Not Tiki! (Now With 20% More Essays On Underappreciated Music!)

I have been racking my brain for 7 years trying to figure out why Hawaiian related stuff is not tiki, yet punk rock and fezzes are. If someone can explain it to me, maybe it would make sense why punk bands and "munster" riffs are featured at THE Tiki event, "tiki oasis" while a vintage hapa haole band is not welcome. Check out the smokin' menehunes myspace and listen to our songs, and then someone please tell me how this is not the correct sound for a tiki event, let alone a tiki bar.

Flores... flores para los muertos! (Said in an scary old woman's trembling voice tone...)

On 2010-11-03 23:06, Zeta wrote:
Flores... flores para los muertos!

On 2010-11-03 22:59, woofmutt wrote:

I don't know HOW many times I have to explain this!

The Tiki Movement was a mid-20th century phenomenon based on the U.S. Mainland. This picture is of statues which are NOT U.S. Made, and have been dated to between 1100-1600 AD, making them DEFINATELY NOT TIKI.

When white Americans visited Easter Island in the 1950's and brought back images of the Tikis they saw there, the pictures themselves were Tiki but - NOT THE ORIGINAL STATUES. Get it? I don't want to explain this anymore.

Also, the photo you see looks very modern, it was not taken in the 1950's and thus even this photo itself is NOT TIKI.

Also, you are looking at this photo in the 21st Century. So the very act of looking at it and thinking "Hey, those are pretty cool Tikis, they sure are big, I wonder how long it would take Buzzy to carve one?" is NOT TIKI, it is in fact a modern day appreciation of the Retro Tiki Movement that has already gone by.

I don't know how to make this idea more clear to you. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Nice tikis!

I was being silly Cammo.

Jeff(btd)

Not Tiki

"I was being silly Cammo."

Actually, so was I. I agree with everything Lucas has been saying, in fact I agree with every single post Lucas has ever made on TC, except the ones about the Beatles!!!!

It's absurd to say that Hawaiiana isn't part of the Tiki movement, holy crap you'd have to have nails driven into your brain, drink a barrel of 2000 proof rum, AND watch every episode of Glee to be brain damaged enough to think that Hawaii, original Tikis and uke music isn't "Tiki".

How many times do I have to explain this stuff to you guys?!?!??!

Not Tiki. But I WANT IT!

On 2010-11-04 14:33, Cammo wrote:
"I was being silly Cammo."

Actually, so was I. I agree with everything Lucas has been saying, in fact I agree with every single post Lucas has ever made on TC, except the ones about the Beatles!!!!

It's absurd to say that Hawaiiana isn't part of the Tiki movement, holy crap you'd have to have nails driven into your brain, drink a barrel of 2000 proof rum, AND watch every episode of Glee to be brain damaged enough to think that Hawaii, original Tikis and uke music isn't "Tiki".

How many times do I have to explain this stuff to you guys?!?!??!

I am glad at least ONE person sees the logic in it.

But before I get pegged as being too much a purist when it comes to Tiki music (I tend to mostly talk about the music aspect of this forum if you haven’t noticed!) it’s important to note that I like pretty much all the bands that regularly post on this forum. All of them are highly creative and interesting, not to mention talented….but I have to be honest and question the true relation to “Tiki” of most of them. The only reason it matters personally to me, is that I see many of them having MUCH more success and exposure then my personal band, The Smokin’ Menehunes. Yes, I am totally jealous. Yes, it pisses me off. And I would submit that it would piss anyone off who has been slogging away at a project for 7 years only to play to an empty room. That’s ridiculous. If we sucked eggs, I would expect it…but we don’t. We are actually a really good and tight band playing a style of music that the average garage rock musician probably cannot duplicate, due to the large amount of “Jazz” chords and structures that Hapa Haole music uses.

The way I see Tiki central, unfortunately (and I am stating this out of a sincere desire to see things change) is akin to saying you like Ska music, and having a forum dedicated to it. BUT, on that forum we only talk about new bands like No Doubt, and the earlier Ska bands like the specials or even earlier like the skatellites, are totally boycotted by the forum! That makes no sense! Should not the roots of the movement be revered, and those who can do a really good duplication of it be a bit more popular?

An even better analogy would be a reggae talk forum, but when you view it every other thread is about “Reggaeton” (a form of rap music loosely based on reggae) and hardly anyone talks about Bob Marley!

That’s the way I feel when I look at California events on tiki central and see that what is being talked about, what gets the most buzz are all the surf rock bands and punk rock bands that have a tiki or two in a song title…

That’s what I question about things. I totally understand that things need to evolve or they stagnate and die. So, philosophically I am not against some modern surf band or garage band or punk band that has plenty of tiki imagery but bills themselves as “exotica” when they clearly have a very nebulous relationship to exotica…and I do wish a band like that all the success in the world…but yes, it bothers me that a more pure, authentic band that glorifies the roots and beginnings of something are virtually ignored.

In a perfect Tiki world, you would have both the old and the new celebrated (like it says on the main tiki central page)..but with the exception of collecting artifacts, this forum leans very heavily to the modern interpretation of tiki, so much so that the old is ignored almost completely.

Personally, I listen to a lot of Hapa Haole music. To me, not only is it the sound of Hawaii but it is the sound of Tiki. Big time! The steel guitar, the strumming ukulele, beautiful classy vocals with haunting and romantic lyrics…this is what I associate with Tiki FIRST.

The sound of a steel guitar, instantly paints an impression in my mind of tiki, and it always has since I was a little kid. I remember riding “small world” in Disneyland, and if you recall, as soon as you get to the tropical section the theme song mutates into percussion and steel guitar! The little hula dolls dancing..the smoking tiki god idols! Wow! I know it is basically a cartoon come to life, but in my mind Walt Disney nailed it!

Then there is the famous brady bunch goes to Hawaii episode. That one made a huge impression on a land- locked suburban kid like me! And the music you hear in the beginning is all steel guitar as they are driving around the island taking in all the sights! How I use to dream of that vista from Mt. Tantalus!!

On another subject, I feel the same way about exotica music, but we have to consider the fact that “exotica” music was really only seen live in a few places. The Shell bar in Waikiki and maybe a couple of other places. But as I have said before, it was not really what you would see if you had gone to one of these kitschy Polynesian joints back in the day. It would have been the Luau and everything that goes with it..and that means hula dancers, hapa haole bands and Polynesian drumming.

No, I am not talking about ethnologically correct presentations of primitive pacific islander culture. After all, poi tastes pretty bad, human sacrifices and slavery are never fun to watch or engage in, and the ancient Hawaiian martial art of Lua is all about breaking your enemy’s bones with your hands. Fun stuff, not!

I am not a big fan of more modern Hawaiian stuff like Jawaiian or even slack key guitar..too folksy for my tastes. Nor do I like Hawaiian soft rock like cecilio and kapono or even bruddah iz. Yes, they are talented but by every definition, I see little relation to Tiki.

But something like Hapa Haole music? It’s mostly sung in English. The chords are jazz based. Only rarely were ancient melodies adapted for this style of music. And it was written during the golden age of Tiki! My point is that the music is inauthentic enough, and inauthenticity is really what we are all enjoying about tiki culture as it is. But it is really a stretch to include loud rock bands in tiki events. At least at the volume and amount they do on this forum. After all, did they really have a lot of distorted or effected electric guitar back in the 40’s and 50’s? Would Don Beach or Vic Bergeron have wanted a band wearing wrestling masks with loud guitars playing in the bar?

In the modern Tiki scene, there are only a few bands that I know about that are playing the real deal. My band, the Mai Kai Gents, and the Sweet Hollywaiians. ( There are more in Europe but they really don’t have much to do with this forum.)

I just worry about the day when we are gone, and unfortunately, it will eventually happen. Then, will people be pining away for the good old days? Why not come to a hapa haole gig NOW, while it is still happening! Do you know how much research and love for this music people like me have done and have exhibited? A great deal of thought and care went into the songs my band plays. No, they are not originals. They are the classics, timeless classics!

A perfect romantic evening for you and your significant other is only made better by listening to the romantic songs sung by a veteran (and true Hawaiian kane!) like Palika “Pat” Enos. How charming and quaint! I say give it a chance! You can see rock bands and punk bands and surf bands any day of the week. They have been here for 30 years and will always be here…but a real hapa haole band? This is a rare thing, friends!

So, I find myself agreeing with Telescopes completely. How shocked I was that two years ago, Tiki Oasis was basically one big mosh pit featuring exactly what he described. The Ghastly Ones and the Creepy Creeps headlining? Yes, they are super good bands! I actually like them a lot….but they are not tiki, not even close. I just say that if you want to balance things out, you should at least have a real hapa haole band in there! I get the whole diversity thing…but you need something authentic too. Bring things back to Tiki, real Tiki!

Someone needs to start a petition and get us the hell in there! Support your local hapa haole band because one day it won’t be there!

And please, don’t read into this that I am insulting or disrespecting the modern tiki-like bands. I am not. I love most of them. I just want to see the day come when you can go to an event and hear both the old and the new. Lately, I feel the old style of hapa haole has just been overlooked or boycotted in some situations…is that right? Right now the music scene on tiki central is really lopsided, partisan and biased towards everything but hapa haole music. The norm seems to be Johnny Aloha and Richard Cheese, who are somewhat making fun of tiki and lounge culture. Makes me wonder if Arthur Lyman was alive today (and younger) would anyone really be going to see him play from this forum if he were appearing at Don’s?

And frankly, even If I was not in a hapa haole band and had no personal stake in any of this, I would feel the same way.

That’s my story and I am sticking to it!

And PS I want to make a shot out to an excellent exotica band that I feel are soul brothers to the smokin’ menehunes..and that is the Stolen Idols. These guys are very much interested in the authentic version of exotica music. They are worth checking out!

Am I the only one that thinks this pooch looks a bit light in the loafers? Reminds me of the lead singer from Queen (sorry, I don't remember his name 'cause that shit just falls right out of my head!)

On 2010-11-04 10:16, woofmutt wrote:

Lucas, I couldn't agree with you more. You nailed it exactly. I do believe that I have an answer for you as to why The Smokin Menehunes are not supported on this forum as they should be. It's simple, really. You aren't PUNK.

Several years ago, it was made crystal clear to me on these forum pages that many, many, many of the fans of tiki on this site were previous fans of punk rock. I pre-date this movement and because of this fact, I often feel very uneasy and at a loss as what to say when I am with many of the people who frequent tikicentral.

It's like a non jock being around a bunch of jocks. You feel out-of-place. But the funny thing is, if everyone was truly in interested in the tiki culture for what it was and is, I shouldn't feel out of place.

So why do I. Because so many of the previous "punks" have co-opted tiki and remade it in their own image. Take a look at the low brow art movement as it pertains to tiki. Huh? Where's the connection. And don't try to say VELVET PAINTINGS. Seriously, while I respect much of the art work of the low brow artist, their art is not tiki. It is rather low brow art influenced by tiki.

And there's the rub. Your band is for all intense purposes, Hawaiian influenced tiki - traditional tiki - The Real McCoy. Thee Swank Bastards - ah, not so much. Could one force a connection between tiki and the Bastards. No. But one could make a connection between punk rock, punksters who like tiki, and the Bastards. That is possible.

I contend that way too much punk influenced low brow has come to be taken as authentic tiki.

All of these musical expressions have a place.

When AtomicTikiPunk asked the question, "Can we Talk?" (okay, I took liberties with his quote), this is what I would like to have said in response.

Okay, circle the wagons and shoot at me. I'm ready.

I'm a 2nd-generation (too late for the Masque) LA Punk fan...

and I LOVE the Smokin' Menehunes !!

Really lookin' forward to the Bahooka show. :)

Lucas,
I am a fan of surf, and a bit of garage,
and grew up listening to Metal, and a bit of Punk,

I totally appreciate and Love Exotica, and Happa Haole and Slack Key music.
and go and support the Menehunes whenever I can.

But I think you are way off in thinking that the Majority of Tiki people go to surf shows,
and boycott or stay away from your shows.

There are a tiny bit of tiki people in So.Cal. that appreciate surf music,
and go to shows in So. Cal. (maybe 1 out of 50 shows)
(or 1 out of 10 surf shows at Dons).
But I would assume most tiki people are just tolerant of Surf,
and not really Fans.

I was blown away that the 15 to 20 Tiki People that came to my Surf Music convention.
You and Spike being 2 of them(thank you)
But I think they came because they were friends or acquaintances.
Had Joe schmoe guy put on the event,
none of them would have gone.

I will admit that Surf is vaguely related to (Hawaii,Hawaiian music, tiki)
some here would dis-agree.

So don't think that the surf shows I post about, are taking the tiki people away from your shows.

first, I would assume most tiki people don't get the old timey vibe of the music.
and second, Most of the tiki people are probably looking at, making, or bidding on tiki art, and or mugs.

Love ya buddy,
but there is a conspiracy to keep Bong and the Menehunes off of TC,
and out of tiki events.
Jeff(btd)

If the Smokin Menehunes are NOT TIKI, then I can post this here. At Oasis IV in the Reef bar... :down:

This question about the Menehunes seems to be coming up a lot, but I'm not sure if it's a strawman premise. Does being more or less "Tiki" help or hurt a band increase their audience?

As for these forums, Tiki Central's working definition of Tiki Music includes Hawaiian, and Hapa Haole by proxy even if not by name. Is there anyone really beating the drum that the Smoky Menehunes are not tiki, shouldn't be discussed on TC, shouldn't be at tiki events, etc? If it's an actual two-sided debate, then I don't have any insight to add, since I thought the Smoldering Menehunes were clearly part of TC's notion of Tiki Music. If that's unanimous though, then please disregard my Oasis IV photo above, since that'd be not not tiki.

Now THIS is not tiki... :down:

-Randy

Actually, it was suggested several different times to me by separate people in PMs that we are Hawaiiana, and not tiki. And of course, judging by the fact that we were never to play oasis again since that 04 event.....

In all seriousness (well, at least as much seriousness as I'm capable of mustering) here again we find in this thread a fine example why...

Off topic discussions should be taken to a new thread or an appropriate existing thread.

This thread was began as an abstract nonsensical absurdist reaction (my favorite kind of reaction) to some supposedly serious thing. (What exactly the supposedly serious thing was slips my mind at the moment.)

The discussion about what music is Tiki or not Tiki***** that has been inserted in among the definitely not Tiki images in this thread is a worthy (though well worn) discussion in its own right and one which is deserving of its own thread.

But as the discussion is buried in my hilarious Not Tiki! thread it will not be seen by many people who never come to Bilge or who hate me with a passion which could only have been forged in in the fiery hell of seven years, five months, and twenty-one days of awful matrimony. (Yes, Trish, I know you lurk here.)

Inserting a well reasoned thoughtful discussion into a throw away thread such as Not Tiki! is like publishing an excellent story by an underappreciated sci-fi master in a porno mag. Most people looking at the pictures here will skip over the words, most people interested in the words won't be looking at this thread.

I've made this point many time before on Tiki Central and I'm sure I'll make it again as repeating ourselves seems to be our second favorite activity on here.

*****As our favorite past time on Tiki Central is defining whether something is Tiki or not can't we just start saying something "is T" or "not T" ?

On 2010-11-05 17:23, woofmutt wrote:
In all seriousness (well, at least as much seriousness as I'm capable of mustering) here again we find in this thread a fine example why...

I've made this point many time before on Tiki Central and I'm sure I'll make it again as repeating ourselves seems to be our second favorite activity on here.

*****As our favorite past time on Tiki Central is defining whether something is Tiki or not can't we just start saying something "is T" or "not T" ?

Woofmutt, the beauty of Tikicentral is how conversation about tiki often morphs from one defined "thing" into something else. Lucus's monolog could not have occurred anywhere else. You piled the kindling, you soaked it in gas, and woof, it turned into something other than the bonfire you expected.

That is exactly what happens with tiki.

As far as starting another thread, now the proverbial cat is out of the bag - Are the Smokin Menehunes tiki - you can be sure the embers started here will begin to travel elsewhere.

And, haven't we already smelled the smoke in other threads. Of course we have. Lucas has been strumming this counter melody about the S.M. not being respected for at least the last few months.

But here, in this thread, the embers have finally ignited. Did you know that Jeff {btd} thought there was a real conspiracy regarding the S.M.'s. I didn't- although I should have since he has thought out loud about this possibility before in other threads.

No, I say this is exactly why we ultimately have Bilge in Tiki Central. It is a playground for thinking a loud or as is mostly the case, belching.

It's like going to a fine restaurant and ordering everything on the menu. In a bucket.

You do that too?!

On 2010-11-05 22:04, woofmutt wrote:
It's like going to a fine restaurant and ordering everything on the menu. In a bucket.

And the greatest part is, when your through eating, there is a bucket standing by for the (upchuck) finaly.

Good Times!

On 2010-11-05 22:04, woofmutt wrote:
It's like going to a fine restaurant and ordering everything on the menu. In a bucket.

Hay!!!