each drink.

:lol: Those silly wine connoisseurs and their cheeses. Chicken pot pie is the official palate cleanser for mai tai enthusiasts!

Thanks for your selfless research. I am currently enjoying a mai tai made with the help of your studies. .5oz key lime juice, .5oz orange curacao, .25oz rock candy syrup, .25oz orgeat (Torlani's is my current fave, has a stronger flavor IMO), 1oz Goslings and 1oz Cruzan Single Barrel. Excellent drink! :drink:

I'm going to use this basic recipe (.5oz key lime instead of .75oz mexican lime) and sub different rum combos. I saw some Coruba the other day and when I get back that way I will definitely pick some up.

We also get our limes from a local Mexican market (fresh tortillas too!). Not as good a deal as Sabu gets. Last month they were 2 lbs for a dollar (about 15-18 limes). Whole Foods Market has bottled organic lime juice with no additives. Tastes exactly like it should and is very convenient if you don't want to run out for fresh limes. Follow the recipe on the back of the Nellie & Joe's bottle for a killer Key Lime pie.