Tiki Central / General Tiki
Origin of early Trader Vic's logo Tiki found!
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bigbrotiki
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05/12/2007
After just recently bemoaning not having come across the original artefact that was the basis of Trader Vic's (and the Kona Kai, and Sam's Seafood) Maori logo Tiki so far...
... it just came to me (thanks to Swanky) in the form of 1958 LA Home Magazine, where it is attributed to the De Young Museum in San Francisco: ...which off course makes total sense, being the home town of Trader Vic (well, Oakland really). This fact makes me lean more towards the theory that the OTHER Tiki temples "borrowed" the Tiki from the Trader menu. Now we just have to find a photo of it in the exact angle as on the menu above, probably in a DeYoung exhibit catalogue, or a similar SF newspaper Sunday magazine published in the 50s. ...I wonder what the flower pot on his head was all about.. :wink: [ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-12 15:03 ] |
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Cammo
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05/12/2007
Ah, could someone please go down to the de Young museum and photograph every single piece in their entire Oceana exhibit hall? Then post the pix here on TC? Their collection apparently goes back to 1895. They have a New Guinea hall as well, and a great African carvings section too. Please? |
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GatorRob
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05/12/2007
Nice job Swanky and bigbro! I've always wondered where that guy came from. |
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Paipo
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05/12/2007
Was this the magazine that just sold on ebay in a lot of other stuff the other day? I'd love to see some more scans from it if so. It looked like it was a very early "style Guide" for the Polynesian Pop enthusiast? I actually expected this tiki would have been more stylised from its original source (which it was in some versions like the Kona Kai / R-88 mugs) even though it's obviously a tekoteko, but they've copied every detail faithfully, including the feathers on top. Just as well TV's aren't using this design anymore or they'd probably be getting some sort of legal correspondence from the appropriate tribe. [ Edited by: Paipo 2007-05-12 15:54 ] |
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bigbrotiki
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05/12/2007
The lack of stylization comes from the fact that they must have used a photo as a basis for the menu art, so that photo must also be out there somewhere. You are right Paipo, that was that e-bay lot, Swanky tipped me off to it, and I won it. I saw THIS photo in one of the articles... I was disappointed though, that was the ONLY image like it in the whole magazine, and there was just ONE Poly Pop photo in it, this OA Tiki, at an undisclosed location: The rest was all about oh-so-authentic South Seas art and culture. [ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-13 06:49 ] |
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GatorRob
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05/12/2007
Courtesy of humuhumu's blog. Is this the same guy? |
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Swanky
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05/13/2007
I am looking for one of these to make my own real version of their logo. Except you would need tiny spears since these are yam sized. Maybe 16 inches tops. |
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bigbrotiki
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05/13/2007
Guys, you're mixing up all the Tikis here! Swanky is talking about the already known Trader Vic's logo MASK, based on the Miguel Covarrubias rendering from "Arts of the South Seas", (BOT p.247). And the Tiki on Humu's blog photo might not be the exact same one than the one in the article, because OA (Ed Crissman?) made several in that specific style. But this post is concerned with the Maori Tiki shown first, and I would have expected more images of Tikis based on that one, (like other T. V.'s items, or Kona Kai stuff...)? But now that we are free associating, here are two more details from the Trader's menu cover:
...and here is the Tapa pattern from the cover: It is from the Tapa tile retainer wall on the front of the Beverly Hills Trader.... |
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RevBambooBen
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05/13/2007
that tapa looks like it's not the same??? |
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dogbytes
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05/13/2007
i have 2 pins from Trader Vics ~ with that tiki. pix here |
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Bay Park Buzzy
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05/13/2007
Gable figure (teko teko), 19th century |
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Paipo
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05/13/2007
Search the de Young Museum imagebase using "Bergeron", and you'll find 10 authentic Oceanic artifacts gifted to the museum by Trader Vic himself! The plot thickens..... [ Edited by: Paipo 2007-05-13 03:04 ] |
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christiki295
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05/13/2007
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TikiPhil
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05/13/2007
I see the same thing happening today. I can find a lot of articles about the animals of the world's rain forests but nothing about their renderings at the Rainforest Cafe. |
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bigbrotiki
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05/13/2007
Good catch! I concur. Though the face is extremely stylized away from the original, the ear circles on that mug probably come from the original's spirals in the same place, And though the position of the hands is a common Tiki feature, their size and the ridges on the fingers are reminiscent of this Maori Tiki. I have a mug in that style from Tiki Bob's, but it was used by many more places (see Tiki Quest) |
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SoccerTiki
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05/14/2007
Would that book be "Arts of the South Seas", 1946 Museum of Modern Art, New York??? |
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TikiGardener
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05/14/2007
I have an image of a carving that was purchased at Tiki Much simpler, but similar. TG http://www.exotic-tiki-gardens.com [ Edited by: TikiGardener 2007-05-13 22:55 ] |
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cheekytiki
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05/14/2007
I recieved this as a birthday preent from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made. |
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Bay Park Buzzy
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05/14/2007
Little older version of the lamp base: |
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bigbrotiki
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05/14/2007
True, but this is because the posture and the facial Tatoos ARE the standard style that was prevalent in Maori-dom. But yours has fat lips, while the Traders'/DeYoung Museum one has the exposed, ratty-looking teeth that can be found on dried Maori heads, as seen on page 178 of the BOT. That makes for a very different expression.
...by the ASIAN carvers that T.V. gets their stuff from nowadays.
I am confused about this question. Are you saying it IS in that book? If so, I can't find it in there... ...No!, not THIS, but THAT :roll: : In this impressive book shelf we find the titles "Oceanic Sculpture","Art of the South Pacific Islands","Folk Art of Oceania","Native art of the Pacific something","The Arts of The South Pacific", and lots more Primitive Art books. I don't even have half of these. Nor do I have that lamp... BUT back to the Logo Tiki at hand: He made his first appearance as early as 1955, (that is the copyright on the Traders Beverly Hills menu), when most of these books weren't around yet. So the fact that he is NOT in the two first mentioned, early Oceanic Art books makes it very likely that he was either If a local TCer would go to the De Young museum library/archive, and search and ask them for the history of that Tiki and any pre '55 catalogs/publications, we might find out more. [ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-14 11:30 ] |
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Cammo
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05/15/2007
(hint hint) de Young Museum at Golden Gate Park Hours Admission First Tuesday of each month FREE. Special exhibition fees, if any, still apply. Muni riders with Fast Pass or transfer receive a $2 discount. FAMSF Members are always FREE. Not a Member? Join today! 24-Hour Hotline |
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POCKETIKI
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05/15/2007
OOooh! You big tease! Sins of the flesh...we are weak...STOP this devilry at once! Now concentrate Trader Jim....where did you put those 'South Sea Arts' books, you've got some serious research to do! Just one more peep first? Oh, go on then, but you'd better be quick!...I'm done! Trader Jim - Make mine a Trader Vic's Mai-Tai...with embellishments! |
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VampiressRN
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05/15/2007
I would be happy to go to the museum and do the research, unfortunately I can't do it until Saturday, June 9th. My weekends are full until then and that annoying day-job takes up my weekdays. If nobody else is able to get there before me, then count me in on the assignment. I would need some research guidance, but could easily spend the day there Saturday & Sunday as needed in order to find the necessary information. I'll stay posted here to see if anyone else beats me to the punch. I have never done any research for the board and know I would learn a lot. :) |
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christiki295
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05/15/2007
Excellent. Now when I look at these candles, I will be happy that the historical origins continue today. No Devolution! |
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bigbrotiki
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05/15/2007
That is debatable. To me it is another example of how Asian Import Tikis miss the point: The facial features are less square, less blocky (i.e. less primitive) than the original, and more rounded off and organic. The small nose, the precise eyes, and the tapering off to the chin makes it more like a human face. These carvers simply CANNOT carve "primitive", even fake primitive, because they spent their life carving the elegant, smooth forms and lines of Buddhist sculptures. [ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-14 19:43 ] |
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jpmartdog
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05/15/2007
well said bigbro! |
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cheekytiki
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05/15/2007
Sven, I totally agree, I was using it as an example of how the design had been evolved, devolved or watered down. |
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bigbrotiki
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05/15/2007
I know. The general public can't see the difference, and the stuff looks professional, is made with tropical wood, AND, most importantly, is cheap.
Thanks Vampiress, it actually is fun when you have a purpose. Basically the main thing you are looking for is the very photo that was used for this menu: It must have been published DURING, or BEFORE the year 1955. Print this menu out so you can match the perspective of the photo. So you ask the archivist/librarian for A.) Any catalogs or flyers of their exhibits up to that (and including) that year ..and search them for our Tiki photo. When found, make a photocopy of it and note publication title and date, and post it here, :) Also, please get the provenance (history) of the original Tiki for us. PS: When looking through the material, BACKTRACK by years, starting with 1955. I don't know how long the museum has been in existence, but it is unlikely that this photo appeared anytime before 1945, and much more likely it was published closer to its usage date on the menu (1955). [ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-15 10:37 ] |
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Fugu
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05/15/2007
I hope that I'm not derailing the thread, but I think that the swizzle stick/ cocktail pick might be modeled after a Trobriand spatula handle. This image is from Wingert's "Art of the Sourth Pacific Islands" (plate 54) and it looks very similar to the menu imagery (with a few modifications to the figure and spirals beneath the figure). |
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Erika
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05/15/2007
Two bits of advice:
From the same contact page, here's the library's number (no e-mail address there, by the way): |
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bigbrotiki
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05/15/2007
Very good. I bet the Trader's donations helped getting him the permission to use that image. And he probably was a paying member of the museum, too. Then again, it might just have been one of his architect's designers who clipped it from a magazine and never bothered asking where it came from. |
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SilverLine
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03/21/2008
Bump. Anybody been to this museum yet?? Any more info? I just found something very similar and am VERY interested in more info. |
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Tiki Royale
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03/24/2008
Here's a shot i took of the Maori tiki from the de Young. Sorry for the crappy photo but all I had was my phone. If I remember correctly he stands about 2.5-3 feet tall. The carving has great detail and the wood has a beautiful patina. Here's another interesting image I came across. It's dated 1905. Aloha, |
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bigbrotiki
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03/24/2008
Wow how cool. It's sitting there for everyone to see! Worship this arch Tiki, oh bay area Tikiphiles! Silverline, I still think yours are from your local Kona Kai. Sure, this guy WAS used by the Trader Vic designers, but look at the Kona Kai (Hale Tiki) rendering by Irving Weisenberg BOT P.54, he clearly based it on this guy...and I don't think he ripped of the Trader's (even though it was there first), I believe he took it from a Maori art book, and Armet & Davis possibly sent the Tiki's photo from it as reference to the various Marriots in the country. |
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bLOCKhEAD
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03/25/2008
I got this bloke at home I think he looks close, do any other tiki's have masks tattoo's or only the one's from NZ
[ Edited by: bLOCKhEAD 2008-03-24 18:28 ] |
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Pakalolo Man
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03/25/2008
Tiki Royale - thanks for posting that pic - I'm going to go check out the de Young for a closer look as soon as I can... will gather more photos then |
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SilverLine
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03/25/2008
I agree (how could I not?). The similarity is strong and they look to have the right amount of age to them. I believe we are seeing the start of a trend here in which Kona Kai decor will be coming up for sale again as the original scavengers pass away and their possessions return to the open market. Vigilance and patience are a hunters best friends. Our Trader Vic's went out with a whimper much later then the Kona Kai, and I think all the Trader's decor went back the the motherland. It is WAY cool to see these photos of the ORIGINAL inspiration for these classic logo-tikis! MORE PHOTOS PLEASE! |
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bigbrotiki
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03/25/2008
Well Mr. Blockhead, could you tell us where you obtained this Tiki from? Was it perhaps from the Trader Vic's Warehouse sale? |
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bLOCKhEAD
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03/25/2008
Of course Mr bigbrotiki you sir are quite correct, picked him up at the tv sale, got to be remake i'm sure. The little bloke on the left was picked up by me on trip to NZ. So being new to tiki stuff tell me are the nz tiki the only ones that have the mask tattoo's |
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TikiGardener
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07/30/2008
Umm I didn't get every single piece, but heres a start of what me and my daughter snapped while breezing through... Sorry but I didn't have time to get descriptions etc, so you're gonna have to go there yourself! But enjoy the eye candy! More to follow. http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=29278&forum=2&start=last&0 [ Edited by: TikiGardener 2008-07-30 12:08 ] |
Pages: 1 39 replies