Origin of early Trader Vic's logo Tiki found!

After just recently bemoaning not having come across the original artefact that was the basis of Trader Vic's (and the Kona Kai, and Sam's Seafood) Maori logo Tiki so far...

On 2007-04-18 13:07, bigbrotiki wrote:
The Tiki design used for this mug has a rather compelling Polynesian pop history, too. It was used by several important Tiki Temples, who either based it on a original Maori Tiki from an Oceanic Art book (which I have not found yet !), or, as it was common in Poly pop, swiped it from each other.

I venture to say that Trader Vic used it first, on this menu:

..and it became the un-official Trader Vic logo Tiki, as they did not use any other Tiki design (and its variations) as much as him:
As table lamps (BOT p.6), On other menus (p.89), as swizzle stick, as cuff links (p.93), and most notably on their entrance doors and for the famous Tiki stem glass (p.95) (...did I leave any out?)

Then, also, the venerable Kona Kai chain used a variation of this guy, based on an Armet & Davis rendering, as can be seen on BOT page 143

So he carries a lot of Poly pop history mana. :)

... it just came to me (thanks to Swanky) in the form of 1958 LA Home Magazine, where it is attributed to the De Young Museum in San Francisco:

...which off course makes total sense, being the home town of Trader Vic (well, Oakland really). This fact makes me lean more towards the theory that the OTHER Tiki temples "borrowed" the Tiki from the Trader menu. Now we just have to find a photo of it in the exact angle as on the menu above, probably in a DeYoung exhibit catalogue, or a similar SF newspaper Sunday magazine published in the 50s.

...I wonder what the flower pot on his head was all about.. :wink:

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-12 15:03 ]

Ah, could someone please go down to the de Young museum and photograph every single piece in their entire Oceana exhibit hall? Then post the pix here on TC? Their collection apparently goes back to 1895.

They have a New Guinea hall as well, and a great African carvings section too.

Please?

Nice job Swanky and bigbro! I've always wondered where that guy came from.

Was this the magazine that just sold on ebay in a lot of other stuff the other day? I'd love to see some more scans from it if so. It looked like it was a very early "style Guide" for the Polynesian Pop enthusiast?

I actually expected this tiki would have been more stylised from its original source (which it was in some versions like the Kona Kai / R-88 mugs) even though it's obviously a tekoteko, but they've copied every detail faithfully, including the feathers on top. Just as well TV's aren't using this design anymore or they'd probably be getting some sort of legal correspondence from the appropriate tribe.

myspace

[ Edited by: Paipo 2007-05-12 15:54 ]

The lack of stylization comes from the fact that they must have used a photo as a basis for the menu art, so that photo must also be out there somewhere.

You are right Paipo, that was that e-bay lot, Swanky tipped me off to it, and I won it. I saw THIS photo in one of the articles...

...and needed to have it, like anything I see that has the mid-century modern/primitive juxtaposition in it.

I was disappointed though, that was the ONLY image like it in the whole magazine, and there was just ONE Poly Pop photo in it, this OA Tiki, at an undisclosed location:

The rest was all about oh-so-authentic South Seas art and culture.
Which again proves my whole theory about WHY Polynesian Pop/Tiki Style was not recognized in its own heyday. To the design critics which wrote for the media the fake stuff was just bad taste, so this "Taste Police" ignored it whenever they could. These kind of articles on primitive art inspired the people to seek out and build Tiki temples, but the results of that inspiration were NOT noted or reported...the BOT had to do that, first, but 40 years after.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-13 06:49 ]

Courtesy of humuhumu's blog. Is this the same guy?

I am looking for one of these to make my own real version of their logo. Except you would need tiny spears since these are yam sized. Maybe 16 inches tops.

Guys, you're mixing up all the Tikis here! Swanky is talking about the already known Trader Vic's logo MASK, based on the Miguel Covarrubias rendering from "Arts of the South Seas", (BOT p.247). And the Tiki on Humu's blog photo might not be the exact same one than the one in the article, because OA (Ed Crissman?) made several in that specific style.

But this post is concerned with the Maori Tiki shown first, and I would have expected more images of Tikis based on that one, (like other T. V.'s items, or Kona Kai stuff...)?

But now that we are free associating, here are two more details from the Trader's menu cover:

This is a swizzle/cocktail pic similar to the paddle used on the cover...

...and here is the Tapa pattern from the cover:

It is from the Tapa tile retainer wall on the front of the Beverly Hills Trader....

that tapa looks like it's not the same???

i have 2 pins from Trader Vics ~ with that tiki. pix here

Gable figure (teko teko), 19th century
wood, paint and shell
25 3/8 x 6 x 5 1/4 (64.5 x 15.2 x 13.3 cm)
California Midwinter International Exposition 5523

color photo

Search the de Young Museum imagebase using "Bergeron", and you'll find 10 authentic Oceanic artifacts gifted to the museum by Trader Vic himself! The plot thickens.....
:tiki:

myspace

[ Edited by: Paipo 2007-05-13 03:04 ]

On 2007-05-12 12:50, bigbrotiki wrote:
After just recently bemoaning not having come across the original artefact that was the basis of Trader Vic's (and the Kona Kai, and Sam's Seafood) Maori logo Tiki so far...

On 2007-04-18 13:07, bigbrotiki wrote:
I venture to say that Trader Vic used it first, on this menu:

..and it became the un-official Trader Vic logo Tiki, as they did not use any other Tiki design (and its variations) as much as him:
As table lamps (BOT p.6), On other menus (p.89), as swizzle stick, as cuff links (p.93), and most notably on their entrance doors and for the famous Tiki stem glass (p.95) (...did I leave any out?)

Then, also, the venerable Kona Kai chain used a variation of this guy, based on an Armet & Davis rendering, as can be seen on BOT page 143

So he carries a lot of Poly pop history mana. :)

Is also the basis for one of the Trader Dick's tiki mugs?
The mugs which are omnipresent on Ebay/
Ebay link

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - Shortened URL - 2007-05-13 23:30 ]

The rest was all about oh-so-authentic South Seas art and culture.
Which again proves my whole theory about WHY Polynesian Pop/Tiki Style was not recognized in its own heyday. To the design critics which wrote for the media the fake stuff was just bad taste, so this "Taste Police" ignored it whenever they could. These kind of articles on primitive art inspired the people to seek out and build Tiki temples, but the results of that inspiration were NOT noted or reported...the BOT had to do that, first, but 40 years after.

I see the same thing happening today. I can find a lot of articles about the animals of the world's rain forests but nothing about their renderings at the Rainforest Cafe.

On 2007-05-13 10:02, christiki295 wrote:
Is also the basis for one of the Trader Dick's tiki mugs?

Good catch! I concur. Though the face is extremely stylized away from the original, the ear circles on that mug probably come from the original's spirals in the same place, And though the position of the hands is a common Tiki feature, their size and the ridges on the fingers are reminiscent of this Maori Tiki.

I have a mug in that style from Tiki Bob's, but it was used by many more places (see Tiki Quest)

On 2007-04-18 13:07, bigbrotiki wrote:
The Tiki design used for this mug has a rather compelling Polynesian pop history, too. It was used by several important Tiki Temples, who either based it on a original Maori Tiki from an Oceanic Art book (which I have not found yet !), or, as it was common in Poly pop, swiped it from each other.

Would that book be "Arts of the South Seas", 1946 Museum of Modern Art, New York???

I have an image of a carving that was purchased at Tiki
Gardens that looks similar this guy.

Much simpler, but similar.

TG

http://www.exotic-tiki-gardens.com

[ Edited by: TikiGardener 2007-05-13 22:55 ]

I recieved this as a birthday preent from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made.
It's obviously based on the same Tiki design, but you can see the design has been even further diluted

Little older version of the lamp base:

On 2007-05-13 22:54, TikiGardener wrote:
I have an image of a carving that was purchased at Tiki Gardens that looks similar this guy.

True, but this is because the posture and the facial Tatoos ARE the standard style that was prevalent in Maori-dom. But yours has fat lips, while the Traders'/DeYoung Museum one has the exposed, ratty-looking teeth that can be found on dried Maori heads, as seen on page 178 of the BOT.

That makes for a very different expression.

Also, the three/four finger hands on the Tiki Gardens one are more common in Maori Tikis, while this guy's full five finger hands are not seen that often, but all the TV Tiki copies also seem to have them.

On 2007-05-14 03:06, cheekytiki wrote:
I recieved this as a birthday present from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made.
It's obviously based on the same Tiki design, but you can see the design has been even further diluted....

...by the ASIAN carvers that T.V. gets their stuff from nowadays.

On 2007-05-13 22:05, SoccerTiki wrote:
Would that book be "Arts of the South Seas", 1946 Museum of Modern Art, New York???

I am confused about this question. Are you saying it IS in that book? If so, I can't find it in there...
I thought it would be clear that "Arts of The South Seas" would be the first book where I would look, as well as "Oceanic Art" (1954), and I would have found it in their pages. These two books were used quite a bit by 50s/60s Tiki temple designers and Tiki carvers, because they were among the earliest out there when the trend took off. But by the end of the 50s/early 60s there were many more Oceanic/primitive art books available, just look at this:

...No!, not THIS, but THAT :roll: :

In this impressive book shelf we find the titles "Oceanic Sculpture","Art of the South Pacific Islands","Folk Art of Oceania","Native art of the Pacific something","The Arts of The South Pacific", and lots more Primitive Art books. I don't even have half of these. Nor do I have that lamp...
Is there anything else? Oh yeah, the above photo also proves that research CAN be fun, and that if you were a primitive/modern art coinoisseur in the 60s, you had nekkid chicks hanging out around your pad.

BUT back to the Logo Tiki at hand: He made his first appearance as early as 1955, (that is the copyright on the Traders Beverly Hills menu), when most of these books weren't around yet. So the fact that he is NOT in the two first mentioned, early Oceanic Art books makes it very likely that he was either
A) in an early 50s DeYoung Museum catalog,
B) in an SF newspaper Magazine article about the museum or the Oceanic Art trend, or
C) even owned (and later bestowed to the museum) by the Trader himself.

If a local TCer would go to the De Young museum library/archive, and search and ask them for the history of that Tiki and any pre '55 catalogs/publications, we might find out more.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-14 11:30 ]

(hint hint)

de Young Museum at Golden Gate Park
Hours & Admissions

Hours
Tuesday through Sunday, 9:30 a.m. to 5:15 p.m., Fridays until 8:45 p.m. (selected galleries open 5 to 8:45 p.m.)

Admission
Adults $10, Seniors 65 and over $7, Youths 13-17 $6, College Students with ID $6, Children 12 and under FREE.

First Tuesday of each month FREE. Special exhibition fees, if any, still apply.

Muni riders with Fast Pass or transfer receive a $2 discount.

FAMSF Members are always FREE. Not a Member? Join today!

24-Hour Hotline
415.863.3330

...But by the end of the 50s/early 60s there were many more Oceanic/primitive art books available, just look at this:

...No!, not THIS, but THAT :roll: :

OOooh! You big tease! Sins of the flesh...we are weak...STOP this devilry at once! Now concentrate Trader Jim....where did you put those 'South Sea Arts' books, you've got some serious research to do! Just one more peep first? Oh, go on then, but you'd better be quick!...I'm done!

Trader Jim - Make mine a Trader Vic's Mai-Tai...with embellishments!

I would be happy to go to the museum and do the research, unfortunately I can't do it until Saturday, June 9th. My weekends are full until then and that annoying day-job takes up my weekdays. If nobody else is able to get there before me, then count me in on the assignment. I would need some research guidance, but could easily spend the day there Saturday & Sunday as needed in order to find the necessary information. I'll stay posted here to see if anyone else beats me to the punch. I have never done any research for the board and know I would learn a lot. :)

On 2007-05-14 03:06, cheekytiki wrote:

I recieved this as a birthday present from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made.
It's obviously based on the same Tiki design, but you can see the design has been even further diluted

Excellent. Now when I look at these candles, I will be happy that the historical origins continue today. No Devolution!

That is debatable. To me it is another example of how Asian Import Tikis miss the point: The facial features are less square, less blocky (i.e. less primitive) than the original, and more rounded off and organic. The small nose, the precise eyes, and the tapering off to the chin makes it more like a human face. These carvers simply CANNOT carve "primitive", even fake primitive, because they spent their life carving the elegant, smooth forms and lines of Buddhist sculptures.
Sorry Jamie, I wanted to avoid becoming specific because I didn't want to poopoo your present, but while to some it might just be another phase of Tiki evolution (1950s: Pacific Tikis too expensive, Americans carve them---2000s" American Tikis too expensive: Asians carve them), to me Poly-Asian carvings are another example of Tiki devolution. :( :)

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-14 19:43 ]

well said bigbro!

Sven, I totally agree, I was using it as an example of how the design had been evolved, devolved or watered down.
Unfortunately this is the case with so many designs now, but I think as a thread it could be really interseting to see how different Tiki designs have changed through the years through creative "Chinese Whispers".
With the problem of the SE Asian imports, I actually told Trader Vics Designers about this a while back when they were here, but they didn't see the problem with it.

I know. The general public can't see the difference, and the stuff looks professional, is made with tropical wood, AND, most importantly, is cheap.

On 2007-05-14 18:48, VampiressRN wrote:
I would be happy to go to the museum and do the research.....If nobody else is able to get there before me, then count me in on the assignment. I would need some research guidance......I'll stay posted here to see if anyone else beats me to the punch. I have never done any research for the board and know I would learn a lot. :)

Thanks Vampiress, it actually is fun when you have a purpose. Basically the main thing you are looking for is the very photo that was used for this menu:

It must have been published DURING, or BEFORE the year 1955. Print this menu out so you can match the perspective of the photo.

So you ask the archivist/librarian for

A.) Any catalogs or flyers of their exhibits up to that (and including) that year
B.) Any press clippings from magazines or newspapers about their Museum up to that (and including) that year

..and search them for our Tiki photo. When found, make a photocopy of it and note publication title and date, and post it here, :)

Also, please get the provenance (history) of the original Tiki for us.
All this provided they have a library, and you can access it. Call them to find out. Just say you are a Tiki scholar working on a term paper. :)

PS: When looking through the material, BACKTRACK by years, starting with 1955. I don't know how long the museum has been in existence, but it is unlikely that this photo appeared anytime before 1945, and much more likely it was published closer to its usage date on the menu (1955).

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-15 10:37 ]

I hope that I'm not derailing the thread, but I think that the swizzle stick/ cocktail pick might be modeled after a Trobriand spatula handle. This image is from Wingert's "Art of the Sourth Pacific Islands" (plate 54) and it looks very similar to the menu imagery (with a few modifications to the figure and spirals beneath the figure).

On 2007-05-14 18:48, VampiressRN wrote:
I would need some research guidance

Two bits of advice:

1. Be ready to tell the librarian (or anyone at the museum whom you end up talking about it with) the accession number of the piece: 5523.

2. You might want to also ask check with the museum's rights and reproductions office. They're the ones who would grant permission for pictures to be published in books or elsewhere---they might have a record of where (in what publications) a certain work has been reproduced. (Some museums do, some don't---and some only partly do, like keeping track only of appearances in scholarly publications.) Here's contact info from the museum website (note: there's also an e-mail address there for a specific person):
   Photo Services
   Image rights and reproductions
   415.750.3602

From the same contact page, here's the library's number (no e-mail address there, by the way):
Library
415.750.7603

Very good. I bet the Trader's donations helped getting him the permission to use that image. And he probably was a paying member of the museum, too. Then again, it might just have been one of his architect's designers who clipped it from a magazine and never bothered asking where it came from.

Bump.

Anybody been to this museum yet?? Any more info? I just found something very similar and am VERY interested in more info.

Here's a shot i took of the Maori tiki from the de Young. Sorry for the crappy photo but all I had was my phone. If I remember correctly he stands about 2.5-3 feet tall. The carving has great detail and the wood has a beautiful patina.

Here's another interesting image I came across. It's dated 1905.

Aloha,
:tiki:

Wow how cool. It's sitting there for everyone to see! Worship this arch Tiki, oh bay area Tikiphiles!

Silverline, I still think yours are from your local Kona Kai. Sure, this guy WAS used by the Trader Vic designers, but look at the Kona Kai (Hale Tiki) rendering by Irving Weisenberg BOT P.54, he clearly based it on this guy...and I don't think he ripped of the Trader's (even though it was there first), I believe he took it from a Maori art book, and Armet & Davis possibly sent the Tiki's photo from it as reference to the various Marriots in the country.

I got this bloke at home I think he looks close, do any other tiki's have masks tattoo's or only the one's from NZ

[ Edited by: bLOCKhEAD 2008-03-24 18:28 ]

Tiki Royale - thanks for posting that pic - I'm going to go check out the de Young for a closer look as soon as I can... will gather more photos then

On 2008-03-24 12:05, bigbrotiki wrote:
Silverline, I still think yours are from your local Kona Kai.

I agree (how could I not?). The similarity is strong and they look to have the right amount of age to them. I believe we are seeing the start of a trend here in which Kona Kai decor will be coming up for sale again as the original scavengers pass away and their possessions return to the open market. Vigilance and patience are a hunters best friends.

Our Trader Vic's went out with a whimper much later then the Kona Kai, and I think all the Trader's decor went back the the motherland.

It is WAY cool to see these photos of the ORIGINAL inspiration for these classic logo-tikis! MORE PHOTOS PLEASE!

Well Mr. Blockhead, could you tell us where you obtained this Tiki from? Was it perhaps from the Trader Vic's Warehouse sale?

On 2008-03-24 20:52, bigbrotiki wrote:
Well Mr. Blockhead, could you tell us where you obtained this Tiki from? Was it perhaps from the Trader Vic's Warehouse sale?

Of course Mr bigbrotiki you sir are quite correct, picked him up at the tv sale, got to be remake i'm sure. The little bloke on the left was picked up by me on trip to NZ. So being new to tiki stuff tell me are the nz tiki the only ones that have the mask tattoo's

On 2007-05-12 14:54, Cammo wrote:
Ah, could someone please go down to the de Young museum and photograph every single piece in their entire Oceana exhibit hall? Then post the pix here on TC? Their collection apparently goes back to 1895.

They have a New Guinea hall as well, and a great African carvings section too.

Please?

Umm I didn't get every single piece, but heres a start of what me and my daughter snapped while breezing through...

Sorry but I didn't have time to get descriptions etc, so you're gonna have to go there yourself! But enjoy the eye candy! More to follow.

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=29278&forum=2&start=last&0

[ Edited by: TikiGardener 2008-07-30 12:08 ]