mug safety /lead tests

has anyone found dangerous lead levels in the older mugs? i drink out of them regularly. like right now. are their any to definitely avoid? thanks! luau63

[i]has anyone found dangerous lead levels in the older mugs?

Not me, but if you find dangerously high rum levels in your mug, just step aside and I'll handle it for you!

Actually it is a good question, since I have recently wondered about that too. Hopefully someone has found a way to lead test a mug and will let us know soon.

SugarCaddyDaddy

I've got good news and bad news.

Which do you want first? OK the good new: yes, tiki mugs can be tested for lead content; bad news: the entire mug gets destroyed in the process.

here's a nondestructive at home test kit:

http://www.leadtestkits.com

if you have more concerns, i've got a friend in environmental health and safety training, we can ask her questions..

elicia

[ Edited by: dogbytes on 2002-09-14 02:15 ]

I would never drink from my precious old mugs. I think that they are to be looked at and admired. I can tell you that everyone of them made before the 80's has lead based glaze and paint. However, some if fired to the right temp, you dont have to worry about. All you folks in California better worry more about what you breath rather than what you are drinking from.

Well I don't drink out my mugs either. But my school of thought on matters of safety is, the stronger the alcohol content the more germs and nasties are being killed.

Though I'm not sure if this applies to the things that are listed on the Table of Elements. :wink:

On 2002-09-14 08:57, tikimug wrote:
my school of thought on matters of safety is, the stronger the alcohol content the more germs and nasties are being killed.

Absolutely! I'm convinced that the booze vs bugs argument has a whole lot of merit. Personal testing around the dodgy restaurants around the Mediterranean has proven this to be true. Drink to excess in dubious eateries and at least your belly will be ok.

Trader Woody

On 2002-09-14 08:57, tikimug wrote:
my school of thought on matters of safety is, the stronger the alcohol content the more germs and nasties are being killed.

Actually this is not the case with lead. Lead is a toxic heavy metal linked with all sorts of nasty ailments, birth defects, etc. unfortunately it is also cumulative, meaning that the effects of exposure may not show up until years later. It was used and is present in many older ceramic pieces, including, presumably, Tiki mugs. This is especially bad for Tiki mugs because the citric acid in pineapple juice, lime juice, soda, etc. leaches the lead out faster. However, all modern "food grade" glazes (in the U.S. at least) are lead free. they can not be labeled for food use without being lead free, and no reputable mug maker would use a lead glaze on food or drink ware these days.(if you are concerned, and you should be, ask the maker) Sadly, I would leave the old stuff on the shelf, and get some modern mugs for everyday use. Hope this was more informative than scary!
Cheers!
Tiki King

[ Edited by: Tiki King on 2002-09-16 09:53 ]

On 2002-09-16 09:51, Tiki King wrote:

Actually this is not the case with lead. Lead is a toxic heavy metal linked with all sorts of nasty ailments, birth defects, etc. unfortunately it is also cumulative, meaning that the effects of exposure may not show up until years later.

Party Pooper! :P

Actually I agree with what you said King. That's why I mentioned about the metal elements at the end of my post. I was primarily talking about organic or biological nasties. And to that I still say...

Kill'em with booze!!!!

TikiKing,

Barnacles!!!

"Sadly, I would leave the old stuff on the shelf, and get some modern mugs for everyday use"

Just after I buy 8 old PMP mugs to use as the "house" mugs for the new home bar. Oh well, I will sell a few, and keep the rest for once in a while when I want to tempt fate and imbibe a wee bit of lead. Cannot do much worse than the other "hazmat" situations I have around this old apartment.

The older mugs are so much better than anything one sees produced nowadays (apart from some Munktiki items and the odd piece from indie makers).

Shazbat!
midnite

**Poly-Pop ***

Bartender, make mine a glass of WATAHHH!!!!!

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop 2013-02-04 20:33 ]

here are some more details...

Since the 1930s, the Food and Drug Administration has acted to protect the public from the hazards associated with excessive exposure to lead. These efforts, which have focused on lead from sources such as agricultural chemicals, lead-soldered cans, and glazes for ceramic ware, have resulted in a substantial decrease in dietary lead exposure. The dietary lead exposure for infants and children today is about one-tenth what it was10 years ago.

In its continuing program to reduce the public's exposure to dietary lead, FDA has revised its guidelines to lower the levels of lead that may leach from ceramic ware used to hold and store food. The revised levels reflect the agency's increased concern about the health consequences of human exposure to lead. FDA is also advising ceramic ware manufacturers to maintain careful quality control to minimize or eliminate the leaching of lead from their products. While the agency believes that most ceramic ware does not present a significant health hazard, it is concerned that some products can contribute lead to the diet. Consumers can take precautions to minimize lead exposure from ceramic ware.

Lead has long been recognized as a toxic substance. Adverse health effects--such as damage to the liver, kidneys and the nervous, reproductive, cardiovascular, immune, and gastrointestinal systems--may result from exposure to lead over months or years. Infants and children are most sensitive to lead exposure. Several recent studies have indicated that lead causes behavioral and performance deficiencies in children exposed to the substance at levels below those that produce physical effects.

Pregnant women should avoid lead exposure because of the sensitivity of the fetus to lead. Recent studies have shown that exposure of the fetus to low levels of lead in the mother's blood can impair fetal development and cause low birth weight.

The Hazards of Lead in Ceramic Ware

Lead glazes are used to produce a smooth, lustrous, and sometimes decorative coating on ceramic ware such as pottery, earthenware, bone china, and porcelain. The nonporous, glazed surfaces permit easy cleaning and contribute to good sanitation. If a glaze is improperly formulated or applied, however, or if the piece is improperly fired during the manufacturing process, large quantities of lead may leach from the glaze into food contained in the vessel. Even with properly glazed pieces, some lead may migrate to food; however, the amounts will be much lower than with poorly glazed pieces.

FDA samples and tests for lead leaching from imported and domestic ceramic ware sold in this country. However, the agency cannot check all ceramic ware. In 1986 alone, 873 million pieces of ceramic ware were imported into the United States in 46,000 shipments. In addition, products that enter the country through informal channels, such as those brought by travelers from abroad, are not monitored by FDA. These products may pose the greatest potential hazard because they may not have been produced using appropriate quality control procedures for glazing.

New Lead Levels

In 1971, FDA set informal guidelines for levels of lead leaching from ceramic ware products. These levels were tightened in 1979. They are now being further reduced because new information shows that lead can adversely affect the fetus, young children, and adults in amounts well below those previously believed harmful. The guideline levels for lead leaching from ceramic ware are being reduced as follows:

from 7 to 3 parts per million (ppm) for plates, saucers, and other flatware

from 5 to 2 ppm for small holloware such as cereal bowls, but not cups and mugs

from 5.0 to 0.5 ppm for cups and mugs

from 2.5 to 1.0 ppm for large (greater than 1.1 liters) holloware such as bowls, but not pitchers

from 2.5 to 0.5 ppm for pitchers.

The amount of lead leaching from the pieces is measured in a standard test involving 24-hour contact of the piece with an acid solution.
Guidelines for Consumers

The particular piece of ceramic ware and the conditions and patterns of its use affect the amount of lead to which a consumer may be exposed. More attention should be given to items used daily rather than infrequently.

Acidic foods such as orange, tomato and other juices; tomato-based products; wines; and vinegar-containing foods cause more lead to be leached into the food than do nonacidic foods such as water or milk. Similarly, more lead will leach into hot liquids, such as coffee, tea or tomato soup, than into cold beverages and foods. For example, frequent use of a lead-glazed mug for hot beverages is likely to increase lead exposure. Further, longer contact times, as when liquid foods are stored, may increase lead leaching. On the other hand, foods that are dry, nonacidic, and have little contact with the container, such as pretzels or candy, are not a problem.

If you don't know whether or not a particular item is lead-glazed, follow these guidelines to minimize the potential for exposure to lead, especially for children and pregnant women:

Do not store acidic foods in ceramic ware.

Limit the use of antiques or collectibles for food or beverages to special occasions.

Stop using items that show a dusty or chalky gray residue on the glaze after they are washed.

Follow label directions on ornamental ware that states, "Not for Food Use--Plate May Poison Food. For Decorative Purposes Only."

Do not store food or beverages in vessels that are highly decorated on the inside.

Be alert to conditions and patterns of use of ceramic ware that can increase lead exposure.

Acidic foods, high temperatures, and increased time of contact with food contribute to greater leaching of lead from the container to the food. Frequent use of the piece also will increase exposure to lead.
Testing for Lead

The amount of lead leaching from suspect items, such as highly decorated ceramic ware, can be tested in a commercial laboratory, but these tests are relatively expensive.

FDA is aware of three manufacturers marketing test kits for consumers to use at home. These kits were designed to test ceramic ware relative to the former guidelines, however, and their ability to detect lead release at the new, lower levels cannot be ensured. Nevertheless, they continue to be valuable for identifying items that release larger amounts of lead and should be considered for checking suspect items. These kits and their approximate costs are:

Test for Lead in Pottery ($25) and The FRANDON Lead Alert Kit ($29.95), Frandon Enterprises Inc., P.O. Box 300321, Seattle, Wash. 98103; telephone1-800-359-9000.

LeadCheck Swabs ($30), HybriVet Systems, Inc., P.O. Box 1210, Framingham, Mass. 01701; telephone 1-800-262-LEAD.

Lead Inspector ($20.95), distributed by Michigan Ceramic Supplies, 4048 Seventh Street, P.O. Box 342, Wyandotte, Mich. 48192; telephone 1-800-860-2332.

So there you have it...

http://www.tikiking.com Neat Tiki Stuff
http://www.mp3.com/tiki_king Hear the King sing!

[ Edited by: Tiki King on 2002-09-16 12:44 ]

On 2002-09-16 12:36, PolynesianPop wrote:
I mean, alcohol - a large part of what we drink is not exactly the healthiest thing to ingest.

I only use Healthy Choice Organic Rums and mixers, so all my cocktails are low calorie and good for you! At least, that's what the manufacturer says.

:wink:

-Mike

tiki king, you absolutely rock! i had no idea you were so versed in health/safety matters. i thought you were some rum-addled, irreverent party machine. thanks for the information- now i'll drink from modern mugs only. luau63

Thanks, but just to be clear, I AM a rum-addled, irreverent party machine.
Cheers!
T.K.

A good old thread with some great info. I was wondering if anyione had done any mug tests and what their results were. It might be helpful to post the info for specific types of mugs.(Paul Marshal monkey mug, etc.)

I drank a Planters Punch from one of Chiki Tiki Diablo's mugs last weekend -- and I got totally wasted.... damn that lead.

Dem mugs is lead free inside. Pop, you just a light-weight. Don't hate...

[ Edited by: thechikitiki on 2003-08-30 00:58 ]

King has some good info there on lead. The only thing I would add is that it is incredibly difficult to formulate a durable glaze wihtout lead compared to one with it. Consequently, major glaze manufacturers still use it. They pay $$thousands$$ every month for testing, testing, and more testing to make sure they don't get busted by the FDA or EPA. Lead is in very small amounts in just about any commercial plate, bowl, mug you own.
My philosophy is to not worry about it too much. These guidlines have been around for a short time and my great-grandmother just died last year at the age of 104, not due to lead exposure. And we know she owned some leaded plates in her time...

BTW.. if a small producer tells you that there's no lead, see if they make their own glaze. If so, then they are telling the truth because we can't afford expensive testing (or litigation !!), so we just don't keep lead in the studio. Simple.

[ Edited by: Saint-Thomas on 2003-09-01 06:43 ]

Nowdays, I'd be more worried about the smog that comes from the truck that delivers the mug and the rum and the fruit and the.....you know, that brown shit in the air we breathe everyday and night. That's whats killing us off!

I, too, have been wondering about these vintage mugs and whether I should be imbibing from them. I used to work for Williams-Sonoma in the product information dept where we did lead testing on all products before they would be carried by WS. I recommend getting the "swabs" someone else posted about and just checking the lead levels before drinking out of any of your vintage tikis. Especially because acidic foods (like citrus juices) can increase the amount of lead leached from the glaze. Also be wary of those mugs which have crazing on the interior surface.

However, it should be noted that those primarily at risk from increased lead levels are children (who shouldn't be drinking those rum cocktails anyway), the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. In addition, women who are pregnant or plan to become pregnant are at a much higher risk because of passage of the lead levels onto the fetus.

For most healthy adults who have the occasional mai tai out of their favorite tiki, even a heightened lead level will probably never lead to illness.

Back at WS, the biggest culprits were:

1. Earthenware from Mexico
2. Green glazes with a "metallic" sheen
3. Mustard-colored glazes

Swabs: http://www.leadcheck.com/lead-summary.shtml#swab

Sorry to revisit such an old topic, but I recently tested all of my tiki mugs for lead using the LeadCheck swabs. The only positive result was my Don the Beachcomber vintage long neck mug, but it was a definite hit—to the point where I'll likely wash my hands any time I handle the mug. :o

If you plan to drink out of your vintage mugs it would be strongly advised to test them first.

Edit: Actually, one of the other swabs is now starting to turn pink. It looks as if something else contains lead chromate. I have some suspicions but will post more once I confirm.

Edit 2: It was the design on a vintage Honi Honi cup.

[ Edited by: TikiTacky 2013-07-16 17:08 ]

[ Edited by: TikiTacky 2013-07-16 17:13 ]

On 2013-07-16 17:02, TikiTacky wrote:
Sorry to revisit such an old topic,

Yeahno. No need to be sorry. This is a very legitimate bump of an old topic. Thanks for the input. I may give that a try considering there's no mug of mine I don't drink out of. Mahalo.

It's a good thread to bring up again.
Tiki King posted some good information. Lead doesn't have a safety threshold. Tiny amounts of the material can damage internal organs and the central nervous system.
You also can't flush it out of your system, not matter what Hollywood cleansing scams tell you. Lead just keeps building up in your system.
Enough on that cheery subject!

:drink:

Here's an interesting article: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/04/several-months-ago-gerald-omalley/#.Uebn4j2ARAo

"The results of the [2010] study were shocking. O’Malley and his fellow researchers found that 22 out of the 87 items purchased from stores within the Chinatown district, approximately 25 percent, returned positive results for lead. In comparison, 5 out of the 49 items purchased in stores in neighborhoods outside of Chinatown, or 10 percent, contained lead. "

"O’Malley performed additional tests on 25 of the ceramic pieces that tested positive for lead contamination to establish how high the levels, in fact, were and to what extent the lead could leach into food placed in the items to later be consumed. Researchers noted that three plates and two spoons were found to be leaching lead in quantities that significantly exceeded the levels permitted by FDA. Specifically, one of the ceramic plates tested leached lead at 145 parts per million, a rate far beyond the limit of 2 parts per million imposed by FDA."

The FDA imposed limits on lead in 1971, but before that there really weren't any limits. Any mugs made before 1970 (hah!) should be considered suspect.

More information available here: http://www.ceh.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=435&Itemid=274

[ Edited by: TikiTacky 2013-07-17 13:30 ]

AW shoot!
So now I'm going to have to test all my vintage mugs.
There I was blissfully ignoring the threat until it was pointed out :)
After a quick run through of Ooga Mooga I see at least 150 individual items that I should check!
(Plus, who knows how up to date my collection is on there! I always seem to over look a few.)
The best pricing I could find BTW is on Amazon, 48 swaps for $95.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-051141936857-LeadCheck-Swabs-48-Pack/dp/B0051VAS1Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1374685064&sr=1-1&keywords=lead+check+swabs
Great, $2 per mug for a couple hundred mugs, but at least I'll have piece of mind!

Be sure to let us know your results!

Now my hot sauce contains lead too! I've eaten 3 of the 4 brands mentioned many, many times over the years.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Study-Finds-Dangerous-Levels-of-Lead-in-Hot-Sauces-From-Mexico-216629201.html

On 2013-07-24 10:00, Pittsburgh pauly wrote:
Great, $2 per mug for a couple hundred mugs, but at least I'll have piece of mind!

Do you use all of your vintage mugs? Curious why you would test them all. Indeed, please post results. This never crossed my mind, then again, I don't really use my vintage mugs in battle.

Oh no! Not lead in hot sauce too! El Yucateca makes some decent sauces. Boo!

I know that there is no lead in my hot sauce, so I'll just have to make sure I have it on me always. Tastes better anyway...

Back to mugs - I usually use newer mugs for my drinks, those vintage ones tend to cost more so I don't want to break them. Too bad about the DTB mug. I guess I wouldn't worry too much about it, but it is good knowledge to have.