Cityof Laguna Hills Says NO thatch!

My super anal neighbor has, once again, called the city on me. This time they have told me I MUST tear down the palapa. They do not approve of the design/size. I can re do it smaller (No permit req'd) but the lovely gal who runs the department said she doesn't approve the thatch. I asked her if we use the fire retardent treated thatch WITH fire dept cert, would that be OK. She stated No, it's too tacky! I guess the neighbor isn't into Tiki (long thread about that in bilge).

So my question is: are any other TCers in LH having this problem? Any ideas what I can do? Is there some other design to get that tropical look w/o the thatch? Even if I fight it, I don't know if I want to spend the dough to purchase the treated thatch, when I have perfectly fine ones already! I have a ton of bamboo, bac bac, etc... not to mention the palapa materials themselves to cannibalize. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, as I'm tired of going round w/ this issue and have no imagination left! thanx!

I feel for you. I live in such a cool neighborhood. I would see if a local airbrush artist could "paint" palapa onto a material surface such that when up close, it appears palapa, when farther away, it looks like light brown surface.
ie: over plywood, metal etc.

Mahalo

Good luck!

McTiki

I'd demand a citation of code on this. If there is nothing in a law or code book, they can't do anything. This would also allow you to see what the penalty is. It might be a one time $50 fine and you could just live with it. It might never get enforced. So you could find that keep the stuff is not as bad as you think. If it is just some assholes opinion, well, screw that! Err, not literally...

AARRRGGGHHH!!! crappy neighbors are a pain in the@#%.
I read your post in bilge about all you've been through with them. and I almost posted a reply there a few days ago. Because I have had to live with neighbors from hell for years. The first thing I did was put up a fence as tall as permitted, then planted bamboo around the perimeter , then started working on tikifying my yard. that way they couldn't spy on me. What if you did a corrugated metal roof. See Puamana and Lopakas back yard hut! then you could tack the thatch to the inside of it, or even use the thatch somewhere inside the house. You can outsmart them, they're just jealous because it looks like fun at your house, and they cant figure out how to remove that stick up their butt.

[ Edited by: Sophista-tiki 2007-01-11 10:09 ]

Thatch is roofing material just like shingles or tiles or metal. There should be no restrictions.

Here's the City of Laguna Hills Municipal Code: http://ordlink.com/codes/laguna/index.htm

I would guess that your thatch issue would fall under A.3. below.
Also note: B.5. below: A-frames prohibited
Quite the tiki loving town :)

9-40.050 Design considerations.

The following guidelines and standards are in addition to the specific standards contained in the individual land use districts:
A. The following guidelines shall be met:

1. The design shall avoid excessive variety and repetitious use of facade elements, and shall avoid plainness caused by lack of articulation.
2. Proposed signage and landscaping shall be an integral architectural feature which does not overwhelm or dominate the structure or property.
3. Any new building or structure, any addition to an existing building or structure, and the installation or construction of any site improvements shall be designed to create a unified, functional and comprehensive site plan with an integrated architectural theme that is compatible with and will compliment and enhance the subject and surrounding properties.
4. With the intent of protecting sensitive land uses, the proposed design shall promote a harmonious and compatible transition in terms of scale and character between areas of different land uses.
   B. The following standards shall be met:
5. Parking structures shall be architecturally compatible with the primary building and surrounding structures.
6. Lighting shall be stationary and directed away from all adjacent properties, public streets, and rights-of-way.
7. Mechanical equipment, storage, trash areas, and utilities shall be architecturally screened by a solid material from public view. Open fencing, including but not limited to chain link and wrought iron, shall not constitute architectural screening.
8. With the exception of outdoor uses as permitted by Chapter 9-74 of this title and vehicle sales, all commercial and industrial business activity shall occur within an enclosed structure.
9. Nearly vertical roofs (A-frames) and piecemeal mansard roofs (used on a portion of the structure perimeter only) are prohibited. Mansard roofs, if utilized on commercial structures, shall wrap around the entire structure perimeter. (Ord. 98-8 § 2 (part): prior code § 9-24.050)

Fuck the city of Laguna. A couple years ago Martin Cates (Martiki) had the Mayors of Oakland, San Raphael and San Fransisco to declare the Northern Crawl date "official" Days for various things. Gerry Brown who was once the Governor of Calif singed a proclamation declaring it was officially Conga Lounge Day in the City of Oakland. When we had the Send off for the Royal Hawaiian Soccer and I asked the mayor of Laguna to do the same. Her aid said "no, we wont do that". The Royal Hawaiian had been a operating restaurant for almost 50 years. They told us to pound sand.
Fuckers
Al

The neighbors are a pain in the ass and are gunning for you. You will never know why, so you can create your own story for that one.

As to the Palapa, I have to go with swanky on this one. If Code Enforcement (or whatever they are called there) can't cite you with/on/for a specific building code or public ordinance, then you don't have to do anything. And, I beleive you said you are not under any governing association, so that makes it really difficult for the City to just cite you because the neighbors complained.

And, from the ordinace:

"Any new building or structure, any addition to an existing building or structure, and the installation or construction of any site improvements shall be designed to create a unified, functional and comprehensive site plan with an integrated architectural theme that is compatible with and will compliment and enhance the subject and surrounding properties. "

You might could use this bit to your advantage. If you Integrate your design from the houe to the yard to the palapa you could take it to the City Commission (or whatever you have) and plead that the removal of the palapa would bring your yard further out of complaince by breaking the architectual theme.

And, it looks like they will try the roof line thing, flatten the roof line of the palapa. Then it will be more in line with the building code and less likely anybody could do anything about it.

Hang in there, we're rooting for you. I still think you should go on the offensive here. Spend time with your City Officials and see what they can suggest.

"Hey! Everybody! Any of you folks out there know a lawyer that is willing to answer some questions in exchange for some Mai-Tais?" Help the TC ohana and find him some legal help!

We started to take the palapa down, as the winds are shredding the thatch anyways. Of course, the neighbor, Mr Peeper, wanted to know what we were doing. As if he didn't know. We didn't give him the satisfaction. Simply said the winds are wreaking havoc and we want to save the materials from damage. Asshole.

Anyways... thanks for everyone's input!! Cheese and crackers! It's a different sensation to have people support you instead of persecute!

I guess the roof line is A-Line-ish. The roof doesn't reach the ground, but the pitch is pretty severe. We have a call into a County Inspector, not the chick from the City; she's not an actual inspector, just a paper pushing, phone-call bugging, front door lurker (we have about 30 of her business cards, as she leaves 3 EVERY time she comes and we're not home!!) . My Pop's buddy is an Electrical Inspector for the County and thinks if we rebuild under 10x10, we won't need a permit. As far as thatch, he said he's never actually seen anything in the books.

The Mr isn't too sure he wants to switch to a tin roof, as it would be more Carib, less Poly. So I told him we're gonna fight that issue.

Meanwhile, we have removed a lot of landscape from the front yard. It's more in line with a typical neighborhood: plain wrap shrubbery, grass and a redwood. We decided to really piss of the neighbors with full on tropical palms and such and a mess of carved tikis smack in the front (corner house!). That way, we are in keeping with the aesthetic continuation from front to back!

So now our dilemma is how to make the smaller palapa still look tropical, not just a patio caver with thatch. I'm very partial to the Marquesan look. With the steep roof line, sweeping gables and jetting beams. The design was actually loosely based on the hut pictured on the cover of BOT.

We LOVE the idea of planting bamboo! Lined up like warriors, protecting the inner sanctum of the Urban Polynesian Paradise!

Personally I'd love to see a roof made of split & hollowed bamboo overlapped like fired clay roof tiles:

If not, maybe you could use those carved wooden shingles like they do on some Balinese Gazebos?

I LOVE them roofs! I wonder what the policy is on bamboo as a roofing material?
I saw a kobu at the swapmeet a few years back. I wonder if they'd say it was too much of a fire hazard? Anyone seen those? Anyone have one? A lil hut with a roof and no walls. Has a table and benches built into it.
Anyhoo... heres some pix of mine:

As I said, the wind is up. We've begun the tear down. Not to mention the whole back yard is packed into the garage during the winter. Looks pretty sad right now.

On 2007-01-11 15:02, Al-ii wrote:
Fuck the city of Laguna. A couple years ago Martin Cates (Martiki) had the Mayors of Oakland, San Raphael and San Fransisco to declare the Northern Crawl date "official" Days for various things. Gerry Brown who was once the Governor of Calif singed a proclamation declaring it was officially Conga Lounge Day in the City of Oakland. When we had the Send off for the Royal Hawaiian Soccer and I asked the mayor of Laguna to do the same. Her aid said "no, we wont do that". The Royal Hawaiian had been a operating restaurant for almost 50 years. They told us to pound sand.
Fuckers
Al

Different Laguna, actually. The Royal Hawaiian was in Laguna Beach. Having said that, the people in Laguna Hills still sound like a bunch of tools. It's nice to know that not just one, but two cities in Orange County are run by clownshoes (no offense intended to the Scottish Clowndoctors).

So, anyway. The point for my post! Hau 'oli Tiki! We're practically neighbors! The Missus and I just moved to a crappy apartment in Aliso Viejo in September. We should get together for drinks sometime!

[ Edited by: TikiJosh 2007-01-12 14:46 ]

That neighbor needs an attitude adjustment. This book should help you do the adjusting:
Don't Get Mad, Get Even.

also see these synthetic thatch roofing shingles http://www.endureed.com/

http://www.fiberthatch.com/

[ Edited by: thegreenman 2007-01-12 17:50 ]

What a big bummer. I live in a retirement community and we have some pretty strict rules too. One of my neighbors is a PIA, so I just try to stay clear of him. People like that are just not happy with life. I haven't done anything in my front or back yard...I am not a good gardner, but know I can't do anything fun and tiki. I am forced to engage in my polynesian lust behind closed doors.

Hang in there and just remember......all the evil that your neighbor puts out will in time come back to him. :evil:

Don't take down the thatch. To keep the wind from destroying it, you cover it with something like chicken wire. That holds it in place and is not too noticable.

Also, they are going to have to define the angle that means "steep roof."

And, you are right about what size, etc requires a permit. It looks like your structure is not "permanent". If they had to come inspect every gazebo and tent on every property, they need an army.

You get an inspector out there and get him to sign off on it (literally!), and you are all set. No more complaints. You have written permission for your structure.

But also, the whole thing is obviously vague and open for the inspector to interpret. You might get one that says no and another that says yes. They are defining what blends with the aesthetic of the neighborhood. That could mean if you cleaned up your yard and planted flowers you were in trouble in some places! No dead car int he yard! You're out! So, good luck.

Thank you Greenman! I like the guide and plans included on Fiber Thatch's web site! To quote from their comparision table: "A fully packed 40ft. container packed with Fiber Thatch® material cover a roof area of 3696 m²" Hmmmm....Me thinks my entire house, which needs to be reroofed this Spring, should have a new thatch roof! That'd toast their buns.

We may have found an inspector, through my pop's friend, that will come out and show us what to do and then sign off on the whole thing. Pop's friend sent us an e mail containing the name of the brand of cigars the inspector craves.

Again...thanks to all for your support, great ideas and input! I love you guys, man!

When the warm weather returns and the Lagoon Lanai is put back to rights, I will have a lil shin dig! You will all be big guests of honor!

I think that FiberThatch (Grass Thatch Tile) is what Disneyland's using to thatch the roof of the control booth for the Tea Cup ride and the Mad Hatter Shop right now.

I am the California Rep for a new artificial thatch. It has a 20 year warranty for waterproofing, texture and color. It has the look, feel and even rustling sound of natural leaves and is UV inhibited. Designed for use in high heat, humidity or freezing. It can be applied as a shingle for sheathed roof structures or with a fixed rail attached directly to rafters for a natural look. Here is what it looks like. I will have my web site up within a few weeks and displays by this spring.