Trader Vic's Lounge in BH

On 2007-05-08 13:48, bigbrotiki wrote:

I knew it was gonna be an uphill battle when I had to spell the name "Don The Beachcomber" to the LA Times reporter:
(Quote)
That doesn't sound good.

But here is our chance to help them do the right thing. Trader Vic's will build a new location. By all rights it should represent the old Trader Vic's and then some. Thats where we can all make our voices heard. Let's have something like a "My ideal Trader Vic's would look like and contain" contest because I'm sure we have some great ideas among us.

bigbrotiki is right about watching what we write. I can certainly attest to that.

---

     Life is a state of mind  

[ Edited by: Ojaitimo 2007-05-08 15:07 ]

On 2007-05-08 14:32, mattesq wrote:
If Trader Vics makes sense in L.A., they'll open another restaurant, hopefully in a more appropriate area than Beverly Hills, and hopefully maintaining many of the elements of the original restaurant.

Our whole point here is, and the big shame about it, that it will never look like a classic, vintage Tiki lounge, (if not opened in an original old location like the Dallas one.)

Mattesq, you make good points, but here are my thoughts:

1. It's quite common for development plans to be altered to accomodate an existing structure if the community deems it important. The community didn't get to have their say; Hilton made it a moot point. It was their prerogative, absolutely, but it stinks, and it speaks to a lack of sensitivity to their community.

2. None of this really has anything to do with the supposed unprofitability of Trader Vic's -- they wanted it out of the way. No restaurant on this planet would be able to compete with the dollars that a condo tower could bring, and Hilton didn't want to have to alter their plans. It's entirely possible that Trader Vic's could have been made reasonably profitable, but the effort just wasn't made, because that wasn't Hilton's agenda. I just don't consider the source -- Hilton -- to be credible re: Trader Vic's profitability.

Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Marilyn Monroe, President Kennedy,....oh the list can go on and on, but none had dined at Trader Vics Lounge. This is, in my humble opinion the main point(for me, at least). Destroy something with cultural history and a great background/enviroment, and move it to an entirely different(don't forget smaller) location, defeats all that history and the original architecture all together. There is no place left with that kind of stigmata in California, period. The decent thing that the Hilton could have done is have had a farewell weekend to the old location and mention that they are not indeeed gone for good, but relocating Trader Vic's into the Hotel main building. Maybe even throw in some prices from the 1955 grand opening date of the original location**(1 weekend only)**, and people may not have felt as bitter as they are now. Nobody here can say that would have been bad...Hell, they GAVE away Mai Tais apparently for FREE on the Grand Opening of the Trader Vic's Lounge....But it is all done, and I am cleaning my hands of the dirty mess that the Hilton passed off to the public. And for the record, I will NOT be going to show support by buying anything at the new lounge in an act of my own protest. They can sell out, but I won't!

This whole episode is sad. Some of the venting on TC is kinda sad too, but understandable. The thing is, it's a little puzzling to me exactly what the community, or even just our corner of the community, would want the owners to do.

Purely from the perspective of OUR interests, the ideal thing would have been if the owners could have been convinced to WANT to keep running TVics there. But the owners apparently decided they wanted to use the site for something else, whether the reason was profitability, or Uranus passing through Orion's belt, or whatever. Supposing that the community successfully imposed some kind of restriction or designation on the property, what would that mean? The owners have to run the restaurant there in perpetuity, against their wishes? Or they may sell, but any buyer would also be required to run a restaurant there? And not just "a restaurant", but specifically Trader Vic's? Or...?

In the discussion about HOW they closed it, there definitely has been a genuine element of, "gee, they didn't even give us a chance to have one last celebration there." I personally felt the same way. But to be honest the discussion has also had a major element of, "gee, they didn't even give us a chance to really gunk up their plans." If you look at some of the rather extreme talk on TC both before and after the closure, it seems to validate the method the owners chose. When people talk about staging protests and even (jokingly I hope?) theft, vandalism, and destruction, it makes a stealthy course of action seem like the only practical option. Maybe the owners were conscious of this talk or maybe they weren't, but it's hard to imagine why they would want to extend the opportunities for gunking up from an increasingly confrontational community.

The place was a true gem though, and I'm terribly sad I'll never see it again. The neon sign was a classic, as was much of the exterior detailing. I didn't catch - has anyone heard if the artifacts from the restaurant are going back to the legendary warehouse?

-Randy

[i]On 2007-05-08 17:22, aquarj wrote:

But to be honest the discussion has also had a major element of, "gee, they didn't even give us a chance to really gunk up their plans."

True. However, development plans are not necessarily automatic. That is why state law provides for Environmental Impact Reports and there are federal, state and municipal historical designations.

The owner also deprived usfrom having the ability to raise public consciousness to "shame" him into having the architect from incorporating the beloved Trader Vics into the new design, as was done with the Derby on Los Feliz.

Reminds me of Cardinal Mahony virtually destroying St. Vibiana's in order to claim that it was too much in disrepair to be saved - in order to build the Rog Mahal on the hill.

Well, they haven't razed the original building yet, right?

It's very freaking simple now: Take the original building and carefully relocate it on another lot--change its location but otherwise leave it exactly as it was.

What do you guys think?

Good idea, but probably unnecessary.
However, they should include the contents for the new location.
I would be just as happy if it opened on the 3rd Street Promenade or some other heavy pedestrian area. The MaiKai on Ocean in Santa Monica seems very profitable.

The next franchise owner will have to make a business decision as to where to put the investment, although I've heard scuttlebut it will remain in Beverly Hills. I did not hear who the new owner would be or whether it would be a single person or an investment organization.

On 2007-05-08 13:15, mattesq wrote:
I loved Trader Vic's as much as anyone, but I think some people are being a bit delusional about the profitability of the restaurant. I live down the street and have frequented the place for while. It was rarely packed, especially on weekdays. I do wish that there had been some warning prior to the closing and that is the main thing that irks me about this. I am actually quite excited to check out the lounge, and am glad that I can still grab a mai tai and look at a few tikis when I get the itch, which is a lot more than I was expecting.

Did the owner of the hotel own the lease? I think not.
The hotel owner wanted to shut down TV to eliminate a possible obstacle to tearing down the hotel.

Don't believe a word of it. It is just BS offered in a failed attempt to justify its closing.

"Tiki-philes carrying a torch for Trader Vic's"

"I say to descend on [Trader Vic's] en masse and strip it of everything and then burn it down," wrote one contributor on the Tikicentral Internet message board. "THEN folks would think twice before closing their tiki bars."

Am I the only one that thought that was a clever title that said somethign other than what you read on first glance?

Now we are burning down our own tiki bars in protest... If there had only been some sort of fire picture in the article...

On 2007-05-09 01:55, procinema29 wrote:
Well, they haven't razed the original building yet, right?

It's very freaking simple now: Take the original building and carefully relocate it on another lot--change its location but otherwise leave it exactly as it was.

What do you guys think?

This is exactly what they should do. The Trader Vic's Lounge will be there until they build the tower and tear down that part of the hotel. Right? Who knows for how long it will be there but the Hilton did put in the lounge so there is some interest there.
Trader Vic's must see the historical value in keeping the original Trader Vic's you would think.
It can carefully be moved like the Derby was when it was next to the Ambassador and ended up a block away. That would be the same place and better if it were restored to the original look not the watered down look that Trader Vic's had changed to over the years

My boss gave me this picture of the land before Trader Vic's or the Hilton was there. After they razed the speedway here there was a nursery
on the corner after WW2. He would stop there and buy fresh mint for drinks until the hotel and Trader Vic's were built.

Instead of boycotting the lounge lets show Trader Vic's and the Hilton what Tiki Central members think and give them encouragement and our help to make this possible.

[ Edited by: Ojaitimo 2007-05-09 18:06 ]

On 2007-05-09 01:55, procinema29 wrote:
Well, they haven't razed the original building yet, right?

It's very freaking simple now: Take the original building and carefully relocate it on another lot--change its location but otherwise leave it exactly as it was.

What do you guys think?

Thats how I got a good part of the Kahiki.
They moved, it put it in a warehouse, then sold it all off.
Only after it had been beat all to hell.
I don't think all the kings horses and all the kings men could have put
the Kahiki back together again.

.

What incentive did they have for running the restaurant responsibly and doing the basic things one should do to be profitable? Taking a hit on a restaurant is chump change compared to how much they'll be able to make with it out of the way. The info I have heard from some "ask not to be identified"-type sources at Trader Vic's is that Hilton simply wasn't even trying to make it work.

It seems Trader Vic's wasn't keeping up on their end of the bargain either. Numerous posts before the closing comlained of bad food and service at the Bev Hills location and watered down retro-lounge new locations. TV's is a poorly run business, just take a look at their website. An smattering of mugs, syrups, rums, t-shirts, etc. could be sold to us eager to eat up all that crap. To be even cooler they could do limited editions. The restraunts could've updated their menus with fresher, more relevant food fare and outreached to the tiki community by hosting after parties for art events and the like. But they don't. They keep talking about how they invented the Mai Tai. The story is impressive, but c'mon. I invented a few drinks myself, do I get wooden leg too?

The company is under the delusion that they are still an upper-eschelon, $100 just-to-sit-down establishment. The real reason anybody goes there is
A. for the drinks
B. Because they've been going there forever and feel familiar with the menu (because it hasn't changed since 1960)

In agreement HumuHumu, I think us TikiPhiles need to stop making apologies for establishments that don't reciprocate our love. TV's 90210 further kicked us in the groin to add insult to injury by raising the cocktail prices. They better let me do a cannonball from a balcony for what they want for a navy grog.

The ONLY THING TRADER VIC'S HAS LEFT ARE THE COCKTAILS...after all, Bahooka is cool to look at, but the food and drinks suck. No matter how womb-like an authentic tiki temple is, if the fare is sub-par, the enchantment "melts like ice cream on the altar of the sun (Jets to Brazil)."

On 2007-05-10 10:51, Registered Astronaut wrote:
The ONLY THING TRADER VIC'S HAS LEFT ARE THE COCKTAILS...after all, Bahooka is cool to look at, but the food and drinks suck.

I beg to differ! I have had many a drink at Bahooka with friends and have never heard a complaint about the drinks...or the food for that matter!

As far a Trader Vic's goes, they are in a transition phase...The Hilton made the decisions AND set the drink prices! T.V. wants to keep a positive presence in the L.A. area.

On 2007-05-10 15:30, SoccerTiki wrote:

On 2007-05-10 10:51, Registered Astronaut wrote:
The ONLY THING TRADER VIC'S HAS LEFT ARE THE COCKTAILS...after all, Bahooka is cool to look at, but the food and drinks suck.

I beg to differ! I have had many a drink at Bahooka with friends and have never heard a complaint about the drinks...or the food for that matter!

As far a Trader Vic's goes, they are in a transition phase...The Hilton made the decisions AND set the drink prices! T.V. wants to keep a positive presence in the L.A. area.

The food at Bahooka is not the same as TVs food, but I love it.

The Drinks at Bahooka only dream of being close to TVs drinks,

call me a Rum snob, but I havent found any other place in LA or OC
( not that I'm looking real hard) that makes drinks anywhere near as good as TV's or Tiki TI, if you cant tell the difference I'm sorry for you and your taste buds.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

All this talk about Mai-Tai's has made me thirsty! Tonight TVLBH...7ish....

Anyone in the LA area might want to try and get over to Trader Vic's Lounge tonight....around 7:30-8ish.... might be a party....definitely worth stopping by! Remember to get your parking validated!

[ Edited by: SoccerTiki 2007-05-11 18:35 ]

On 2007-05-10 10:51, Registered Astronaut wrote:

.

What incentive did they have for running the restaurant responsibly and doing the basic things one should do to be profitable? Taking a hit on a restaurant is chump change compared to how much they'll be able to make with it out of the way. The info I have heard from some "ask not to be identified"-type sources at Trader Vic's is that Hilton simply wasn't even trying to make it work.

It seems Trader Vic's wasn't keeping up on their end of the bargain either. Numerous posts before the closing comlained of bad food and service at the Bev Hills location and watered down retro-lounge new locations. TV's is a poorly run business, just take a look at their website. An smattering of mugs, syrups, rums, t-shirts, etc. could be sold to us eager to eat up all that crap. To be even cooler they could do limited editions. The restraunts could've updated their menus with fresher, more relevant food fare and outreached to the tiki community by hosting after parties for art events and the like. But they don't. They keep talking about how they invented the Mai Tai. The story is impressive, but c'mon. I invented a few drinks myself, do I get wooden leg too?

The company is under the delusion that they are still an upper-eschelon, $100 just-to-sit-down establishment. The real reason anybody goes there is
A. for the drinks
B. Because they've been going there forever and feel familiar with the menu (because it hasn't changed since 1960)

In agreement HumuHumu, I think us TikiPhiles need to stop making apologies for establishments that don't reciprocate our love. TV's 90210 further kicked us in the groin to add insult to injury by raising the cocktail prices. They better let me do a cannonball from a balcony for what they want for a navy grog.

The ONLY THING TRADER VIC'S HAS LEFT ARE THE COCKTAILS...after all, Bahooka is cool to look at, but the food and drinks suck. No matter how womb-like an authentic tiki temple is, if the fare is sub-par, the enchantment "melts like ice cream on the altar of the sun (Jets to Brazil)."

Stop the madness!

The Beverly Hilton owner decides to shutter Trader Vic's to eliminate a possible obstacle to the Waldorf Astoria hotel development and, as a result, Trader Vic's is being blamed for being a substandard restaurant.

The gratuitous statement about Trader Vic's not being profitable is obviously not accurate. Further, it wasn't Trader Vic's who decided to shutter their location. Moreover, if the venture was not profitable, TVL would not have opened.

The idea that the Beverly Hilton not trying to make it work is both false and misses the point. First of all, the Beverly Wilshire did dedicate exclusive signage rights to Trader Vic's on the corner of Wilshire and Santa Monica - one of the busiest intersections in Southern California. Trader Vic's was also allowed to maintain its own separate entrance,as opposed to forcing would be customers through the hotel. Lastly, until recently, the Beverly Wilshire did not breach the lease agreement.

The fact they didn't do limited edition mugs is also false. In 2004, the Mai Tai was $6.00 with an appetizer. For an additional $6.00 one could get the "60th" anniversery of the Mai Tai glass. One side has the original recipe, the other side some TV philosophy. They would not sell the Tiki Bowl.

The comment that Trader Vic's is a poorly run business is not worthy of a response.

Regarding their cuisine, the pupus on the menu remain and are just as tasty as ever.

The idea that people go there because they grew up going there is just silly. I didn't grow up going there and, based on my 3 visits to TVL in 8 nights, only a handful of customers dinning have been of the age to have done so.

The quality of the cuisine at the prior location has been well docucmented.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10007&forum=1&hilite=Trader%20Vic's%20anniversary

Trader Vics did share the love - pupus and cocktails were free to any and all on the opening night. While there have been rumours of more such opening nights happening, judging by the 200+ people who mobbed the place last night, almost to closing, such may now be unnecessary.

The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the proir location (yes - I said it).

[ Edited by: christiki295 2007-05-12 10:25 ]

I couldn't agree more with Christiki295!!!

I think at this point its reached a cheerleading point of no return.
The folks that have no problem with what has happened will continue to go to
the new TV lounge. The folks that don't want to, well I don't think that they are going to be convinced.

Personally I don't think its lipstick on a pig, but it still isn't the original TVBH. And I don't think that anyone can argue otherwise that TV in general has been watering down their legacy with their recent actions.

Personally, not having a good-bye party or week of recognition is indicative of the type of people running the company and making the decisions. Not my kind of people.
And that is in no way saying anythng about the fine staff.

And I know that it is possible to incorporate old buildings into new ones. There have been a few exapmles of this in NYC where developers couldn't get people to sell there buildings to them. So they just built their monoliths, up and around the older building.

Pure plain and simple, TV has been riding its legacy to a threadworn state.

This was intended to be a new thread with a new vibe for a new Trader Vics location, but for some inexplicable reason seems to be turning into a forum for insulting the recent acts of Trader Vic's.

Trader Vic's Lounge can more than stand on its own - based on its own unique merits, independent of its beloved predecessor.
Happily, it has already caught on and should thrive for its limited duration even if none of us support it. However, we would be cheating ourselves of a very worthwhile tiki experience by failing to visit Trader Vic's Lounge. No need to take my evaluation of TVL - plenty of others have posted their approval.

To suggest that the recent actions of corporate Trader Vic's is ruining the fine legacy of Trader Vic's is, at best, uninformed.
Regarding Trader Vic's Lounge, corporate sent several high level staff to oversee the kitchen, cocktails and overall preparation of the site. In addition, they faced the daunting challenge of getting a Trader Vic's location up and running in a very short time - in some ways with only 4 days time before opening night.

Trader Vic's recent actions also include opening the Emeryville location and re-opening the San Francisco location and, more recently, expading to Florida and Las Vegas. I hardly think anyone being reasonable would consider these acts "riding its legacy to a threadworn state."

On 2007-05-12 09:49, christiki295 wrote:

On 2007-05-10 10:51, Registered Astronaut wrote:

.

What incentive did they have for running the restaurant responsibly and doing the basic things one should do to be profitable? Taking a hit on a restaurant is chump change compared to how much they'll be able to make with it out of the way. The info I have heard from some "ask not to be identified"-type sources at Trader Vic's is that Hilton simply wasn't even trying to make it work.

It seems Trader Vic's wasn't keeping up on their end of the bargain either. Numerous posts before the closing comlained of bad food and service at the Bev Hills location and watered down retro-lounge new locations. TV's is a poorly run business, just take a look at their website. An smattering of mugs, syrups, rums, t-shirts, etc. could be sold to us eager to eat up all that crap. To be even cooler they could do limited editions. The restraunts could've updated their menus with fresher, more relevant food fare and outreached to the tiki community by hosting after parties for art events and the like. But they don't. They keep talking about how they invented the Mai Tai. The story is impressive, but c'mon. I invented a few drinks myself, do I get wooden leg too?

The company is under the delusion that they are still an upper-eschelon, $100 just-to-sit-down establishment. The real reason anybody goes there is
A. for the drinks
B. Because they've been going there forever and feel familiar with the menu (because it hasn't changed since 1960)

In agreement HumuHumu, I think us TikiPhiles need to stop making apologies for establishments that don't reciprocate our love. TV's 90210 further kicked us in the groin to add insult to injury by raising the cocktail prices. They better let me do a cannonball from a balcony for what they want for a navy grog.

The ONLY THING TRADER VIC'S HAS LEFT ARE THE COCKTAILS...after all, Bahooka is cool to look at, but the food and drinks suck. No matter how womb-like an authentic tiki temple is, if the fare is sub-par, the enchantment "melts like ice cream on the altar of the sun (Jets to Brazil)."

The fact they didn't do limited edition mugs is also false. In 2004, the Mai Tai was $6.00 with an appetizer. For an additional $6.00 one could get the "60th" anniversery of the Mai Tai glass. One side has the original recipe, the other side some TV philosophy. They would not sell the Tiki Bowl.

The comment that Trader Vic's is a poorly run business is not worthy of a response.

Regarding their cuisine, the pupus on the menu remain and are just as tasty as ever.

The idea that people go there because they grew up going there is just silly. I didn't grow up going there and, based on my 3 visits to TVL in 8 nights, only a handful of customers dinning have been of the age to have done so.

The quality of the cuisine at the prior location has been well docucmented.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10007&forum=1&hilite=Trader%20Vic's%20anniversary

Trader Vics did share the love - pupus and cocktails were free to any and all on the opening night. While there have been rumours of more such opening nights happening, judging by the 200+ people who mobbed the place last night, almost to closing, such may now be unnecessary.

The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the proir location (yes - I said it).

[ Edited by: christiki295 2007-05-12 10:25 ]

Limited edition mugs in, what was that... 2004? I'm not trying to start arguments. I'm sorry if it sounds like i'm badmouthing all that Trader Vic's ever was. Not the case. I have read nearly all his old books, from the Bar Manual to the Rum Cookery and Drinkery. I think he was a very interesting character, a great barman, a chef that took risks in the culinary climate of the time, and kindof a quirky, funny chauvinist. What I do want to be clear on is that aside from the drinks, Trader Vics does not live up to its old reputation, and we should not be angry at the Hilton, or whatever the name of the real estate company is that owns it. While I do not claim to be a food critic, it doesn't take one to realize what a mediocre dining experience was TV's 90210. Judging from what other's have said, they felt the same about the food. I actually posted a thread on what a rip-off I thought it was before any of this commotion, I won't go to the trouble to dig it up 'cuz its not worth it. I will eat medicore food, 'cuz I can't afford to eat nice for every meal. who can? Just don't charge me $150 for it thinking I won't notice.

In their defense of these prices on their behalf, having spent time in the hotel industry, I know that high prices keep the riff-raff out. Hotels and restaurants will raise prices despite whether anything has happened to substantialize it. But I doubt a restraunt in the Beverly Hilton would turn from a nice eating establishment to a dive bar because they weren't charging twenty bucks for a plate of Chow Mein.

If Trader Vic's was running a better business, they would be tapping into the current interest in Mid century and Tiki that is sweeping southern California. Yes, its probably not profitable to build a huge new Polynesian temple smack dab in the middle of Beverly Hills. And I don't think the poolsde bar is a bad substitute, after all, I'd be a hypocrite, since I said all they are good for is the drinks anyway. But like HumuHumu pointed out, they're new offerings have missed the mark, it is quite obvious they have lost touch with what made them great in the first place. Infact, I am still amazed (albeit, happilly) that the cocktail menu has been so preserved over the years. So I applaud them for that.

Don't apologize for them, they don't care about you. Seriously.

[i]On 2007-05-12 15:38, Registered Astronaut wrote:
If Trader Vic's . . . .they would be tapping into the current interest in Mid century and Tiki that is sweeping southern California. Yes, its probably not profitable to build a huge new Polynesian temple smack dab in the middle of Beverly Hills. And I don't think the poolside bar is a bad substitute, after all, I'd be a hypocrite, since I said all they are good for is the drinks anyway. ...

I feel your pain.

However, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the mid-century characteristics of Trader Vic's Lounge. First and foremost,the poolside location is very 50s. In addition, Trader Vic's Lounge also has the following characteristics: the illuminated yellow neon sign in the traditional Trader Vic's script; the mature, 50s era tropical landscaping; the choice of the color orange for the patio furniture; the style of the furniture; the selection of orange and yellow for accent lighting and the 50s era tiki mugs.

PS - the Mai Kai in Santa Monica has been remodeled into a Polynesian temple.

[ Edited by: christiki295 2007-05-12 16:24 ]

[i]On 2007-05-12 15:38, Registered Astronaut wrote:

Don't apologize for them, they don't care about you. Seriously.

This statement is seriously false. Having met several of the corporate staff sent to Trader Vic's Lounge to assist - several times, I can vouch that they are, in fact, very interested about the opinions, ideas and evaluations of those of us here on TikiCentral. Believe me, they do not care for the recent events any more than we do.

After a long couple of weeks working lots of overtime and weekends I finished this phase of the project this afternoon. Seeing as that I actually had the night free, I decided to celebrate by taking myself to the Trader Vic's Lounge at the Beverly Hilton and check it out for myself. I put on an Aloha shirt and donned by Sam's Seafood tiki pendant and headed for the Hiton to check the place out for myself. I was hoping that maybe some other TC'ers would be there, but I had to explore on my own. Here is my assessment.

The Good

The drinks are still the same Trader Vic's drinks and they are still superb. I recognized the old Chinese bartender behind the bar, and the staff is still many of the restaurant employees. It is the old bar menu, too. All the drinks are there and, it seems, as are the glassware, bowls and mugs. The poolside atmosphere is relaxing and fun and there is more space there than there was at the bar at the old restaurant. There are tikis and the place has a very modern, neo-tiki atmosphere including a DJ playing some nice jazz tunes out of iTunes on his mac notebook. The staff is eager to please, including hotel employees that don't even work at Trader Vic's. Seeing my tiki, one of the hotel employees figured I was looking for Trader Vic's and directed me to find it. Even the parking lot attendant saw the validation stamp and asked me what I thought of the new "lounge." Perhaps the corporate office and the new property owners don't give a crap, but the current staff seems to be well aware of tiki enthusiasts and they want us to like the change.

The Bad

The old, "classic" tiki bar vibe - that blend of kitsch and elegance that was so characteristic of the old Trader Vic's and getting so hard to find anymore (unless you live near the Mai Kai) is gone. I mean, completely gone. The new lounge - despite the wood tables, tikis, hanging baskets and canoe - has a very neo-tiki vibe similar to something like the Mr. Tiki lounge in San Diego. Any real traces of the history of the old Vic's is pretty well gone. This is a completely new Vic's, and a few tikis doesn't change that feel. The pupus menu is kind of nice, but there is no more restaurant. The pupus are OK, but nothing like the food you could get at the old Vic's.

The Ugly

The prices border on obscene. $15 for a Navy Grog, $20 for a pupu platter. Two drinks and appetizers cost me over $50. Apparently, they are only really interested in the rich enthusiasts. This is not going to replace Tiki Ti as my preferred tiki bar and vists to the TVLBH are going to be reserved for special occasions.

The Bright Side

We have lost a local trasure, but it's not all bad. We still have a Trader Vic's in Los Angeles, even if it is but a ghost of the old one. Still, it is better than losing it altogether, and as an entirely new neo-tiki bar, this one really isn't bad if you can get over the extortionate prices. I was told the adjacent restaurant, Circa 55 (or something like that) plans on adding some of the Trader Vic's restaurant fare to their menu, so you will be able at some point to go to the lounge, enjoy your Vic's cocktails and have a dinner of Trader Vic's food. It won't be the same, but it's better than losing yet another classic tiki bar altogether.

And that's the way I see it.

On 2007-05-12 09:49, christiki295 wrote:
...The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the proir location

this statement must be the most ridiculous + weirdest crap
ever written in this forum !!!

Now on to Vegas! That Ceasers Palace has got to go.

On 2007-05-13 00:45, PiPhiRho wrote:
It won't be the same, but it's better than losing yet another classic tiki bar altogether.

Yes, consider yourselves fortunate. We've got nothing here in Baltimore. Nothing. TV's you listening?

On 2007-05-13 00:45, PiPhiRho wrote:

I put on an Aloha shirt and donned my Sam's Seafood tiki pendant and headed for the Hiton to check the place out for myself. I was hoping that maybe some other TC'ers would be there, but I had to explore on my own.

And you weren't under dressed this time!

---

     Life is a state of mind  

[ Edited by: Ojaitimo 2007-05-13 09:14 ]

On 2007-05-13 02:30, icebaer69 wrote:

On 2007-05-12 09:49, christiki295 wrote:
...The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the proir location

this statement must be the most ridiculous + weirdest crap
ever written in this forum !!!

I think not.
Go and see for yourself or, atleast, inlclude a "because" phrase to support your otherwise nonsensical opinion.

I have been to both repeatedly and have explained the basis for my perspective.
Other, differing opinions, are welcome. My opinion, even if well informed, is not dispositive.

[ Edited by: christiki295 2007-05-13 09:33 ]

On 2007-05-12 09:49, christiki295 wrote:

The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the proir location (yes - I said it).

I can honestly say that you should go to party city now and stock up on their tiki party favors since it is apparent that you have no clue what a tiki experience is from that statement you've just made above. I'm glad you enjoy the New "Neotiki" TVL, but to say its better than the original location is, tiki "blasphemy". I've read through your posts here in this thread alone, and I have yet to figure out which "side" are you on? Not that there is any sides per se, but your statements flip flop back and forth, seemingly directionless. One post you critiscize the TVL, then next praise it...?

People here are not mad that Trader Vic's opened up a Lounge inside the hotel, people are mad that we lost a "historical" landmark, and were not forewarned to the date. Historical in the sense of celebrities that patronized the original location had. Historical in the sense of the architectural geniuses that worked on it. Like it or not, there wouldn't have been a TVL if there wasn't already a TV, and to say the original location wasn't making profit is also incorrect based on the simple fact that they decided to install a TVL at the Hotel. They didn't add the Trader Vic's Lounge, just to appease a few disgruntled voices heard here on Tiki Central.

Some people are just angry at the fact in which Trader Vic's was closed ubruptly without warning, and no immediate statement saying that they had planned on moving it inside to the pool area. It was butchered, plain and simple...from the Public Relations at the Hilton, to the Corporate offices of Trader Vic's, both of which, pointed the finger at the other on April 29th. I called both offices that day, and one said to call the other and vice versa. April 30th, they finally got their shit together as far as being on the same page with each other by having a law representative write up the Press Release stating that the last day for Vic's was the 29th. Well I was there on the 29th, and they were NOT open, and infact, already dismantling the interior.

The bottom line is to all of this... you cannot compare apples to oranges,as the two locations are incomparible and are two completely different vibes catering to two different crowds. Wait until this Summer when they throw a DJ out on the poolside patio to play house music and hip hop...
It cliche's of the grandson who throws his only grandfather in a retirement home, as to only collect his grandfather's assets faster and take over the estate. No respect...

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2007-05-13 10:55 ]

On 2007-05-13 10:51, Tom Slick wrote:

On 2007-05-12 09:49, christiki295 wrote:

The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the proir location (yes - I said it).

I can honestly say that you should go to party city now and stock up on their tiki party favors since it is apparent that you have no clue what a tiki experience is from that statement you've just made above. I'm glad you enjoy the New "Neotiki" TVL, but to say its better than the original location is, tiki "blasphemy". I've read through your posts here in this thread alone, and I have yet to figure out which "side" are you on? Not that there is any sides per se, but your statements flip flop back and forth, seemingly directionless. One post you critiscize the TVL, then next praise it...?

People here are not mad that Trader Vic's opened up a Lounge inside the hotel, people are mad that we lost a "historical" landmark, and were not forewarned to the date. Historical in the sense of celebrities that patronized the original location had. Historical in the sense of the architectural geniuses that worked on it. Like it or not, there wouldn't have been a TVL if there wasn't already a TV, and to say the original location wasn't making profit is also incorrect based on the simple fact that they decided to install a TVL at the Hotel. They didn't add the Trader Vic's Lounge, just to appease a few disgruntled voices heard here on Tiki Central.

Some people are just angry at the fact in which Trader Vic's was closed ubruptly without warning, and no immediate statement saying that they had planned on moving it inside to the pool area. It was butchered, plain and simple...from the Public Relations at the Hilton, to the Corporate offices of Trader Vic's, both of which, pointed the finger at the other on April 29th. I called both offices that day, and one said to call the other and vice versa. April 30th, they finally got their shit together as far as being on the same page with each other by having a law representative write up the Press Release stating that the last day for Vic's was the 29th. Well I was there on the 29th, and they were NOT open, and infact, already dismantling the interior.

The bottom line is to all of this... you cannot compare apples to oranges,as the two locations are incomparible and are two completely different vibes catering to two different crowds. Wait until this Summer when they throw a DJ out on the poolside patio to play house music and hip hop...
It cliche's of the grandson who throws his only grandfather in a retirement home, as to only collect his grandfather's assets faster and take over the estate. No respect...

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2007-05-13 10:55 ]

What he said.

There is now way to say that this is better than the original TV'S. I mean seriously, seriously how can anyone say that and mean it? Just looking at the photos shows a serious down-tiki-ing.

The argument about TV opening in Florida. If you take away the basket lamps the Dining area could pass for my local PF Changs. And thats not my idea of a Tiki Experience.

Tiki as a corporate entity is dying. Suffering at the hands of a generation of short attention span customers, and Eisner like CEO'S. The few remaing Tiki Temples that are family owned and operated will probably be gone when the one family member whose dream it is to run those places die. Cold and harsh, but true.
Support them while they are still around.

Heck even the owners at Damon's were kind enough to listen and at least be polite about having Tiki-philes put in their two cents worth.

And I still think that if you go to your family owned and operated Tiki Joints with some small Tiki Offering for them to add to the atmosphere, it shows them you dig their place.

An Edsel has a lot of chrome and nifty gadgets, but don't sell it to me as anyting but an Edsel.

[ Edited by: TikiGardener 2007-05-13 11:32 ]

Good post, Tom, but this thread was intended to serve as a discussion of the Trader Vic's Lounge, not our collective disappointment over the loss of the beloved Trader Vic's - disappointment, as you note, I share.

Trader Vic's Lounge is not "neo-tiki" like Point Moorea in Downtown LA or Mr. Tiki's Mai Tai Lounge in the San Diego Gaslamp. To the contrary, while it is a new venue, it does features many mid-century characteristics which are befitting of a tiki establishment.

Nevertheless, I encourage you to visit Trader Vic's Lounge - drop me a line and the first round will be on me - and make an informed evaluation as to whether the open air, 50s pool-side location is not better. Your are also invited to come and check out my tiki hut before you any other BS, inspid, personal attacks on my home decor - except I did obtain my bamboo tiki torches from Party America at the Grove.

[ Edited by: surffnutt3000 2007-05-15 20:04 ]

On 2007-05-13 11:46, surffnutt3000 wrote:
They'll probably have a DJ this Summer, then possibly close next Summer for conversion into an ultralounge with bottle service.

They already have a DJ - on Friday, he played Quiet Village as part of his exotica set.

a guy playing mp3's onan ipod player is not a DJ,
sorry to break the news flash.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

WoooHoooo! If you haven't been to TV's Lounge 90210 yet, you don't know what you are missing. The Lounge and Poolside area was packed Friday Night with people from 7:00pm to Closing. The Food & Drinks are Tiki-licious and the Wait Staff/Bartenders are 1st Class All the Way!! The DJ played Exotica/Swanky Tunes throughout the night. With Summer just around the corner, Trader Vic's Lounge is going to be The Place to Be.

Al-Tiki, Christiki295, SoccerTiki, WooHooWahine, & Eve Bergeron

The 3 Amigos & Senorita Eve

The Drinks were so good Al-Tiki had to use Double Straws


Round of applause to The Chef


Like I said the place was packed:

SoccerTiki and I can't wait to go back! :)

[ Edited by: WooHooWahine 2007-05-13 21:45 ]

On 2007-05-13 20:49, bigtikidude wrote:
a guy playing mp3's onan ipod player is not a DJ,
sorry to break the news flash.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

I didn't see you there. Where were you hiding? DJ El Dopa was spinning vinyls all night

On 2007-05-13 20:49, bigtikidude wrote:
a guy playing mp3's onan ipod player is not a DJ,
sorry to break the news flash.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

The Trader Vic's DJ had 2 turntables.
But even if he didn't and used an Ipod, such would be fine.
This is nitpicky to the nth degree.

[ Edited by: christiki295 2007-05-13 22:40 ]

Ok sorry I misread a old post saying that someone was playing an Ipod player.
so sue me.

I might go up there today. sometime in the afternoon.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Are there any other hotels in the area that aren't an arm and a leg?

Stumbling distance??

On 2007-05-13 00:45, PiPhiRho wrote:
neo-tiki atmosphere including a DJ playing some nice jazz tunes out of iTunes on his mac notebook.

Now can you see why I said what I did?
Paul mentioned a DJ / or music being played on a iTunes player, before anybody else said there was a DJ playing Vinyl.

I still say that if your going to have a DJ its gotta be Vinyl or CDs.
if your gonna have a ipod, hide it somewhere and let it go by itself.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

[ Edited by: bigtikidude 2007-05-14 09:25 ]

Hey Christiki, I'm not trying to nitpick, but how many sets of exotica were played vs. hip hop and house? I can't imagine they played exotica All night long(And please correct me if I am wrong, as I'll take you up on that offer and revel in the TVL with exotica music all night!). I was originally only mocking that they would get a DJ, but now that they do have one, I already know the drill. I promoted some of the most happening and most successful nightclubs in Los Angeles/Hollywood/Long Beach areas, for over 11 years(since retired). The crowd in the pictures are definately not a Trader Vic's crowd, but more of the younger(27&under) Roosevelt/Naked/Argyle/Standard type upscale crowd that are into Progressive House & Trance Music. Preference and most popular of drinks by this crowd are usually Energy Drinks with Vodka, or Jägerbombs. A Bottle serviced Ultra Lounge does not look far behind based on the pictures of the crowd. And I didn't mean to step on your thread or knock your taste in tiki, but that comparison was an open door to set the record straight. The statement about("The new Trader Vic's Lounge offers an even better tiki experience than the prior location")...Nuff' said, and Enjoy the Lounge...It does look cool if you are into that scene...And that wasn't another pop shot...:lol:, I'm saying it sincerely...

Good lord. Where is reality around here? Everyone is talking as though tikiphiles are the target demographic for Trader Vic's and all decisions whould be based on that. Hell, we likely account for less than a tenth of a percent of their business! You might suggest that it is the aesthetic we love that draws all the others there to some degree. That may be partly true, but, clearly, it is not the exact truth. Locations that are far from the tikiphiles dark tiki bar architype are flourishing despite your poo poos of them.

A well meaning idea has turned into a caustic, absurd, negative, stupid bunch of propoganda. You'd think somebody killed your puppy with a hoe.

I especially detest the list of people who are bashing the TVL and anyone who likes it at all without every having been there! Taking the opportunity to make some craptacularly dogmatic arguments that have no basis except in some sort of tiki-er than thou flagilating.

This is sickening.

Too many bagging on the place! Too many personal attacks! Go have a drink and get over yourselves! Either you like it or you don't. Quit trying to dissuade others from checking it out for themselves. It's not cheap, so if you're cheap don't go. It's not the old Trader Vic's, so if that's the only thing you're looking for don't go. Simple enough? This thread was to introduce the place to everyone, not become a forum for baggin on it!

Ha Swanky, what a great rant, it really cracked me up! You are right, but if we would be mature, pragmatic realists, we wouldn't be into Tiki! :D
Our proud motto should be "Why grow up when you can be a Tiki lover!"

I went and checked out the lounge for lunch this weekend. The sandwich I had from Circa 55 was pretty bland, but the mai tais were still just as tasty, and the lounge actually looks pretty great. I've always been a fan of crashing hotel pool bars, and this one is a particularly classy, relaxing way to catch some rays and enjoy world-class tiki drinks this summer. Highly recommended.

Our proud motto should be "Why grow up when you can be a Tiki lover!"

Less virtual reality, more ritual virility!

-Randy

On 2007-05-14 09:24, bigtikidude wrote:

On 2007-05-13 00:45, PiPhiRho wrote:
neo-tiki atmosphere including a DJ playing some nice jazz tunes out of iTunes on his mac notebook.

Now can you see why I said what I did?
Paul mentioned a DJ / or music being played on a iTunes player, before anybody else said there was a DJ playing Vinyl.

I still say that if your going to have a DJ its gotta be Vinyl or CDs.
if your gonna have a ipod, hide it somewhere and let it go by itself.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

[ Edited by: bigtikidude 2007-05-14 09:25 ]

Mac Notebook, ie laptop, with iTunes. NOT ipod. He had turntables, but at the time I saw him spinning no vinyl. A CD is a source of digital music just at itunes is. Why is a CD an acceptable music source but a computer with stored digital fines is not? It is still going through a sound system and I think it sounded really good. But what the DJ was using to play music is ultimately irrelevant to this discussion anyway. Yeah, it wasn't DJ Lee playing from his extensive collection of 45s. It wasn't "retro" and it wasn't authentic old school Tiki. The TV Lounge really isn't either. It is a very modern simulation of retro tiki. I claim that is IS Neo-Tiki. It's just new-tiki with a few vintage items.

Look, if you judge the lounge on it's own merits without comparing it to the old restaurant (just yards away) then you would say the the Trader Vic's lounge is one of the best examples of a neo-tiki bar. If you compare it to the old restaurant, the it is going to compare unfavorably on all the attributes that apply to old-school Polynesian Pop.

What it is is an excellent modern tiki lounge with great drinks and a great atmosphere.

What it is not is the old Trader Vic's.

Accept the change or not. Patronize the new place or not. The change has happened anyway and there is nothing that can be done about it at this point. When the Waldorf comes in to replace the Hilton likely Trader Vic's will be gone altogether. We can only hope then that Trader Vic's will choose to reopen the restaurant elsewhere in the area. The new restaurant, if there ever is one, will not be the old one either. Sven is very much correct when he talks about "Devolution." Tiki will change or it will die completely.