Beyond Tiki, Bilge, and Test / Bilge
The "Just Because It's From Hawaii, Doesn't Mean It's Tiki" Thread
J
JOHN-O
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Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:06 PM
Case in point... In the mid-1970's the local band Kalapana had an R&B Lite hit "The Hurt". Good easy listening BUT NOT TIKI. Also around that time, this piece of attire replaced the classic Aloha Shirt as a popular Hawaiian memento... NOT TIKI !! To be continued... [ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-09-14 01:43 ] |
B
bigtikidude
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:14 AM
Oh this is gonna be horrible, and great at the same time, Jeff(btd) |
JB
Joe Banks
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:34 AM
Are you implying that cats are not tiki? Disrespectful. |
UB
Unga Bunga
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:46 AM
Ya, they're gonna take off the gloves on this one. |
TM
tiki mick
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:02 AM
I tend to agree that any “hawaiiana” from the mid 70’s on, has little if anything to do with tiki. It was indeed, the Polynesian “floor show” that I first associated with Tiki, and still do. In my corner of the tiki universe, it is hawaiiana and polynesiana that comes first, followed by exotica and lounge culture/space age/jet age culture. I would agree that most modern Hawaiian stuff is not tiki. Cecelio and Kapono pretty much helped destroy true tiki over there. 70’s soft rock and yacht rock is not tiki. I don’t even consider slack key to be tiki. For me, it HAS to be Hapa haole music. Whatever was playing in the background of the classic brady bunch goes to Hawaii episode is to me, Tiki. Even exotica was not featured in fake Polynesian restaurants of the 50’s and 60’s as much as Hapa Haole was. That much, even Sven agrees on. Flame on. |
BB
Bora Boris
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:04 AM
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CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:16 AM
Seems more like a political statement to me, Boris? |
BB
Bora Boris
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:23 AM
Nope, just a guy from Hawaii who isn't Tiki. |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:55 AM
It would be cool if he put some "Tikis" in the "Oval Office" |
J
JOHN-O
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:58 AM
I've also noticed that some people here tend to lump "local" Hawaiian food into Tiki. I'm talking about items like Spam Musubi; Loco Moco; and the one scoop macaroni, one scoop rice plate lunch. This to me is Tiki Revisionism. Tiki food is rooted in mid-century menus which would have included only faux Chinese food and anything that might have been served at a tourist luau in the 1950's or 1960's. Spam Musubi... NOT TIKI !! |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:17 PM
Since Hawaiian cuisine did not show up on Tiki Bar/Restaurant menus til the 1970's John-O is correct |
J
JONPAUL
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:30 PM
Why do people waste soooo much time trying to define what is NOT Tiki? |
J
JOHN-O
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:59 PM
Wow. Two interesting Tiki revalations this week... The first, the BigBro reads Surf Music event threads. The second, JonPaul tracks Bilge. :) And because the definition of Bilge is "For drunken, waaaay off-topic, time killer or non-informative posts. And Lamprey discussion."... it should be apparent that I'm killing time (all 15 minutes of it, so far) with a "fun, tongue-in-cheek kind of attitude." |
J
JONPAUL
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:27 PM
Alright, alright. I can't argue with that. :wink: |
TM
tiki mick
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:50 PM
I always compare the discussion about what is or what is not tiki, to the types of discussions found in other forums. What you find in those forums is the same you find here: A mixture of newbies, “purists” (Like me) and “big Tent” types who want to include everything in the discussion. So I don’t feel so bad when I say in public that I don’t consider surf or garage rock to be real tiki music. Just because there are some similarities, the whole intent is different. And threads like this one are merely a reaction to the vast amount of non-tiki stuff that creeps in here every week! Whether it be some Ska/Reggae musician who has the balls to call himself “tiki joe” (never mind the fact that there already IS an established artists here with that name) Jimmy Buffett, Party City, or “burning man” type attempts to link tiki with the very hippy culture that contributed to it’s demise (That’s the one that always gets me). |
FM
Fiji Mermaid
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:59 PM
At the risk of starting a fight, of all the mid-century Polynesian and exotica records I have, I will not buy Don Ho, because his music just doesn't feel tiki. |
KBT3
King Bushwich the 33rd
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:22 PM
Now, now, just because something is not tiki does not make it bad, it is just not tiki. Take a look at Yvonne Elliman. She is a lovely talented Hawaiian lady but she is not tiki. She was a backup singer in Eric Clapton's band which give her lots of credibility to many people but she is not tiki. Well, OK, she was in the band when Mr. Clapton was not at the height of his artistic output but that still was a great job to have but she is still not tiki. She was Mary in Jesus Christ Superstar, a very tacky musical which I enjoyed in a contradictory ironic way but she is still not tiki. She came from Hawaii, she is not tiki but we can still like and respect her. Well, maybe the phase of her career where she was working with tbe Bee Gees...don't know. |
BB
Bruddah Bear
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:33 PM
I'm with Lucas on the Hapa Haole music. I've always enjoyed it, and although I love exotica, I prefer the decidedly Polynesian/Oceanic music and drums that point to the South Pacific Islands rather than Exotica's more scattered Oceania/Orient/Africa/Middle East/Latin America sounds. My "music to put me in a Tiki mood" playlist has more Hapa Haole than Exotica, more combined selections from acts like Alfred Aholo Apaka, Andy Iona, Sol Hoopi, Nat Mara, Danny Kalauawa Stewart & his Islanders, Felix Mendelssohn & His Hawaiian Serenaders, Harry Owens & his Royal Hawaiians, Poly & his Hawaiian Ensemble, All Star Hawaiian Band, etc. than I do of the Exotica trifecta of BD&L. But I still like Surf Music, Slack Key, and even some quirky non-Hawaiiana/Tiki acts (that most folks wouldn't consider Tiki either) who did Polynesian songs too (Sons of the Pioneers' "Blue Hawaii" and Benny Carter's "Moon of Manakoora" for a couple of examples). Add to that, not all modern Polynesian music is the same, nor should it be considered Tiki just because it's from Hawaii. Some of the acts are like a modern version of some of the soft rock groups of the 70s, not very Tiki. The one type of Hawaiian music that I just can't take much of at all is the current trend of Hawaiian Reggae, or "Jawaiian" as my cousin calls it. Yuck. Sounds just like the stuff out of the Caribbean, and we all know how hardcore tikiphiles feel about Caribbean music in their Tiki. Hapa Haole Über Alles! Bear |
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bigtikidude
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Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:07 PM
"Hapa Haole Über Alles!" Wow!!, Jeff(btd) |
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JOHN-O
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 12:08 PM
Sorry, beer is not (nor will it ever be) Tiki. This is especially true if you subscribe to the belief that Tiki is part of space-age bachelor-pad cocktail culture. Sure you're allowed to tip back and enjoy a brewski inside the Tiki bar (I certainly have), but that's still no more Tiki than if you enjoying a Margarita or a Red Bull & Vodka. And It doesn't matter if that beer is a finely crafted microbrew, a PBR, or a brand that screams "Hawaii". Primo beer... NOT TIKI !! :D |
J
JOHN-O
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 12:30 PM
Puka Shells. They're from Hawaii, right ? So should Puka Shell necklaces be considered Tiki ?? I'm going to have to say NO... |
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bigtikidude
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 1:18 PM
I agree with you, but..... Jeff(btd) |
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naugatiki
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:31 PM
Don’t be too quick to discount Primo Beer, I’ve been tempted several times to start a “Show us your Primo Beer collectibles” tread. This brew has been around forever and during the heyday of Poly pop Primo embraced the culture with some fine examples of “Primo Tiki” memorabilia that would be welcome in most tiki bars such as these and let’s not forget the $8888.88 map of the Hawaiian chain that I would put up next to an August Holland print in a second. I hope he relists it. |
J
JOHN-O
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:01 PM
Well... Based on naugatiki's above post, I'll give you a Tiki pass on it this one time. :) |
J
JOHN-O
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:19 PM
Tom Lopaka vs. Steve Mcgarrett vs. Magnum PI… Que es mas Tiki ?? |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:48 PM
"Hawaiian Eye" of course. |
J
JOHN-O
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Sun, Sep 18, 2011 8:18 AM
You got it Chuckster, if any TV show could claim to be Tiki it was "Hawaiian Eye". Look there's even a Tiki… :) It's interesting that the show's run paralleled the peak Tiki years of 1958-1963. Also the fact that it was filmed primarily on Hollywood sets made it as authentically inauthentic as mainland Tiki-style. But… since this is a thread that points out that being from Hawaii doesn't automatically make you Tiki, let's consider Hawaii Five-0. That series was filmed entirely on location there. OK, I know I'm probably in the minority here but IMHO, Hawaii Five-O is NOT "Tiki". Its plot lines of communist spies, crime syndicates, and urban crime more typical to cities like Chicago, runs completely contrary to Tiki's idealized vision of exotic paradise. And a "square John" like Steve McGarrett, you'd never catch him inside a Tiki bar unless he was shutting it down due to liquor license violations. Actually in many ways, I think Magnum P.I. is much closer in spirit to Tiki's sense of fun, but it did run during the bad old devolution days of the 1980's (in other words, NOTHING from the 80's can be considered Tiki, Ha Ha). Sorry Steve McGarrett and Thomas Magnum, the closest you guys ever got to being Tiki was to (inappropriately) be turned into Tiki mugs…
[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-09-18 09:16 ] |
J
JOHN-O
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Sun, Sep 18, 2011 8:42 AM
OK, here's another controversial one… Should Don Ho be considered Tiki ?? Personally, I do because to me, he reinforces the Lounge culture aspect of Tiki (even if he bookends its final days). He's our very own Poly-Pop Frank Sinatra (well, Dean Martin anyway). I however get the impression that people here discount him solely because they dislike his schmaltzy style of singing. So what do others think about Don Ho. .. Tiki or not Tiki ?? |
TSW
The Sperm Whale
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Sun, Sep 18, 2011 9:16 AM
Primo Beer = Not Tiki Just depends. Ah fuck it ... Beer is not Tiki. Newbee's need to grab a clue and I for one am sick of all goofballing around on TC (unless on Bilge) And I know I used to mess around waay too much back in the good ole days of TC. I am and was here for the info and the great vintage eye candy. Goofing around is for events, Bilge and Facebook!! Pot stirring is really lame!! (unless in Bilge) |
T
TikiTomD
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Sun, Sep 18, 2011 9:19 AM
JOHN-O, I'm not here to make the case that Don Ho was or was not tiki, but Pat and I did have an opportunity to listen to him a decade or so ago in an intimate dinner club setting in Waikiki. At the time, we both thought his vocal qualities shared much in common with Sinatra, deep and romantic. That was especially so when he sang Kui Lee's "I'll Remember You." It was a great evening, and, after the show, Don Ho individually engaged every attendee in greeting and thanks, and to make a bit of small talk. He was fun to be with, a charming and consummate entertainer. The man was much more than the "Tiny Bubbles" that was his signature tune. -Tom [ Edited by: TikiTomD 2011-09-18 09:21 ] |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Sun, Sep 18, 2011 11:36 AM
Hey Spermy, Its OK to have fun, That was the number one reason people went to a Tiki Bar/Supper club Tiki is FUN! |
J
JOHN-O
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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 8:35 PM
Tiki or Not Tiki ??... Fundraisers aside, is this Hawaiian cultural concept responsible for the "it's all good" malaise we've been experiencing on TC. The ancient Hawaiians were all about Ohana (and Aloha) and look where it got them. :D |
BB
Bora Boris
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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 8:40 PM
I'm going to disagree and here's one of my favorite posts to prove my point. Just ask Captain Cook. |
J
JOHN-O
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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 8:50 PM
Ha !! That will be the next T-shirt I'll have HB Tiki make for me. |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 11:09 PM
I LIKE IT! |
S
SuperEight
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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 11:21 PM
Ahem, I am not here to call any of you haoles, but I do have to make a correction. Its "one scoop macaroni" and "TWO scoop rice" (with the s dropped from the word scoop intentionally according to proper Hawaiian Pidgin). Stay local my bruddahs! |
S
SuperEight
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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 11:42 PM
This is bringing back not so fond memories of an early, innocent question I had that turned into a shit storm fight I had nothing to do with. I don't remember another thread being locked down by Hanford since then. Ah, remember when we were young and so passionate in our beliefs? http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31087&forum=1 |
G
GROG
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 8:10 AM
A lot of these things may not be "tiki" as they apply to the old school tiki style, but work in the new tiki revival. Example---Primo beer, sold at the Tonga Hut The oldest Tiki bar in LA ( it's probably sold at purple Orchid, too). Primo beer=Tiki. Yes, John-O is just trouble maker and is stirring the pot. Is John-O tiki? Open for discussion... |
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bigtikidude
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 2:35 PM
Grog, oh, now who's stirrin' the pot? p.s. This if for Lucas, |
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GROG
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 7:07 PM
It's true. Caveman predate Tiki, so John-O is more Tiki than GROG. But, GROG probably own more Tiki mugs and Tiki crap than John-O. And for Lucas, GROG have more Hapahaole music than Surf music in GROG' tiki room, but GROG have more Exotica than Hapahaole. But this not about GROG, this about that trouble-making John-O. :D |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 7:24 PM
You are kidding Ernie, Right? :P |
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bigtikidude
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 10:17 PM
put the dunce hat on him too. |
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GROG
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 11:34 PM
WTF is your problem? [ Edited by: GROG 2011-09-20 23:45 ] |
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bigtikidude
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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 11:54 PM
It's a joke buddy, maybe a bad one, and not funny. |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:08 AM
Now kids we all like each other now, who wants pudding! |
BB
Bruddah Bear
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Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:06 AM
Pudding? I want pudding, I'll take chocolate... But only if it's real pudding, and not a Type 6.5 on the BSC. Bear |
CTIT
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:35 PM
Is Hawaiian Pudding Tiki? Bear, We only got the homemade kind around here. |
TT
Trailerpark Tiki
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Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:29 PM
See what happens when you stir the pot! Now Grog pissed. Don't piss off Grog because Grog working on Monkeyfez mugs (say that 10 times fast). Grog need good artist vibe to complete mugs. I don't know why I'm talking like a caveman?? I can only say what is tiki to me. Having grown up in Hawaii in the 60's and 70's, my memories guide my tiki tastes. As John-O knows, I'm not a purist. Hell, I don't even live in a trailerpark. Reggae/Hawaiian=Hell no not Tiki. |