Texas police arrests drinkers for being drunk IN A BAR

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060322/us_nm/bars_dc

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.

"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."

She said the sting operations would continue throughout the state.

[ Edited by: johnnievelour 2006-03-22 16:02 ]

As bad as this sounds, just wait until the "authorities" unleash every Texan's worst nightmare...sending undercover cops into gun stores to arrest gun buyers before they get a chance to go out and shoot somebody!

On 2006-03-22 19:58, Shipwreckjoey wrote:
As bad as this sounds, just wait until the "authorities" unleash every Texan's worst nightmare...sending undercover cops into gun stores to arrest gun buyers before they get a chance to go out and shoot somebody!

Joey, Don't forget that San Diego's the home of the only Liquor & Gun Store in these great United States! Where did I put that picture?

I think the interesting thing here is people's perception of the term 'in public'. In my opinion, a bar is a private establishment and for that matter so is a 50,000 seat arena. On the street, in a park, city zoo--that's 'in public' to me.

Yeah this is nuts. I agree with pappy - a bar isn't a 'public' place where you can be spotted by kids and tea-totalers. It's getting out of hand. I thought this kind of stuff was only in California. (Except of course the liquor store/gun shop in San Diego; that has got to be somebody's next target).

Bad movie, perfect reference, but did anyone here see the movie Minority Report?

And, I was born in Angelina County, Texas, which is a dry county. The county is full of bars, but you have to be a 'member' to have a drink. The cost to be a member is different for every bar, but the fact remains that you have to be a member of the club. That means that you are in a private establishment and I want to see the TAB go after someone in there. If memory serves, Angelina County was one of the first counties to issue a concealed weapon permit.....

On 2006-03-22 22:33, freddiefreelance wrote:

Joey, Don't forget that San Diego's the home of the only Liquor & Gun Store in these great United States! Where did I put that picture?

Hiram's Guns & Liquor on Main St in (where else) El Cajon. I don't know if they're still there. It was located somewhere between the Hells Angels clubhouse and Kozac's as I recall.

On 2006-03-23 13:54, Chip and Andy wrote:
The county is full of bars, but you have to be a 'member' to have a drink. The cost to be a member is different for every bar, but the fact remains that you have to be a member of the club. That means that you are in a private establishment and I want to see the TAB go after someone in there.

I'm a member of the "Grand Ceremonial Forum of Mystery Tiki Alchs" and our charter says, Dink Till Ya Drop"
I love this club!

"No jury in the world's going to convict a baby. Mmm...maybe Texas."
--Chief Clancy Wiggum

Even more absurd than not being able to smoke in a bar. Big Brother is alive and well in Texas. But then, everything is big in Texas. The private club thing is a good idea, but, now I want to ask: Does the amount you pay to become a member in a particular club reflect a patron's social status/club's exclusivity? Just wondering.

Today in Scotland begins a law of "No Smoking in Public" that was so dreaded by liquor companies that several had profitable companies had been sold because of how this ban is expected to impact Pubs (Pub is short for Public House BTW)

I wonder if the people in the Texas bar were behaving badly, flashing genitalia, fighting or rooting against Texas in the March Madness Tournament?

I don't think a bar is "public." In photography, we were told that in "public", like on the street, you have the legal right to photograph anyone. In "private" a home, a business, you do not. That's why the Paparazzi are at the entrance. The bar is owned by a private person and open to the public. It is not a public space, like a sidewalk or a park. I'd fight and sue like a mo'fo on this one. Especially if it was at my bar. They just killed your business for a decade! Set 'em straight.

When the ban for smoking came down in NYC a few years ago it was neither here nor there for me being a non-smoker. Everybody thought it was going to kill, or at least hurt bar business. A few years later I can tell you that I think it's a great idea, and I'm not usually for these so-called 'quality of life' laws. Bar and club business in this town is still booming, in fact they can't build them fast enough in the Meat Packing District and the East Village. And now I can go out, hang out at a bar or see a band at a club and my clothes don't smell like smoke at the end of the night. The only people whose business this is gonna hurt is the makers of Febreze.

As far as this arresting drunks at bars...I mean, isn't that why people go to bars in the first place? What's next? Arresting people at restaurants when they over eat? Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the responsiblity of the bar/bartender to eject the people that get really, really drunk and obnoxious?

On 2006-03-22 16:01, johnnievelour wrote:
"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said.

Yeah, like legislating and enforcing ridiculous laws like this!

[ Edited by: joefla70 2006-03-27 11:03 ]

I was recently arrested in Texas for going topless at a public pool.

Sabu

... its a great law, especially in texas...

... even better would be a law addressing the intent to be drunk... in texas, no less...

... many know, but are afraid to admit that officer narcolepsy is never as busy as he should be...

Well, it's not just happening in San Antonio. They had a segment on the nightly news last week about it going on here in Lubbock. PFT, moronic if you ask me. might as well bring back prohabition. I guess the only good things I could say is that I'm glad there are no tiki/tropical themed bars out here (just freekin Sports bars and honky tonks) to get caught at, and I'm glad I have a home bar.

I worked for miller beer back in the late 90's and let me tell you, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commision thinks they are the legion of old "Molly Hatchet". I've watch them swander into a bar and start ripping down beer POS (point of sales) posters and such. I think they need to be on a shorter leash and neutered. EFF You TABC, right in the ear.

Not to change the subject from drinking to stripping (for some reason the two are inexplicably intertwined in my little demented mind) when I went on a business trip to Norfolk, VA in 1978 I was surprised the exotic dancers couldn't show nay-nays, woo-woos or tushies. They were wearing bikinis less revealing than I could see on women sunbathing at Mission Beach! The laws concerning what alcohol you could buy, where you had to buy it and what day of the week was also a little F'ed up. My partner and I were stuck there for two & a half weeks in the middle of the summer from HELL. If it wasn't for our girlfriends sending us a care package with all the ingredients for the perfect home mini bar we might not have made it out of there alive.

On 2006-03-29 21:47, Shipwreckjoey wrote:
...when I went on a business trip to Norfolk, VA in 1978 I was surprised the exotic dancers couldn't show nay-nays, woo-woos or tushies. They were wearing bikinis less revealing than I could see on women sunbathing at Mission Beach!

Hey man, I live here to watch the SURFING, not for all jiggling spring break nay-nays and woo-woos...

But about this stupid Texas thing.

Everyone understands laws against public intoxication are necessary.

If the police want to wait on the sidewalk and give everyone a breathalyser test as they exit a bar, that's excessive but still O.K. by me, but extending this practice into private businesses licensed to sell alcohol seems more than just overstepping a bit.

That being said it is Texas after all and I've learned never to misunderestimate the average Texans ability to endure or even support absolutely any manner of unacceptable bureaucratic behavior.

Just ask this guy...

...indicted for participated in an illegal conspiracy to funnel corporate money into the 2002 state election "with the intent that a felony be committed."...and a shoe-in for re-election! Yee Haw!

*On 2006-03-22 22:33, freddiefreelance wrote:*Joey, Don't forget that San Diego's the home of the only Liquor & Gun Store in these great United States!

Sweet! Hey Freddie and Shipwreck... Let's put on our alohas, go down there and take some pictures holding rum and rifles to post for the folks at TC!

Maybe there will be a breathalizer at the bar and you'll have to blow .01 or less to order another round... Best to order 3 at a time then.

That being said it is Texas after all and I've learned never to misunderestimate the average Texans ability to endure or even support absolutely any manner of unacceptable bureaucratic behavior.

Hey hodad, aside from the TC politics taboo you're headed toward there, as a fellow Californian I'm amazed that you think any other state fosters unique levels of "unacceptable bureaucratic behavior". California sets the gold standard that all the other states can only aspire to. Rah rah, we're #1!

BTW, I think the story sounds nuts too, almost like something from the Onion, the way some of it is worded. But actually, from the talk on this thread I must be square, because I never get drunk in a bar.

-Randy

It would still be totally safe to go drink in a hotel bar, wouldn't it? Their argument that the drunks will be in public as soon as they leave the bar doesn't hold water in that case (not that it holds any water, anyhow). Anybody in those bars can argue that they're headed up to a hotel bed afterward, I would bet that the cops aren't targeting those bars.

Here's the part where I'm contractually bound to remind all that politics & religion are taboo for discussion on TC.

One of the arrests that was televised was at a hotel bar. The people were pissed! So was everyone watching it. It harms the individual and, more importantly, our tourism business. It also ruins the whole point of the designated driver campaign. This won't be enforced for long. They got their air-time and will back off. So don't be afraid to come down for the opening of the new Trader Vic's in Dallas in August.

On 2006-03-30 08:20, hodadhank wrote:
Sweet! Hey Freddie and Shipwreck... Let's put on our alohas, go down there and take some pictures holding rum and rifles to post for the folks at TC!

While singing along to fellow San Diegan Tom Waits' song "16 Shells from a Thirty-Ought Six". A song about guns that was obviously inspired by the ol' pirate classic "16 Men on a Dead Man's Chest". A song about rum. Hey, I'm startin' to get it...Rum=Guns...Guns=Rum! And REDRUM spelled backwards=MURDER.

On 2006-03-30 14:02, Humuhumu wrote:

... It would still be totally safe to go drink in a hotel bar, wouldn't it... argument that the drunks will be in public as soon as they leave the bar... Anybody in those bars can argue that they're headed up to a hotel bed afterward, I would bet that the cops aren't targeting those bars...

... perhaps this goes to the liability issue... those hotel drunks fall in stairwells, get crushed in elevators, get feet stuck in escalators, stumble over railings and fall, to near-certain death, onto the pool decks stories below...

... sounds like a drunk occupancy tax would be just be around the corner... a dangerous corner, indeed, cause ya know a hotel drunk could also stumble around a corner and bash into a group of elementary school musicians killing or maiming some or all... who is responsible then, the hotel drunk, the hotel, the bartender, the booze company, the property owner, the elementary school, the parents... the list goes on...

... jail 'em all and put 'em to work bottling energy drinks or manufacturing sandals from old tires...

Carolyn Beck of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission doesn't "understand the hateful outrage."

Don't mess with Texas. Especially drunkard Texas. :lol:

Hmmmm...my link (which I posted) doesn't link to a subscriber's only page. Weird. Here's the article:

Lawmakers to review bar busts
Public floods TABC with e-mails; legislators to review program

08:53 AM CST on Saturday, March 25, 2006
By PETE SLOVER / The Dallas Morning News

AUSTIN – Public intoxication busts of bar patrons by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission elicited a blast of indignant – even vicious – e-mails and calls from citizens Friday – to the agency, to journalists, and to elected officials who pledged to look into the arrests.

"I'm getting all those same e-mails, the Nazi, Taliban, Gestapo e-mails," said commission spokeswoman Carolyn Beck. "I don't really understand the hateful outrage. I don't understand, 'Die in a fire.' "

That e-mail traffic came after news reports about a stepped-up liquor-law enforcement program that has included arrests this month of patrons sitting drinking at establishments in Irving. Among those arrested was an Arkansas man who drank several beers at a hotel restaurant before he retired for the night to his room in the same hotel.

Ms. Beck said the arrests are part of a larger effort to rein in people who could be a danger to themselves or others – especially by driving drunk. In the six months ending in February, the agency issued 2,281 criminal citations, nearly double the amount for the same period the previous year.

Legislators who oversee the commission said they generally agreed with the agency's increased emphasis on public safety, including the attempt to nab potential drunken drivers early. That's why lawmakers gave the commission more than 100 new employees.

The commission was up for a periodic legislative review last year, meaning it would be eliminated if it wasn't explicitly approved by the Legislature. A complex bill to overhaul the agency and alcohol rules eventually failed, and the commission's life was extended for two years, with the understanding that its fate would be reconsidered in 2007.

But, the lawmakers said, accounts of the arrests suggest the enforcement program should be reviewed before next year, both to check for abuses and to measure its effectiveness. Even if the busts are legal, the question is whether they are the best use of the commission's resources, several said.

"Somebody hanging around the hotel, a little stumbling on the way to their room? I don't think that was what we were focusing on," said Rep. Peggy Hamric, R-Houston, who authored the proposed rewrite of the statute authorizing the agency.

Rep. Kino Flores, chairman of the House Licensing and Administrative Procedures, said he plans to call a meeting next month to examine the alcohol commission's work.

"We're looking at it and we're going to be looking at it: Are we going too far, or do we need to go further?" the Mission Democrat said.

Sen. John Whitmire, D-Houston, was instrumental in getting the increased staffing, as a member of both the powerful Senate Finance Committee and the Criminal Justice Committee, which oversees the alcohol commission.

Although he agreed hearings are merited, he defended the principle of in-bar citations.

"Even though a public drunk is not planning on driving, that could change in an instant," he said. "There is certainly potential danger."

Mr. Whitmire said lawmakers should examine whether the agency, which is funded by fees it collects, is motivated to stricter enforcement by fiscal concerns.

Sen. Chris Harris, a Republican whose district includes Irving, called the arrests in his area "very questionable."

"At first, I was generally totally in agreement with them," he said. "But there are too many stories that demonstrate an abuse of power."

He also questioned the agency's judgment in sending him and other lawmakers lengthy list of media "talking points" Friday, in an e-mail from the commission administrator, Alan Steen.

The senator's displeasure at that perceived breach of protocol was made clear in his reply to Mr. Steen, a one-sentence e-mail that read: "WHO IN THE DAMN HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?"

Texas Restaurant Association officials have declined to comment on the enforcement actions. But the executive director of a national restaurant trade group Friday termed the sweeps "neo-prohibitionism," which he blamed on the Irving-based group Mothers Against Drunk Driving. MADD issued a statement supporting the alcohol commission's efforts.

Mr. Harris said he questions the underlying public intoxication statute, especially provisions that give officers discretion to declare a person drunk without any breathalyzer or objective tests.

Commission officials noted that being drunk in public is against the law and that any place licensed to serve booze is, by law, a public place – including restaurants in dry areas that sell so-called private memberships to let patrons drink.

"We can't ignore somebody who's obviously breaking the law," Ms. Beck said.

E-mail [email protected]

Here in Boise Idaho, is another tale of legislators with head up ass syndrome. They ruled that strip clubs were "public places", so the dancers could not be nude and had to wear thongs and pastys on nipples. So the smart strip club owners said fine, this is a public place huh? An u r saying it's now legal to wear a thong and pastys in public? So they held car washes in broad daylight on the busy street they are located at with women in thongs, pasties and nuthin' else !! Ha ha! Oh, so a place that only allows of age adults who pay to get in is a public place now ?

On 2006-04-03 23:24, Sneakytiki wrote:

...clubs were "public places", so the dancers could not be nude and had to wear thongs and pastys on nipples... So they held car washes in broad daylight on the busy street they are located at with women in thongs, pasties and nuthin' else...

... in southern california some ladies drink on the beach while wearing thongs and pasties... well, typically, anyway...

... texas has some laws that are pretty funny...

... the boozed-n-bust-in-a-bar is beautiful... very texan...

This law baffles me.

It is SO un-Texan.

Texas is, if not the THE, then one of the states that held out the longest in:

1.) Dropping its speed limit to 55 in the (first) oil crunch (which is back up to 70 now anyway, thankyouverymuch)
2.) Raising the drinking age back up to 21. We held out looong, even when threatened to have our highway funding yanked. Actually, we thumbed our noses to the Feds when they did yank it (it was only 5 or 10% of our highway budget). Finally, in '86 ('87?) we caved (yeah, oil and real estate were kinda sinking for us). And the two bars whose bands I booked, The Beach and The South Bank, closed as a result of losing the college beer-drinking dollars. :(

I mean, Texans don't LIKE having anyone (especially the Feds) telling us what to do. But allowing some Texas MADD moms to push a law to arrest you for your POTENTIAL to change your mind in a bar and climb behind a wheel after all? I cannot believe this will stand. How Big Brother is that?! You MIGHT change your mind and drive? Why not arrest somebody for walking into a bar? They might get drunk! And then they might decide to drive. No, arrest them for sitting at home; they might decide to go to a bar. And drink. And drive home.

It's just not very Texan, this law.

Born and raised,
Sixth generation,
Texas Girl

Well dagnabbit, I can remember when my dad would drive us kids though Texas every summer to see our Mema and Gepa in San Antone. Yes, and he was always asking us to get him another beer out of the cooler in the back of the station wagon. It was always Budweiser and it always had this gawd awful taste. Back then you could drink and drive....as long as you weren't drunk. There was no speed limit either, at least on Highway 10....okay, well that's what I heard anyway. Those were the daze my friend. Eatin' potato chips with the warm wind blowin' in our face and hair and our little feet hangin' out the window.

Everything changes....BUT TEXAS? Come on!!

On 2006-04-04 18:10, Formikahini wrote:

...It's just not very Texan, this law...

... it is now...

On 2006-04-04 18:25, Jungle Trader wrote:

...he was always asking us to get him another beer out of the cooler in the back of the station wagon. It was always Budweiser and it always had this gawd awful taste. Back then you could drink and drive....as long as you weren't drunk...

... would your dad be just as cool if he slammed, "not-drunk-just-drinkin", into another carload of kids who had also been munchin' chips while their feet hung out the windows...

... some, who have lost loved ones to drunk drivers, tend to view things differently...

... sizzlin' buzz kill, rasta...

hooray

Who said he was cool alohabros?

On 2006-04-05 08:01, alohabros wrote:
... sizzlin' buzz kill, rasta...

What in the hell does that mean?

honeyboy

On 2006-04-05 10:51, foamy wrote:

On 2006-04-05 08:01, alohabros wrote:
... sizzlin' buzz kill, rasta...

What in the hell does that mean?

That he thinks he is cool.

Y'all are safe . . . for now from Operation Last Call.

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - A controversial Texas program to send undercover agents into bars to arrest drunks has been halted after a firestorm of protest from the public.

The Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission has "temporarily suspended" what it called "Operation Last Call" even though it still believes it was worthwhile, commission spokeswoman Carolyn Beck said on Thursday.

"We understand that everything has room for improvement, this included," she said.

She said most of those arrested in the sting operations had been "dangerously drunk" and might have tried to drive if TABC agents had not busted them.

The TABC has launched an internal investigation of Operation Last Call and a Texas Legislature committee will hold hearings on the program on Monday.

The TABC announced the program in late August but it received little attention at the time.

But recent media reports that drunks were being arrested in bars provoked both ridicule and anger around the world and, perhaps more importantly, complaints from hotels, restaurants and bars in Texas who said it could hurt business.

The program drew support from groups such as Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

The Houston Chronicle found that 1,740 people across the state had been arrested for public intoxication in Operation Last Call.

Can you believe 1,740 arrests for this?

[ Edited by: johnnievelour 2006-04-17 14:05 ]

I TOLD y'all this was very UN-Texan!!

This is NOT how we operate! If ANY state doesn't like The Law tellin' a man when he can and cain't drink, it's TEXAS!

Thank John Wayne, the legislature came to their dang senses!!!