I thought I would share a few thoughts on surfing and tiki, the catylyst being some thoughts Tiki Bong shared in the 'What's Changed' thread.

Although I realize that for many on this list there is a strong connection between surfing and tiki, I find myself somehow separating them into two different camps.

I grew up associating surfing with the Beach Boys, Elvis Presley movies, and soft drink commercials. I was well aware of at least the main surf bands from an early date (Surfaris, 'Surfin' Bird, Jan & Dean, etc)
As long as I can remember, there were some references to surfing going on in pop culture. Growing up in Wisconsin, where lakes and beaches regularly freeze each year, most of these images were only obtained through television.

As for tiki, I didn't really discover this subculture until the mid-90's, when Tiki News first appeared as a totally fresh way of looking at our culture. I loved the idea of creating a Polynesian paradise to retreat to, and the drinks associated with this sub-culture are pretty good too. Tiki is something that everyone could get into, without having to relocate to California or Hawaii or some other tropical locale.

Because I have two sets of personal and cultural mindviews with surfing and tiki, I find myself drawing somewhat of a dividing line between the two. I noticed this when I immediately liked Kooche's new 'Tiki Ti' print, but didn't enjoy as much his tapa print. I love the overall style of both, but I found myself a bit turned off with the corner surfer scene, which somehow placed it more into my 'surfing' category than my 'tiki' category - enough so that I did not consider buying the latter.

I guess that I was intrigued by Tiki Bong's comments on how he had long been associated with surfing. I never really consider anyone discovering tiki through surfing. Although I am aware of some linkage between the two, and am appreciative of the linkage, I had never associated this as being a real strong link.

So some questions.....

1. Are surfing and tiki more closely connected in California and Hawaii, and less so in other parts of the country?

2. Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave, or the pull of the perfect mai-tai?

3. How much overlap is there between the tiki and surfing crowd?

3a) Will an average joe-surfer feel comfortable in a midwestern tiki bar in the middle of winter?

3b) Will a midwesterner, (especially one who can't swim), fit in at a surfer beach party?

3c) Isn't it nice to have tiki as a possible link between the two groups?

Anyway, I do want to thank Tiki Bong for helping me to look at things in a new way. This post isn't meant to be a slam at surfers at all, as I do admire the surfing subculture, and how it represents for many an American ideal.

VErn

Hi, thanks for such a thought provoking thread!

I have an overlap between Tiki and surfing in my mind because I think of both as being timeless when done right. Both are somewhat outside the metronome of the modern world.

An even bigger connection between the two for me is the juxtapositioning of a modern pursuit in an environment that is really primordial.

For me, Tiki is the meeting of "the abstract furure" that is even more modern than modern with the primitive and timeless. Tiki is almost a reaction to the future, maybe.

Surfing is also a time out of the modern world kinda thing, so they seem to fit.

Heck, I'd even include alot of the current Buddha/Ganesha kind of stylings as Tiki for that same time out of time reason.

Surfing, Disc Golf, Tiki, Fine Tunes, Fine Libations.....they are all kinda Zen, too; where the activity exists for its own sake.

Anyway, the questions!

1. Are surfing and tiki more closely connected in California and Hawaii, and less so in other parts of the country?

Probably, Tiki and surfing share similar climates and manana like timing.

2. Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave, or the pull of the perfect mai-tai?

Mai Tai right now. The waves when the ocean is at hand.

3. How much overlap is there between the tiki and surfing crowd?

Some. Sorry for being vague.

3a) Will an average joe-surfer feel comfortable in a midwestern tiki bar in the middle of winter?

If the heater is working! Absolutely! Where else would he, if not there?

3b) Will a midwesterner, (especially one who can't swim), fit in at a surfer beach party?

If he or she is cool.

3c) Isn't it nice to have tiki as a possible link between the two groups?

Absolutely!

ikitnrev,

(serious Bong now...)

Good questions, to which I have done some research.

First, I believe surfing and tiki are exactly related in that, for the most part, were brought to a high art form by Hawaiians.

Also, during the late 50's and 60's, you'd be hard pressed to find a surfer without a tiki pendant (I also collect old surfer pendants/medals).

Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave or perfect Mai Tai: nothing I love better than dawn patrol at the local break, surf until the crowds come, pedal back home and mix up a Mai Tai. So the answer is - Yes.

How much overlap between tiki and surfing crowd (see first answer).

The average Surfer Joe will feel comfortable anywhere (that's the problem with those lazy bums!)

Will a mid-westerner feel comfortable at a surfer beach party - yes, if he's with a local or yes, if she's a hottie.

Vern, I'm adding you to my A list (sorry).

Surfing is feeding your soul. I have never experienced the same feeling from anything tiki that compares to the nirvana of riding the ocean. I would burn every tiki item I own to ride the perfect wave.

[ Edited by: tiki-riviera on 2003-10-23 00:09 ]

Tiki Riviera,

Hey, I'm heading down to Trail 6 at San Onofre this Saturday - 6am. You in?

For me the two go hand in hand... and I've brought a tiki or two down to the pier or water's edge in the hope the waves will build... it did the last big session... and the rest of the guys were stoked over it... I love seeing tiki and surf intertwined, goes with the thoughts of tropical waves, foliage and beaches...

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer on 2003-10-23 22:32 ]

On 2003-10-22 18:12, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Hey, I'm heading down to Trail 6 at San Onofre this Saturday - 6am. You in?

Old Man's no dought? I know it well.

On 2003-10-22 16:59, ikitnrev wrote:
Although I realize that for many on this list there is a strong connection between surfing and tiki, I find myself somehow separating them into two different camps.

A point of view from a California native, I find tiki and surf culture blend quite well together, even harmoniously. My tiki bar has a blend of both cultures and it fits like a glove. I don’t bother myself with the politics of history or ethics of the subject (not saying you did), I just have fun and enjoy myself.
What I am trying to say is; together, they both rock. Another catalyst that brings them both obviously together is alcohol (or gaunga).
Just have fun.

Great topic Vern! I've always felt that surf and tiki intermingled quite harmoniously. As a matter of fact, it was my (roundabout) way of getting into tiki.

You know, some people think that tiki is only what came from the Polynesian Pop era but, I couldn't disagree more. People find their way to tiki in many different ways - island heritage, modernism preservation, rockabilly scene, wood carving, art collecting, etc...surfing culture is just one of them.

In the 60's, it wasn't uncommon for surfers to wear tikis as good luck charms.

I grew up surfing almost daily in the South Bay/PV. After moving to Santa Barbara for collage, I got into freedive spearfishing and did that almost daily, because it was always flat. 15 years later, I get out to spearfish as often as I can, maybe 2 or 3 times a month. I got into tiki, when I went to Hawaii and picked up a killer carved crab bowl from one of the carvers from Tonga. I bought it to put into my "Ocean Room". Once turned on to tiki I realized that it is the perfect paradise for me as I dream of living on a tropical island, lounging around, spearfishing, surfing, and drinking. With my family of course. To me I guess I just dig the oceanic culture, and the faux cocktails happen to be superb.

Cheers,

KT

Very good point, Pop. People get into tiki for all kinds of reasons. I see the connection between tiki and surfing and I think that it's pretty strong but mainly from the movies of the sixties. My Dad was a 'pro' (free wetsuits when they came about and pics on magazine covers) surfer back in the early sixties in Malibu. He even parked cars at the Tonga Lei but he never owned a tiki necklace or a mug. The real tiki connection was from the movies. Bong's right about the Hawaiian connection though.

My opinionated answers to your questions ikitnrev:

1. Surfing today has really nothing to do with tiki. A lot of longboard surfers may collect tiki but having worked for a long time at Rusty Surfboards designing tee shirts, I can tell you that the youth has little to no interest in tiki. The longboard and tiki thing may go hand in hand at places like San Onofre though where 'old school' still reigns supreme.

2. Any surfer that says a perfect mai tai is better than a perfect wave is not a surfer and does not deserve to be in the water, period.

3a. I feel great in any tiki bar, especially in the midwest.

3b. Depending on what beach and whose there, a mid westerner might feel very comfortable at a beach party. If it was with our OC tiki clan, you'd definitely feel very comfortable. A surfer party is a very different thing though.

3c. Yes, it is nice to have the tiki/ surfing link even if it is through the skewed view of 1960's Hollywood.

Great post/ topic Vern!

TikiBong,

I appreciate the invite, but i'm moving to Seattle in two weeks and my life is insane right now. Probably would help relieve the stress, guess i'll have to rely on some smokeus alotus cannibus for that!

On 2003-10-22 20:30, Unga Bunga wrote:

On 2003-10-22 18:12, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Hey, I'm heading down to Trail 6 at San Onofre this Saturday - 6am. You in?

Old Man's no dought? I know it well.

Unga, Trail 6 isn't Old Man's; Old Man's is North of the Nuke plant and Trail 6 is South of it, and South of the INS Checkpoint.

A few years ago, not many surfed Trail 6 (well, relative to Old Man's) but it's getting more crowded, but a hell of a lot less than HB or Old Man's.

Oh well (swell)...

i had always lived near salt water until i went to college...

i grew up in Laguna beach...killer beaches...creek...strands...then i moved to Sydney in 8th grade and upgraded to a fiberglass board...newport...avalon...snorkeled the reef from Cairns to Sydney...then after highschool i was on Kauai for 2 months and sailed from Hanalei to Avalon on my dad's boat...52 foot sloop named Serendipity...you can watch a satelite cross the sky from horizon to horizon with your naked eye when you are in the middle of the pacific...tom sawyer much?

i graduated highschool with 33 unexcused absences in my senior year at San Dieguito in Encinitas... all olf them were because of decent surf...the bus to school was just a trip south on the coast which spot is best today?...Beacons was the closest walk to beach so i made it my home...

tiki is the the god of war...surfing is much the same and if you haven't tried it you can't appreciate it's finer more meditative quality...i miss it SO MUCH now that i live in LA...in fact i would say that for me surfing is THE reason i paint tiki/oceanic imagery...i dream of selling enough tiki apparel that i can move my family to santa barbara and retire a longboarder that teaches art to 4 year olds...hear me TIKI? make it so!

Surfing is life
TiKi is Art
Life without Art is boring

In my mind tiki links to just about anything that exploded as a popular phenomena in the 50's to early 60's so that would include the 50th state, hi-fi/stereo, Elvis, Playboy, cocktails, bachelor pads, space age design, surf culture, gambling, night clubs/lounges and exotica music. All of these touchstones are part of the reason I dig tiki so much.

Also, since we hardly ever hear from BigBro anymore (regretably some things have changed), I have to mention that the Hawaiians did invent surfing, but the haole's invented "tiki culture".

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-10-29 12:14 ]

I was very disappointed that the Museum of Surfing in Huntington Beach was closed when I stopped by on the 17th. (before we headed over to Ben's shop, which is partly why we got there so late). The sign on the door said "closed due to lack of staff". Lame!

Surfing in Canada!
I saw this in the paper today and wanted to share.

This is Sombrio Beach here on Vancouver Island

[ Edited by: Tikiwahine 2006-02-02 17:00 ]

Bodyboarding - the other surfing. Tiki goes wherever theres waves.

Well, I don't surf, but from what I understand, surfing was originated in Hawaii as an activity of the King Kamehameha , and all his heirs ( Kamehameha II, III IV etc)...it was a sport of royalty. This is what I understand from some reading I've done on Hawaii.
Tiki is obviously from Hawaii too, but there TIKI is found on all the South Seas Islands...Fiji, New Zealand, Easter Island, Tahiti, Samoa etc....

So, I think the Surf and TIKI connection is very real as part of Hawaiian culture.

I think they go hand in hand, although the TIKI Culture we all in TC love is the 50's kitsch version made famous by mainlanders in the form of restaurants, bars, miniature golf courses etc...so, maybe that's why you separate the two.
I know that Surfing is definitely Hawaiian, so is TIKI. I could be wrong about surfing being originated in Hawaii, but I know that it was a sport of the Kings in ancient Hawaii.

On 2003-10-27 23:49, bananabobs wrote:
Surfing is life
TiKi is Art
Life without Art is boring

That is about the best thing I have read in a long time.
Very well said.

I've got a tiki on my surfboard, the best of both worlds!

I would definately see tiki's fitting into a surfer bar, and I watch surfing movies at my local tiki bar.

On 2006-02-02 19:07, rodeotiki wrote:

On 2003-10-27 23:49, bananabobs wrote:
Surfing is life
TiKi is Art
Life without Art is boring

That is about the best thing I have read in a long time.
Very well said.

You know whats funny, I had forgotten about this thread and was reading it from the start and when I got to that, I thought, darn! Thats good! and then I saw I wrote it and laughed for a half hour. Thanks for the kudo, I am better than I thought I was...
Surfing has brought me almost everything that is good in my life, I grew up 6 miles from Topanga beach, surfed since 1966 (11 years old) from Surfing I met Jesus, my wife and my best friends, in that order, now I surf with my kids, and it brings us closer, Surfing brought me a love of the ocean and nature which lead to Hawaiian culture and from there TiKi. With a love of art, I sought that which is in my heart which enforced the whole tropical/ocean/nautical/surfin/Hawaiian madness that I clump together as TiKi.

Art by Rick Griffin, Surfer magazine

[ Edited by: bananabobs 2006-02-02 20:32 ]

Forgot about this thread...

On 2003-10-22 16:59, ikitnrev wrote:

As long as I can remember, there were some references to surfing going on in pop culture. Growing up in Wisconsin, where lakes and beaches regularly freeze each year, most of these images were only obtained through television.

What years Vern? Surfing came to the Great lakes in 1963 and there were surf clubs in Sheboygan, Kenosha, Illinois and Michigan... though less popular than it is today...

1. Are surfing and tiki more closely connected in California and Hawaii, and less so in other parts of the country?

A. Surfing and tiki are connected big in Florida too... and in my opinion the surf stoke runs harder in Florida due to the lack of consistency in good surf.

2. Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave, or the pull of the perfect mai-tai?

A. Perfect wave... followed by the mai-tai later that night and stories of the day's session.

3. How much overlap is there between the tiki and surfing crowd?

A. I think a lot. Tiki is used quite a bit in surf advertising, clothing and store decor.

3a) Will an average joe-surfer feel comfortable in a midwestern tiki bar in the middle of winter?

A. I know I sure do.

3b) Will a midwesterner, (especially one who can't swim), fit in at a surfer beach party?

A. We'll make sure you fit in... better yet as a midwesterner you can come to a midwestern surfer beach party in Sheboygan every year at The Dairyland Surf Classic in August!

3c) Isn't it nice to have tiki as a possible link between the two groups?

A. Heck ya!

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer 2006-02-02 21:58 ]

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer 2006-02-02 23:11 ]

Please check my newest cartoon "Hellotiki cartoon for 2-3-06" (posted a few hour ago) in the Creating Tiki section, to see how strongly surfing affects the youth (yute) of today.

The buzz of hooking into a sweet wave is the same as that experienced sitting in a Mai Tai infused haze in a cool tiki bar.

On 2003-10-22 16:59, ikitnrev wrote:

So some questions.....

1. Are surfing and tiki more closely connected in California and Hawaii, and less so in other parts of the country?

In the UK the Biggest surf brand we have is called Tiki and has been around since '63. SCTikis apparently has some of his Tikis down in our Cornish surf shops

2. Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave, or the pull of the perfect mai-tai?

They go hand in hand, although you should really try and get them in the right order

3. How much overlap is there between the tiki and surfing crowd?

Quite a bit, the Mai Tai bar in Croyde, Devon is there because it's a popular surfing town

3a) Will an average joe-surfer feel comfortable in a midwestern tiki bar in the middle of winter?

I wouldn't know

3b) Will a midwesterner, (especially one who can't swim), fit in at a surfer beach party?

I wouldn't know

3c) Isn't it nice to have tiki as a possible link between the two groups?

Yes

Anyway, I do want to thank Tiki Bong for helping me to look at things in a new way.

Me too

This post isn't meant to be a slam at surfers at all, as I do admire the surfing subculture, and how it represents for many an American ideal.

... the two are unrelated...

... tiki is an affectation...

... surfing is a way of life...

1. Are surfing and tiki more closely connected in California and Hawaii, and less so in other parts of the country?

I dont think you will find much of a surfing connection in the mid-west.

2. Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave, or the pull of the perfect mai-tai?

I would smash any of my tiki mugs on the floor if i knew I would get perfect waves. I dont think anyone would ever camp in a jungle just to get a perfect mai-tai. There are few things with as much pull as a good barrel. Has anyone ever quit their job or moved because of a mai-tai?

3. How much overlap is there between the tiki and surfing crowd?

That varies too much from person to person, and location.

3a) Will an average joe-surfer feel comfortable in a midwestern tiki bar in the middle of winter?

I cant speak for all surfers, but I am never comfortable in winter.

3b) Will a midwesterner, (especially one who can't swim), fit in at a surfer beach party?

Depends on what kind of drunk he or she is.

3c) Isn't it nice to have tiki as a possible link between the two groups?

Possible link? Do you think its possible that ancient tiki carvers also carved the best surfboards too?

I missed this post the first time around thanks for bumping and sharin' the Candian stokage Tikiwahine.

Hey Vern! A day late and a clam short for what it's worth here are my thoughts. I too have lived in California all my life and grew up in the late sixties heavily influenced by So Cal surf and pop culture. I have lived a pebbles toss away the ocean most of my life and have been surfin' through most of it. Tiki has been there since the beginning and has gone hand in hand with surfin' . For me. tiki and surfin' have always been deeply connected because of they have always been together in my vision of a what a tropical island paradise would look like. As I went through life my definition of tiki was broadend and it grew too include more things from authentic Hawaiian culture and California pop culture. surf, exotica and Hawaiian music, car culture, 50's nostalgia, restaurants, rum, mugs, dune buggies, shrunken heads, etc etc. But for me the center of it will be always be surfin' and the beach. Obviously the ancient and spirituals roots are much deeper when you talk of the Hawaiian connection between surfing and tiki. Although, I can still get a strong sense of being good with the gods here in California on a warm sunny day with a nice swell runnin"

and now onto your questions...

1. Are surfing and tiki more closely connected in California and Hawaii, and less so in other parts of the country?

I would say yes, There is a strong influence of Hawaiian and beach culture in every day life in costal California and in Hawaii. People who don't surf or even go to the beach have surf stickers on thier car and surf company logos on their clothes. I think its safe to say that in Californina and Hawaii surfin' is much more a "way of life" than in other parts of the world. You can't deny tiki's omnipresence inside the surf shops and around the beach communities which are numerous in California and Hawaii.

2. Which is stronger, the pull of the perfect wave, or the pull of the perfect mai-tai?
   I am with Lucky Designs and the Big Kahuna on this one too. If you call yourself a surfer and would rather sip a drink than slide into a perfect wave. Your priorities are obvioulsy all askew.

3. How much overlap is there between the tiki and surfing crowd?
   To some degree there is an overlap. I tend to think more often than not tiki is simply cosmetic and there is not much understanding or interest in the culture behind it. To many iIt's just another icon that says "Beach Culture" Most surfers know what a tiki is and like the way they look, but very few are concerned about tiki culture or Hawaiian history. I would go so far as to say I bet there is a lot of surfer that are unaware of a tiki community.

3a) Will an average joe-surfer feel comfortable in a midwestern tiki bar in the middle of winter?
Surfers were a fairly recognizable and distinct group of people, now I think there is mostly just a bunch of people who surf. They also play golf, rollerblade, do crimes, fight fires etc. There really is no such thing as an average Joe surfer anymore. Most of the time the only common thing between me and the guy or girl sitting next to me in the line up is that we both want the next wave that comes through. I would say most of the time that is where all similarities stop. I am not sure when surfing transformed into a lifestyle that now includes thug, pimp and ho culture.
Back to your question, It well really depend on the person. One dude might relate to a tiki bar in the mid west because it's warm, the rum is working and the bar speaks to him on the level of tiki equals surfing, Hawaii and the beach. It may remind him of what he enjoys so he relates. Another surfer may wander into a tiki bar full or fez wearin' people sippin' fruity drinks and think who the hell are these geeks? He then gets pissed cause "these idiots don't know the first thing about surfing" and start a fight with Jungle Trader. Well JT kicks his ass and it's the talk of TC how he saved everybody from the crazy jarhead. My point being, the guy didn't look like what many think a surfer looks like and don't mess with Jungle Trader.

3b) Will a midwesterner, (especially one who can't swim), fit in at a surfer beach party?
Once again it really depends on the crowd of people. If your everyone is cool and then yes shouldnt be a problem. But if stumble across a bunch of drunk locals getting pissed by the fire after fightin' for waves all days with the tourist kooks. Then you may end up with some glass, blood and surf wax stuck to the side of your face. Unfortunately, there is a lot of aggression in the surfin' world and quite a few egomaniacs with chips on their shoulders who not the kind of people I want to be around. I get along better with the old timers out on the longboards and the tiki people. They are way more genuine and don't seem to take themselves so seriously as the new breed does

3c) Isn't it nice to have tiki as a possible link between the two groups?
There is a link but I don't believe most people in either group thinks about it as much as we obviously do.

The End

On 2003-10-27 23:49, bananabobs wrote:
Surfing is life
TiKi is Art
Life without Art is boring

Good Stuff BB.

Lost-Isle
Lost-Isle Trading Post
Barefoot bloggin'

[ Edited by: chongolio 2006-02-22 04:28 ]

On 2006-02-04 05:07, bigkahuna627 wrote:
I dont think anyone would ever camp in a jungle just to get a perfect mai-tai.

I would. :)

p.s. Surfing and Tiki is very much related. Trust me.

M

[ Edited by poptiki on 2022-10-12 05:32:09 ]

On 2006-02-02 22:17, hewey wrote:

...The buzz of hooking into a sweet wave is the same as that experienced sitting in a Mai Tai infused haze in a cool tiki bar.

... you're a fine gent but you don't surf, bro...

On 2006-02-04 19:01, Chongolio wrote:

...I get along better with the old timers out on the longboards and the tiki people. They are way more genuine and don't seem to take themselves so seriously as the new breed does...

... tiki, again, is merely an affectation and has no relevance to actual surfing or the surfing culture, just as the beach boys had no real relevance to true surfing culture...

... those who surf, think not of tiki but of the ocean and its abundance...

... for many, tiki is fun and is a neat distraction from the everyday grind of work...

... and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that...

... but to suggest that there may be an inherent link between the two... yikes...

... the new breed are the next old timers... you get what you give...

... in the aloha spirit, the alohbros spend hours every week volunteering, helping the new breed get their sea legs, teaching waveriding, ocean culture and environmental respect, rain or shine, hot or cold, double overhead or flat...

... tiki, they'll pick up in college or sometime thereafter...

... love your kids... teach 'em to surf...

On 2006-02-04 19:01, Chongolio wrote:

... Obviously the ancient and spirituals roots are much deeper when you talk of the Hawaiian connection between surfing and tiki. Although, I can still get a strong sense of being good with the gods here in California on a warm sunny day with a nice swell runnin"

... water 56... air 56... overcast... surf 8' plus... medium low tide...

... "good with the gods... warm sunny day"?...

... geez bro...

... take off left... go right... come down zig-zag...

To get technical and philosophical, specific "atmospheres" are concepts that have different degrees of overlap that can be measured. Atmospheres can be represented by semantic nets of associated concepts, and a metric can be defined between atmospheres that allows for measurement of how closely those atmospheres are related. The specific atmospheres being debated here are "tiki" and "surfing", but there are many others that are closely related. Another example of similar but different atmospheres are the futuristic Atlantis atmosphere (as in Disney's animated film) and the futuristic oceanic atmosphere (as in the white room with the dolphin pool in the film "2010"). Those two atmospheres are reflected in many books, films, amusement parks, restaurants, and interior designs. There are many other standard atmospheres, but to my knowledge nobody has tried to list or define or publish these. I don't even know of an accurate word for this concept of decor/culture/patina/theme: I'm just using the word "atmosphere" as an approximation. The implication is that society doesn't take atmospheres very seriously or treat them as an important topic. Obviously I take all this stuff seriously, so I've done a lot of thinking about atmospheres over the years. Anyway, the atmospheres/cultures of tiki and surfing are two more concepts that I would say are similar but ultimately and measurably distinct.

One reason I love Disneyland so much is that within a short distance one can move between so many of these different atmospheres without having to travel hundreds or thousands of miles. Personally, I could care less about Mickey Mouse. I suspect this atmosphere aspect of Disneyland is one of the key components of its success, and would stand on its own even if Mickey's popularity permanently faded. Some atmospheres are based only on personal experiences and eras of one's own life, too, and are often associated with music. Oftentimes the reason one person can't relate to the music and hobbies of another person is because they haven't tuned into the atmosphere that is the underlying theme and motivation of the other person's tastes. I think this topic is important for many reasons: it reflects a person's psychology and what's meaningful to them, it can bring people together, it's the underlying core of many products for sale, it's a method of organizing searches on eBay, it's an important link when performing data mining, it is important for correlating architecture with interior design (furniture, furnishings, decor, etc.), it's an important component in the success of films, and more.

OK, I think that's enough of my two cents worth. I hope I haven't blown anybody away or made a nerdy fool of myself.

... but to suggest that there may be an inherent link between the two... yikes...

... in the aloha spirit, the alohbros spend hours every week volunteering, helping the new breed get their sea legs, teaching waveriding, ocean culture and environmental respect, rain or shine, hot or cold, double overhead or flat..

You have to be kidding. To say that there is NO link is crazy in my opinion. I guess that the vintage surf trophies I have seen shaped like tiki are wrong then. Could you tell my why Sven would put any referance to surfing in the BOT?
Its admirable that you donate your time to teach others , please don't hurt yourself patting your own back. Maybe I should call the whaaaaa-mbulance.

[ Edited by: rodeotiki 2006-02-05 18:50 ]