SHAG popularity fading?

Used to be that each time a new SHAG print was released, the limied copies were snatched up quick. But lately it seems to me that they're available on Shagmart for a lot longer than they used to be. At least one print has been available for over a year.

And I also noticed that SHAG's limited edition Pink Panther mugs from Tiki Farm aren't sold out yet either, even though they've been available for quite some time.

So it makes me wonder if the artist's popularity is fading.

Speaking for myself...I would say absolutely not! Having gone to the opening of his new show I'd say his popularity is stronger than ever.

As for the Pink Panther items, I can only speculate that perhaps they are not as popular because they are dealing with a "pre-existing" character, not created by SHAG.

I think the rate of sales on the Shag prints has to do with price point and content. A print for $150-$250 with a tiki in it will sell out much faster than a couple of satyrs at $350.

The Pink Panther mugs aren't really everyone's cup of tea either. The edition on those is huge, and they aren't individually numbered.

The Monku & Apohu mug/print combo will probably sell like hotcakes though.

check out all the "Red Dots"....

http://billyshirefinearts.com/current.html

I do not think his popularity is fading, he continues to have shows all over the world (Europe, Asia, Australia etc..) now rather than just in So. cal and continues to sell them out despite increasing prices of his original art.

He is gaining exposure to a whole other audience, once just known to the tiki crowd and lowbrow movement, he is now collected by high end art collectors and celebrities. Which explains the 36 grand paintings selling quickly at his latest show.

Prints at shagmart (formerly Switched on gallery) used to sell out immediately because they were low priced and were snatched and resold on e-bay immediately for profit.

Piet and Josh were aware of this, and increased prices of the prints on shagmart to match the resale prices on e-bay, essentially cutting out the middleman's profit. Now the people purchasing the prints are only the true fans/collectors.

With over a hundred different Shag prints made already, and only so much wall space, fans and collectors have probably become more selective with their purchases.

Personally it has been a while since I purchased a Shag print, not because I do not like them, but because I already have so many (most now in storage), and no place to hang them. But there are still a lot of images that if made into a print, would tempt me to add to the collection.

On 2007-09-18 13:54, RevBambooBen wrote:
check out all the "Red Dots"....

http://billyshirefinearts.com/current.html

Nice!

Fading popularity ?

Let's see....

a 6x6 INCH painting for $999.

I doubt it.

If that's "fading popularity", I'll take it.

On 2007-09-18 14:55, tikiyaki wrote:
a 6x6 INCH painting for $999.
...
If that's "fading popularity", I'll take it.

Please note that All One Hundred of those 6X6" paintings were sold before the work opened at the gallery...

A dealer in Tokyo has this LE print ( from 2002 ) for sale and I am very interested , but they want over $ 800 . What do you think ?

"El Banderillero"
2007
acrylic on canvas
41" x 98"
$36,000.00

I can only admire from afar....I don't have that kind of money, but if I did, it woud be on my wall.

Shoot, $800 for a print from 2002? I have a print I bought in 2000! I'd take $800 for it...damn I'd even take a few cool mugs in trade for it!

On 2007-09-18 15:56, sushiman wrote:
A dealer in Tokyo has this LE print ( from 2002 ) for sale and I am very interested , but they want over $ 800 . What do you think ?

Usually I stay out of this stuff, but in this case I feel drawn because I really like Shag's images, and am jazzed from the show this last week (pun intended: I also like this particular image), so here's my two cents:

If you're asking as a financial investment, make a profession of it and learn the market - there's just no other way to avoid disappointment eventually, since markets are pretty unruly creatures. For what it's worth, verifiable provenance may or may not be a significant issue in price/value/resale, and such consideration may change over time.

That said, I am sure that if I were in your shoes and investment was my question, I would do exactly as you have done and ask here, and someone else would give me the advice I am giving you.

Sorry, not much help with motive #1.

On the other hand, if you're asking about buying the art for yourself to satisfy an appetite (and you're buying it, not receiving it in consideration for a donation to a worthy charity), then the only two questions that matter are:

1. is the print available elsewhere for less money (temporarily ignoring the karmic implications of some seller's own motivations), and
2. are you willing to pay that much cash for that work of art.
   Perhaps there is another print available at a lower price that would satisfy your appetite.

It is very likely that your interest includes some of each of these motives, and if so, only you can weigh the value.

In no case should your payout exceed the higher of the values you determine from examining each of the two motives separately.

Check out the sale prices for new prints available at Shagmart.com and the affiliated galleries for a sense of the baseline.

Please do keep in mind: my advice may be worth no more than you paid for it, and my own motivation includes the desire to afford a few of Josh's pieces myself some day...

On 2007-09-18 16:22, VampiressRN wrote:
"El Banderillero"
...
I can only admire from afar....I don't have that kind of money, but if I did, it woud be on my wall.

I feel the same way.
I spent a quarter of an hour on just this one image at the show opening, sorting through different layers of metaphor and reference...
Quite a masterpiece!

Who's this Shag person?

On 2007-09-18 17:09, Tiki Matt wrote:
Who's this Shag person?

Check out shag.com

i have and always will be a big fan of shag's art...

.....but at some point soon, he's gonna have to reinvent himself again.....aside from the fact that he is probably getting bored banging out artwork in his same style over and over, his general fan base may eventually get tired of it perhaps and look to other artists work.....time to kick it up a notch to keep those "dead guy" paychecks comin' in.......

http://www.glltn.com/?p=1622

I think you have to look PAST the aesthetic of his work, and see what's really going on in those paintings.

His stuff has evolved, just subjectually, moreso than aesthetically.

The stories in those paintings is what is evolving, not so much the picture.

But, those pictures sure are fun to look at too.

On 2007-09-18 18:18, tikiyaki wrote:
I think you have to look PAST the aesthetic of his work, and see what's really going on in those paintings.

OK, for anyone not following, take for example the image of "El Banderillero":

Banderillero is a term referring to one of the fellows in a bull ring with particular skills and duties, within an elaborate cultural context with both primitive and refined rituals.
Excerpting very abbreviated description from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torero:
"Skilled banderilleros can actually correct faults in the manner in which the bull charges by lancing the bull in such a way that the bull ceases hooking to one side, which can seriously endanger a matador."

quote from the artist in an interview posted at http://www.modculture.co.uk/shag/
"I started using animals as a way to tell people that I wasn't painting the "real" world... the bull represents that part of being a male which is totally subjugated by the opposite sex."

Note the ambiguous expression on the swimming bull, note that only the man "sitting out" is not burrowing his hand into his pocket...

What is the bull doing here; what does the bull represent? Swimming? Alone in the pool?

Who is the corpulent fellow standing to the left, and what is the meaning of the not-quite resolved "...stside" tattoo on the back of his head, and what's with his elegant duds?

What is a banderillero doing here in the first place???

This just scratches one possible surface perspective, and Josh ain't sayin' what it all means.

On 2007-09-18 17:48, RevBambooBen wrote:

http://www.glltn.com/?p=1622

..great stuff as usual....reminds me of when years ago how close i came to actually being able to design a bar/niteclub that looked as if you were walking into a shag painting..shag gave his blessing but the owner/money guy fell through.....at least the concept survived!!.....anyway, what this show proves is that shag is very creative in finding new ways to market his existing product and style, but what i was essentially trying to suggest in my earlier post was about him reinventing or expanding on his already established style, not coming up with new ways to sell an older concept, but if it sells, hey, who am i to argue. But nature and the art world both abhor a vacuum and sooner or later it catches up unless you are able to see down the road a few miles.

As much as I dig the KIND OF BLUE print , one I wanted even more but was sold out everywhere I looked , The Raft Of The Medusa ( see below ) , may have been found @ $ 350 . I'm waiting for a reply from the gallery for confirmation that the print is still available . If it is available I will buy it pronto ! Watch this space !

Sushiman, if I were in your place I would grab "Raft..." in a New York second.
Love that image!
...
But like I said, check the market first. (see Sirginn's comment, below)

[ Edited by: Tiki Lion 2007-09-19 10:16 ]

On 2007-09-18 17:27, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
.....but at some point soon, he's gonna have to reinvent himself again.....aside from the fact that he is probably getting bored banging out artwork in his same style over and over, his general fan base may eventually get tired of it perhaps and look to other artists work.....time to kick it up a notch to keep those "dead guy" paychecks comin' in.......

I agree, there's no evolution in his work. It's good, but it's the same adjacent color Arne Jacobsen chair over and over again.
If I had a lot of money to spend on art, I'd rather go for something by Tim Biskup.
Or maybe Bob Ross.

I can still remember stumbling upon one of Shag's first shows at La Luz De Jesus gallery
way back in 1999. The images were so mesmerizing that I was immediately hooked. Eight years
later finds my house very Shagified (2 originals, 15 prints, 9 mugs, eight books etc.) and it's
too late to turn back. It's always very interesting when a friend stops over who has never
seen Shag's work before, almost every one asks about the "brightly colored art". Although
my purchasing has dropped off the last few years, I'm anxiously awaiting a new mid century styled
print just released by Outre Gallery. I admit at times I funded my addiction by selling some
of my collection, several prints I purchased for around $150 ended up selling for $600 to over
$1000. Those days do seem over if you look at Ebay recently, except maybe a very early print.
My Prediction for the future: Shag will to continue to grow in popularity and he will become
more well known, reaching an Andy Warhol level of notoriety. My 2 cents.

Sushiman-

Raft of medussa is available at La Luz de Jesus gallery for the original asking price, give them a call.

I saw it the other week when I was there fot Miles "kooche" Thompson's show.

And coincidentally, besides myself, tim biskup and Shag himself bought peices from Miles' show.

Hope the above info helps you acquire the print you want, but be careful it is addictive, currently there are four Shag originals hanging in our house along with about 45 prints either in storage or hanging.

I'm sure to be filleted alive for this but I am tired of Shag. He is so prolific and with all the "in the style of"s out there I am sick of it. It's cute- yes, fine for a greeting card, but I have a feeling he is the new Nagel...remember the 80s???

Ok...let the outcry begin! :wink:

This shag guy play for the Miami Heat?

Josh is aware that he could be deemed the Nagal of our generation. He pointed out to me that they even use the same printshop. Scary stuff. Eat healthy I say.
(Nagel died of a massive coronary)

Shag is eternal! Duhh! His brilliance and staying power are both tremendous! I am parodied him on my website though. hehe

I was a huge Shag fan and owned several originals, but have become bored with his work the last few years. I still appreciate and like what he does, but too much of a good thing leaves you apethic and unmoved with each new showing. He should have followed the marketing plan of Ryden instead of Nagle.

It only fades for the people who try to buy up the prints in order to resell them, I think.

I have the "hunter" mentality. Not the "hunter/seller" mentality. I only collect items in order to have them in my collection. Sometimes to gloat that I have that item. :) The people with the "hunter/seller" mentality sometimes, and sometimes too often, over extend themselves in the act of hunting in order to sell to the collector. :(

We as tikiphiles and Shag fans are really few and far between. Not to say that there are not 350 fans/philes/dorks/geeks out there, but odds are high that only 25% of those said fans/philes/dorks/geeks have the money to continually buy up prints. Or have the space.

I have a book on Shag, I have a $4 Disney Shag Ratonga shirt and a local band (Shag fan) knock-off poster.

This is only my one cent. I have another I'll keep in my pocket.

This is not just in regards to Shag. It is anything collectible.

Signature? I ain't signin nothin!

some people think "dork" is a negative thing :roll:

[ Edited by: Mr. NoNaMe 2007-09-19 23:12 ]

Shag is great and will probably always have a loyal following.

As the saying goes...Buy what you like and you'll never be disappointed...

Another penny.
The boom hits. And the boom does fade. And then it hits again.
Odds are good that Shag will be hot again in, hmmm....., exactly six years and three months. And then again in another 11 years. At that time our collective children will remember when "their" parents had a Shag (teehee, I didn't mean it that way). Subsequently they will be drawn to buying up Shags.
An original acrylic will go for $89,004-$118,900. A print from this time will go for $1200 and new prints will be $499. The Pink Panther mugs will be $39 in the stores and $7 at a flee market. Talked down from $21, or course.

On 2007-09-19 08:33, snackbar wrote:

On 2007-09-18 17:27, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
.....but at some point soon, he's gonna have to reinvent himself again.....aside from the fact that he is probably getting bored banging out artwork in his same style over and over, his general fan base may eventually get tired of it perhaps and look to other artists work.....time to kick it up a notch to keep those "dead guy" paychecks comin' in.......

I agree, there's no evolution in his work. It's good, but it's the same adjacent color Arne Jacobsen chair over and over again.
If I had a lot of money to spend on art, I'd rather go for something by Tim Biskup.
Or maybe Bob Ross.

True but so is also the same for Andy Warhol... anybody got a mansion to trade for a Warhol? Shag... singularly & inarguably the best for his collected genre/style in our generation. Try to get his earlier works where he painted outside of his desired style (which he originally started because he painted them for himself - for his own pleasure). Kidz got skills.

I think his popularity is stronger, supporting of that by comparing his prices now to 6 years ago. He has attracted the "art snobs", which assumingly pushed the prices through the roof for the average "roots" collector. The only fading being done are those who cannot afford his works anymore, and those are not people used to collecting mass produced items like the pink panther mugs. I bow to his marketing genius. Anyone who can market a $36,000 acrylic painting and comission $15 pink panther 40th anniversary boxer shorts for men available at Mervyns, or be commisioned by Disney on more than one occasion HAS to be a genius with talent...Like it or not, he's paying bills, and well deserving of it! He's definitely left his niche in the tiki community, and Nagle, on the other hand, has left...uhh...with the 80's i guess....Comparing Nagle to Shag is waaay left field...The guy (Shag) has become icon status....Now Nagle and Michael Godard can be compared fairly...His works were hot 2 years ago, and now...well lets just say not so much....
Unfortunately for myself(selfish) Shag's popularity has spread, Making his works less obtainable for me to afford, but I'm not bitter at him!

I too wanted "Raft of Medusa" as well and it was available at the El Bekal showing, but I just didnt have the money to shell out for it! It sold that day, and more power to him...Now I'll just go lounge in my $14 PinkPanther boxers as I stare at my #145/300 Enchanted Tiki Room Print(what I can afford!)
Not defending shags art, but stepping up to give respect where it is due

I still love Shag's work - I just shelled out $300 for a print of "An Extraordinary Evening". For me, that's a lot for a print, but it's a terrific image that means a lot to me personally. When I first saw it a couple of years ago, I recall saying "Hey, that's an Orchids of Hawaii R-3!". Suddenly, I realized I was deep into tiki.

We may think of him as a icon, but most people have no idea who he is nor have ever laid eyes on his work. I have "The Raft of the Medusa" print in my office, and most visitors think it's cool, but stare blankly when I tell them it's by Shag. You never get that reaction with a Nagel (except with the under 25 crowd), who's work penetrated far into the general culture. Maybe Shag needs to do an album cover for Kanye West.

My point is that Shag appreciation still has a tremendous growth potential. The real question for Shag is how much appeal do Mid Century / Tiki images have with the general public?

On 2007-09-19 22:24, MakeDaMug wrote:

On 2007-09-19 08:33, snackbar wrote:

On 2007-09-18 17:27, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
.....but at some point soon, he's gonna have to reinvent himself again.....aside from the fact that he is probably getting bored banging out artwork in his same style over and over, his general fan base may eventually get tired of it perhaps and look to other artists work.....time to kick it up a notch to keep those "dead guy" paychecks comin' in.......

I agree, there's no evolution in his work. It's good, but it's the same adjacent color Arne Jacobsen chair over and over again.
If I had a lot of money to spend on art, I'd rather go for something by Tim Biskup.
Or maybe Bob Ross.

True but so is also the same for Andy Warhol... anybody got a mansion to trade for a Warhol? Shag... singularly & inarguably the best for his collected genre/style in our generation. Try to get his earlier works where he painted outside of his desired style (which he originally started because he painted them for himself - for his own pleasure). Kidz got skills.

he's definately got skills, but the world remembers andy warhol not just for his painting style, but also for the fact that he broke new ground in the art world by extending what was normaly accepted as "art" up till that time to include everyday pop culture items. though shag has definately lead the way in terms of the low brow art movement and has a clearly defined style, his work still has brought nothing new to the table in terms of how we, society at large, have viewed art.

i always liked how ryden kept his cool through out the low brow movement then quietly slipped over the border to the realm of fine art, which seems to be how his work is regarded these days....he has done more i think to bring low brow style and imagery into the fine art world, thus broadening the scope of the fine art world overall....I don't see shag's work doing that quite yet and i think it may be a tougher sell....and i actually like shag's work better than ryden's!!
..ryden's work gives me nightmares!!

,,not just my 2 cents but a handful of chump change!!

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-20 08:24 ]

"..ryden's work gives me nightmares!!-Tipsy"

The issue at hand is popularity. When I first came to Tiki Central, all I cared about was tiki. After looking around the site is was obvious that people strongly liked Exotic (Martin Denny), Rum, The Book of Tiki, and Shag. I wasn't here for that but became familiar with it and then agreed with liking the goodness of these things.

I think that more people talked about Shag, and his books, and his prints, and his mugs more then here than now. I bought a print (one without even a tiki in it) but I think that Shag isn't as important to tiki as he once was.

There are better artist out there, better tiki artist, but not more popular tiki artist and fewer popular artist in general making art today than Shag.

He did sell out and probably would with any sized paintings but the 6x6 in paintings are for sure going to sell. When you could only buy a original Shag for 9,000 and now get a real Shag for drop a zero off the end 900 (ok, 999) you buy it cause of the name attached. The size is kinda something new for Shag, even though his art looks the same.

Personally I think Shag working with B.B.B. is a cooler subject matter than anything else at Shags show. I think if you read into his painting too much, your losing the point too. I spend about 30 second max looking over and thinking about the subject matter. I think the paintings depth is as deep as the 3D look of the characters. But his work is a great exercise in colors that work well together and works together in your home.

BAck to populaty, I think the name Shag is less said around here at TC (and TC is a bigger fansite for Shag) than it once was. BenZart is a bigger buzz word here than Shag probably ever was/is.

he's definately got skills, but the world remembers andy warhol not just for his painting style, but also for the fact that he broke new ground in the art world by extending what was normaly accepted as "art" up till that time to include everyday pop culture items. though shag has definately lead the way in terms of the low brow art movement and has a clearly defined style, his work still has brought nothing new to the table in terms of how we, society at large, have viewed art.

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-20 08:24 ]

I agree with you Tipsy...comparing Warhol to Shag is a huge stretch. I guess my problem is that although Shag's stuff is cool..it's EVERYWHERE!And when you start seeing it on throw-away items like cards, napkins, coasters..it kind of loses its lustre. What's next Shag stuff in Happy Meals??

Shags a fine artist but I am tired of "signed numbered limited edition".

The guy gets to wake up every morning and do what he really enjoys doing, and he makes alot of money doing it. And he's really good at what he does. GROG happy for him.

On 2007-09-20 09:32, GROG wrote:
The guy gets to wake up every morning and do what he really enjoys doing, and he makes alot of money doing it. And he's really good at what he does. GROG happy for him.

Grog know first hand because Grog sleep in same bed as Shag. DNH happy for Grog and Shag

Hmmmmm...is the any chance the economy has anything to do with his "popularity"?!?!?!!?

On 2007-09-20 09:02, sputnikmoss wrote:

What's next Shag stuff in Happy Meals??

Come on Sputnik don't tell me you wouldn't want a Shag Happy Meal. I know I would.

On 2007-09-20 09:02, sputnikmoss wrote:

I agree with you Tipsy...comparing Warhol to Shag is a huge stretch. I guess my problem is that although Shag's stuff is cool..it's EVERYWHERE!And when you start seeing it on throw-away items like cards, napkins, coasters..it kind of loses its lustre. What's next Shag stuff in Happy Meals??

..okay i have to qualify what i am about to say next by stating that i think the shag marketing machine is an awesome force to be reckond with a that it's really great to see him as successful as he is...i'm actually jeaolous and i think most of us artists here are or your just lying to yourself....however...

..years ago before the shag marketing machine revved it's engines for the first time, i had asked him if (and this is back when he was producing only paintings) he was going to make any mass produced shag items...he responded by saying no cause he didn't want to cheapen his work by making it available in those types of products.....here we are years later...and there is the double edge sword of success....we want to keep our art true to form, but the possibility of making gobs of money is tempting, especially if one feels that we are on a roll and better make the money while we can before people lose interest and move on, which is why i can relate to shag's change of heart...he had no idea how popular he would be and has no idea how long it will last, so yeah, make all you can while you can...if folks are willing to keep buying the stuff he absolutley should keep plugging onward......it's hard to draw the line unless you, as an artist have absolute creative control over the aesthetic of every product that bears your images or name...it's just too demanding and hard to keep up with so the result sometimes takes the form of cheap things made in china....anyway, good for him.

..you bastard.

On 2007-09-19 09:02, sputnikmoss wrote:

I still frickin' love Nagel. And his stuff is out (of date) and still expensive.

We have twenty Shag prints all over my house. I have five tattoos based on his work (Shag is cool with them-I asked him. My wife has one tattoo based on his work. We have several books. We have traveled to openings. I could go on. I guess we are still huge fans by the looks of it.

i think it might be cool to cross shag's style with nagel...portraits of women using shag's color palette....