This weekend as Caliente Tropics III was in full swing right next door, there apparently was a small tremor that caused the front right main beam of the iconic A Frame of the Caliente Tropics to break, lowering the structure several feet, and even cracking the tiki at the peak to crack in half.

Lots of speculation about Bad Kharma are milling about, but, despite having very Tiki UN-Friendly owners, this puts it in serious risk of demolition,and although the owners shun us as a community, I feel that some effort from us all to convince the owners to restore it, as oppose to just knocking it down. would be be a good idea. Perhaps some help from the Palm Springs Modern Committee would be persuasive too. We all know they don't really embrace the tiki thing, but it's an icon worth taking the effort to save.

Although, they basically have driven bith Tiki Oasis AND Tiki Caliente out of the hotel, the historical significance is bigger than that.

What's even worse is, I heard it happened during the Tikiyaki Orchestra set on Saturday night. :o

Anyway, here is the contact info for the Tropics, should anyone decide to write and tell them they care enough and would like to see it repaired.....Telling them how much you like staying there and are looking forward to staying there again soon would help too, since it seems that money talks when it comes to the current "management".

http://www.calientetropics.com/contact-us.php

Anyway, here are the pics courtesy of Tiki Ray, and Polynesian Pop.

[ Edited by: tikiyaki 2011-05-22 20:18 ]

Terrible news.
I highly recommend asking the Palm Springs Modernism Committee to intercede.

Are you sure it was an earthquake?
I didn't see anything in the Desert Sun about any seismic activity.

I hope it was not an earthquake because there is a very distinct possibility that the hotel's owners did not purchase the earthquake rider, which are extraordinarily expensive. Consequently, it is likely that the insurance company will decline coverage if the cause is seismic, meaning there will be no insurance payment to pay for the rebuild.

Remember the prom scene in "Carrie" ??

Don't mess with Rory.

(Or Tikiyaki O.)

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-05-23 09:00 ]

I gotta agree with Jim
As much as the owner has dissed us we gotta support the rebuild of this historic site

WOW! That just plain sucks, despite all that silly karma talk. A tragedy.

What a bummer. Need to start a rebuilding campaign for one of the most iconic and enduring Tiki structres of all time.

DC

The front bottom right support looked a lil' termite riddled. It also was twisted looking. Crazy stuff. I'm only guessing that the weight of the tile roofing
didn't help either. I'm only guessing that it was engineered for shake shingles. Hope they can rebuild it.

On 2011-05-22 22:01, RevBambooBen wrote:
The front bottom right support looked a lil' termite riddled. It also was twisted looking. Crazy stuff. I'm only guessing that the weight of the tile roofing
didn't help either. I'm only guessing that it was engineered for shake shingles. Hope they can rebuild it.

Funny, Jeremy from the Tonga Hut said the same thing about the shingles while we were both looking at it.

I wonder what the cost would be to restore it as opposed to knocking it down and building something lame and boring in it's place.

It doesn't seem that difficult to restore, but I'm no engineer. You'd need a serious piece of lumber to replace that entire beam tho'.

Speaking as an architect/contractor's daughter... Whether or not this can be saved will depend on the extent of the termite/wood rot damage to this structure. If it has extensive damage, the Palm Springs building inspectors might not allow it to be saved. If it's just the lower support beams that are damaged (and being closest to the ground - moisture/termites- they might be), it might be possible to cut those parts off, and create new cement supports underneath. I think the ceiling tiles are too heavy for this structure, California outlawed wood shake roof shingles years ago and everyone who had to re-roof had to use asphalt or other roofing materials to replace. However, something lighter and up-to-code is probably available. Last hopeful possibility: IF the structure has to be demolished (due to damage, etc.), a new replica of this could be built, IF the A-frame design passes current building code standards. And that's where the Palm Springs Preservation Society and Palm Springs Modern could step in and help make this possible. http://www.pspreservationfoundation.org/
http://psmodcom.org/

[ Edited by: Tangaroa-Ru 2011-05-23 08:32 ]

That structure is too big to lift up and add supports. It will have to come down completely to rebuild to the original form or any other way they design. But just to clear up some details, we are not sure when it happened. But Cindy said that right after Tikiyaki finished their set she heard a large crack and then a Boom sound in the distance. We could only assume that it was the sound of the Caliente structure. Tikiyaki played a great set but its not confirmed that they brought dowm the Caliente roof. It makes a great story because of their anti tiki people attitude and then the Kharma rumors started flowing. Anyways we hope they find the funds to restore it.

There was no noticeable earthquake in the Palm Springs area over the weekend. Based on my experience, and after seeing the damage the first time, this is termites. Termites were a significant problem but fully-eradicated (with minor structural enhancements to the base/legs if I recall) when the resort re-opened in 2001 and there was regular pro-active treatment until March of 2005. If the preservationists get involved, there is an even bigger picture illustrated in the systematic destruction of the original exterior which was (also) painstakingly restored. AND, the operators are changing the rooms as well.

The City of Palm Springs had to sign-off on the exterior when the resort was under renovation. While that is not about the roof specifically, the City of Palm Springs would probably make an effort to advocate restoration--a point of some leverage.

Unfortunately, while PSModCom played a HUGE role in influencing the decision to restore the resort, the tropics has been (and remains) the poor step-child of the modern movement in Palm Springs. On all appropriate levels, PSModComm absolutely has the resources to pursue this, in addition to the PS Preservation Foundation, but whether it is seen as worthwhile to the somewhat PS elite modernist movement remains to be proven. Don't forget, there is also the Historical Site Preservation Board as well. Resources are here, they just need to be engaged.

Ultimately, everyone had better pray there is some form of insurance to cover this. Otherwise, the "owners" will absolutely tell everyone......well, they won't spend $ and they don't care.

On 2011-05-23 08:49, TIKI-RAY wrote:
That structure is too big to lift up and add supports. It will have to come down completely to rebuild to the original form or any other way they design. But just to clear up some details, we are not sure when it happened. But Cindy said that right after Tikiyaki finished their set she heard a large crack and then a Boom sound in the distance. We could only assume that it was the sound of the Caliente structure. Tikiyaki played a great set but its not confirmed that they brought dowm the Caliente roof. It makes a great story because of their anti tiki people attitude and then the Kharma rumors started flowing. Anyways we hope they find the funds to restore it.

Be that as it may....just know that I will fully exploit this for Tikiyaki folk lore...as you know....we've been known to, (ahem)...."weave a creative story" when it comes to the grand schemes of The Tikiyaki Orchestra. :D

So,pay no attention to the ray behind that tiki folks.... The band played earthshakingly, and the Tiki Gods were angered.....it happens. :tiki:

tikiyaki- brings down the house !!! literally !!

On 2011-05-23 10:06, CaseyJPS wrote:
There was no noticeable earthquake in the Palm Springs area over the weekend. Based on my experience, and after seeing the damage the first time, this is termites. Termites were a significant problem but fully-eradicated (with minor structural enhancements to the base/legs if I recall) when the resort re-opened in 2001 and there was regular pro-active treatment until March of 2005. If the preservationists get involved, there is an even bigger picture illustrated in the systematic destruction of the original exterior which was (also) painstakingly restored. AND, the operators are changing the rooms as well.

The City of Palm Springs had to sign-off on the exterior when the resort was under renovation. While that is not about the roof specifically, the City of Palm Springs would probably make an effort to advocate restoration--a point of some leverage.

Unfortunately, while PSModCom played a HUGE role in influencing the decision to restore the resort, the tropics has been (and remains) the poor step-child of the modern movement in Palm Springs. On all appropriate levels, PSModComm absolutely has the resources to pursue this, in addition to the PS Preservation Foundation, but whether it is seen as worthwhile to the somewhat PS elite modernist movement remains to be proven. Don't forget, there is also the Historical Site Preservation Board as well. Resources are here, they just need to be engaged.

Ultimately, everyone had better pray there is some form of insurance to cover this. Otherwise, the "owners" will absolutely tell everyone......well, they won't spend $ and they don't care.

Thank you Casey for your valuable input. If anybody, you have the insight here, after spending your blood, sweat and tears (and own money!) on restoring and running the place in the early years of the Tiki revival. I am talking to Modcom Pete about this. They need to get an experienced contractor out there that looks at the damage and proposes solid solutions to the operators on how to keep the structure.

MY naive proposal would be: Get a big crane that lifts it, they slip temporary supports under it to set it down on, fix it from underneath, and then set it down on the new supports....Voila!

On 2011-05-23 08:32, Tangaroa-Ru wrote:
Speaking as an architect/contractor's daughter... Whether or not this can be saved will depend on the extent of the termite/wood rot damage to this structure. If it has extensive damage, the Palm Springs building inspectors might not allow it to be saved. If it's just the lower support beams that are damaged (and being closest to the ground - moisture/termites- they might be), it might be possible to cut those parts off, and create new cement supports underneath. I think the ceiling tiles are too heavy for this structure, California outlawed wood shake roof shingles years ago and everyone who had to re-roof had to use asphalt or other roofing materials to replace. However, something lighter and up-to-code is probably available. Last hopeful possibility: IF the structure has to be demolished (due to damage, etc.), a new replica of this could be built, IF the A-frame design passes current building code standards. And that's where the Palm Springs Preservation Society and Palm Springs Modern could step in and help make this possible. http://www.pspreservationfoundation.org/
http://psmodcom.org/

[ Edited by: Tangaroa-Ru 2011-05-23 08:32 ]

I would imagine that some sort of composite/tar paper roof shingles would be much lighter and work ok for this. Being that it's only technically a "carport"and not a living structure, perhaps the codes are less strict than if it were an actual dwelling ?

Not to sell you short Jim . I was only saying that Cindy heard a bunch of noise from beyond after you finished playing . You guys were incredible . Im just saying that we didnt know exactly when it really fell because we were next door watching you guys jam .
As far as the structure goes I believe it has to be fully torn down to reconstruct . These are not Lego's where you just unsnap something and replace it . 30 years of Union construction under my belt bets that no inspector will ever sign off the integrity of that structure after it fell the few feet to the ground . If it cracked that tiki at the top in half then the joints at the top separated enough to do it which means it all has to be retrofited and rebraced to the original angles . You have to remove all that weight to get that roof square to the world again . Then you can add the roofing and such . I hope it is redone but its not a half day job .

On 2011-05-23 11:35, TIKI-RAY wrote:
Not to sell you short Jim . I was only saying that Cindy heard a bunch of noise from beyond after you finished playing . You guys were incredible . Im just saying that we didnt know exactly when it really fell because we were next door watching you guys jam .
As far as the structure goes I believe it has to be fully torn down to reconstruct . These are not Lego's where you just unsnap something and replace it . 30 years of Union construction under my belt bets that no inspector will ever sign off the integrity of that structure after it fell the few feet to the ground . If it cracked that tiki at the top in half then the joints at the top separated enough to do it which means it all has to be retrofited and rebraced to the original angles . You have to remove all that weight to get that roof square to the world again . Then you can add the roofing and such . I hope it is redone but its not a half day job .

Actually, I heard that it happened earlier in the day. Maybe the sound Cindy heard was someone passing out and falling down drunk. :)

Nonetheless, I will still use it for folklore. :)

On 2011-05-23 11:35, TIKI-RAY wrote:
As far as the structure goes I believe it has to be fully torn down to reconstruct . These are not Lego's where you just unsnap something and replace it . 30 years of Union construction under my belt bets that no inspector will ever sign off the integrity of that structure after it fell the few feet to the ground . If it cracked that tiki at the top in half then the joints at the top separated enough to do it which means it all has to be retrofited and rebraced to the original angles . You have to remove all that weight to get that roof square to the world again . Then you can add the roofing and such . I hope it is redone but its not a half day job .

I kind of thought so... but if it would be regarded as a HISTORIC structure, they COULD do it. I mean they put complete Victorian houses up on blocks, and lift them on truck beds and drive them to new sites where they set them on new foundations, why not with some lil A-frame? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Tiki mask had split years ago...

On 2011-05-23 11:06, bigbrotiki wrote:
MY naive proposal would be: Get a big crane that lifts it, they slip temporary supports under it to set it down on, fix it from underneath, and then set it down on the new supports....Voila!

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2011-05-23 11:55 ]

......maybe someone can relocate it to Slab City! :wink:

I think the band did it......ROCK! I hope they can either repair this landmark piece of art or at least build it again. Don't let these things leave!!!!

As a former contractor and inspector I believe the structure can be raised and repaired. As Bigbro noted about houses, I have been involved with whole buildings being moved that were much heavier than this little structure. The engineering on this open structure is different and moving & repair will not be the same a house. The inspector and engineers might have the final word, but money will also. Tiki-Ray is right that to do it properly, it should be taken apart. Anything can be done......for a price.

I walked my friend through there on Friday and noticed the one support (front right) bowed, and what appeared to be dry-rot and or termite damage but did not get a picture. Preventative maintenance is always cheaper than replacement.

Tikiyaki did rock!

On 2011-05-23 08:49, TIKI-RAY wrote:
That structure is too big to lift up and add supports. It will have to come down completely to rebuild to the original form or any other way they design. But just to clear up some details, we are not sure when it happened. But Cindy said that right after Tikiyaki finished their set she heard a large crack and then a Boom sound in the distance. We could only assume that it was the sound of the Caliente structure. Tikiyaki played a great set but its not confirmed that they brought dowm the Caliente roof. It makes a great story because of their anti tiki people attitude and then the Kharma rumors started flowing. Anyways we hope they find the funds to restore it.

Karma is strong. Tiki gods may not like being dissed, and let everyone know as much.

Tikiyaki, I always thought the expression was "raise the roof", as in "The Tikiyaki Orchestra was so good, they raised the roof."

I guess we need a new catch-phrase now.

I don't get this repeated harping on the "owners' bad karma" thing, kids: The Tropics as an architectural icon of Tiki culture IS not the owner, current or past. It however is/was one of the last great Tiki A-frames standing. If it is brought to its knees, and not restored but dismantled, it is WE who loose, not the owner (who never cared much for the Tiki theme).

"Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Tiki mask had split years ago... "

That is correct. While more split than ever before, it was that way more than ten years ago.

On 2011-05-23 16:47, CaseyJPS wrote:
"Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Tiki mask had split years ago... "

That is correct. While more split than ever before, it was that way more than ten years ago.

OK, the first offering for the restoration is for a TC carver providing a new Tiki mask donation for the reconstructed A-Frame.

Maybe we could do a Amish raising the barn kind of effort to restore the A-Frame.

Otto also sent this out today for a contact to the Tropics

...this puts it in serious risk of demolition... I feel that some effort is needed from us all to convince the owners to restore it, as oppose to just knocking it down. ... it's an icon worth taking the effort to save.

...here is the contact info for the Tropics, should anyone decide to write and tell them they care enough and would like to see it repaired.....Telling them how much you like staying there and are looking forward to staying there again soon would help too, since it seems that money talks when it comes to the current "management".

http://www.calientetropics.com/contact-us.php

760-327-1391
888.277.0999

[email protected]

I emailed the Tropics today to vote for restoring the A-Frame.

Don't forget to vote early and often.

DC

There are a lot of people here on tiki central in what I would consider the upper income bracket (sadly, I ain't one of 'em!) but surely there must be someone here with the money and wherewithal to simply buy the place and make it a tiki establishment. I for one, would always stay there is it was run by someone here. Also, it would be nice to have a permanent place for Tiki events in the desert. If Queen Kamehameha can do it with mojave oasis...someone else could do the same thing. At least then you could throw a party without worrying about the cops coming and hauling the entire Tikiyaki Orchestra away (although, that Marty Lush probably SHOULD be in jail!)

I bet you could get a good deal on it, seeing that the place is totally falling apart now.

On 2011-05-23 16:33, bigbrotiki wrote:
I don't get this repeated harping on the "owners' bad karma" thing, kids: The Tropics as an architectural icon of Tiki culture IS not the owner, current or past. It however is/was one of the last great Tiki A-frames standing. If it is brought to its knees, and not restored but dismantled, it is WE who loose, not the owner (who never cared much for the Tiki theme).

I agree, as per my first post.
I think alot of people are pissed that Tiki Caliente was basically dissed and dismissed from the Tropics....as we all love the place.
But yea, the iconic value far exceeds the bad owners' crappy treatment of the community. So, save it I say.

On 2011-05-23 18:32, tikiyaki wrote:
I think alot of people are pissed that Tiki Caliente was basically dissed and dismissed from the Tropics....as we all love the place.

And how about the ORIGINAL, the Tiki Oasis? There was no other Tiki fest then...

Check out the elaborate entertainment program....Whooaa! :wink:

Sweet memories with good friends

This was the beginning of many years of successful Tropics Oasis events - until Otto had enough of being relegated to the hottest months, and not getting any favors for all the business generated - the same reasons why Rory left.

And what about the persons responsible for the full scale Tiki-sensitive renovation of the place, Casey and his partner: Squeezed out of the business after all their hard work and hard cash spent on the place.

And then the last chapter, the renovation of the restaurant and bar...I don't even wanna know what went on there!

Believe me, there's no love lost here, but: Since I lead my first Lounge Bus Tour group through this place in 1994, it has been an amazing example of the style, for a long time, something to proudly refer to as the best Tiki Motel in existence - in spite of all the behind-the-scenes frustrations. And now that status might be threatened, and that is not a good thing.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2011-05-24 08:14 ]

On 2011-05-23 18:10, lucas vigor wrote:
There are a lot of people here on tiki central in what I would consider the upper income bracket (sadly, I ain't one of 'em!) but surely there must be someone here with the money and wherewithal to simply buy the place and make it a tiki establishment. I for one, would always stay there is it was run by someone here. Also, it would be nice to have a permanent place for Tiki events in the desert. If Queen Kamehameha can do it with mojave oasis...someone else could do the same thing. At least then you could throw a party without worrying about the cops coming and hauling the entire Tikiyaki Orchestra away (although, that Marty Lush probably SHOULD be in jail!)

I bet you could get a good deal on it, seeing that the place is totally falling apart now.

SHAG?

jeeeeeeeezzzzzzz. what a bunch of young looking TCers! i need shots from TO 1 and 2 asap if anyone can send them to me...

Money money money.. mooooooooney..... Don Trump? hoping for the best on this saving history thing.

isn't there a gorilla in that shot????

WIthout the arch, the South Seas aspect of the entire motel is lost, as the facades of the court are but echoes of the arch. This is a classic example of why I disagree with the idea that business people should run the country; here's a tiki landmark in a fairly good hotel market (one that has an annual draw, a reason for being) and the owners not only don't like the look of their hotel, they chase away business the structure draws. What sort of businessperson rejects business that comes to him, by the group, at their own volition; no advertising money expended?

Still, presuming the arch has to go--for a variety of reasons--it doesn't look like something that couldn't be reconstructed properly, with minimal changes to its appearance.

But the fact that the local modern preservation society isn't quite on board points to a different problem--one environmentalists and other preservationists face: While we can't save everything, too often we get into a rut of what has to be saved: Victorians over mid-century ranch houses; churches and banks over googie style diners and coffee shops; whales, otters, lions-tigers and bears, over plankton and snail darters, and of course--sailing ships over motor ships--like the soon to be dismantled, last of its kind Wapama steam schooner. We somehow need to get a more comprehensive preservation system that protects a cross section of time, not just the grandest specimens, or those by the most famous architects.

We have a greater diversity of building materials, at lower cost, than at any point in history, but we're not using it to build Paris or Rome, or even Empire State Buildings or Golden Gate Bridges, it's almost always something more like Tracy or Palmdale. And while we've lost the knack of the Grand or the Spectacular, we've don't even try for whimsy--the Giant Oranges, Brown Derbies, or Mai Kai's, making the rebuild of this arch all the more important.

This A Frame salutes any effort to save any A Frame, especially one which is a TIKI Porte Cochere of great architectural and historical significance to the City of Palm Springs. I'm betting Elvis drove through it, top down, on the way to the pool and thought it was pretty cool.

Although it wasn't going to last forever and thank god no one was hurt, maybe that crack which was heard was just the wake-up call the owner needed.

If you rebuild it...they will come. At least to take pictures.

Ack! We're booked to stay at the Caliente Tropics in about a week and half for 2 nights.

The primary reason we are/were staying was for the Tiki Architecture here. (I wasn't aware of the disdain the owners have for Tiki. Boo.)

Should we look elsewhere in PS for a couple of nights? Suggestions?

Scott

Here's a few more shots for the mix, starting in the back and moving to the front...

On 2011-05-24 07:05, Piratiki wrote:
Ack! We're booked to stay at the Caliente Tropics in about a week and half for 2 nights.

The primary reason we are/were staying was for the Tiki Architecture here. (I wasn't aware of the disdain the owners have for Tiki. Boo.)

Should we look elsewhere in PS for a couple of nights? Suggestions?

Scott

"Distain" might be harsh. C'mon they own/run a Tiki motel. :). My understanding is they didn't want to accomodate a large event until the SLOW season. Anyway NOW might be the best time to go out of your way to stay there. Just make sure to remind them you're there for the TIKI.

Someone mentioned insurance. If there's a "guaranteed replacement" rider or clause, then they should be able to rebuild the A-frame in it's original dimensions and form, right?
Also, from the looks of the picture I took below, the left side is/was showing stress as well.

And notice the separation on the right side of center and in the supports...

With a good architect and a quality (and I stress QUALITY) contractor, a new A-frame could be built to last another 50 years!

And those wishing to rally behind this even though the "karma" has not been there lately should look to other tiki temples that are still existing today for our enjoyment and stop bashing them! Walk the walk not just the talk.

JMHO!

http://www.DonTheBeachcomber.com

"Marriage, Mortgages and Mai-Tai's...Whatta life!"

[ Edited by: SoccerTiki 2011-05-24 07:50 ]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Chris.
And what a shame it would be to lose another example of amazing midcentury tiki architecture.

On 2011-05-24 07:29, JOHN-O wrote:

On 2011-05-24 07:05, Piratiki wrote:
Ack! We're booked to stay at the Caliente Tropics in about a week and half for 2 nights.

The primary reason we are/were staying was for the Tiki Architecture here. (I wasn't aware of the disdain the owners have for Tiki. Boo.)

Should we look elsewhere in PS for a couple of nights? Suggestions?

Scott

"Disdain" might be harsh. C'mon they own/run a Tiki motel. :). My understanding is they didn't want to accomodate a large event until the SLOW season. Anyway NOW might be the best time to go out of your way to stay there. Just make sure to remind them you're there for the TIKI.

Good differentiation, John-O. Can we really judge the owner of a business if he does not bend over backwards for a once-a-year event? The fact remains that the Tiki community does not carry enough weight for any large business, Motel OR restaurant, to sustain itself all year around.

That said, it is totally understandable that an event operator, after having proven the economic validity of his event several times and still not getting appropriate service, chooses to go somewhere else. And I hear the new Motel owners offered just the kind of hospitality and gratitude that one COULD be shown - that is wonderful!

I would not call it disdain, I would call it indifference. In this case though, the indifference is such that it gets close to willful indifference. :)

And the same indifference will ultimately affect the outcome of the A-frame salvage: If it is economically feasible, and covered by insurance, OR if the owner is concerned about the loss of re-sale value (a possible argument?) it will get done - it will not be saved because of any love for mid-century architecture.

On 2011-05-24 09:13, bigbrotiki wrote:
it will not be saved because of any love for mid-century architecture.

Given that Palm Springs is the true remaining Mecca for this type of Architecture, and that aesthetic is becoming more a part of the allure of Palm Springs for it's tourism, not only is that sad, but a bit ignorant.

Hopefully, the insurance covers it, and we're all worrying for nothing.

Remember too, people who are not necessarily die hard tiki nerds like us, still are attracted to the tiki "theme"as it were, just for the kitsch factor,and because it does illicit a real "tropical/vacation/relaxation"vibe that you just won't get at a boring old Hilton or Motel 6. It's different, unique. Hopefully the owners realize that and feel that being unique has market value too.