So you wanna open your own commercial Tiki Bar huh?

Then where do you start? what are the tricks? What are the traps? What's the profitability?

First, make sure you are filling a need that exists in the community. It's not enough to have a personal dream of opening one.

That being the case, obviously, how much can a tiki bar appeal as a bar regardless of theme with the added benefit of awesome decor?

Here in the UK, Tiki bars are popular because they cater to young people and those with money to spend on a night out. This may mean it does not fit with the purist/ romantic vision of days gone by, but, it makes a LOT of money (eg Mahiki), although good PR and positioning helped a lot.
Most bars try to work on a 72-75% GP which means you probably won't be serving Zombies at $5 a go whilst keeeping to Dons original recipe. But the ingredients are Premium and fresh and the drinks mostly well made.

Then again, a small local bar can work well but it is harder to change peoples drinking habits for a quick after work drink, when a cold beer is what they want not a Mai Tai.

Hi, there are a few "open a tiki bar" threads that will give you a lot of insight. You might contact Primo Kimo from Vermont- he opened a bar and unfortunately had to close it a few years(?) later. Forbidden Island in Alameda is probably a good case history for a success. They opened a tiki bar in a general area that had no lack of them (The San Francisco East Bay)- Martiki focused on making the BEST drinks with the BEST ingredients and for Alameda, they were priced high! Not high in general, but Alameda had never had prices like that. They were cheaper than Trader Vics if I recall correctly. What happened when they opened...did the locals see the drink prices and run out the door?...some may have, but what ended up is the the was a LINE AT THE DOOR waiting to get in for an easy 8 months straight, and even longer on weekends! Sure some locals complained "8 bucks for a drink!","no Corona beer?!?!", but word spread among the locals with taste and the place is still popular today-maybe 6 years(?) later!
Rule number one--The Tiki Community is TOO SMALL to support your bar 100 percent. SO you have to appeal to OTHERS!
Good luck and don't forget to name a drink after me!

Visit the successful ones and see how they operate.

Write a business plan.

Talk to a lot of bar and restaurant owners. Does not need to be a Tiki bar. The business is the same to a large degree.

When you visit those Tiki bars, you need to pay a lot of attention to the bartenders. Making these drinks quickly is not easy. Not at all... There is an art to the bar set-up and the mixing.

Get partners. Preferably with experience.

How To Make a Small Fortune by Opening a Tiki Bar

Step 1: Begin with a large fortune...

Anyone "been there, done that"??

Trav, I think you know I've opened many restaurants/bars over the 24 years I've been in the business and currently have 18. But none of them are tiki.

I think the question of how high of quality you want your drinks to be vs how much volume exists at a high price point is an important one. In this business we all want our bars to be packed with people waiting to get in. In a given market, what will create that desire to be there?

I'd love to have a bar like the Tiki Ti. I do not know of a location where I could open a bar like Tiki Ti that would be a financial success.

I recall a very good thread something like a couple years back dealing with the same question, answered quite thoroughly with an in-depth list of not only the basic requirements, but also all of the little, tiny and most important details that one never initially thinks of when coming up with such a grand scheme (not that you haven't thought all that out already).
Don't remember anything about the thread regarding author or title, but enough time doing a search would bring it out of the water. Only trouble is what the search words to use would be....

I think that what Bongo Bungalow, Mr. Smiley, and others have said in this thread are important words.

How high of quality do you want your drinks...? is an important one. It's more expensive to make high quality drinks, and it actually takes a tremendous amount of skill, speed, caring, dedication, and poise and stamina to be behind the stick, especially on an extremely crowded night. Not just anyone can do it, or even have the amount of caring needed to craft each drink with precision. Have you seen the amount of speed and hard work that Mike Sr. at the Tiki Ti throws into his drink making efforts on a busy night? Same goes for Suzanne and others at Forbidden Island, or the bartenders at Smuggler's Cove. Ever watch Jim Shoemake or Sonya Runkle crank out perfect drink after drink with seeming ease, yet each one is amazing? You have to have someone behind the stick that is a huge cocktail aficionado, and can geek out over the certain nuances that particular ingredients can provide in a multi layered ingredient drink, whether that's a certain rum, juice, liqueur, particular brand of absinthe, hell fire tincture, etc.

It also takes a great amount of effort to either make your own fresh juices every day, or find a source for fresh juice. Same goes for the exotic syrups, as well as the not-so-exotic syrups too. A huge amount of time goes into sourcing fruit and all of the other ingredients needed, let alone transporting these ingredients, then taking the time to convert them into usable tasty ingredients that can be poured in a speedy fashion. Tiki Ti doesn't use fresh juice, but they do make or use custom secret syrups, and you can find Mike Sr. actually in the bar prepping long before opening hour.

So, if you're dedicated to making top notch cocktails, the next question should be is there actually a demand for these drinks in my area, and can those drinks be consistently sold? There is a reason why so many bars sell crap well spirits with crap mixers, and crap beer - that's all that their local clientele wants, and anything "fancier" and more expensive would be met with scorn and ridicule. When I went to Rum Jungle in Las Vegas a few years ago, I quickly realized that although they had a huge wall of rum behind the bar, it was really only 6 or 7 of the same rums repeated over and over and over. And although they carried Pirate XO, they didn't even have fresh (or canned) lime juice - or even simple syrup - to make a Planter's Punch!

Then you have to have the decor. For me, there has to be a huge escapism factor when you step into a tiki bar, a very "Disney-esque" experience like stepping into a dark ride and instantly being taken somewhere else. Forbidden Island has it, the Mai Kai most definitely has it, I hear that Frankie's has it too, even though I haven't been there yet, but not a lot of other places have "it".

So, in my humble opinion, if you are able to have top notch bartenders serve top notch drinks made from top notch fresh or canned ingredients in a good location with top notch decor and can consistently sell those drinks, then you'll most likely have the recipe for success. But you'll have to charge prices that match and can sustain quality cocktails, and pay to retain a good staff, and pay for quality spirits and quality mixers and ingredients, as well as deal with rent, utilities, and all the other overhead. Not an easy proposition. It's easy to see why most bar owners these days take the easy way out, and just serve crap stuff, because it's too hard to do things at the level that most of us appreciate here, and I'm guessing that most of today's bar owners can't be bothered.

Twitch you're right.. how do you search for a thread on tiki central using keywords like "bar"?...

I guess here in Australia the market is very different and drinking culture a little respectfully crude,
A tiki bar here would most certainly describe the decor, not the product with only a handfull of "signature drinks" sufficient.
99% of patrons here drink basic beer & well spirits almost without exception. (Even shots are rare and nobody has even heard of Patron)
I would say that 99% of bartenders here couldn't make you a maitai and even if they knew the ingredients would not have them on hand.
So I guess in the Aussie market there exists an opportunity to use tiki theming as a promotional tool with the usual gimmicks such as keeper mugs but for a mostly generic beverage product...

Trav, some of the best cocktail bartenders in London come from OZ and NZ and they all go home at some point.
I think one of the problems in Oz is finding the stock

Also in my experience you can teach people to make good drinks, I have seen kids go from only being able to pour a beer to making near perfect drinks whilst speed pouring in an afternoon, appreciation of flavour takes a while longer.

G'day Trav, as a fellow Aussie, albeit from Melbourne, just thought i'd give my two cents.

To me, Tiki culture and cocktails are interlinked and I became interested in both around the same time. Although I am not a bartender I have quite a vast knowledge about cocktails and spirits just because they interest me and i've read a lot about them. Because of that I have made some good friends who are bartenders because I think they had respect for me as I didn't enter a cocktail bar and ask for a bourbon and coke. I would usually let them make me whatever they wanted, generally with gin or rum (my favourite spirits) and would ask questions about the different brands they used, ratios, etc. and would question why they might have been using a certain recipe when it sounded different to what I had read about and was familiar with. Without sounding like I have an big head, everyone now calls me Tiki Rob and bartenders never really question, or disagree with me about my knowledge on tiki drinks because whilst they might be bartenders and I am not, they know that I am passionate about tiki/tiki drinks and probably know more about them than they do. I have had a few bartenders ask me why I dont work in a bar as I know a hell of a lot more than half their staff, but that's another story.

One bartender I met was into Tiki himself and we have become quite good friends because of our shared interest. He has worked at and managed several cocktail bars and plans to open his own bar soon. Now whilst he loves Tiki himself, he is NOT going to open a Tiki bar as he doesn't believe it would work, and I agree with him. He wants to open a RUM bar that will have a Tiki element to it without going all the way and over the top, but most likely in a second room. As I said, i'm no bartender but have discussed this topic at length with him and those in the industry, and no-one here seems willing to take the risk, but without trying you never know. It could go crazy there as it could here.

My point is, and my personal opinion, finally :), is that running a successful cocktail bar, which a Tiki bar would be, is already a competitive and difficult area to succeed in that requires a fairly large financial investment to begin with. I dont know what it's like up on the Gold Coast but I feel that we would have more people interested in Tiki here in Melbourne, although the climate up there is more appropriate, but still nowhere near enough to keep a business like a 100% dedicated Tiki bar, afloat. As others have mentioned, as you have yourself, you need and would have to offer beer, wine, etc to get the punters in and coming back. That's why my friend only wants to add a Tiki element to the bar rather than going the whole hog, as a Tiki bar in Aus. would just seem like a novelty and might not be enough to keep customers coming back.

I'm not sure if you've heard of the Hula Bula bar in Perth, but that is a 100% dedicated Tiki bar that has been running for several years now. I flew over a few years ago specifically to check it out, and it's awesome decor wise, but I must admit I wasnt blown away by the drinks. I got there Wednesday evening and went straight there and it was fairly quiet, but on Thursday, Friday and Saturday night it was PACKED. They had a happy hour, either 5-7 or 6-8, with I think $10 Mai Tais and just about everyone was ordering them, including guys in suits (I think I was the only person there with an aloha shirt on). Although I must say I'm not sure what everyone started drinking after happy hour was over. I cant remember.:D So it seems if it works over in Perth it's hard to think why it wouldn't work here in Melbourne and even more so where you are because of your climate. Who knows, but all the best if you give it a go. Let me know when/if it's up and running because i'd definitely come up to meet you and check it out.

P.S. Apologies to all that that took a while to get my point/opinion across. :lol:

When I was working on my own plan, I sat down with the head of Ruby Tuesday. One of 3 who started that chain. The point that is important is this. A good restaurant with a bar has a lot to consider. There is a certain percentage of tops that will order a cocktail and a percentage that will order off the cocktail menu. That's for Ruby Tuesday, TGIFriday's, etc.

You change the theme to Mexican, and you see that percentage instantly go up due to Margarita sales plus import beers. Your margin goes up instantly with that theme. All the food costs and other factors are still there. All the people steeling from you when ever possible, etc. Servers out sick, toilets overflowing at 1AM, etc.

Then you make it a Tiki theme and you put the drinkmenu in their hands first and they see flaming volcano bowls and smoking brews and such, and they have to order off that menu. Your percentage goes way up. Your magin gets even better. If those drinks are actually good, yes, very good margin.

HOWEVER! Are people going to come back? I go to my favorite restaurant 2 times a week easy. I travel to other faves monthly. (Across town) So, you CANNOT get all wacky with the food! Forget the theme food and make damned sure you have a good mix with a great burger and chicken and whatever is going to keep people eating there regularly.

If you go for a bar only. If that is even legal in your city, you have a tougher road. You gotta be "hip". You aslo have to be ready for people to walk in and say "I love the tacky tiki!" Yeah. Stings. Whatever.

My plan? Find a restaurant doing well and sub-lease their bar area and give it a make-over and take over it. Let them handle all the big head-aches and just turn their bar into a huge money maker. Keep it on a sort of hobby level. Bar manager...

"Also in my experience you can teach people to make good drinks, I have seen kids go from only being able to pour a beer to making near perfect drinks whilst speed pouring in an afternoon, appreciation of flavour takes a while longer."

Cheekytiki, you're absolutely right. When I worked at Chinawhite in London (which served amazing tropical cocktails) they would hire young, relatively inexperienced bartenders from Australia, Russia, France, Sweden, Brazil, Italy and after a few days(or nights)of training they were turning out first class cocktails. Of course, it helped that those training them had spent a few years at the London Trader Vics and knew exactly what they were doing.

Many of us love to make the highest quality drinks at home. Should we expect that... will we pay for that when we go out? Such drinks are WAY cheaper to make at home.

So... how a bout a tiki bar with great decor and just good drinks at a reasonable retail. Is that a recipe for success?

I've said it here before somewhere, but my bars do a great volume with frozen margaritas and they are reasonably priced and very profitable for me. (Mexican themed restaurants) This allows me to offer a great Mai Tai that doesn't sell all that well and at a retail that is considered kinda high in my markets. That's OK, I don't need to sell many of these but for discriminating guests, I've got it available.

So... you've got a tiki themed bar. If high quality, high retail drinks don't create the volume you need to keep your place open, what drink is going to?

Check out Hula's in Monterey and in Santa Cruz. They're a restaurant and bar that straddles perfectly the sort-of-tiki nebulous Tommy Bahama, Beachboys, woodies surfer cars, palapas booths, old travel posters, decor that's pretty typical of a lot of places, and combines it with each having a seperate back room that are incredible, spot on, dark, windowless, Witco, Leeteg, Orchids of Hawaii, moody old style Tiki rooms that take your breath away. Their bread and butter is the sunny front room Hodad spot, but their soul is in those back rooms. They do a ton of business just slinging the Bud, but they also do the tropical drinks and let those with more discriminating tastes enjoy the intimate and relaxing lounges, away from the maddening Jaggermister crowds. They are very successful; you need reservations for dinner on the weekends and the bars can be packed. I think they are the model for modern Tiki bar/restaurant success. Old school can't do it alone, but mixing in the new, and honoring the old(which exposes new people to real Tiki)works.

The New: http://www.you3dview.com/video/477/Hulas-Island-Grill--Santa-Cruz-CA
with
The Old: http://www.you3dview.com/video/490/Hulas-Island-Grills-Tiki-Room--Santa-Cruz-CA

I think the Aussie culture would be more receptive to a more generic surf/tropical bar (with a bunch of tikis of course), as opposed to the traditional American style tiki bars. Especially so up the Gold Coast way I reckon, as opposed to Melbourne which has a much more sophisticated restaurant culture which I would think would be much more receptive to a tiki cocktail bar. The problem with a surf/tropical theme is attracting the schoolies type demographic who are there to get trashed with the cocktails, which becomes its own issue...

I worked as a dish pig in a restaurant for 5 years or so while I was at school/uni, no amount of money could persuade me it was a good idea to open my own bar or restaurant, those guys work their ass off at the best of times, let alone starting something up from scratch. Maybe a small cafe or something, but thats about it.

If you're fair dinkum about it get some work in a bar and get experience from that side of things, particularly if you can get into some manager type role so you get a better look at all the things you need to consider. Lots of work and time to work towards the end goal, but if you want it that much its the best way to learn.

aloha Trav,

i can easily picture the entire fishermans wharf venue as a massive tiki grotto...heh heh heh...

now that'd be somethin' else!!!

seriously though, to my mind anyway, you'd have at least as much chance as any other smaller bar

on the goldie, particularly if situated from, say, surfers down to around broadbeach, or maybe down

coolangatta way? but probably a lot more tourists (and locals) up in the northern parts

lookin' to party and get...er... lei'd.

no shortage of huge maori guys for security, actually knew several polynesian dancers during my time

there (those gals'd be a bit long in the tooth now though...), great weather, a very strong surf scene

etc. etc. etc. i think you'd be on a winner.

btw, you are thinking of the gold coast? i read somewhere here you were up cairns way at some stage?

where i don't think it would work, myself.

anyhows, wishing you every success if you go ahead with it.

cheers, bob

Some quality insight here..
Obviously:
It takes a lot of hard work
You would probably go broke
Most start-up businesses fail
There's a lot of competition
It's a niche market

I think we all know these things and really want to know people's thoughts on how to make it WORK..

While personally not in a position to go into this type of venture any time soon, I just wanted to open a dialog about general feasibility in different areas, & why one thing might work in one location & not another etc.. We are on the Gold Coast (QLD Australia) currently and there are opportunities and great locations here as there are in other parts of the world ut its a different game every where you go..

One thing I have noticed during my time in in California is that there are lots of neighborhood bars that are popular for really no reason other than a stocked bar.
If they can survive (some for over 50 years) on friendly bar tenders and standard drinks alone then the same must be possible with tiki decor even if for no apparent reason. I wonder if it's possible here in Oz?

Hi Trav
Steve here from Otto's Shrunken Head in NYC. I've had Otto's for 8+ years in NYC and the reason we succeed is that we fill a niche and have built a community. If you can do that it doesn't matter what kind of bar you open. We are no Mai Kai or Trader Vic's we have a handful of Tiki drinks, we survive on our live music scene and the community that comes with that scene. We are constantly booking bands, DJs, events and parties. The fact that we're a Tiki bar adds to our appeal but we would NEVER survive on trying to be just a Tiki bar. A hardcore high end cocktail bar is extremely difficult to run, the amount of ingredients and training and time involved is prohibitive. When the bar is 4 deep and everyone is asking what's in this drink or that drink you'll start pulling your hair out.

I'm not saying don't do it, but if you are going to do it, realize what you are getting into and find a way that works. You are going to have to compromise somewhere.
good luck

Thanks for all the great advice on this post everyone! I'm planning to open a tiki bar in Toronto and could use the support and encouragement as it's my first time opening a bar.
I think as far as filling a need in the community, I'll be okay; there seems to never be enough bars downtown, especially ones where you can sit and talk at a reasonable level on a weekend.
I definitely intend to serve high quality drinks with fresh ingredients but being in Canada, I'll have to serve beer too. Canucks like their beer!
I also intend to have bands play and have theme nights/events every day of the week.

I think my biggest concerns though are the insurance and decor.
Has anyone here that currently owns or has owned a tiki bar had any issues with fire insurance? I've spoke to a lot of people that say I'm going to have problems with serving flaming drinks in a grass mat and fabric clad environment.

Also, does anyone have any advice where I can get tiki carvings, fabric for the walls, glass floats, decent nets and ropes etc. that are either in Canada or close to Buffalo? As much as I would love to, I don't know if it's feasible to haul out a van load of goodies from Oceanic Arts...

any other advice you have for me will also be gratefully appreciated too!

mahalo!

On 2011-03-09 15:07, tastysp wrote:
When the bar is 4 deep and everyone is asking what's in this drink or that drink you'll start pulling your hair out.

This is why it can be useful to have at least one bartender working a service station at the quiet end of the bar knocking out drinks for waitresses without being bothered by the customers.

Corrinnao,
As far as thatches and flaming drinks go.
If you have all the materials installed in your bar professionally fire retarded with a product that meets local and national regulations you should be fine. If fire inspectors pass you, an insurance company should have no reason to penalise you.
I have installed a fair few bars now and never had one fail to meet regs (touch wood)

I really should get on TC more regularly as this threads a good read. I agree with Trav’s succinct summary above – bars are risky businesses, but after visiting tiki bars around the world and witnessing the burgeoning UK tiki bar scene its hard not to imagine the current trend filtering down to Australia in some form or another. Apart from Hula Bula in Perth and a small Tiki lounge in Melbourne, the trend of well crafted tropical cocktails / communal drinks as a spectacle / sophisticated tiki décor etc hasn’t hit the otherwise finger-on-pulse bar culture of Syd/Melb yet. Why hasn’t someone attempted it yet? I’m very interested to know about this as its something I’ve floated as a business idea amongst various contacts. The obvious risk I see is what was mentioned earlier that 95% of average Australians only want beer or basic spirits so the marketing plan for drinks must be well thought out (ie location, target demographics, quality v cost etc, as touched on above). I just hope that when someone does do it that they do it properly so that the “tiki bar” idea doesn’t come across as “tacky” to the general public.

As for the Gold coast Trav – its an interesting place that’s had a few cool shops and bars come and go over my lifetime near there, and a few years ago some friends resurrected the dilapidated Crab Cooker restaurant in Surfers Paradise into a happening 70’s style beachhouse bar and club (Swingin Safari), fitted out entirely with cool junk shop finds. Strangely enough it was hugely popular with the surfer kids but then new management overtook it and I’m not sure how it is these days, but its testament that funky places out of the ordinary can survive in the capital of plastic Surfers of all places.

On 2011-03-10 05:45, harro wrote:
but then new management overtook it

i'd picture that as being an instance where some indiscriminate mob momentarily took their
collective finger off the pulse, not to say that there aren't other forces at play in queensland,
and far be it from me to suggest that australian surfers, plastic or otherwise, could grasp anything
even closely resembling cool, but i'll tell ya what is filtering down from britain, and that's will&kates'
impending wedlock, how's that all going?

On 2011-03-10 07:57, komohana wrote:

On 2011-03-10 05:45, harro wrote:
but then new management overtook it

i'd picture that as being an instance where some indiscriminate mob momentarily took their
collective finger off the pulse, not to say that there aren't other forces at play in queensland,
and far be it from me to suggest that australian surfers, plastic or otherwise, could grasp anything
even closely resembling cool, but i'll tell ya what is filtering down from britain, and that's will&kates'
impending wedlock, how's that all going?

Hey I’m a surfer too, and I love that lifestyle but Surfers paradise is anything but a paradise!! Gimme the tweed/sunshine coast anyday.

Maybe I’m not following your reaction, but my point was that a cool place can be created and supported in the gold coast, but traditionally its hard for anything “different” there - to use another form of venue as an example: sadly most live venues on the coast that I used to play at in the 90’s, early 2000’s have all died out (eg playroom, trocadero etc) but beer barns and nightclubs go on strong. Same could probably be said about of a lot of cities though I guess.

At least will’s giving us a public holiday here which gives us two consecutive 4 day weekends to get the hell away from all the wedding shite!

Harro, Swingin Safari is really the only bar I choose to go to around here.. it's going strong and always good people and no dramas... There is definately a lack of live music venues which could be a big draw card around here.. there is also the new "small bar licence" available now in Queensland which is around $500 so cheap compared to traditional bar licencing but still all the fees for development approvals etc.. you can only have 60 patrons in the premises at one time and only trade to midnight with late trading for specific events on application..

What would (could) work here is something similar in size to Otto's in NYC or the Pink Elephant in San Diego (both have room for live music) with a look similar to say the Tonga Hut in north Hollywood (understated but unmistakably classic tiki bar)

Thoughts?

On 2011-03-10 00:30, cheekytiki wrote:

On 2011-03-09 15:07, tastysp wrote:
When the bar is 4 deep and everyone is asking what's in this drink or that drink you'll start pulling your hair out.

This is why it can be useful to have at least one bartender working a service station at the quiet end of the bar knocking out drinks for waitresses without being bothered by the customers.

Thing is we don't have waitresses/waiters, we're a give n go bar and it seems that's what the OP is looking to do.

to the OP if you want to have live music, this comes with it's own share of problems,
If you look at the comments above, the average Tikiphile is looking for a nice quiet place to have a cocktail that's done right.
When you own a bar, that's the LAST thing you want on a weekend, if you want to make money, then volume is the way to do it, that means, beer and shot, loud music from live bands which is anathema to most Tikiphiles.
We use (gasp!) plastic cups on the weekends for our non tiki drinks because of breakage, dancing, moshing and general stupidity.
The ideal tiki enviroment is just not a realistic way to make money, esp. on a weekend.
I've been to Painkiller in NYC on the weekends and I will say that they have one of the most amazing drink menus I've ever seen but on a weekend it's insane in there!
You may have to wait up to 20-30 minutes to get your drink sometimes. The drink will be awesome but sometimes I ask myself, how can they keep this up? Compare that to a bar that can sell 60 beers or vodka tonics in that same time frame and money will always win out in the end. If you are going to a bar to see a band, are you going to wait at the bar for 20 minutes for a drink?

[ Edited by: tastysp 2011-03-11 09:53 ]

Trav I think with the excellent advice from tastysp above, your idea of cool small live venue could find a good following. But I agree with tastysp that making money from cocktails alone, especially in Oz, would be difficult and that something else should be the drawcard (eg live music) and the bar needs to predominantly sell high volume beers/basics to make it worth all the risks. Thanks for your post tastysp as it partly answers my question above on why tiki cocktail bars haven't/won't take off in Oz.