Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

On 2011-02-05 20:00, ErkNoLikeFire wrote:
I shudder to think that Budweiser would ever be included in the category of "cool shit". PBR maybe, or I would go as far as Black Label, but other then Dalmatians and Clydesdales, Bud has very little going for it.

You no what, until you know what you're talking about, think twice. If you visit St.Louis, tour Grant's Farm and eat at the Bevo Mill. Both rival the best of what I've seen in terms of Tiki Palaces and I've just about seen them all. Both are owned by Bush - not sure if they still have the Bevo Mill since I've left, but the restaurant is still in operation.

"Cammo has probably delayed giving us The One Answer because it's epic and he keeps tweaking the post in which he will reveal the answer to us. Or maybe he's busy."

Both of the above are correct. Just relax, it's the weekend. Read some other posts and give me some more time. There's gotta be something else happening on TC. I though this was just going to be a little teeny obscure post that not many people were interested in.

I think everybody is over here reading this because Buzzy hasn't posted anything in like 3 1/2 months!
Where is that guy??!?!?!

Well, apparently we have the answer back there, somewhere, but after rereading, I'm not sure what it was. I wonder, does the winner know they won?

I'll venture another guess, to see if it ends up close to the answer Cammo is referencing:

Perhaps the reason they "go beige" is to assist the public relations aspects of the businesses and organizations they hope to attract to their hotel and conference centers. Because of increased stockholder, board and public scrutiny, business travel and conferences must appear justified and a good use of funds. If the venue doesn’t look like “serious business”, if it looks like an excuse for too much fun, it could cast doubt on the real reason people spent money to attend the conference. Toned-down decor and a beige look reinforces that this is primarily about work, and only incidentally about entertainment. Beige provides cover. Vegas appears like frivolous, crazy fun - and it is - and it might be the destination of choice, in different times. But lately, Vegas trips have gotten companies criticized for going there and spending money. A company, or even a government agency, may need to hold conferences, but they also wish to avoid the criticism that they are wasting money on contrived excuses to have fun. They need for the venue to look more business than pleasure, even if they intend for the conference to be fun for the attendees. Beige is business, and doesn't attract criticism of expenditures like dense tiki decor and drinks named, e.g., "Vicious Virgin" would.

Bit touchy ain't we? As I admit that I know little of Grant's Farm other then the presidential connection, I do no that Busch let the Bevo Mill fall into disrepair and finally let the city take over the property. What ever the condition of the venue is now, it certainly hasn't anything to do with the former absentee property holders. I was merely attesting to the content of their they primary business anyway, and not any remote satellite ventures.Let us now return to our regularly scheduled topic. ........Bud Sucks

Ah, just about the time you think you got the home town out of you, someone says something and you're back ready to defend her honor. In St. Louis, AB and civic pride were one and the same at one time in the past.

"Perhaps the reason they "go beige" is to assist the public relations aspects of the businesses and organizations they hope to attract to their hotel and conference centers. Because of increased stockholder, board and public scrutiny, business travel and conferences must appear justified and a good use of funds. If the venue doesn’t look like “serious business”, if it looks like an excuse for too much fun, it could cast doubt on the real reason people spent money to attend the conference. Toned-down decor and a beige look reinforces that this is primarily about work, and only incidentally about entertainment. Beige provides cover. Vegas appears like frivolous, crazy fun - and it is - and it might be the destination of choice, in different times. But lately, Vegas trips have gotten companies criticized for going there and spending money. A company, or even a government agency, may need to hold conferences, but they also wish to avoid the criticism that they are wasting money on contrived excuses to have fun. They need for the venue to look more business than pleasure, even if they intend for the conference to be fun for the attendees. Beige is business, and doesn't attract criticism of expenditures like dense tiki decor and drinks named, e.g., "Vicious Virgin" would."

Just to let everybody know, this is EXACTLY RIGHT, but somebody else nailed it even closer, and it's a LOT more involved than this. For instance, who exactly is being placated with beige; how would a stockholder know or care where a businessman went in March of 2009 and the color of the walls there? Give me some time, go have a Vicious Virgin or two and I'll explain in due time...

...and let me add that TC posters have got to be the smartest crowd of rascals on the internet.

What's all this St. Louis stuff? Take it outside, boys.

On 2011-02-06 06:50, Cammo wrote:
"... who exactly is being placated with beige; how would a stockholder know or care where a businessman went in March of 2009 and the color of the walls there?"

Since I seem to be on the right track, I’ll expand a little on what I was trying to get at. The overall “climate” – business, legal, political – leads corporate (or other organizational) management to play defense. They've observed that "what happens in Vegas" DOESN'T always stay in Vegas. So, they ask themselves:

What IF – despite our best efforts – we find ourselves embroiled in a legal, financial or regulatory mess? What if we find ourselves being interrogated by directors (on behalf of stockholders), deposing lawyers, regulatory enforcers, reporters, or – God forbid! – a congressional committee? As we defend the prudence of our management judgment, and how the problems could not have been foreseen,… the LAST thing we need is someone whipping out a 2-year-old picture of our executives gathered around a table, with a roasted pig in the middle, and one of them being served a big flaming bowl of alcohol by a scantily attired maiden (or cocktails by Playboy bunnies). A picture too easily found on someone’s Facebook (in an age of ubiquitous cell phone cameras), if the situation is allowed to exist at all. Even if we can PROVE that particular conference was extraordinarily productive, it won’t overcome the “story” the picture tells.

The same thing applies to non-corporate groups that might do business with a hotel/conference center. Say a school board is calling for increased taxes and cuts in popular programs to get through a budget shortfall. In the middle of public hearings, they sure don't want someone coming up with a picture of their taxpayer-funded “business retreat” two years ago – drinking out of pineapples in a lush tropical setting, as carved "pagan" idols glower in the background. In the face of that picture, no one would hear the truth that it was the long grueling sessions at that retreat that allowed the crisis to be averted for an additional two years. Beige doesn’t completely prevent fun – but it can visually camouflage it. It accommodates the concerns of those considering conference venues, always worried about preventing unexpected blowback, years later.

Limbo is so right on here its like he's reading my answer, so I'm going to have to post this in like 2 or 3 posts.

Here's the original winner, although Limbo may need an award here too.

"Regarding business travelers, I was just going to add that when I travel for work, I have very little say in the hotel I get anyway. The company travel agent picks them for cost, proximity to a meeting or event or airport, internet, etc. Not sure if anyone cares whether I feel at home, or familiar, or somewhere unique, as long as it's not so bad that I tell the travel agent to put that place on an "exclude" list for the future."

That's right, AQUARJ wins, he's already been contacted and he says he will graciously accept the BLACK OKI Mug of FAME. I would have accepted any answer that involves expense accounts, or simply pointing out that business travelers don't select their hotels, or any one of the little details about hotels and the business of business.

The Answer, Part 1

The answer is simple:

Because the Hanalei is after corporate business people who are on expense accounts. These people have no decision about booking, nor pay for the hotels they stay in, nor pay for the meals they eat there, nor can exhibit any whiff of fun in the receipts they submit at the end of their junkets to the accountant who pays for their trips.

Here are the Booking of a Hotel rules with expense account corporate businessmen;

The corporate business people who stay at the Hanalei DO NOT BOOK THEIR OWN HOTEL. They don’t. Think about that for a second. The travel department at their company books them from a pre-approved list of national chain business hotels. You’re not allowed to book your own trip, because corporate bees only stay at these “Recognized Travel Vendors” hotels; ie. ones that submit regular, correct, monthly billings and a full year end statement to the corporation if asked. These hotels are usually paid 30-60 days after submitting their national group billing invoices, that is from ALL their hotels, not one at a time. This keeps the day to day work down for the accountants, its very reasonable.

A company will usually go with one and only one chain for their events, with backup hotels in cities not represented by the chain. Usually these backup hotels have arrangements with (eg.) Crowne Plaza so the billing isn’t even done by them, but goes out on the one bill to Crowne Plaza. It’s all invisible to the business traveller. The corporation of course usually gets huge discounts, based on their hotel usage, sometimes staying for 1/2 the full price or less, and always getting the best rooms. Corporate dinner rates are usually $10 a plate at the restaurant, for group meals and lunch meetings. That’s pretty affordable to a business.

In fact, I can state it even more simply:

A hotel’s #1 clients aren’t the business people who stay there, but the corporate accountants who pay for it.

Being a “Recognized Travel Vendor” to a corporate travel department is the ultimate goal, the priceless Diamond Eye of Dallmundo to a national-level hotel chain manager. Huge amounts of money are at stake. Sheraton Hotels have had this whole market locked up for decades; they are known as a middle-level not too great hotel for the precise reason that that’s EXACTLY what they want to be known as. Corporate bees stay longer, represent more guests, book conference rooms and giant dinner events and are often reliable for years. That’s who they want to stay at their hotels. That’s their plan. It pays enormously.

To be a corporate vendor you have to represent a national chain that charges the same per room (or really similar) so a business bee can get the best room for the money everywhere they go. The rooms all look the same because they're all priced the same, and the same amount is spent in their decor. The decor is selected from a corporate hotel "Style Book." I'm sorry, but this is just the way it's done and it makes sense. The vendors need to have locations in as many cities as possible, with as many similarly priced/same sized & decorated rooms or else the corporation will switch to another chain that DOES.

All of which means that “themes” are unnecessary, expensive, and literally dangerous to a corporate chain hotel. And because ALL bookings are done from a computer screen which lists only city, room and bed size, and standard corporate rate from a national vendor, any money spent on extra decor is money literally thrown away. It would be nice to have a perfectly maintained 1882 Penny Farthing bike in the front lobby of the Sheraton’s Baltimore location, but it has nothing to do with booking rooms, future bookings, or the business meeting you have to get to the next morning at 7:30am. Also, consider this: every dime spent on the Penny Farthing bike is one less dime they can spend on the free breakfast you get the next morning, and that is what most bleary eyed travelers care about. Or the computer room that needs printing paper. The whole “theme” idea makes them uncompetitive and leaves them open to bad local management decisions and bankruptcy.

Next: Receipts, Fun, and Booze

So the question Why Destroy Tiki Palaces is completely misleading because The One Answer is only about the Hanalei Hotel.

This thread should have been titled Why Was The Hanalei Hotel Destroyed?

It almost seems the thread was generically titled solely for the purpose of luring more people to the thread. Clearly Mr. Cammo has learned some tricks from the giant corporations.

Just trying to be a "tiki mug half full" kind guy here but I can give you a positive example of a historic old tiki hotel that is becoming more tiki: The Tiki Resort in Lake George, NY. This is the site for the Fraternal Order of Moai's annual event "Ohana: Luau at the Lake. I was involved in getting the ball rolling with Bargoyle to make the first event happen so I got to know the management fairly well. As the event has become more popular the hotel management has become more supportive of not just the event but of the sites own heritage. The owner stated to me that they wanted to make the place "more tiki" and they have followed through with that. Two years ago I helped them procure almost a dozen OA pieces from a defunct "Banana Joes" that had closed in Allentown, PA. They have continued to refurbish and remodel this historic Adirondack resort. The last I heard they were dropping the Howard Johnson monicker and going back to being indepent as "The Tiki Resort" and were planning a few external restoration projects to return the facility to it's Polynesian escape hey-day.

Well, that's the obvious difference between large chain and small individual ownership: The TIKI Motel owners have their own take on things and can act accordingly - that's how it used to be.

Thank you Cammo for a very thorough and logical (though depressing, what else) explanation. It solves the question of a.) why the Crown/Hanalei destroyed the Islands that late (after the place had lasted that long), and b.) ads another angle to the cookie-cutter way-of-thinking of mass-market chain businesses in general.

I have always wondered WHY Hotels in hotel chains seem to change chain-ownership so quickly, like the Hanalei after it had become a Red Lion becoming a Crown within a few years. The above reason shows that it's not necessarily because of direct economic success or failure, but because one chain decides that it needs a property in that area to make themselves more competitive for the "Recognized Travel Vendor" market. And I am sure there are other, even less "logical" reasons.

Yes, and the small hotels simply are not after corporate clients. They can't compete. They're after the complete opposite; people who book the hotel themselves because it is a nice and fun place to stay.

There are so many examples of this in Anaheim, where there are still small personally owned hotels (the Candy Cane Inn is really nice) right across Katella from the giant Anaheim Hilton with attached conference center that faces Disneyland.

The Hilton makes more money from its corporate clients.

You guys will have to wait for Part 2, which goes directly to the heart of the Tiki Bar Night On The Town.

Cammo, I still think MY answer was the best answer.

Lucas - IT IS. I have yet to buy you a drink when you're in town, gimme a shout next time.
How's Big Red?

no white walls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhi5F3_cPj0&feature=related

[ Edited by: Limbo Lizard 2011-02-07 15:18 ]

On 2011-02-01 04:22, mudbone wrote:
Beige is the color the majority of people buy for their home.

It is also the color of most people's thoughts these days.

"They see a red hotel and want it painted beige.
No colors anymore, they want them to turn beige... "

**Part 2 - Receipts, Fun, and Booze **

More rules - the typical businessman’s expense account now has tax limitations.

The IRS stipulates that your meals and entertainment expenses have to be an obvious business expense, not a wild weekend of strip clubs, bars, and spas. But first the expenses have to pass the CPA who doles out the company’s travel money meagerly. Otherwise, the accountant knows a federal audit of entertainment expenses and outlandish travel bucks spent can put a corporation out of business. The federal audit is what all accountants dread. It can get them fired, it can close down their business. They live in fear of them.

Limbo Lizard is exactly right. That’s why if you are on a corporate expense account, you can’t stay at hotels called...

Hulu Lulu’s South Seas Getaway and Pleasure Island Spa, Home of the $100 Naked Oiled Lobster Dance and the 32 Ounce Volcano Voobaloo Mystery Killer Kocktail

... even if that sounds like a pretty fun place, and even if you could book it yourself! Cause it ain’t business and won’t pass the federal audit as a write off. And it lists the name and even the contact phone number (!) and pretty soon the website (!) or Facebook page(!!!!) on your receipt or your corporate credit card drop-down dated expense list when you bring it back to your sour-faced CPA who DIDN’T get to go on your trip. And that accountant ain’t pleased even when you stay at BORING PLACES!

You CAN stay at a hotel called...

The Sheraton Business Center International; WiFi and Videoconferencing

See?

It’s bulletproof to the IRS watchers always lurking around the corner. This goes DOUBLE for restaurants and bars you hang out at while on your little junket. You just plain can’t go to...

Wild Wendy’s Tiki Asian Whorehouse and Orgy Pool with 24 Hour BBQ, Free Saki and Vomitorium Privileges, Drive-Thru, Color TV!

You CAN go to...

The Sheraton Business Center International’s Steakhouse, but only if you order a reasonably priced dinner. Because there’s an electronic paper trail now that didn’t exist in the 1950’s. The ease of travel by corporate credit card is killing the fun by making it almost automatic to see exactly where you have been, right down to the minute of the transaction. And this ain't gonna get any better in the future, cause they're working on credit cards that will list ALL purchases you make, itemized, instead of single grouped charges as they do now. In other words, they'll look just like cash register receipts.

See?

My dad worked for Piedmont Chemical in the 1960’s, and went on cross country business trips for them all the time. He didn’t use a credit card in those days because Piedmont didn’t WANT him to. They WANTED him to have a good time and they didn’t want any paper trails. In the 1930’s - 1960’s there were no paper receipts, no credit card receipts, no paper trail - at least, not like there is now. Dad got a per diem allowance in cash, a hotel room and a pat on the back. Most of the time he’d come back from these trips bleary eyed and smiling. Where had he gone? Carousing. National sales conferences were often attended by the wildest goings-on you can imagine, and if Shriners were involved it they were pretty dangerous madhouses of booze, cigarettes, Party Girls and late night mayhem, all fueled by the per diem. Cops were paid to look the other way, taxi drivers ruled the night and 10 to 1 you slipped your driver a matchbook with your sleazy hotel name and address printed on the cover to get you home that night.

Per Diem = Tiki Bar Heaven.

A while ago, Buzzy lucked out by purchasing a giant box of Tiki Bar matchbooks and other paraphernalia from the daughter of the guy who collected them. We call this guy Matchbook Man, and he seemed to have been a national salesman of some kind, and MAN did he live it up. He seemed to have gone to pretty much EVERY DANG TIKI BAR in the whole country, but also stopped at every Playboy club, every BBQ hangout, and made a detour to Las Vegas whenever possible. There were obscure hotel keys, gambling chips, cigars and strip club tokens stashed among the matchbooks. And as Buzzy noted, every single match had been used. He lit up cigarettes or the cigs of his clients wherever he went. This guy, Matchbook Man is OUR HERO. He was the consummate 60’s businessman, and you BET he didn’t collect receipts. He was probably successful as hell.

Go back a few more years. It’s almost impossible for us to imagine pre-1917 accounting methods. It meant almost NO accounting at all, cash transactions, no receipts, sales records were there to keep employees honest; not to account to the Feds. In the 1960’s my dad still bought major supplies by chaining a locked briefcase to his wrist and flying the cash cross country to the supplier. This was in fact demanded at Piedmont Chemical; it was a completely normal business procedure. It took decades to change the public mind to where they now view this as near-criminal behavior.

(...Leading one to ponder that the reason it’s almost impossible to track down Tiki mug sales and business information about the makers is because they were under the table business, cash only sales to bars and ducking the Feds.)

Think I’m exaggerating? Check out the case of our honorable ambassador to Luxembourg, Cynthia Stroum. She’s been in the news quite a bit lately, anybody notice? Apparently she was appointed ambassador to Luxembourg and when she showed up there made herself quite thoroughly hated by repeatedly screaming at the professional embassy workers. The staff were on the point of quitting until they realized that they could simply forward her electronic trail of expenses to the State Department in D.C. and let them mull it over. It worked perfectly. Her trail of buying hideously expensive booze, new beds, and her no-business jaunt to Switzerland got her fired in less than a week.

The point is, if you take away businessmen on trips and you take away families (who wants to get drunk and watch hula shows with their wife and kids?) WHO IS LEFT as the clients of the typical Tiki bar? Locals? They’ll show up no matter what the decor; by definition they’re LOCALS.

NEXT - Conventions, or A Thousand Fish In A Barrel

Cammo, not to dispute what you've heard from hotel managers, but I'm surprised by your (their) explanations. I've worked for 4 major Technology companies and have traveled extensively on business for each. I've ALWAYS had my choice of where I could stay, eat, and drink as long as it was in an acceptable price range for a particular city. My company(s) never cared what the establishment was, as long as it wasn't comparatively overpriced. The only real policy was that we were not to entertain clients in venues of an "Adult" nature, i.e. strip clubs. Just recently I took some out-of-town partners to an expensable dinner at Don the Beachcomber. They loved it and I'm sure our company bean-counters appreciated that selection over the much more expensive (and boring) first choice.

I've had exactly the opposite experience working for pharma companies, I've never once been able to book my own hotel. The idea of even asking just doesn't exist.

And my point isn't that all companies have this policy (most small companies don't, as we'll get to later in a fascinating aside) but simply that big chain hotels like Crowne Plaza try to attract giant corporations that DO, with huge volumes of daily coast-to-coast room bookings; eg. companies that have offices in many cities and are constantly on the go-go-go.

On 2011-02-08 11:40, Cammo wrote:
**Part 2 - Receipts, Fun, and Booze **

A while ago, Buzzy lucked out by purchasing a giant box of Tiki Bar matchbooks and other paraphernalia from the daughter of the guy who collected them. We call this guy Matchbook Man, and he seemed to have been a national salesman of some kind, and MAN did he live it up. He seemed to have gone to pretty much EVERY DANG TIKI BAR in the whole country, but also stopped at every Playboy club, every BBQ hangout, and made a detour to Las Vegas whenever possible. There were obscure hotel keys, gambling chips, cigars and strip club tokens stashed among the matchbooks. And as Buzzy noted, every single match had been used. He lit up cigarettes or the cigs of his clients wherever he went. This guy, Matchbook Man is OUR HERO. He was the consummate 60’s businessman, and you BET he didn’t collect receipts. He was probably successful as hell.

NEXT - Conventions, or A Thousand Fish In A Barrel

Awesome!

Part 3 - Conventions, or A Thousand Fish In A Barrel

Maybe Jerry Lewis’s bizarrest movie (well, maybe not, he made a lot of strange movies late in his career) is “The Bellboy” filmed at the Fontainebleau Hotel in Miami Beach in 1960. Because Lewis didn’t have any money, he used the hotel as is, without any extra props or set decoration. What we see is exactly what the hotel looked like in 1960, which is FREAKING AMAZING! (People have talked about it elsewhere on TC) It’s this GIANT place right on the beach with this ENORMOUS front desk, acres of suntanning gals and HOLY CRAP ya gotta see it! My favorite part, though, is Jerry entering the Grande Ballroom. He is asked to “set it up” and proceeds to pull out chairs, one at a time and set them in perfect rows. (I won’t wreak the gag.) What’s interesting is that Jerry is setting the place up for what the HUGE room is designed for; conventions. But in 1960, Jerry was doing something that seems strange to us nowadays; he was setting up the chairs to be all facing in one direction - towards the stage. The stage had a proscenium arch and a podium with a big microphone right there in front.

Because in 1960 a convention was where a lot of people who usually worked for different branches of the same business went to see a guest speaker in the Grande Ballroom, listen to some more speeches, then have a big dinner. Afterwards they went drinking at the Hotel Bar, talked, met with each other or they went dancing with the wives or to sleep. This pattern is still emulated all over the USA at Lions Club meetings or at local Rotary Clubs. Go to one of their meetings and step back to 1960.

Nowadays, conventions are big business with hotels simply because the secret is out and everybody knows that they are free holidays paid for by the company you work for. And EVERYBODY wants to go to the convention. It used to be the sales staff only, now it’s the IT guy, buyers, accountants, the night watchman. And every union in the country has a convention, every political group, every local city government, all the service groups, every group you can think of in fact can’t even call itself a group unless that have a convention! Heck, even appreciators of 1950’s Tiki even have a freaking international convention!

But it’s even bigger than that. Cause the enormous conventions are not put on by a single business but by a convention management firm that rents space out - booths - to businesses with similar clients. San Diego’s biggest convention each year is the San Diego Comi-Con which is run by an umbrella group which purchased the name from founder John Rogers a few years ago. They have nothing to do with comics, they just hold the convention. It’s interesting that John called it the Comi-Con, originally still stuck in the 1950’s era of his comic collectors going to a Convention. Today people still sit in giant rooms like Jerry set up in 1960, but that ain’t the main reason they came. Today that room would be rented out to vendors.

Now we call them, of course, “Trade Shows.”

And they’re the biggest thing in the WORLD to a hotel manager, for the simple reason that if you have a Trade Show at your hotel you are basically gonna be a millionaire after the weekend is over. And you’re gonna get laid too. Because the hotel gets a cut of EVERYTHING GOING ON, and its wild. It’s like being a 1930’s gangster, only instead of being riddled with FBI bullets you get to eat a selection of cheesecake from the hotel’s buffet when its all over.

The point is this: hotels invest every dime they have in building bigger ballrooms with giant sliding partitions between them to make 1 giant room if need be. Cause they want the conventions and trade shows like a starving tiger wants that goat. They’ll build anything, any size, invest 5 years of profits to get a convention or two, because the business hotel trade I mentioned above is almost mindlessly driven by these yearly conventions and is the first thing the travel department has to examine when they look at hotels.

They have to. Everybody wants to go to the convention.

That’s why there is almost no money EVER left over for decor, or a good dinner menu, or nice rooms. It has nothing to do with taste of the lack thereof. There just ain’t any money or energy going into it. Talking to hotel guys about decor and food is like asking a cop where Santa Claus lives. He’ll just give you a glazed smile and pat you on the head like you’re retarded. Cause the conventions are where it’s at.

Again, think I’m exaggerating? The Hanalei plowed HUGE bucks, a giant percentage of their remodeling cash into making those new ballrooms, with the foldback doors and the seating plan and the microphones in every room and those giant chandeliers. They basically made a whole new state of the art interactive computer controlled building you could play football in, with 50 foot ceilings to make room for long passes and an entry hallway that looks sort of like Versailles’ Hall of Mirrors if Versailles was designed by the guy from Illinois who did the style guide for Sheraton Hotels.

There was NO money left over for anything else.

They did this for a great reason - because they had talked to some really big corporations who promised them that if they had the convention space, they’d book the hotel. In fact, the Hanalei had no choice.

But they made a mistake.

NEXT POST - The Wrench in the Machine, or What Went Wrong

This is great - an old style serialization, complete with cliffhanger/teasers.

I know what went wrong! (but I won't tell until after Cammo makes his big reveal 'cuz I don't want to steal his thunder :D )

What went wrong?!?!?!
The MadDoggie version is probably WAY more interesting...

(Cammo, you weren't supposed to call my bluff - I never know what the hell went wrong!)
:lol:

Make something up, boy!

(Does the MD after a doctor's name stand for "Mad Dog"???)

The Wrench in the Machine, or What Went Wrong

Here’s what went wrong; *everything. *

Here’s what they did wrong; everything.

You folks think that I’ve been telling you that basically “Tiki Doesn’t Matter.” Or that the nature of business has changed and is watched so closely by accountants that Tiki Bars are unapproachable.

That isn't true. Corporate planners just think it’s true.

Because here’s the ironic part: the Hanalei did everything it could to attract corporate clients, based on feedback they’ve had from some companies who told them they didn’t have “big enough conference rooms” to hold a national, even a statewide meeting. They redid the whole hotel to look more acceptable to corporate travel departments. They remade the menu to cut costs to the clients. And the Hanalei spent huge bucks to BUILD more CONFERENCE ROOMS.

Then they didn't get much response. (Why should they?)

That’s right, the companies that had promised them they’d line up to book there suddenly evaporated. They didn’t call back too much. They didn’t return calls when the Hanalei phoned them to tell them how spiffy they look now and what big shiny conference rooms they have.

Because the Hanalei wasn’t following their own successful business plan, they were imitating some else’s.

They were pretending to be successful at booking corporate accounts; they were not actually booking them.

In other words, they got greedy.

We’re all living the shadow of these would-be corporate accounts. The hotel managers refuse to bend down to the little guy because they’re always busy combing their hair and polishing their shoes, getting ready for the BIG meeting with the head of Nissan, trying to get their yearly hotel account. "What did you want to talk about? Tiki what? Ummm, can you come back Thursday? No, Thursday of next month.”

If there is a golden rule of business, it is “If it works locally, it will probably work nationally.” If people are not flocking to the Hanalei from surrounding San Diego, if they are not coming back year after year, then they sure aren’t lining up to come there from Binghampton, New York either. It’s a rule. Likewise, if you do have a local hit, it can go national quicker than you can yell “TIKI!”

The same thing has been happening over at San Diego’s other landmark hotel, the Hotel Del Coronado. The ‘Hotel Del’ (built 1888) is known for its beachside tennis courts, the amazing lobby bar, and the giant live Christmas tree that filled the lobby each year. The hotel was bought by a series of corporations who recently decided to take out all the tennis courts, eliminate the lobby bar and you guessed it put in a FAKE TREE (!!!!) each Christmas. Then they put in a “Beach Village” that are the most expensive rooms in all of San Diego. The hotel went from being valued at 745 mil to it’s now asking price of about 595. There’s been a takeover in management and the debt is still growing. Ten years from now the Hotel Del may not exist. Locals hate the changes and don’t go there anymore. It’s too expensive. It ain’t charming at Christmas. Corporate types don’t see the point in going - its not a chain and the conference rooms are fairly small.

Here’s the surprise; the Hanalei is actually pretty popular locally. Not a big success, but it’s sort of popular. And not with big corporate types. Instead, local businesses and clubs love the place - because of the Tikis. I’ve been to a lot of functions there, and the general feeling is that it’s a great, Polynesian-styled hotel that has pretty good food and a GREAT sushi bar. It isn’t booked solid year-round like the Catamaran Hotel (lush Tiki ambiance) or Humphrey’s Half Moon (exactly like going to Hawaii, and they book top music acts all summer, it’s the coolest place in San Diego, they’re BUSY ALL THE TIME and know exactly what they’re doing) but it does OK. In spite of the boring changes.

What sells the Hanalei, Humphrey’s and the Catamaran is that they’re Tiki. The Catamaran has Luaus all summer. It works. It hops.

There’s no reason to tear these places down, just redo the plumbing and change the lightbulbs once in a while. Update using good architects who know their stuff. They’ll do just fine, don’t worry. Keep the rooms reasonably priced. Put in a sushi bar. Grill some pig. Put on a Luau. It works. Explain it slowly to people. We know it works.

And - you can still do more business at a Playboy Club or a really great bar than at a Rotary Meeting. The salesmen know how to sell. Leave them alone. Forget the receipts.

Why beige? Beige looks like gold on the original planning drawings, that’s why. It’s the closest their budget can get to gold-leafing the walls like they do now in Hong Kong hotels. The look is supposed to be “prosperous” and “successful,” not boring. Businesslike, up and coming, got lots of moolah, living large business, not I NEED A BUCK gimme some business lets meet at the donut shop.

Why did they dismantle the Hanalei’s dining room? Well, for one, the waterfall was just plain installed on the wrong wall. It should have been behind the diners, not in front, because what everybody wants to do is look out onto the pool on a nice sunshiney morning at breakfast, lunch and dinner. The waterfall obscured the pool; it closed off the whole outside wall. The dining room is actually pretty nice to sit around in now, giant fold-back doors, fresh air, nice view, more room, not claustrophobic, lots more people can join the party. Too bad they didn’t move the waterfall to the back wall, but what can ya do?

NEXT POST - Prizes and the Hall of Fame

bump for repost in the serial.

So anyway, sorry for not posting but things been real real busy around here lately.

Here are DA WINNAHS:

AQUARJ:
"The regulatory barriers to entry in most forms of the hospitality business have made it very difficult or almost impossible for the "lone visionary" to create a destination, or even take over and preserve the spirit in an existing place. It's not only the financing, but also the willingness to operate under all the modern constraints of safety, liability, staffing, etc. Only a rare individual has the capacity for all that, PLUS the execution of the day to day things that attract visitors, like good food and drinks. Another reason to laud modern proprietors of Smuggler's Cove, Forbidden Island, Tonga Hut, Tiki Ti, the Mai Kai..."

and the winning comment, which was interestingly just an aside, not really meant as a slam dunk or anything:

"Regarding business travelers, I was just going to add that when I travel for work, I have very little say in the hotel I get anyway. The company travel agent picks them for cost, proximity to a meeting or event or airport, internet, etc."

For this almost accidental but extremely insightful comment, Randy R.
Randall gets the following, mailed immediately to his home, free of charge:

The Extremely Rare, One-Of -A-Kind Black Glazed Oki Doki Mug

Thanks Cammo, it was fun to play along, even unwittingly. That's gotta be the best reward I'll ever get for being wordy!

-Randy R. Randall

Yer welcome, R. R. Randall!

Here's the runner-up; this amazing, clearly explained description of modern day receipt collecting Big Brother suck-the-fun-from-everything practices by none other than Limbo Lizardman:

"Perhaps the reason they "go beige" is to assist the public relations aspects of the businesses and organizations they hope to attract to their hotel and conference centers. Because of increased stockholder, board and public scrutiny, business travel and conferences must appear justified and a good use of funds. If the venue doesn’t look like “serious business”, if it looks like an excuse for too much fun, it could cast doubt on the real reason people spent money to attend the conference. Toned-down decor and a beige look reinforces that this is primarily about work, and only incidentally about entertainment. Beige provides cover. Vegas appears like frivolous, crazy fun - and it is - and it might be the destination of choice, in different times. But lately, Vegas trips have gotten companies criticized for going there and spending money. A company, or even a government agency, may need to hold conferences, but they also wish to avoid the criticism that they are wasting money on contrived excuses to have fun. They need for the venue to look more business than pleasure, even if they intend for the conference to be fun for the attendees. Beige is business, and doesn't attract criticism of expenditures like dense tiki decor and drinks named, e.g., "Vicious Virgin" would."

For this accurate and obtuse observation, Limbo L. Lizardoman gets the following, mailed immediately to his home, free of charge:

The Extremely Rare, One-Of -A-Kind GOLDEN STONED Glazed Oki Doki Mug

Next Up:
The All-Star Gallery of Astounding Tikiophelia Insights

[ Edited by: Cammo 2011-03-02 20:56 ]

The best frickin' thread I've ever read on Tiki Central. Really interesting ideas, insightful commentary, well argued points, minimal smart ass remarks and no real flaming. And a really, really good lecture that seems to have definitively answered major questions in the Tiki community.

Cammo, I don't know you but if you aren't a teacher you should become one. You involved your students and got them to THINK about the subject while you were instructing them. Your long awaited answer was thorough and scholarly.

Bravo! Pour the professor a drink!!!

[ Edited by: Okolehao 2011-03-06 20:32 ]

... this ain't for the weak of stomach so VIEW WITH CAUTION.
... HOLY CRAP that's HORRIBLE!

http://www.dallasvoice.com/munch-madness-brackets-run-upscale-sports-bar-swing-1067513.html

On 2011-03-06 19:30, icebaer69 wrote:

... this ain't for the weak of stomach so VIEW WITH CAUTION.
... HOLY CRAP that's HORRIBLE!

http://www.dallasvoice.com/munch-madness-brackets-run-upscale-sports-bar-swing-1067513.html

The horror, the horror. That is so sad, indeed. Every Tikiphile's nightmare come true: A Sports Bar replacing an authentic Tiki Temple. Which, after surviving for decades, is irrevocably lost..

On 2011-03-06 22:14, bigbrotiki wrote:

On 2011-03-06 19:30, icebaer69 wrote:

... this ain't for the weak of stomach so VIEW WITH CAUTION.
... HOLY CRAP that's HORRIBLE!

http://www.dallasvoice.com/munch-madness-brackets-run-upscale-sports-bar-swing-1067513.html

The horror, the horror. That is so sad, indeed. Every Tikiphile's nightmare come true: A Sports Bar replacing an authentic Tiki Temple. Which, after surviving for decades, is irrevocably lost..

Ugh.

I heard that Buster's Beach House in the LBC is turning into a sports bar also!
Although not "Tiki" but OA lamps and Bamboo Ben decor.

Ugh.

A lot of issues came up during the main run of this thread.

I really didn’t expect it to get much notice, it was really designed as a tiny thread to just joke back and forth with MadDogMike, but man the TCers are quite a cerebral bunch and you folks should really be proud of yourselves.

Here’s the thing - what has happened to Tiki Palaces is scary, and according to the quotes below the direction our society is going in is even scarier. Comparing 1955 to 2011 is bound to be both divisive and illuminating no matter what the subject…

Anyway, here are the Hall of Fame Ultimate Quotes. All of these are to me essentially correct, and interesting as hell.

JeffBigTikiDude: (maybe the ultimate winner)
“I think that the answer is the Owners/Managers Have their heads up their collective asses.”

“…and the More I think about it.
the General Public has their heads up their asses,
and doesn't get Poly Pop/Tiki.”

BigBrotiki: (right on)
“Many folks equate anything vintage with 'dirty'. Not desirable for restaurants OR apartment buildings.”

Chip & Andy: (Great run-on stream of consciousness sentence, and anything with the words ‘Cranberry Accents’ is a winner)
“You have marketing and design departments full of ideas presenting their ideas to some middle level of management who put their two cents into the design before they give it to the next higher level of management who add their two cents and by the time it reaches the people who can say yes the idea has been flattened and homogenized so much as there is no character left but the top level management thinks its a good idea because they pay their marketing and design departments big bucks so they must know what they are doing when presenting this bland beige and dusty rose with cranberry accents plan.”

” …but, what is missing in most of today's 'Management' is Love.”
” Become cheerleaders for your local tiki bars and get people to go to them, show them how cool they are so they in turn bring others, and so on.”

“The bigger a company gets, the closer it gets to becoming a Corporation. The more Corporate it becomes the more it needs to make money to maintain its growth and eventually reaches a point where making money is the only goal.”

Mongoloid (interesting point, and interesting that the primary rule here on TC is that we cannot discuss religion, when we are talking about Tikis. I’ve always found it ridiculous and screamingly ethno-centric)
“The first thing that came to mind is that people can confuse tiki and consider and interperate it as a religious symbol and that by removing all tikis the hotel feels they will not be conflicting with someones beliefs and religion.”

Hakalugi:
“From a hotel restaurant perspective, and one that is somewhat isolated from other walking distance restaurants, the potential clientele is the people lodging at the hotel. The bean counter thinks he has a captive audience. Ideally the restaurant will move as many customers through the restaurant as fast as possible to maximize income. Any fancy decor or relaxing atmosphere only causes the diners to take their time, thus reducing the turnaround. Get rid of the great atmosphere and your diners per hour goes up!

Flawed in almost every respect...”

Aquarj:
“However, today's cultural landscape is far more eclectic, and it's possible to see a Forbidden Island or Smuggler's Cove thriving without being in the mainstream.”

“My neighbor wanted to paint his house, re-do his driveway, and change a bathroom. The city not only vetoed specific color choices on the exterior AND interior, but even dictated the colors he could choose from. They're essentially thinking about the lowest common denominator for all planning decisions, where the least offensive always trumps all else.”

“So imagine an owner facing massive impending renovation costs and dwindling attendance coupled with their own fatigue running the day to day enterprise. They're stuck.”

“The regulatory barriers to entry in most forms of the hospitality business have made it very difficult or almost impossible for the "lone visionary" to create a destination, or even take over and preserve the spirit in an existing place. It's not only the financing, but also the willingness to operate under all the modern constraints of safety, liability, staffing, etc. Only a rare individual has the capacity for all that, PLUS the execution of the day to day things that attract visitors, like good food and drinks. (Another reason to laud modern proprietors of Smuggler's Cove, Forbidden Island, Tonga Hut, Tiki Ti, the Mai Kai) All combined, this is a big reason why "Mom & Pops" are disappearing, and being replaced by much larger corporate entities with the consolidated capital to handle facilities costs, the teams of lawyers to handle and internally oversee all the modern legal and regulatory crap, and the economies of scale for the tasks of running the business.”

and . . .

“It could be that the Hanalei management wants to attract different kinds of conferences by having more of a blank canvas in their own decor. If you'd like to host conferences for any group, ranging from the National Seed & Fertilizer Society, to the Hermit Crab Lovers of North America, and the Fraternal Order of Glacial Ice Climbers, perhaps you want to de-emphasize your own theming so that visitors can transform the place into a seed, crab, or ice mecca for the duration of their conference.”

Gabbahey: (…and home is boring)
"DoubleTree has embarked on a multi-million dollar product enhancement initiative to reinvigorate the hotel experience and provide today's travelers with more of the residential feeling they enjoy at home."

Babalu:
Quote: “Fueling the growth, says Americas brand chief Gina LaBarre, is a combination of the chain’s refurbishing program, its mix of targeted amenities and services and its emphasis on what she calls “value over excess.”

Lucas Vigor:
“Actually, WE are all to blame.”

“Those cats had style, and a sense of whimsy....plus an exploratory spirit of adventure...who knows?”

Tiki Lee’s
“When you make your establishment look like everyone else's with a bland, neutral tone to the color, decor, style, etc., it's makes it easier to sell to other corperations who might be interested in buying the place if the present owners want to dump the property. If a potential buyer can buy a property that looks really similar to their other properties, the cost to make it "their own" is minimal, and thusly, very attractive.”

TikiG:
“Another snoop/scoop reveals that the property was audited by the parent company...recommended changes included consolidation of the restaurant into a full-service one with larger seating capacity, upgrades to the rooms into a higher class to stay competitive with surrounding hotel competition and to set it apart from Motel 6 - a neighbor, addition of conference rooms etc. because the Hanalei is a business conference hotel first and foremost, not a "book-by-the-night" motel."

MadDogMike:
“Just to add a little fuel to the fire and play devil's advocate - we look at the wonton destruction of Tiki Palaces and cringe in horror but we need to put the shoe on the other foot. Consider the fictitious "Fred's Fish Shack"; built in the 50s, it holds a dear spot in someone's heart because they went there on their first date. So they embark on a quest to save the place as a historical landmark. But the damned place is an eyesore and the food never was any good anyway. The only reason it stayed open was because Fred's wife had a day job that supported Fred's dream of owning a fish shack. It's located on prime real estate stands in the way of progress, it needs to be torn down to build - yes - ugly condos or another Walgreen's. So a few determined people and a good lawyer will stand in the way of progress for years, much to the dismay of 99% of the surrounding population.”

John-O (RIGHT ON Johnny!!!!)
“Why all the hate for "the corporations" ?? From a historic standpoint, Tiki was always by "The Man" and for "The Man".

“It amazes me how "anti-business" so many people here are. Let's say someone owns a struggling (yet profitable) mid-century Tiki business and then a large corporation offers to buy the land or location. If the owner takes up that offer to ensure the financial security of their family, is that "selling out" and being greedy or just being smart in our capitalist society ?

What would you do in a similar situation ?

Places like the Mai Kai and Tiki-Ti are anomolies and we should cherish them for as long as they exist, but we shouldn't expect others to "finance" our Tiki fix at a detriment to their cash flow.”

“It's all our own fault anyway. We spend all our time drinking in bars when we should be forming Political Action Committees and having representation in Washington D.C. !”

Tiki Trav (CORRECT!)
“…but for the record, I thought it was just to fit more seats where those pesky bridges/waterfalls were...”

Tom Slick
“ALL of the big casino/hotels are rethinking, replanning, rebranding, and leading to eventual remodeling, and losing All theme. ALL of the new resorts that have been built in the last 4 years are plain jane/brass & glass painted in white, with marble floors. There is no more "theming" in Vegas, on the Corporate level, unless that theme is representative of Wealthy or Rich.”

Limbo Lizard
“Beige is business, and doesn't attract criticism of expenditures like dense tiki decor and drinks named, e.g., "Vicious Virgin" would.”

“As we defend the prudence of our management judgment, and how the problems could not have been foreseen,… the LAST thing we need is someone whipping out a 2-year-old picture of our executives gathered around a table, with a roasted pig in the middle, and one of them being served a big flaming bowl of alcohol by a scantily attired maiden (or cocktails by Playboy bunnies).”

And . . .

Thanks to all the players!

On 2011-03-02 20:54, Cammo wrote:

*"Here's the runner-up... none other than Limbo Lizardman...

[he] gets the following, mailed immediately to his home, free of charge:*

The Extremely Rare, One-Of -A-Kind GOLDEN STONED Glazed Oki Doki Mug

I missed about a week of paying attention to TC, while in the final stages of helping plan and "put on" our boat club's annual Commodore's Ball, and a few more days recovering from the "fun" (open bar = "fun"). Just saw the awards post, last night.
Wow, I really appreciate the custom mug, Cammo. I will clear a space, in anticipation of its arrival, and display it in a prominent position of honor!
And I, too, greatly enjoyed this semester... I mean, thread. Great mental stimulation for all of us. With some re-organizing and editing, this thread might be a substantial part of a successful dissertation.

The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA

On 2011-01-31 18:34, Cammo wrote:
Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

I mean, what's the reason?

In the case of the Tonga Hut in SF, and Trader Vics Bev Hills, expensive, high-rise condos.

On 2011-03-09 07:24, lucas vigor wrote:
The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA

That was COOL !! (and educational at the same time) Thanks Lucas.

I'd like to see them play a major Tiki event and piss everyone off.

That would really be Punk Rock. :D

And here's another fun one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5XxsmxIkM

It's sooo bad... That it's really GREAT !! Is it being played straight ??

Actually here's some "real" Punkers doing the Lounge version...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUbnOFPud3M

And OMG, that guy was lead guitarist for Surf music pioneers, the Impacts (?? !!) Another link in the great Tiki / Surf Music puzzle connection.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-03-09 14:37 ]

On 2011-03-09 12:49, JOHN-O wrote:

On 2011-03-09 07:24, lucas vigor wrote:
The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA

That was COOL !! (and educational at the same time) Thanks Lucas.

I'd like to see them play a major Tiki event and piss everyone off.

Basically, they already have. Or at least bands just like them. Only, they didn't piss anyone off except ME. In some cases, bands like this were headlining or playing the prime slots, like at 10:00 in the evening when everyone is good and drunk and may not have noticed how bad the band really was.

I am sure they are very nice people, but this is not polypop. This is party city tiki, with less then 2 degrees of separation of Jimmy Buffet. And unfortunately, THIS is what a large majority of people outside of tiki central (and perhaps some IN Tiki central) believe Tiki to be.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it's what some other people also think...(but are hesitant to say in public, less they be perceived as being "negative".)

It all goes back to my main point that if WE are not sure what tiki is, or what it means, or the coolness and radness of what it used to be and where it came from, then how can we expect outsiders to understand? And can we fully blame them when they mow down a Trader Vics and make it into a sport's bar? The kind of place with margaritas and a few palapas or party city tikis, and Merrell Fankhauser setting up his band in the corner?

http://www.myspace.com/lucasvigor

"yer jus not tuned into the series of tubes yet, let it soak in".

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2011-03-09 14:53 ]

On 2011-03-09 14:43, lucas vigor wrote:

On 2011-03-09 12:49, JOHN-O wrote:

On 2011-03-09 07:24, lucas vigor wrote:
The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA

That was COOL !! (and educational at the same time) Thanks Lucas.

I'd like to see them play a major Tiki event and piss everyone off.

Basically, they already have. Or at least bands just like them.

I am sure they are very nice people, but this is not polypop. This is party city tiki, with less then 2 degrees of separation of Jimmy Buffet. And unfortunately, THIS is what a large majority of people outside of tiki central (and perhaps some IN Tiki central) believe Tiki to be.

What?.....

Really....

After the whole Cribe fiasco, you're point is well taken. I tried to be gentle with him and tried to be open to listen, but in the end, a parrothead is a parrothead. Now, I have what is tantamount to a margaritaville hangover. Some people say there's a woman to blame, but it's my own damn fault. I won't make that mistake twice.

in the end, a parrothead is a parrothead.

Damn right! And their insidious culture IS making in-roads everywhere! They are coming......

C'mon Lucas, the state of Tiki in the 21st-century is pretty darn good.

We have the "new" Don the Beachcomber, the "new" Tonga Hut, Tiki No, Trader Vic's DTLA (it could be improved, but the fact that it exists is promising), Frankie's Tiki Room, Forbidden Island, and Smuggler's Cove (a great superset of Tiki). I'm REALLY hopeful and looking forward to the "Tiki" lounge being built on the 3rd-floor of Clifton's Cafeteria which I expect will be a faithful homage to the pre-Tiki Clifton's Pacific Seas. It doesn't get any more old-school cool than that.

Also the New Cocktailian mixology boom is really blowing up, and how about the music? We have classic Exotica bands like Tikiyaki Orchestra and Martini Kings, and bands that have invented their own Tiki genres like Hula Girls and Ding Dong Devils. If "mainstream" events like Tiki Oasis seem to be getting too large for some people, then more smaller and more specialized events like Mojave Oasis take off. And I won't even get into the art.

Who cares what the general public's perception of Tiki is, when we (the purists?) can have our own private Tiki sandbox to play in? And that's what I think exists right now.

Yes it is sad to lose Beverly Hills Trader Vic's and (eventually) the Tonga Room, but net net don't you think Tiki culture is in better shape now than 10 years ago.

I know that "Party City" and Parrot Head Tiki horrifies you, but to me it just provides a great laugh. It's kind of like in the Punk Rock days, we were horrified by bands like ELO, Foreigner, Genesis, etc. Now that music is just great cheesy nostalgic fun.

(Hmm... Actually have we had this conversation before? I'm getting a sense of deja vu in writing it. Gotta love the circular arguments of TC).

Sorry Cammo for the derail, but the thread is winding down. Great job BTW.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-03-09 15:41 ]

I think we need to add that the Bali Hai was updated and allowed to stand- and in even better shape then before. he

The updated Trader Vic's in Emeryville is a testament to staying power.

The Kon Tiki is still going strong.

Personally, I really dig the Scottsdale Trader Vic's. Think whatever you may about it. The patio is a killer

The Mai Kai is going strong. Hell, even New York has Tiki by the lake in St. George.

Portland has Thatch.

What am I missing....

PALM SPRINGS has an empty Reef Bar.

And soon, in September, we will have the LA Tiki Bar Crawl.