Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

Of course, Palm Springs' Caliente Tropics, remains a desert Tiki mecca:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31752&forum=1&hilite=caliente%20tropics

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=23340&forum=1&hilite=caliente%20tropics

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=23222&forum=17&hilite=caliente%20tropics

[ Edited by: christiki295 2011-02-01 17:39 ]

"...why the formerly Hanalei hotel became a beige walled palace of boredom. But there are places like “rainforest café” that though obviously not tiki, still have a childish and inaccurate form of escapism..."

That's my point, that as soon as you think you've nailed down a cohesive reason, another example pops up of the success of the exact opposite! If beige is a color everyone "likes" and feels "homey with", why is Rainforest Cafe such a big deal? Why is there no beige in Disneyland? Why no beige in Las Vegas? Or Joe's Crab Shack, or 94th Aero Squadron, or Lucille's BBQ, or countless other corporate-controlled theme destinations? Why in fact is there nothing ENTERTAINING at the Hanalei anymore? The answer is much more elusive than you'd think, and throwing blame around on the managers or the public ain't gonna cut it.

Beige by the way has even been scoured from the walls of Nordstroms and Neiman Marcus, it's all black and white and dark 50's-era decorations there now. It's weird.

Don't worry. I have the reason. It was told to me by some of the managers at the Hanalei and two other hotels nearby who will remain nameless (to protect the guilty.) At least 2 people have come really REALLY close, but haven't nailed it.

You really have to think like THEM not like us to understand. And it's pretty simple. . .

On 2011-02-01 17:38, christiki295 wrote:
Of course, Palm Springs' Caliente Tropics, remains a desert Tiki mecca:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31752&forum=1&hilite=caliente%20tropics

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=23340&forum=1&hilite=caliente%20tropics

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=23222&forum=17&hilite=caliente%20tropics

[ Edited by: christiki295 2011-02-01 17:39 ]

Ahh, I dunno. As someone who lives here, the hotel is tiki enough but the bar is dead as a door nail.

Lucas, evolution is a fact of life. That said, what would tiki look like now had it not been erased from the fossil record during the 80's and 90's. What would a young Steven Crane build today if he were around to build something?

Where does DTB in Sunset fit in? Where does Tiki Ti fit in and where does someplace like Tiki No fit in.

If Bosko and Jeff Berry were going to build a restaurant today, what would it look like?

I think the drinks might very well include traditional drinks, but you would also see a lot of fusion happening as well. The art work would be very much more 21st century primitive rather than post primitive. Remember, you are building a place for the masses and that this is a good thing.

Weirdly enough, Jimmy Buffet's place in Las Vegas attracts people for a reason - it has a vibe to it.

So, Lucas, and everyone else, what would a young Steven Crane or the owners of the Mai Kai build today if they were here to do so?

Maybe something really cool? Those cats had style, and a sense of whimsy....plus an exploratory spirit of adventure...who knows? Of course, my post was trying to relate the decline of tiki places to the decline of tiki/lounge music in general...because that's the only aspect of tiki I really feel comfortable talking about anyway.

On 2011-02-01 18:43, lucas vigor wrote:
Maybe something really cool? Those cats had style, and a sense of whimsy....plus an exploratory spirit of adventure...who knows? Of course, my post was trying to relate the decline of tiki places to the decline of tiki/lounge music in general...because that's the only aspect of tiki I really feel comfortable talking about anyway.

But I think you nailed it. It's about the wimsy, isn't it.

On 2011-02-01 18:17, Cammo wrote:
"...why the formerly Hanalei hotel became a beige walled palace of boredom. But there are places like “rainforest café” that though obviously not tiki, still have a childish and inaccurate form of escapism..."

That's my point, that as soon as you think you've nailed down a cohesive reason, another example pops up of the success of the exact opposite! If beige is a color everyone "likes" and feels "homey with", why is Rainforest Cafe such a big deal? Why is there no beige in Disneyland? Why no beige in Las Vegas? Or Joe's Crab Shack, or 94th Aero Squadron, or Lucille's BBQ, or countless other corporate-controlled theme destinations? Why in fact is there nothing ENTERTAINING at the Hanalei anymore? The answer is much more elusive than you'd think, and throwing blame around on the managers or the public ain't gonna cut it.

Beige by the way has even been scoured from the walls of Nordstroms and Neiman Marcus, it's all black and white and dark 50's-era decorations there now. It's weird.

Don't worry. I have the reason. It was told to me by some of the managers at the Hanalei and two other hotels nearby who will remain nameless (to protect the guilty.) At least 2 people have come really REALLY close, but haven't nailed it.

You really have to think like THEM not like us to understand. And it's pretty simple. . .

Maybe they were just trying to find a look that went with the nasty Casino carpet that they picked?

Why wouldn't they change it? We all go there anyway. Once a year, the highest high of the tiki almighty give them their highest grossing weekend of the year.

Caliente Tropics was celebrated. It's remodel (transitioning back to it's tiki glory), is what inspired Tiki Oasis.

Once the event outgrew the Tropics, it moved to the Hanalei and we now reward tiki destruction.

You know what would be cool? Go the other direction and make some place that wasn't before, tiki!

Paradise point in san diego used to be called vacation village back in the 70's. We used to go their for mini-vacations. The whole "island" was filled, I mean filled with ornamental tropical foliage! The bar used to be some sort of theme bar, perhaps tiki (I was too young to go in) but when I went back a few years ago there was a fake lava walkway leading into the bar (which was sunken) and a rather ornate "castle" style door...

Anyway, imagine what a bamboo ben or crazy al could do if you let them run wild and convert the entire hotel into a tiki island! Then have your Tiki Oasis there.

http://www.hotels.com/ho179043/paradise-point-sea-world-san-diego-united-states/

http://soundcloud.com/search?q[fulltext]=Lucas+Vigor

"yer jus not tuned into the series of tubes yet, let it soak in".

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2011-02-01 21:02 ]

On 2011-02-01 20:59, lucas vigor wrote:
You know what would be cool? Go the other direction and make some place that wasn't before, tiki!

That's what Rory is going to do for Tiki Caliente 3. He's booked a Travel Lodge that's not tiki themed and along with the attendees is going to convert it for the weekend for the event. The de-evoultion will not be televised!

OK...

When you make your establishment look like everyone else's with a bland, neutral tone to the color, decor, style, etc., it's makes it easier to sell to other corperations who might be interested in buying the place if the present owners want to dump the property. If a potential buyer can buy a property that looks really similar to their other properties, the cost to make it "their own" is minimal, and thusly, very attractive.

The Hanalei has been bought and sold twice since Tiki Oasis moved there, and perhaps the current owners are hedging their bets "just in case".

By the way, the great tiki stuff that got chucked in the dumpster was "rescued" by the gardeners and now resides in various places throughout Tiajuana. They tried to get me and my wife to go down there and buy some of the "Azteca" things they took out of the trash when we were at the first T.O. there in the parking lot.

We didn't go. We bought something else from them...

All very nicely put, Randy, and though it does not address the Hanalei question, I especially like the "Rot, Attrition, Inheritance" section, because it describes the reasons for Tiki devolution on a human, individual level:

On 2011-02-01 14:27, aquarj wrote:
ROT, ATTRITION, INHERITANCE
The historical narratives for many midcentury tiki temples are often punctuated (or ended) with the need for major repairs due to rot, mold, etc. In parallel with the physical decay over the passage of years is the simultaneous disenchantment with the original concept and fantasy. Whether a place remains in the hands of the original visionary, or has passed to a next generation, it's easy for the dream to lose its luster over time with the daily grind of upkeep. So imagine an owner facing massive impending renovation costs and dwindling attendance coupled with their own fatigue running the day to day enterprise. They're stuck. If they put off the repairs, this could lead to any number of unappetizing outcomes, including even being shutdown by the local authorities. If they want to take on the repairs, now they have to face a whole new set of regulations, inspectors, and other busybodies who make it nearly impossible to even just re-create what's already there. It's very hard to make the case that they should up the ante with their personal stake in the place, as opposed to the attractive option of selling. With the rarest of exceptions, whatever entity comes along with the financial means to buy the place will have even less stake in the original dream. Not only that, but from the buyer's perspective it's hard to escape seeing the "features" of the original vision more as liabilities in their present aging state - essentially the mistakes of the prior owner that need to be corrected rather than repeated.

Only thing you forgot to mention was the cheap solution of slapping on bright paint, to stop the rot AND update the look to something more "colorful".

Case in point the painted Tiki posts in the Hanalei courtyard. It was/is a miracle that the restaurant lasted as long as it did. One reason for that might be that it went "full Tiki" sort of late in the game, because the original owner of the Hanalei was of that WWII "Polynesiac" generation, and stuck to his tastes:

In 1980, as the rest of the world was already saying goodbye to Tiki, he bought the decor of the The Luau and majorly expanded and elaborated on the theme, even having a Hawaiian Kahuna bless the place. After his passing, the sons dabbled a little in the biz, but then the place changed hands several times. Very similar to the Fairmont Hotel and the Tonga Room, which went fully Polynesian fairly late, also still under the direction of the "old generation" owner.

Thinking about these two examples having flourished later and then lasted longer than many others would almost make it seem that Tiki has its own inherent life cycle, because after their time was up, no matter how far the Tiki revival had gotten, it could not halt their devolution. Sort of like a tree that reaches a certain age and then just dies.

Sorry, getting philosophical here...

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2011-02-02 00:31 ]

not really a answer to the question per se,

but I know a few different Tiki Peeps that are getting tired of Tiki,
and are scaling back on the collections, and home decor.

I think for some, Tiki gets old.
especially the hoarding, and the tikier than thou side of some of the people on here.

Jeff(btd)

"When you make your establishment look like everyone else's with a bland, neutral tone to the color, decor, style, etc., it's makes it easier to sell to other corperations who might be interested in buying the place if the present owners want to dump the property."

Lee bro! This is a REALLY interesting idea, and probably true to a point, and Lee is thinking exactly the way he should, by not focusing on the pro-or-anti Tiki question because management really doesn't care about classic-non-classic Tiki stuff one way or the other. But Lee, I'm telling you that NO manager in the history of any chain has ever planned for failure. They just don't. They don't plow a couple million in renovations into a property in order to plan for the failure of the renovations. They should. You and I would, just to be careful, but they sure as heck don't.

Here's a big clue: the largest amount of money the Hanalei spent in renovations had nothing to do with updating the Tiki look. Not a single person has mentioned this yet.

And here is another hint: you folks have it all wrong. You are assuming that the new management at the Hanalei HATE TIKI, or somehow think Tiki is old or outdated or whatever. In fact, they think exactly the opposite. They like the Tiki look, they know the Hanalei is successful because of it and that it fits in with a San Diego climate. That's why they have gone out of their way to PRESERVE IT. Parts of the Islands restaurant have been kept exactly the way they always have been - the wall hangings to a degree and the railings, the outside poles, etc.

The hallway waterfall is still there, there are more than 8 outside waterfalls operating perfectly, the giant atrium area is kept in 1961 stasis. And they polished up the canoe. Give them credit.

Crazy as it seems to us, they LIKE TIKI. They think of it as Hawaiian Moderne. It actually works for them. The new owners went out of their way to hire Polynesians as much as possible, believe it or not, in the early days. The question isn't if they "like" Tiki or not, because they DO. They still call it the Hanalei Conference Center, which of course is another clue.

Like the Big Dude says, don't turn this into a forum of who is more Tiki than whom.

The Dude has spoken, listen to his word, for they are of the Dude and by the Dude.

"...You folks have it all wrong."

These folks don't have it "all" wrong, you just have one particular answer in mind which you believe is the One Answer as to why Tiki palaces get destroyed.*****

Many of the points raised here are completely valid and probably are reasons that an interesting establishment will be turned into yet another Drowsy McYawnfest's Mediocrity Grill & Warm Milk Bar. (Except for the concern about dusting. I've noticed most businesses don't dust their decor, no matter how simple and plain the decor is.)

There's a really interesting discussion buried in this thread: American taste and whether commercial properties cater to or actually create those tastes.

I say buried because as it is right now the thread isn't actually a discussion of this topic but a guessing game based contest to try and figure out the one answer you have in mind.

I'm looking forward to seeing if this one answer is the Unified Theory of Tiki Palace Destruction.

After the One Answer is revealed it'd be interesting to revisit this discussion in another thread.

*****A few years back I was talking with a guy who had been in the restaurant supply business for many decades and he told me about a greater Seattle area Polynesian themed restaurant that had failed. The place was, according to him, a really swell looking place with good food. The food was Polynesian and the guy said the reason the restaurant failed is that a Polynesian menu is the sort of thing people will do once maybe twice a year. It's not the place they'll go eat at every week.

While I think he had a good point I don't regard that point as the only reason such a restaurant would fail.

Not directly pertaining to the question of why the present owners did what they did when they did it, but just to keep the timeline facts straight and get everybody up to par:

1964 -- The Hotel was converted from a basic "Country"-styled Motel called the "Crossroads Inn" to the "Hanalei" (with their "Adobe Room" becoming "The Islands" restaurant"):

1966 -- The first high rise tower is added to the back of the Hotel:

1980 -- The second high rise tower is added, forming the courtyard, which is completely furnished with artifacts from the Luau in Beverly Hills:

The Islands Restaurant and bar are expanded and embellished with more Luau decor and blossoms in the full Tiki splendor of the lost Beverly Hills Tiki temple:

Until the late 1990s, the Islands restaurant remains a shining example of the style, and the only interior left with lava rock waterfalls feeding rivers crossed by Tiki bridges:

1997 -- The first major ownership change causes the whole restaurant front (A-Frame etc.) and part of the interior to be replaced by corporate blandness, while the main part of the restaurant remains intact

2007 -- This last "island" of classic Tiki (as in surrounded by waterways) is torn out and turned generic, as discussed here (while the courtyard remains largely untouched)

While there were many good thoughts and possibilities posted here in answer to the general question heading this thread "Why destroy Tiki palaces?" we are all now eagerly awaiting the one true answer as to what mysterious corporate modus operandi dealt the final blow to this much loved and much mourned Tiki Temple. :)

Another snoop/scoop reveals that the property was audited by the parent company...recommended changes included consolidation of the restaurant into a full-service one with larger seating capacity, upgrades to the rooms into a higher class to stay competitive with surrounding hotel competition and to set it apart from Motel 6 - a neighbor, addition of conference rooms etc. because the Hanalei is a business conference hotel first and foremost, not a "book-by-the-night" motel (Thanks Otto!)

• am I close to the truth here cammo?

What's THE answer, cammo? huh? huh? !!

[ Edited by: TikiG 2011-02-02 09:23 ]

Are you thinking "versatility"? An emptier restaurant can be used as a conference room (in a pinch)?

Well it seems Cammo has given us a clue, but its not jumping out at us.

When I went there right after the remodel, I thought that as horrible as it was.
It was nice that they kept some of the Polynesian artifacts.
But that didn't make up for what they had done, by a long shot.

My Friend Kristena, whom I had eaten in the Restaurant with her Husband(whom) was Philippino
said upon seeing the remodel that is reminded her of her Philippino in Laws house.
Bright white with some sparse decor here and there.

Light and Fresh.

blleeech!!
I want things dark and moody and full of vibe.
But I am sure that the General Public doesn't want that.

Cammo when do we get the answer?

Jeff(btd)

"Another snoop/scoop reveals that the property was audited by the parent company...recommended changes included consolidation of the restaurant into a full-service one with larger seating capacity, upgrades to the rooms into a higher class to stay competitive with surrounding hotel competition and to set it apart from Motel 6 - a neighbor, addition of conference rooms etc. because the Hanalei is a business conference hotel first and foremost, not a "book-by-the-night" motel..."

TikiG Guy is really f'n close here, he may have won it or the whole thing may have to run off into a tie breaker with 2 others.

I have the answer simply because I asked the managers at the Hanalei why the remodeling was done that way. I also had a huge conversation with 2 hotel managers of other hotels in the area, and they seem to know more about the Hanalei than the Hanalei guys know about the Hanalei. If you wanna know something, ask the competition.

Was the Health Dept. going to close them down because of it being unsafe, or unhealthy?

i.e. the water in the restaurant, algae, mold, etc?

Jeff(btd)

"...because the Hanalei is a business conference hotel first and foremost, not a "book-by-the-night" motel"

TikiG - what exactly do you mean by this? Can you expand on the idea?

eg. What exactly do you mean by "book-by-the-night" motel?

COME ON, NAIL IT BRO.

I'm rooting for the G.

wake me up when you announce the answer...
I'm goin to sleep....

Well in business its all about performance and customer perception isn't it? Next is "planning" for income. Booking events in advance. Knowing your customer base. FORECASTS vs PERFORMANCE. Data Data Data. What do we order this month, staff requirements, maintenance requirements, civic and community requirements and services etc etc all must be carefully orchestrated. Now consider the appeal factor for corporate alliances, product placement and long-term contract with those difficult to obtain corporate alliances.

The flip-side...in a old-school traditional motel set-up you rely on road traffic and road advertising and maybe a little organic theming to set you apart from local competition. We know that a roadside motel may have little or no customers during the week, but you can always count on being busy Friday and Saturday nights...i.e. "book-by-the-night" or worse the dreaded "book-by-the-hour" (depends on what end of the stick you're looking!)

I hope this explains what I wrote earlier. G

[ Edited by: tikig 2011-02-02 12:36 ]

[ Edited by: TikiG 2011-02-02 12:40 ]

Just to add a little fuel to the fire and play devil's advocate - we look at the wonton destruction of Tiki Palaces and cringe in horror but we need to put the shoe on the other foot. Consider the fictitious "Fred's Fish Shack"; built in the 50s, it holds a dear spot in someone's heart because they went there on their first date. So they embark on a quest to save the place as a historical landmark. But the damned place is an eyesore and the food never was any good anyway. The only reason it stayed open was because Fred's wife had a day job that supported Fred's dream of owning a fish shack. It's located on prime real estate stands in the way of progress, it needs to be torn down to build - yes - ugly condos or another Walgreen's. So a few determined people and a good lawyer will stand in the way of progress for years, much to the dismay of 99% of the surrounding population.

Tiki Palaces are torn down because, as much as we hate to admit it, many (or most) people don't "get it" and consider them to be an eyesore.

Admittedly I'm more interested in the general topic than the very specific reasons behind the design choices in the Hanalei remodel. Standing by for enlightenment on that, but I bet the "reasoning" is just as obtuse as any planning commission decree, and may or may not resemble the reasoning in other places. Probably a whole different set of factors for the hotels that destroyed or shuttered the Beverly Hills Trader Vics or the Chicago Kona Kai, and on and on. Anyway, a couple comments on the comments...

Regarding MDMike's example of Fred's Fish Shack, I really would disagree that most people consider tiki palaces to be an eyesore in and of themselves. Decaying tiki palaces maybe, but more because of the decay than the theming. If the food is lousy that can affect it too, but again I don't think the decor itself is really a big turnoff, especially in today's modern eclectic age.

I do think there's a cottage industry of so-called experts, ostensibly the authorities on what appeals to the public, who do make assertions about one style being hot, and another being dated, and blah blah. But again it's tough to ensure that their expert assessments aren't more a reflection of their own pre-existing (and sometimes arbitrary) biases, than of the people they supposedly report about.

Regarding business travelers, I was just going to add that when I travel for work, I have very little say in the hotel I get anyway. The company travel agent picks them for cost, proximity to a meeting or event or airport, internet, etc. Not sure if anyone cares whether I feel at home, or familiar, or somewhere unique, as long as it's not so bad that I tell the travel agent to put that place on an "exclude" list for the future.

I didn't see anyone suggest that the latest management at the Hanalei hates tiki. That wouldn't make much sense. But it's quite clear that any enchantment with the tiki style has been greatly diluted, when you compare with the hotel management up through the 80s when they were still expanding and enhancing that element of the atmosphere.

It could be that the Hanalei management wants to attract different kinds of conferences by having more of a blank canvas in their own decor. If you'd like to host conferences for any group, ranging from the National Seed & Fertilizer Society, to the Hermit Crab Lovers of North America, and the Fraternal Order of Glacial Ice Climbers, perhaps you want to de-emphasize your own theming so that visitors can transform the place into a seed, crab, or ice mecca for the duration of their conference. Maybe someone thinks there would be something incongruous about a tiki themed hotel and restaurant, for an audience of ice climbers. Who knows, this kind of reasoning is really not predictable, and any particular case seems to involve arbitrary combinations of real factors, debatable factors, and made up stuff.

BTW, thanks Sven for posting the refresher with the photos and timeline. Bittersweet.

-Randy

Just in case this is all getting too cerebral and wordy for everybody, here's an example of what I'm homing in on. This is gonna really throw a wrench into the arguement, but it's ultimately central to the whole idea, trust me.

1960's Business Meeting

2011 Business Meeting (actual photo from a business party at the Handlery Hotel next to the Hanalei)

What's going on? And I don't mean the obvious, that women are now business travelers as much as men. Women love to have a great time, probably more so in my experiences...

SO WHAT THE.....?

Self-service amenities?
Non-threatening amenities?

Focus shifting from cocktails/booze to healthy products ie water?

Why do that? Booze means mucho profit.

...and who looks healthier? The people in the top photo or the bottom one??!?!?!?!

On 2011-02-01 20:59, lucas vigor wrote:
You know what would be cool? Go the other direction and make some place that wasn't before, tiki!

Paradise point in san diego used to be called vacation village back in the 70's. We used to go their for mini-vacations. The whole "island" was filled, I mean filled with ornamental tropical foliage! The bar used to be some sort of theme bar, perhaps tiki (I was too young to go in) but when I went back a few years ago there was a fake lava walkway leading into the bar (which was sunken) and a rather ornate "castle" style door...

Anyway, imagine what a bamboo ben or crazy al could do if you let them run wild and convert the entire hotel into a tiki island! Then have your Tiki Oasis there.

I love Paradise Point, right off the water, with Bungalows and plenty of green.
It may be the closest thing to Hawaii!
It is tiki in every sense, except for, of course, the lack of Tiki.

Shift emphasis from the individual to the group w/package deals?...cammo I'm rumming out'o ideas bro!!

(By the way the Vacation Village had the Barefoot Bar back in the day (early 1970s) which was inside a cave-like environment. My dad took me (dragged me) there several times to watch his favorite jazz combos play - I always wanted to be at Belmont Park across the bridge and ride the old wooden roller coaster all day and night.

V.V. also had a cool observation tower you could climb the stairs for free and get a 360 view of Mission Bay from the top.

I agree - if Vacation Village was re-themed as a polypop resort and tikified to the max, it could become the world's top polypop destination outside polynesia itself.)

It would not take much to convert the place...it is, after all, a relic from the brady bunch era!

I have been there about a year ago, and ate at the restaurant. At night, with all the "jungle" pathways lit up with torches, it really f-ing great! The observation tower is still there, by the way!

Some things have obviously changed: the former coffee shop is now the front desk. The former front desk is now the gift shop....but the bar is still there, and if it was not tiki back in the day, it certainly was something....!

if I had the money to do a large scale tiki event, this place would be my first choice, just for the tropical foliage, excellent pools and beach bungalows alone!

of course, it would have to be somewhat tiki "re-volved!"...

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/88017382@N00/3798180493/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88017382@N00/3798970834/sizes/l/in/photostream/

And this vintage cocktail from the barefoot bar shows some more ideas...

Cool website, too...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.arkivatropika.com/images/pictures/1078_large.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.arkivatropika.com/cgi-bin/tags.cgi%3Ftags%3D%2522cocktail%2522&usg=__6YOUitruNXQ-5jkXC-L0rHWW5B4=&h=500&w=500&sz=75&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=2nOEytMYnWERwM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=149&ei=afJJTb7JAoO6sAPi_ICNCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbarefoot%2Bbar%2Bvacation%2Bvillage%2Bsan%2Bdiego%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D677%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=691&vpy=63&dur=1126&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=108&ty=111&oei=afJJTb7JAoO6sAPi_ICNCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2011-02-02 16:19 ]

Wow! I've not been on the property in probably thirty-five years or more and the tower still looks as I remember it - esp. the wrought-iron bird perched at the top - funky!

Thanks Lucas for posting and sorry cammo for derailing this thread for a moment. G

http://www.cardcow.com/54002/vacation-village-hotel-west-mission-bay-san-diego-california/

No problem....and sorry for the derail too! But, it is an example of a vintage hotel that is mid-century, and could be converted into full fledged tiki now..

(researching the net, it shows postcards from this hotel going back to 1964.)

On 2011-02-02 15:59, TikiG wrote:
Shift emphasis from the individual to the group w/package deals?...cammo I'm rumming out'o ideas bro!!

(By the way the Vacation Village had the Barefoot Bar back in the day (early 1970s) which was inside a cave-like environment. My dad took me (dragged me) there several times to watch his favorite jazz combos play - I always wanted to be at Belmont Park across the bridge and ride the old wooden roller coaster all day and night.

V.V. also had a cool observation tower you could climb the stairs for free and get a 360 view of Mission Bay from the top.

I agree - if Vacation Village was re-themed as a polypop resort and tikified to the max, it could become the world's top polypop destination outside polynesia itself.)

In the early 90s, the Barefoot Bar had barefoot dancing in the sand, and was very popular for Sunday afternoons.
Now that room is the causal restaurant, complete with koi fish pond.
One of you carvers, please give them a sales call & provide a pitch and a price quote!

I get the feeling that Paradise Point/Vacation Village had a Tiki theme originally, but nobody seems to know about the property's history. Maybe BigBro does. And - I've found 1 count 'em ONE Tiki on the grounds, and it looks old/original. Also, the hotel has a really cool Hawaiian putting course that you can play for free if you bring a club & ball, and small pools situated around the rooms that you can jump in. The Baleen Restaurant there is amazing.

On 2011-02-02 14:47, Cammo wrote:
Just in case this is all getting too cerebral and wordy for everybody, here's an example of what I'm homing in on. This is gonna really throw a wrench into the arguement, but it's ultimately central to the whole idea, trust me.

1960's Business Meeting

2011 Business Meeting (actual photo from a business party at the Handlery Hotel next to the Hanalei)

What's going on? And I don't mean the obvious, that women are now business travelers as much as men. Women love to have a great time, probably more so in my experiences...

SO WHAT THE.....?

Actually, wouldn't the Tikis, with the phallus symbols, be more offensive to men, just as Playboy bunnies are offensive to women.

On 2011-02-02 00:19, bigtikidude wrote:
not really a answer to the question per se,

but I know a few different Tiki Peeps that are getting tired of Tiki,
and are scaling back on the collections, and home decor.

I think for some, Tiki gets old.
especially the hoarding, and the tikier than thou side of some of the people on here.

Jeff(btd)

Jeff,

Can you expand on the details of your comments?

Thanks,

PTD

"Can you expand on the details of your comments?"

And can we get some names and phone numbers of people selling stuff?

Just kidding.

But rather than expand his answer here I think it would make an interesting separate thread, a discussion for those who've lost interest or find less appeal in Tiki and why.

I guess ideally such a discussion should be in Beyond Tiki.

Back to the subject of this thread, guessing at Cammo's answer...

Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

Because it's fun.

[Edited by: woofmutt to remove a typo. Apparently he got so excited about his guess at the answer that he let his heart run ahead of his brain.]

[ Edited by: woofmutt 2011-02-02 21:27 ]

When people are distracted by the "ambience" or the "entertainment" they actually buy LESS food/drink. When they have only each other to talk to and nothing else to look at, they buy more, eat more, drink more.

And they do it faster and get the hell out for the next group to come in and do the same.

On 2011-02-02 21:52, Kiki von Tiki wrote:
When people are distracted by the "ambience" or the "entertainment" they actually buy LESS food/drink. When they have only each other to talk to and nothing else to look at, they buy more, eat more, drink more.

And they do it faster and get the hell out for the next group to come in and do the same.

In particular regards to that last part, Exactly! I like how you think!

[ Edited by: Hakalugi 2011-02-02 22:39 ]

Oh yeah ?? Then how do you explain my large bar tabs at Tonga Hut, DTBC, and Las Vegas "Gentlemen's Clubs" ??

On 2011-02-02 16:56, Psycho Tiki D wrote:

On 2011-02-02 00:19, bigtikidude wrote:
not really a answer to the question per se,

but I know a few different Tiki Peeps that are getting tired of Tiki,
and are scaling back on the collections, and home decor.

I think for some, Tiki gets old.
especially the hoarding, and the tikier than thou side of some of the people on here.

Jeff(btd)

Jeff,

Can you expand on the details of your comments?

Thanks,

PTD

sorry can't name names,
but I know some old school tiki central members that have lost interest in being 100% tiki all the time.

Jeff(btd)

*Why Destroy Tiki Palaces? *

Because it's easier.

"And they do it faster and get the hell out for the next group to come in and do the same."

Did you know McDonalds intentionally makes their seats hard (ever notice there's no padding?) and their lights harsh to get people out as fast as possible?

But does this apply to hotels, where the person "going away" means going back to their room where there is no alcohol for sale? Nope.

The guests don't have to drive, they're sitting ducks, the whole point of a hotel bar is to attract their guests, keep them there, and sell them highly profitable alcoholic beverages until they stumble back to their rooms. The Tiki Bar actually works perfectly as a hotel concept. Dark, cozy, and exotic...

*...The whole point of a hotel bar is to attract their guests, keep them there, and sell them highly profitable alcoholic beverages until they stumble back to their rooms. The Tiki Bar actually works perfectly as a hotel concept. Dark, cozy, and exotic...
*

A Tiki bar, or any windowless and quiet bar, is ideal for that sort of guest visit. But I haven't come across such a bar in a hotel since I started going to bars (mid 90s). The hotel bars (non destination hotels) I see don't exist as a place for drinkers to gather but as a place to accommodate those who would like to have a drink while waiting for someone or having a brief meeting. The "eat it and beat it" idea behind fast food interiors is expressed in the hotel bar as "meet here then leave." And that's only when the hotel bar is open. I've seen many business focused hotels that have bars which only open on weekends or for special events. It seems there might not be a lot of money to be made by a bar in a standard hotel.