Moving foward, or living in the past?

On 2008-02-20 10:12, About Tiki Central wrote:
The Tiki that Tiki Central focuses on is a mid-century American invention that is Polynesia-inspired. We’re here to discuss classic Tiki, what made it great, how to celebrate it and preserve it today, and how to create and influence new Tiki that isn’t generic, watered down, or misguided.

So, not to upset anyone or create a big hatefest thread(that is the opposite what I'm trying to express), but under these guidelines, hasn't everything pretty much been covered, discussed, and discovered, not just here, but in books written by TC members here and abroad?(Art being the exception, because art always changes) Nothing "new" about the old seems to be the realistic problem at the moment, so discussions like Target vs.Tommy Bahama seems inevitable.
Don't get me wrong, I was allured here to discover places and people, I might not have heard of otherwise. People and Companies who influenced and created the mid century polynesian paradises from motels to bars. There are tens of thousands of topics stored here and can be recalled by using the search function with a keyword or two. I've even been a a fight or two to try and preserve what was considered plausible historical landmarks.

So here's the questions: Has not every base been touched or at least scathed in the realm of mid century classic tiki discovery?
And if it has only been scathed, where are all the topics to dig up more of the history of ?

Also, Who is considered behind the Modern Polynesian Pop Culture movement? I have my own opinions, but what is everyone elses?

I think that if we as a community come to some sort of conclusions, the more experienced posters can better DIRECT and LEAD the topics that the newbies post. And by experienced posters, I don't necessarily mean the person with 10,000 posts that are for the most part "uneducating" in tiki. Some people may have only a few posts, but they are enlightening and stay within guidelines of what Tiki Central is all about, but fewer posts also can show there isn't significant moving or activity in the discoveries of ANY PolyPop be it classic or modern. It can get pretty deep, so what thoughts are out there?

Mmmmm... has it all been covered? No. Not as long as people think and can express themselves.

I think there is still a LOT that could be done, if anyone wished to do it.

If I had the time, the first thing I would do is create as detailed a topic as possible on every known place in Locating Tiki. That's every place that has as much as a matchbook. Why? Because tomorrow morning, the daughter of the owner of the former "Blue Hawaii" that was located in Sometoen, New Jersey is getting on the internet and searching for the place and won't find it. Nothing. And then she tosses the scrapbook from the place in a box and it is gone forever. Or, someone does the work and she finds this place and registers and posts that she has a scrapbook and we encourage her to scan it in and share. Bam! A ton of new info.

That information is going in the trash and into the grave on a daily basis because there is nothing on the Internet.

There is still very little documentation here. How many places are there in California? How many are even photographed here on TC? I guess people there are too jaded.

On 2008-02-20 12:45, Tom Slick wrote:

Also, Who is considered behind the Modern Polynesian Pop Culture movement? I have my own opinions, but what is everyone elses?

I would say artists first and foremost. Painters, carvers, mug makers, decor creators. They carry the torch started by the South Pacific cultures themselves to express themselves and what they thought of the world around them. In Modern Polynesian Pop Culture art forms of the South Pacific continue to be pushed into new and spectacular directions. Look at where tiki mugs have gone. Three dimensional figures have taken the place of the traditional cylinders. Carvers... Bosco and Ken Pleasant carry the torch of Witco now... and have added their flair to the classic designs. Many other carvers look to the past to bring their work into the future. Still others are creating an entirely new idea of Poly Pop. Painters such as Sam Gambino, Flounder, Thor and Ken Ruzic (just a few off the top of my head since there are so many very talented painter and illustrators)have brought tiki to the general public in art gallerys and retail outlets. Decor creators such as Bamboo Ben and Oceanic Arts bring tiki to businesses and homes in the modern age.
I consider the artists the frontline of the movement. Art gets into every little nook and cranny of today's society and has huge influences on everything.

Second I would say anyone who has the passion to make their lives Poly Pop and become a lead figure in the movement. Creating a home bar or entire living environment consisting of Poly Pop. This passion continues on in larger ways, and we see the inspiration and motivation behind those who's passion overwhelms them. They organize an event to bring these all these like minded individuals together. Leaders like Tiki Kiliki, Swanky, Otto and many others who put money and their time on the line to organize and pull off events like Hukilau, Oasis and countless other smaller but no less important gatherings. Anyone who has ever taken a chance by opening a business with the theme, whether it be a retaurant, bar or retail business. These things aren't static, they are vibrant, people are meeting other people, you're exposured and involved in an environment of Poly Pop culture.

Third I would say writers and publishers who bring the message of the history and modern age of Poly Pop. Book of Tiki, Tiki Modern, Tiki Roadtrip, Pad, Tiki Quest and countless other books that highlight gallery shows. These plant the seed that can lead to the passion mentioned in the first two points. The internet can be a wide source of information regarding all this also. These are no less important than the other two influences though.

These are my top three, I think many other things are behind the movement such as music and music styles. Many different subcultures pour into tiki. Modern Poly Pop can blend hot rods with Rockabilly with surf. It may not be hardcore Poly Pop in the beginning but many times the interest can go further and lead to that. Retail has influence, whether it be good or bad or right or wrong. Trends come and go in retail, some things stick and some fade away.

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer 2008-02-20 14:18 ]

Well, I proposed a petition-style open letter to the new owner of Sam's, one of the few remaining and very important Tiki Establishments in So Cal, and 5 people posted replies...meanwhile the Sh*tstorm in the Tommy Bahamas/Target thread raged on for 8 pages.....

I would write the letter, but I think someone like Sven would do a far more eloquent job.

I say concentrate on preservation area like that, rather than wasting energy on things like arguing over what IS and ISN'T Tiki.

Sam's may be destined to be condos, but until Orange county allows them to start demoing the place, it will be a restaurant...might as well bug the owners to keep it authentic, and true to it's former self, now that the fist set of bad owners is gone.

Just my 2 cents.

Besides, I want the Tikiyaki Orchestra to play there. :)

Cheers Lakesurfer.

..i think all this talk about who, what, where is a collosal waste of time....the experience of poly pop is "the thing", in and of itself....to be enjoyed and experienced by all who feel draw or inclined to it, in what ever way they feel comfortable...these crazy topics are just like putting red paint on an already red rose....

Tiki Central IS moving forward AND helps us Live in the Past. TC has done more for Tiki than any event or books combined.
Hanford is The Man yet he gets very little recognition. Next time you see him buy him a drink and let him bend your ear. Good stuff.

Cheers Tarzan

On 2008-02-20 13:36, Swanky wrote:
Why? Because tomorrow morning, the daughter of the owner of the former "Blue Hawaii" that was located in Sometoen, New Jersey is getting on the internet and searching for the place and won't find it. Nothing. And then she tosses the scrapbook from the place in a box and it is gone forever. Or, someone does the work and she finds this place and registers and posts that she has a scrapbook and we encourage her to scan it in and share. Bam! A ton of new info.

...........Like this....(see justsurfing's posts)

[ Edited by: ZuluMagoo 2008-02-20 20:42 ]

I like Zulumagoos example above!! Perfect reason why I like posting things that I can find out locally or close to home because I am in that area and can do the research. If we do not get the stories or find this information, no one else will and these things just disappear, forever.
I love reading about places in Detroit, Boston, California, etc., because I am not able to go to these places and do some research or find things where these restaurants/hotels were actually operating. I know there are a hell of alot of people out there like me on TC because you can still see it in the posts.

Swanky hit it right on the nail as he's bang on (and probably speaks from experience) when he gives the example of possibly a family member looking for some information on their old family business and being unable to find anything on the net. They probably say to themselves something like "Ah...who would care about an old scrapbook like this? Full of dark pictures of this old restaurant that looks like a set from Gilligan's Island?? It's not worth anything to me anymore so out it goes". Well...WE DO!!!!!

I had the same experience with a family member of a long gone Tiki Restaurant here in BC called the Tropic Isle (posted in locating tiki). The daughter of one of the owners couldn't believe that I was interested in this stuff and found it quite interesting that there were lot's of people that would like to hear the stories and see some pictures of their old Restaurant.

She was also quite relieved and happy I think as she knows that her Dad would be happy that the story of his Restaurant is being retold and there is still some of the excitement around today as there was almost 40 years ago when their Restaurant first opened!!
She said to me that her Dad would have loved to have met with me and talked about the old days. Well, I was about two months too late as he passed away before I could meet him. Funny thing though, it turns out that the owner of the Restaurant and my Dad actually knew each other and would go for lunch at The Tropic Isle!!

Anyways, basically I am saying that it's great what Tiki Central is, the people who made it what it is and all the people that add positive and fascinating bits of information. You can pick and chose what you want to read and what you want to comment on. Just have fun and support all the artist's out there that are keeping the true Polynesian Pop spirit alive!!
I am off to locating Tiki now for a update and maybe something new for some of you to read!! Mahalo, TabooDan

Cheers Zulu and Taboo

[ Edited by: GROG 2008-02-21 00:17 ]

Guess alot of 'US' don't belong here !!!!!

What I see developing in this thread, as has been the case in several others, is a division of members along party lines, depending on whether they subscribe to a traditionalist philosophy of tiki, or a liberal philosophy.

On the one hand, we have the traditionalists who are devoted to documenting bygone tiki landmarks before they fade forever into the past, preserving tiki artifacts and memorabilia before they go to that great dumpster in the sky, and creating some amazing tiki time capsules in their homes in tribute and celebration of classic tiki culture.

On the other hand, we have the liberals, who admire tiki culture and, for the most part, the efforts of the traditionalists to preserve and document, and they take inspiration from the classics. At the same time, liberals subscribe to a philosophy that tiki is flexible and subject to personal interpretation. A little mass-produced but accessible and affordable decoration are acceptable, as is a bit of mixing in Floridian, beach and whatever else seems to fit, as they are more interested in a tiki "vibe" than adherence to a historical style.

The traditionalists view the liberals as ill-informed party crashers, who are trying to make tiki, and Tiki Central, something it was not meant to be.

The liberals view the traditionalists as stodgy, inflexible museum curators who keep going "shush" whenever someone expresses individuality.

Each side is correct, when you view the situation from their point of view, alone. I think I understand the problem, but how to solve it, I don't know.

Swing the door wide open. step out on the side walk.put your arm around the poor dumb bastard standing there with his Target /Big Lots tiki in hand. Standing there with that big stupid grin on thier face,wrongly thinking this is going to be FUN,and gently lead him through the door to the wonderful world of what is RIGHT and TRUE in the world of TIKI/POLY POP.Lead him up and down the isles of authors,and carvers past and present,teaching, guiding,being a mentor as you go.Then ,once he understands the FOLLY of his way ,show him the back door,past the counter where he can buy the latest books and magazines on the subject, to the dumpster just out back,where he palces his "finds" and show him the way to OCEANIC ARTS.
Meanwhile removing his 'finds'from the dumpster,dust'm off, place them on ebay and sell them to the next poor dumb bastard.

On 2008-02-21 06:30, Tiki Zen wrote:
What I see developing in this thread, as has been the case in several others, is a division of members along party lines, depending on whether they subscribe to a traditionalist philosophy of tiki, or a liberal philosophy.

On the one hand, we have the traditionalists who are devoted to documenting bygone tiki landmarks before they fade forever into the past, preserving tiki artifacts and memorabilia before they go to that great dumpster in the sky, and creating some amazing tiki time capsules in their homes in tribute and celebration of classic tiki culture.

On the other hand, we have the liberals, who admire tiki culture and, for the most part, the efforts of the traditionalists to preserve and document, and they take inspiration from the classics. At the same time, liberals subscribe to a philosophy that tiki is flexible and subject to personal interpretation. A little mass-produced but accessible and affordable decoration are acceptable, as is a bit of mixing in Floridian, beach and whatever else seems to fit, as they are more interested in a tiki "vibe" than adherence to a historical style.

The traditionalists view the liberals as ill-informed party crashers, who are trying to make tiki, and Tiki Central, something it was not meant to be.

The liberals view the traditionalists as stodgy, inflexible museum curators who keep going "shush" whenever someone expresses individuality.

Each side is correct, when you view the situation from their point of view, alone. I think I understand the problem, but how to solve it, I don't know.

A very nice partial description of the problem....but unfortunately way too black & white. Yes, I am a Tiki traditionalist for example, and most of my contributions here deal with Tiki history, but I have stated and demonstrated MANY times that there are wonderful, creative and innovative contributions made in nouveaux Tiki, and that I support them. I cannot think of one member here that shares my love for the history of Tiki AND for the Tiki revival that can be classified as just a "dusty old museum Tiki" lover. We love both, yesterday's and today's true Tiki talent.

It is really about what I stated all along, the watering down of a style. I simply cannot chime in when -for example- someone gets excited about what they made out of the Beverly Hills Trader Vic's, and I reserve the right to challenge that such a luke warm result would be labeled quality Tiki style, and I can do so by having defined the style in the first place. I am not in denial that such devolution is the way of things, but I will label it as such. This site has to be a bulwark AGAINST mediocracy, not FOR mediocracy.

I am sorry, friends, that I was temporarily rendered speechless by the arrogance and audacity of members that have not contributed one OUNCE of creative content here but believe they can flaunt their ignorant lack of respect for tradition and actual, factual cultural impact my work...but I am back. :D

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-21 09:56 ]

Your point is well taken and, again, viewed from the perspective of a tiki traditionalist, entirely correct, particularly where we have someone who just bought an armload of day-glow plastic partyware and thinks they are now part of the tiki culture. But what about the liberals who do understand the nature of tiki, but believe they should be able to have a pirate in their bar or or a neon light, just because they like it?

The bottom line is whether the Tiki Central community should be an exclusive gathering of tiki traditionalists and the liberals should go elsewhere, or can some middle ground be achieved?

[ Edited by: Tiki Zen 2008-02-21 08:18 ]

[ Edited by: Tiki Zen 2008-02-21 08:20 ]

Yes and no, if that very "middle ground" might be too "liberal" to be labeled Tiki. Call it Pirate, Tommy Bahama's, or what you want, and, most of all, don't get defensive when that difference is pointed out. What DO they have to defend there, in the first place?

Liberals against the establishment !!!
Geez Louise !!!!

My last post was in light of Tiki David's response. As to BigBro's - I understand the concern about "watering down" the concept of tiki until it is no more than a parody of the style. I also agree that input is needed to keep things on track and within the style.

However, if we are going to accept that tiki is subject to creativity, then how do we accomodate that, and avoid the knee-jerk reaction of "Hey, look at this." "No you dummy - that's not tiki! "Who are you to tell me what is tiki?"

On 2008-02-21 08:26, bigbrotiki wrote:
Yes and no, if that very "middle ground" might be too "liberal" to be labeled Tiki. Call it Pirate, Tommy Bahama's, or what you want, and, most of all, don't get defensive when that difference is pointed out. What DO they have to defend there, in the first place?

Maybe ne need 'you' to clean up this place ... Start with Tiki Marketplace... any body not selling 'poly-pop' out they f@cking go.. They you can hit Creating Tiki.. any schmuck with a chiesel that's not conforming out they f&cking go !!!!
etc. etc. etc.

"Maybe ne need 'you' to clean up this place ... Start with Tiki Marketplace... any body not selling 'poly-pop' out they f@cking go.. They you can hit Creating Tiki.. any schmuck with a chiesel that's not conforming out they f&cking go !!!!
etc. etc. etc. "

maybe we can get helmets and t-shirts

It certainly wasn't my intention to start an "us vs. them" flame war here, and I feel I've contributed to leading this discussion a bit off-topic from that of the original poster (sorry).

All I'm saying is that I respect and admire those folks who are able to create a "pure tiki" environment. I recently built an outdoor bar. I have a puffer fish, glass float lights, a Gope board - all stuff that would pass muster.

But I also have a plastic parrot that my wife bought, a Target tiki that my kids love and a (shudder) Big Lots tik bar sign that was given to us by a friend. They are all there as well. If I post a photo of my bar, should I have to also make a disclaimer "I know not all of this stuff meets the traditional definition of tiki?"

[ Edited by: Tiki Zen 2008-02-21 08:57 ]

On 2008-02-21 08:57, Tiki Zen wrote:
It certainly wasn't my intention to start an "us vs. them" flame war here, and I feel I've contributed to leading this discussion a bit off-topic from that of the original poster (sorry).

All I'm saying is that I respect and admire those folks who are able to create a "pure tiki" environment. I recently built an outdoor bar. I have a puffer fish, glass float lights, a Gope board - all stuff that would pass muster.

But I also have a plastic parrot that my wife bought, a Target tiki that my kids love and a (shudder) Big Lots tik bar sign that was given to us by a friend. They are all there as well. If I post a photo of my bar, should I have to also make a disclaimer "I know not all of this stuff meets the traditional definition of tiki?"

[ Edited by: Tiki Zen 2008-02-21 08:57 ]

I guess your one of 'those' Liberals you talk about !!!!

On 2008-02-21 08:37, TikiLaLe wrote:
Maybe ne need 'you' to clean up this place ... Start with Tiki Marketplace... any body not selling 'poly-pop' out they f@cking go.. They you can hit Creating Tiki.. any schmuck with a chiesel that's not conforming out they f&cking go !!!!
etc. etc. etc.

Ugh. Again? TikiLaLe, what you need to understand is that Tiki Central is NOT an open forum where you can post anything you want, sell anything you want and say anything you want. This is a private forum owned by Hanford and he has invited you in to participate in his forum. Via the link at the top of the page, right under the Tiki Central logo, he has told you what is expected of you (and when I say "you", I mean all of us) and he has told you what the focus of Tiki Central is and what its focus is not. What Sven is doing is defending the definition of the style that he defined in the Book of Tiki. He has every right to do that. You may not agree with him, and that's fine. However, and this is the important part, the creator and owner of Tiki Central (Hanford) has subscribed to Sven's definition of tiki and has stated that celebrating and preserving tiki as defined in the Book of Tiki is the mission of Tiki Central. It doesn't mean discussing just vintage tiki. New tiki is included too, but new tiki that has roots in Poly Pop.

If there is any "cleaning up" of Tiki Central, it would be the responsibility of Hanford, not Sven. And Hanford would have every right to do it if he so chose. This is, after all, HIS site. Not yours and not mine. We don't get to define what Tiki Central is about. If we don't like it, we should go start our own Tiki Central. We should not fault Tiki Central for being what it is, nor should we fault people like Sven (and many others) who are trying to keep it on track. I simply don't understand the constant Sven bashing that is going on. If you don't subscribe to the mission statement of Tiki Central, then maybe this site isn't for you.

"I guess your one of 'those' Liberals you talk about !!!!"

You are right - I fall more in line with what I would consider the liberal camp. I don't subscribe to an "anything goes" line of thought, because then there really is no such thing as tiki beyond each indvidual's interpretatiion. As GatorRob pointed out, however, Tiki Central is predicated on a traditional viewpoint. I'm just trying to explore how I can be part of the community.

[ Edited by: Tiki Zen 2008-02-21 09:21 ]

On 2008-02-21 08:57, Tiki Zen wrote:
But I also have a plastic parrot that my wife bought, a Target tiki that my kids love and a (shudder) Big Lots tik bar sign that was given to us by a friend. They are all there as well. If I post a photo of my bar, should I have to also make a disclaimer "I know not all of this stuff meets the traditional definition of tiki?"

Zen, the very fact that you are asking this question shows that you are respectful of Tiki Central and its members. I wish everyone was. Too many newbies just barge in with an attitude. Let me point out this line in the Tiki Central mission statement:

It is okay to like one or more of the above and be a member of Tiki Central, just remember that it's not our focus.

So, absolutely, post pictures of your bar. We'd love to seem them! And while you don't have to include a disclaimer like you stated, doing so might fend off any "but that's not tiki!" posts. Maybe talk up those parts of your bar that are tiki. We are a very diverse group with many varied interests. We're not one dimensional people whose only interests lie in classic tiki. While that may be the focus here, you owe no apologies to anyone (implied or otherwise) for liking other things outside the Book of Tiki definition of tiki. Just don't start a plastic parrot thread okay? :D

First off, I must say Welcome back and thank you to BigBro for his continued endeavors here at TC and everywhere Polynesian Pop is. Some people appreciate it, and some do not(Can NEVER satisfy EVERYONE). In my opinion, Swanky, LakeSurfer and Jungle Trader made very valid points, and Zulu pointed out a good example. I can appreciate both newer "fun" hawaiiana/tropical AND traditional classic polypop. I can appreciate a carving Barney West did, or the efforts of Danny Balsz to create a "Tropical Disneyland" or a Disneyland mug designed by Kevin Kidney. In fact I beleive my first post as a newb was the passing of Mr. Balsz, and if anyone had heard anything. I was a lurker for close to 2 years before I actually signed up here on TC. I wanted to see what others had to say, and get a feel for what TC was about, 2 years was a long time, i know..But I felt I had nothing to contribute until that time.

(Tiki God forbid I dare say the below statement, but)
I think that Tiki can be "fun" with disposable plastic leis/tiki cups done in that cheap setting. YES, I said it..I also do not think I'd be pulling out my shag mugs or westpaks to serve some of my more rowdy friends. Cheap parties like that, where everyone can get smashed, and nobody has to worry about broken collectibles. It just makes sense that they make these watered down neon attrocities more as a throw away version versus dust collectors sitting on a shelf waiting for it to appreciate any collectible value. And if in case someone had that notion to collect party city Luau/Tiki, they would probably get on the internet to investigate and see what "tiki" is worth what, and probably stumble in on this site... so the education proccess continues...

Agreed there seems to be a line dividing members here, but coining liberals, purists, traditionalists, Elitist just makes the whole thing stink more. I seem to have a little of all in me, so does that make me an Elibpuronalist? If so, we have a new party to acknowledge.

Lastly, I would really hate to think people are here just to waste time and others time. There is AIM, AOL, Myspace, Match.com etc..etc,
So I believe everyone here that contributes WANTS to learn and know about the best of both worlds. Will Tiki Central be overrun with parrotheads and toga parties?...I'm guessing not.

edited a line so noconfusion was made in first paragraph! :lol:

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2008-02-21 09:48 ]

I also forgot to add that under the "Im ok with disposable tiki party favors..." That there is a TIME AND PLACE for everything...Its not always the time to throw these types of parties, and actually I would advise against it if you have that ONE neighbor on your block....You know, the one that calls the "SHH" Police.....

I did not want to post on this thread...I just wanted to ignore it because it seems to really miss the point of TC. My first thought in seeing this was WTF. Given recent threads, it seemed potentially inflammatory. But alas I'm sucked in.

Okay, one more opinion here. I respect the right to discuss. But why argue this topic. In looking at the mission statement, saying that we're only living in the past if we support it, is well missing the point. It's not that black and white. We're relishing and revering the past in the present. A bygone era that would only exist in memory of a quickly dying crowd if we weren't to preserve it. Does that mean that we can't talk about present? We're in the present so of course that's part of it too.

Here's the deal, a lot of people like a lot of different stuff in the tiki realm and even affiliated realms like rockabilly, etc. I know I do. Those things are discussed in Beyond Tiki. Because this is a Midcentury Polynesian Pop site, other realms of perceived tiki are not appropriate here (ie. Carribean influence, JB, etc).

I think what you're trying to figure out as a relatively new member is what else can you talk about...beyond what's already been covered. Looking at http://www.tikicentral.com/about.php can give you an idea of what's not appropriate. Everything else within the focus is. So back to the question: What can be talked about that hasn't been covered. Well, a lot of things.

Just look at the threads and posts. Lots of interesting topics that can be intelligently contributed to beyond "Gee, I like that too"...which is okay if it doesn't comprise of 1200 of your posts.

For example, mixology. Take a look at the threads and there are many great mixologists in our groups creating new cocktails based on the classic models. Vintage and retro finds, events, we're still finding pieces of the Poly Pop world out there, Architecture, restaurants, and yes tiki parties, and beyond tiki, etc. tons of things. And yeah, escapism is part of it too.

Keep in mind, I'm simply relaying the way the site works based on five years of experience. I lurked for 2 years before posting. This is a fun site. It can easily be misconstrued as a "party site" or "free for all tiki site". That it is not. But honoring the general way it works, will help avoid the perceived arrogance of newbies and hostility that's occurred in some situations.

Last of all YAY, Bigbrotiki is back!!! I'm glad.

[ Edited by: Coco Loco 2008-02-21 10:22 ]

HEY!!!!! Book idea here!..... 'THE BOOK of TIKI.....NOT!!'

Thank you for all those thoughtful posts, I now feel again that most of us are actually capable of adult intellectual exchange! :D

Here is my mea culpa: I really thought about what some Tiki "liberals" felt they had to defend....and my conclusion is: Their right to CONTRIBUTE. They wish to contribute, and that wish is very legitimate, and I do not negate that. The problem is one of unequality. Many TCers do not live in Tiki-rich states like California or Florida. Many are coming to this board late in the game, and VERY FEW have the experience and resources that I can offer (there are some that DO, but unfortunately choose to not post what they could). So it might come across as injust, and as arrogance when I "strutt my stuff", but believe me, I do it because I love Tiki and I want to share it, not to show off.

So, very much like Tiki Zen's summing up of his Tiki treasures, they choose to post what they CAN post about. And when I come along and put it in its place it is seen as me INVALIDATING their efforts. That is not my intention. I simply have to stick to my standards, and cannot give absolution for something I do not believe in. I am not TELLING THEM what to do, just giving my assessment.

If you would bring a Chinese vase onto Antiques Roadshow, and the appraiser would tell you it's a cheap imitation, would you get upset at him? No, plus you should feel free to take it back home and display it because YOU like it and it looks good in YOUR home. But if you would start to argue with the appraiser and insist "well it's made out of porcelain, could it not be a LITTLE bit authentic" you might get him a little agitated, and get him to make his point a little too forceful....like me. :)

And PLEASE, do NOT stop posting all that great Big Lots and Target Tiki stuff, that is one of the reasons why I love Tiki Central! Just don't get upset if someone tells you their honest opinion about it either.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-21 15:47 ]

On 2008-02-21 10:33, bigbrotiki wrote:
Thank you for all those thoughtful posts, I now feel again that most of us are actually capable of adult intellectual exchange! :D

Cheers to all of you making thoughtful posts that are adult and intelligent.

Don't forget to support your local tiki establishment and modern tiki artists by coming to the Tonga Hut art show on Saturday.

(Spam) :)

Thank you and welcome back, Sven! I have always viewed this as a forum that brings together everyone with a common passion, where ideas are freely and respectfully shared, and where the newbies can learn, the advanced folk can polish, and the experts can debate, and everyone benefits from the interaction. We all have areas within this subculture in which we excel, and others we are less familiar with. Gardening, sculpting, ceramics, and fashion are not my fuertes, but music and mixology are two areas of expertise I enjoy. They kinda go hand in hand, don't they? While I don't have much to say on the other topics, I'll chime in on music and mixology when I have something to say, and I still read up on other aspects of style in the other areas to keep learning.

What I have seen around here lately is a breakdown of decorum. It's too bad, but some people's communication skills are just wanting. I don't remember things being like this even a few years ago. I guess that too is the way of things, just something to be tolerated as this site continues to grow and evolve.

I do think that this discussion is important, and everyone's involvement is important. It's one of the areas where we are all on the same level. Everyone has an opinion and a perspective on Tiki's role in their life, and where they see the movement headed. Each contribution to this forum adds to the greater awareness of the individuals who make up this community.

Sometimes we just need to be reminded to relax, re-read, and try to find the deeper meaning of what someone is saying before whipping off a pissed-off or offended response. In a lot of cases here, people do know what they are talking about.

[ Edited by: GROG 2008-02-21 19:07 ]

P.S. :)

geeee... now i thought ive gotten alot better.

Ernie, sometimes you and your character can be very funny, and sometimes, like when people really make an effort to carefully compose posts and spend time and effort doing so, and all you can ad is jarring one liners, you are very un-funny.

I sometimes get annoyed when I perceive too much p.c. pussy-footing around a subject, and perhaps wrongly use strong terminology to try to wake people up and create a reaction, but in this case we had too much reaction already, lets encourage contribution of the intelligent kind, and not the other kind.

Where there is no past, there is no foundation, no history, no strength.
Where there is no future, there is no growth, no challenge, no life.

Where there is no sense of humor, there ain't no bloody fun.

Everyone's entitled to the validity of their view; parties may be picnics or black tie and still bring good company together; without definition there is no order, and without chaos there is no thrill.

Oooo.

Sex Pistols lyrics anyone?

Must have been the full... moon... eclipse!

Tiki is supposed to be fun, Period!

Take you away to a different day.

Crazy stuff went down back in the orignal days of tiki.

We need to get back to the roots of tiki and not think everyone acted like a picture.

Just my 2 cents.

( continue with the anal-ism)

we need to stop telling people what they need .....

...damn......i did it again.

On 2008-02-21 21:29, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
we need to stop telling people what they need .....

...damn......i did it again.

LOL!!!

Whoever said Tiki is about re-enactment of pictures? Tiki is about CONCEPTS, ideas. If you get into the original Tiki spirit, what will come out is original Tiki today. To do that though you need to soak up the culture of the ancestors. You can choose not to, but the result will be noticeably different, and lacking mana. :D

To elaborate: Tiki is not about intellectual concepts as much as it is about VISUAL concepts. The essence of Tiki is best absorbed by looking at visuals of its mid-century temples and its different classic forms. Visual images bypass the intellect to go straight to the gut, from where they are released again in new Tiki works that are a mixture of traditions and today's sensibilities.

S'true, folks, that's how the Book of Tiki has worked, and hopefully Tiki Modern will continue to work, on a new generation.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-21 22:38 ]

On 2008-02-21 21:22, RevBambooBen wrote:
Sex Pistols lyrics anyone?

Must have been the full... moon... eclipse!

Tiki is supposed to be fun, Period!

Take you away to a different day.

Crazy stuff went down back in the orignal days of tiki.

Full moon eclipse last night in Malibu

On 2008-02-21 09:09, GatorRob wrote:

On 2008-02-21 08:37, TikiLaLe wrote:
Maybe ne need 'you' to clean up this place ... Start with Tiki Marketplace... any body not selling 'poly-pop' out they f@cking go.. They you can hit Creating Tiki.. any schmuck with a chiesel that's not conforming out they f&cking go !!!!
etc. etc. etc.

Ugh. Again? TikiLaLe, what you need to understand is that Tiki Central is NOT an open forum where you can post anything you want, sell anything you want and say anything you want. This is a private forum owned by Hanford and he has invited you in to participate in his forum. Via the link at the top of the page, right under the Tiki Central logo, he has told you what is expected of you (and when I say "you", I mean all of us) and he has told you what the focus of Tiki Central is and what its focus is not. What Sven is doing is defending the definition of the style that he defined in the Book of Tiki. He has every right to do that. You may not agree with him, and that's fine. However, and this is the important part, the creator and owner of Tiki Central (Hanford) has subscribed to Sven's definition of tiki and has stated that celebrating and preserving tiki as defined in the Book of Tiki is the mission of Tiki Central. It doesn't mean discussing just vintage tiki. New tiki is included too, but new tiki that has roots in Poly Pop.

If there is any "cleaning up" of Tiki Central, it would be the responsibility of Hanford, not Sven. And Hanford would have every right to do it if he so chose. This is, after all, HIS site. Not yours and not mine. We don't get to define what Tiki Central is about. If we don't like it, we should go start our own Tiki Central. We should not fault Tiki Central for being what it is, nor should we fault people like Sven (and many others) who are trying to keep it on track. I simply don't understand the constant Sven bashing that is going on. If you don't subscribe to the mission statement of Tiki Central, then maybe this site isn't for you.

First sentence is kinda scary.. Maybe sitting in traffic on I-4 too long....

Interesting reading here. It looks like alot of misunderstanding.

Bigbro tiki came to town
Spreading wisdom and cash around
Fed the starving and housed the poor
Showed the vatican what golds for
But he made too many enemies
Of the people who would keep us on our knees
Hooray for bigbrotiki
Wholl pray for bigbrotiki?
Oh my!
bigbrotiki pulled them all
Emptied churches and shopping malls
Where he spoke, it would raise the roof
bigbrotiki told the truth
But he made too many enemies...
bigbrotiki put to shame
Governments who would slur his name
Plots and sex scandals failed outright
big bro merely said
Any kind of love is alright
But he made too many enemies...
bigbrotiki was too good
Had him nailed to a chunk of wood
He died grinning on live tv
Hanging there he looked a lot like you
And an awful lot like me!
But he made too many enemies...
Hooray for bigbrotiki
Wholl pray for bigbrotiki
Hooray for bigbrotiki
Oh my oh my oh!
Doesnt it make you want to cry oh?

tiki hammer

[ Edited by: tiki hammer 2008-02-22 06:24 ]

"You can't touch this."
MC Hammer

Just to reiterate :

"Tiki Central is a place to celebrate the classic Tiki Bars of the mid-century and the design aesthetic they established. This movement grew in popularity after World War II when America had a new fascination with the South Seas and Hawaii. Tiki Bars sought to bring an idealized tropical paradise into the concrete jungle of the Modern World. Very little of it was genuine -- born mostly out of the likes of Hollywood art directors and modern architects -- but it all seemed real to a then-naïve public’s eye. The Tiki style started in bars and restaurants but soon spilled over into all forms of popular culture, including music, food, dress, TV and movies, and other forms of architecture.

The Tiki that Tiki Central focuses on is a mid-century American invention that is Polynesia-inspired. We’re here to discuss classic Tiki, what made it great, how to celebrate it and preserve it today, and how to create and influence new Tiki that isn’t generic, watered down, or misguided. The definitive guide is The Book Of Tiki, and we highly recommend that everyone on Tiki Central get the book and read up.

What Tiki Central Isn't
Everyone here at Tiki Central is passionate about the Polynesian Pop movement. While the exact edges are blurry, we can give you a bit of insight into what Tiki Central is not about:

It’s not about Jimmy Buffett and Parrotheads
It’s not modern plastic, brightly-colored tiki party decorations
It’s not about the Caribbean/Key west design aesthetic
It’s not about Reggae
It’s not about African-art inspired masks/carvings/design
It’s not about Margaritas and tequila-based drinks
It's not about simply anything that has a tiki on it or in it
It is okay to like one or more of the above and be a member of Tiki Central, just remember that it's not our focus. There are plenty of places on the web for that. We encourage new users who may not know what Tiki is to read up, search our forums, and ask questions.

Further Reading
If you’d like to know more about the kind of Tiki that Tiki Central focuses on, and what we don't, we recommend the following:

The Book of Tiki (book)"