Having Kids is for people with Unsatisfying Careers?

TG - I can respect your views and you stated them eloquently but your initial post came off sounding a little self-righteous and that prompted my mean-spirited remarks. I hate to use the old standby, "We can agree to disagree," but it sizes it all up pretty succinctly.

S'all good son! I take no offense at anything you wrote. I understand the tone and intention of your post perfectly well. Actually if there was anyhting mean spirited in it, I didn't catch it.

Oh good, then I didn't come off sounding as much like an asshole as I feared! :)

The text was kind to ya this time. Ahhh the wonders of text communication and the merry hijinks that can ensue...

Oh, I did just think that the sappiness of my statements about my wife could be used as a yardstick to how some of us feel when people go off the deep end about their kids.

That said, I think we'd all agree that putting up with sappy statements about wives and children is much easier on the mind than a bawling spoiled child in a public setting.

Don't even get me started on kids in airplanes!

On 2005-07-26 17:21, Jungle Trader wrote:
Does Mr. Smiley have an unsatisfying career?

the auto parts business is quite fulfilling, thank you!
I keep trying for kids, but they always scream and run away from me in the park when I try to grab 'em!!!

Kidding!

You should definately love both...

On 2005-07-29 06:47, tikifish wrote:
...But because we are human we like to add all sorts of interesing altruistic notions to this basic biological fact to try and fool ourselves that we are not just mammals like the rest of them!

Eee-ee-ee

Off to eat a banana

tikifish likes bananas

Unless you have children (that you love), you really can have no opinion as to whether or not children are a good or bad thing.

Just as a man cannot completely say "being a man is better tha n being a woman", someone who has never had children of their own cannot really say "having no children is better that having them". You really do not know.

You may try to infer something like, "oh, these brats were screaming in the restaurant, and I never want to have kids", or you may rationalize that love for children is some sort of biological instinct, but what you don't experience is the joy and wonder and love when they respond to you in day to day life.

What stikes down the 'biological' argument for procreation is this, I'd give my life if it were to save my children. One needs only to look at the holocaust for example.

Fit that into your into your childless life of driving to expensive restaurants in you BMW...

Mid Life Crisis.

On 2005-07-31 19:50, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Fit that into your into your childless life of driving to expensive restaurants in you BMW...

HAH!!! Like I have enough money for one!

And I trust my instincts on the children thing.

I love my kids and would give my life for them.

But I would not marry them.

If the talk show host was suggesting that people who have unsatifying careers should have kids because that will make them happy, then I must take issue with that statement. People should have kids if having children is something that will make them happy. There are plenty of people who have satisfying careers who also have children. And I'm sure that there are plenty of people who have crappy careers that have absoutely no desire to have kids. For the latter, having kids is not going to be a panacea for them.

Personally, I couldn't imagine not having children. My wife and I had our first child four months ago and we couldn't be happier. We tried for almost a year to have her. I think part of the reason why I wanted kids so much is becuase I come from a very close-knit family and I see how much myself and my brother and sister mean to my parents and how much a part of their lives we are, and how fulfilling their lives are with us in them -- especially now that they are in their 70s. My mom told me that back when she was working as a fashion illustrator (40 years ago at the time when my older brother was born) she remembered how some of the older "career women" told her that they regretted the fact that they never had families and that they had chosen to devote themselves to their careers. I know that my mom is very happy with the decision she made to give up her very successful career to have us.

Having said that, I understand that having kids is not for everyone and I really respect people like TikiGardner who recognize this and choose not to have children. I must say that I think it is extremely UNselfish of people who really don't want to have kids... not to have them. I think that the people who ARE selfish are the ones who care most about their careers, but still have kids anyway because think they its something that they should do. A lot of the kids who grew up in my neigborhood had parents that fell into this category. They were essentially raised by nannys and babysitters and, to this day, are not close to their parents at all.

The bottom line is that people should do what makes them happy. If having a life without kids is what makes them happy, then that's great. Personally, I couldn't imagine not having kids, but I'm sure there are plenty of people that can't picture themselves having them. There's nothing wrong with either decision.

I am 47 without children, and plan to keep it that way (thank goodness my wahine agrees), but am not particularly fulfilled by my job either, but I live a very happy and full life.My job does not define me but, fortunately, provides a pretty comfortable living which allows me to pursue other interests and hobbies like tiki and music (and tiki music). I love my neices to death, however, and love spending time with them being Crazy Uncle Ray.

You do not have children in order to fill a hole in your life, nor do you automatically have children because society dictates that as the natural course of events. Having children should be a concious decision that is made because you genuinely want to have the children and the responsibility that goes with it.

HERE HERE!!!

"... it's not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but somehow I managed to fit in eight hours of TV a day...."
homer simpson

And boy was I wrong about everything.

On 2005-12-06 01:51, TikiGardener wrote:
And boy was I wrong about everything.

OK, please 'splain!

On 2005-12-06 07:59, Geeky Tiki wrote:

On 2005-12-06 01:51, TikiGardener wrote:
And boy was I wrong about everything.

OK, please 'splain!

I get it.....

On 2005-07-28 22:30, TikiGardener wrote:

NOT HAVING KIDS IS GREAT!

Ohhhh, the irony!

Seriously, congrats on the reunion. 'Nuff said.

Reading through the thread and seeing what (I assume) happened to TG, I think the issue of having kids or not is similar to Morphius offering Neo the red or blue pill. You choose the blue pill, and you'll live the rest of your life how it is, never knowing the "joys" of having children. Chose the red one, and for better or worse, you'll know.

For me, everyone telling me how great and wonderful kids how much fulfilment you gain, well, that just sounds as crazy as if they had told me that my reality is actually controlled by a giant computer. This comes from seeing all the whiney spoiled children in public; to my niece, whom I love dearly and seen at least once a week since her birth up into her terrible twos. I have philisophical issues about having children. And if any parent wants to call me non-commital or selfish, that's fine.

I'm with Jab, I live my life for leisure time. My job is just there to make sure I have a means to a quality leisure time. I'd rather take the blue pill. I don't want any children, and I don't really care to know how great and fulfilling it is.

[ Edited by: paranoid123 2005-12-06 16:43 ]

On 2005-12-06 16:36, paranoid123 wrote:

I'm with Jab, I live my life for leisure time. My jab is just there to make sure I have a means to a quality leisure time. I'd rather take the blue pill. I don't want any children, and I don't really care to know how great and fulfilling it is.

... some are non breeders, indeed... for those, the little blue pill is merely a party drug... be safe...

OK, I found the thread.

Incredible!

It was very moving and I admire your reaction. Nothing but openness and high class.

I showed my wife, who read through the whole thread and then giggled - which surprised me a little.

She said, "Well, he got to skip feedings, diapers, and potty training, but he signed on just in time for college!"

She was also moved by how naturally you made someone's life that much more complete. Plus, now there is one more person in the world to love you and be loved by you!

We both wish you all the best.

Well, one of the things I learned early on about being
a healhty human being is this. When an idea you had no longer
reflects reality, you have to abandon it. If you don't, what are
you left with. An inability to recognise reality.

I know there is an actual quote by someone about this fact.

So I have a daughter who means the world to me. And who I know
can teach me a world of lessons.But dont worry, I wont try
to convert anyone to the cult. My daughter and I have our own
cult. And the membership is very select.

Here's the tastiest sounding recipe for crow I could find...
Vegetarians can even partake :wink:

Jamaican Crow Recipe

Ingredients:

2.0 oz Club Soda
0.5 oz Grenadine
1.0 oz Lime juice
1.5 oz Light Rum

Directions:
Fill a Shaker half full with ice cubes. Pour all ingredients except soda into Shaker and shake well. Fill a Collins glass almost full with ice cubes and strain drink into glass. Add the Club Soda and stir well. Garnish with an Orange Slice and a Maraschino Cherry.

Congratulations and thanks TG for sharing.
I was telling your story to a friend over lunch today and we both got more than a little a little verklempt.
Only the best of wishes to you and your daughter!

I don't akshully HAVE anykids, but if'n I did, this is the summer camp they would go to.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5854686068870249151

Kids.... They are great until they start smoking weed and skipping school and listening to rock music. And then there is the reckless driving, the unprotected sex, underage booze and the arrests. Don't get me started. It must have been hell on my parents.

On 2005-12-08 11:56, Kailuageoff wrote:
Kids.... They are great until they start smoking weed and skipping school and listening to rock music. And then there is the reckless driving, the unprotected sex, underage booze and the arrests. Don't get me started. It must have been hell on my parents.

At least by then they've grown out of that awkward 7 to 10 year old stage where all they want to do is fire .30 caliber machine guns at moving targets loaded with explosives. Oh, they grow up so fast!

Re: Tiki Gardener

...think about it. That's an experience we women will never have: finding out later in life that we have a kid we didn't know we had. :wink: Just imagine!

I think it would be really keen, myself, and so I too am very happy for you TG! I thought the whole story was marvelous actually, and what I liked best about it is simply this:

He was happy and well-adjusted not having a kid, and when he found out he had one, he promptly moved to a NEW happy and well-adjusted position. That rules!

tikivixen

On 2006-01-29 17:10, tikivixen wrote:
That's an experience we women will never have: finding out later in life that we have a kid we didn't know we had.

....unless you're one of those women who gets pregnant and gives birth while in a coma! :lol:

On 2005-12-08 11:56, Kailuageoff wrote:
Kids.... They are great until they start smoking weed and skipping school and listening to rock music. And then there is the reckless driving, the unprotected sex, underage booze and the arrests.

That's when your kids tell themselves: "we are the people our parents warned us about" (just like we did).

And then when they get older they get a chainsaw.