Why do we classify mugs from Chinese restaurants as Tiki?

First, I have my fair share of mugs and vessels from a range of Chinese restaurants in my collection. However, I keep them collected together in their own section of my Tiki Lounge. I appreciate them and enjoy them. But I have often wondered why we consider them (or do we?) as Tiki?

I understand the ones that cross over and are used in Tiki establishments, such as the Fu Manchu (in its various incarnations), but what about the rest?

Do you consider them Tiki? If so, what is your reasoning? If not, do you collect them still like I do?

OK, for one, none of those mugs from Benihana.

I mean, yeah, Buddha’s cool, and who can say no to Maneki-neko. But they're still just not tiki in any way, shape or form.

Well chances are the places had Tiki Décor and the drinks were Tropical
in nature, so I would say "Tiki"

Yeah I gotta go with that. Not all mugs from Chines/Asian restaurants are Tiki. However, I do know that a lot of tiki mug collectors also have at least a few Benihana Buddha mugs in their collection as well.

In the 50's and 60's many Chinese restaurants were cashing in on the Tiki craze by offering drinks in tiki mugs (that patrons could take home). Even today, some of the older Chinese restaurants offer "tiki drinks" in tiki-ish mugs.

The Hong Kong Inn, in Ventura (which just recently closed) offered many drinks in tiki mugs and volcano bowls (on fire), ceramic clam shells, even hallowed out pineapples. There is also an old school Chinese restaurant in San Diego that I have yet to go to, but I'm told it also has drinks in tiki mugs.

Since Tiki restaurants we're mainly serving Cantonese food, I think there was a sense of "Since they're serving our food, we'll serve their drinks." Exotic being exotic to the average schmo it probably didn't matter that much. However was the Dr. Funk or any of his aliases sold in the Dr. Funk or Fu Manchu mug at any of the major Tiki Restaurants?

I just wrote a whole spiel on how since the birth of Poly pop Don and Vic offered mainly Chinese food cooked by Chinese Chefs, and how with the mid-century wave of Tiki temples, Chinese cooks, servers and bartenders rose up in the ranks, only to then by the mid-60s (the waning of the trend) take over the business when the original owners wanted to retire. Or they had saved enough money to open their own restaurant, and that, most of all, as Boris mentioned, for originally Chinese restaurants the switch to "Polynesian" was an easy one...

Well, perhaps as an omen that I should not post his, the whole damn page just froze on me! But I don't care, I am not superstitious, so now you are merely getting a truncated version of the first part of my response, and the salvaged second part which I managed to save, below:

P.S.: Of course, there are exceptions to what I am saying above, like Lee's Islander, and some of Hop Luey's places, but they do not contradict the general historic facts.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2012-12-17 11:09 ]

On 2012-12-17 09:34, Bora Boris wrote:
However was the Dr. Funk or any of his aliases sold in the Dr. Funk or Fu Manchu mug at any of the major Tiki Restaurants?

Boris,

Dr. Sam Tee at the Hawaiian Village, Tampa, for one.

On 2012-12-17 11:02, bigbrotiki wrote:
P.S.: Of course, there are exceptions to what I am saying above, like Lee's Islander, and some of Hop Luey's places, but they do not contradict the general historic facts.

Bibgbro,

I agree with most of your thoughts, although there were few more great exceptions, the Luau Hut being a favorite!

DC

I think I misunderstood the question (Although I love this thread) The argument about mugs if it's clearly not a Tiki or has a Tiki connection like a Panda Bear or a Benihana mug has been discussed before but I will now call that the Piggy Bank Syndrome, if it's a coin bank shaped like a pig sure it's a piggy bank but if it's shaped like an elephant it will still be called a piggy bank*. So if it's a mug for cocktails shaped like a Tiki or a mug shaped like a Ninja or Joe Strummer, it'll be described by some as a Tiki mug. I can live with that, it gets even blurrier though when you bring the Trader Vic's Hawaiian mugs into the picture like the jeans mug but I still like em.

*Hopefully there are piggy bank collectors out there that are driven nuts when this happens.

Great...now I want a tiki mug shaped like an elephant piggy bank.

On 2012-12-17 13:36, Bora Boris wrote:
So if it's a mug for cocktails shaped like a Tiki or a mug shaped like a Ninja or Joe Strummer, it'll be described by some as a Tiki mug. I can live with that...

I can't :)

How about "Ninja Mug" and "Joe Strummer Mug" instead? Most of the time, the "Tiki" description used by the above "some" has not evolved out of any conscious knowledge of the characteristics of the Tiki genre, but from internalizing too many of the false claims wielded around liberally by collector-preying e-bay sellers

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2012-12-17 16:03 ]

Yes!

Ditto....

I had such a blast on John-o's Hong Kong Inn bus trip that I had to get up there and snag some memorabilia when I heard that they were closing. I bought a couple of dbl old fashions and Hi-balls that had a chinese motif. Not tiki. Also picked up a "scorpion bowl" ( heavy brown glaze-3 tiki figures holding up the bowl) Technically tiki I guess but I don't consider it as tiki as for example, the Goof or Mr. Bali Hai mugs that I bought at the Bali Hai in San Diego. However, the bowl was signed by both Jimmy and Tommy Kwan and I'll treasure it as a memento that will remind me of the great time I had with my fellow Tikiphiles on the ride up to and at the HKI. Wish I could remember where I posted the pic of that bowl.
Cheers

I believe this is your bowl. :)

Thanks Coolman!

I used to count the Benihana's mugs as Tiki mugs, but that was because I bought a couple at a rummage sale in either 1984 or 1985, and have kept them amoungst my crap all these years. They came in handy when I was a newbie in the tiki scene a few years ago. I would try to impress my new tiki friends by saying that I've been a mug collector for decades. Most people were really impressed, because I found most started collecting in about 2004-5, a full twenty years after I started mug "collecting". Truth is, in 2005, I knew so little about tiki, I thought it was spelled "tikki." The liberal application of the Tiki handle to those mugs helped establish my credibility, at a time when I had truly earned little of it.
The declassification of those mugs as Tiki came about rather recently to me. I was going through some old stuff I had from my childhood, when I came across some postcards that I got in Chicago in 1978. One of the post cards was of an Easter Island Kava Kava man. This predated my original Benehana's "tiki mugs" and added another six years to my tiki collecting timeline. So, it was no longer necessary to use the Asian guy mugs to establish my tiki guy timeline, I had my postcard to do that for me.

I can honestly claim that I've been collecting tiki stuff for over 85% of my life!
Buzzy Out!

You know I never considered the Benihani mugs in my post as I don't consider them tiki. I find that when I typically get a tiki mug as a gift, it's usually one of those and I feel guilt in having to display it in some way. As I rearrange mugs, they end up in the back behind other mugs. :)

The ones that I was thinking about were the ones that were from The Mandarin (SF), Kings Island Fog Cutter, Imperial Palace, Jade East Buddha mug (and the others like it), both varieties of the Holiday Inn/Chinatown mugs shaped like men, and the various Geishas (Hawaiian Cottage, Royal Hawaiian, OMC generics, etc.) to name a few...

To me as a veteran collector, these kind of mugs are the ones that are still around now at flea markets and yard sales, while real Tiki stuff has become scarce, so folks just WANT them to be Tiki mugs so bad that they become it.

And Buzzy:
In your case, it is entirely un-important WHEN exactly you were infected by Tiki fever. With your depth of understanding, passion and productivity in the Tiki genre you could have come aboard yesterday and still would represent a veritable certified Tikiphile!

Benihana first opened in America in 1964 serving "Teppan-Yaki" style food
and while they did have a couple of tropical drinks on the menu this was clearly
not a Tiki bar or restaurant, so file this under (Not Tiki)

Many Chinese restaurants in the 50s & 60s had Tropical & Hawaiian decor & a full tropical drink menu
many of these also served drinks in mugs, and unless you where in a city with a Trader Vic's or
Don the Beachcomber Tiki palace etc. it was their only exposure to a Tiki style Restaurant
in much of the United States, so file under (This is Tiki)

On 2012-12-18 13:39, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Many Chinese restaurants in the 50s & 60s had Tropical & Hawaiian decor & a full tropical drink menu
many of these also served drinks in mugs, and unless you where in a city with a Trader Vic's or
Don the Beachcomber Tiki palace etc. it was their only exposure to a Tiki style Restaurant
in much of the United States, so file under (This is Tiki)

If said Chinese eateries had a Polynesian name and decor, sure - just differentiate them as perhaps not the prime example of the genre. But purely Chinese restaurants that merely served Tiki drinks and had a couple of Orchids lamps under the ceiling do not simply become "Tiki" because of a deficiency of real Tiki temples in the area - just like Buddha mugs don't become Tiki mugs because they are the only thing left on a flea market seller's table :)

because of a deficiency of real Tiki temples in the area -

So what does it take to be "real tiki".....?

I'm asking hypothetical really...

It just seems to me that the last 15 years, an idea of what "Tiki" is or isn't, has been pushed and preached by some people. Yet very few places, and especially the orginal places fit that "idea".

The two places that most people would consider the "real" tiki...don the beachcombers and Trader Vics... Both men stated to be influenced by their travels to the islands...which included cuba, jamaica and the caribbean, not just the south pacific.

They severed Asian food, hired chinese cooks, used the words fusion and hybrid to describe their food. They named their drinks to reflect cannibals, navy, snakes and asia.

The dining areas were often heavily nautical themed and one was named after India.. "Black hole of calcutta".

The mugs often had african or asian influence.

The island bars that influenced these men were probably filled with tons of local decor, with foriegn items mixed in. In the 1920's boats took people all over and the trading of goods on small islands took place. So, for example, seeing asian items in a bar in tahiti was probably par for the course.

Does it matter though? If you like chinese mugs or african statues and you want them in your bar..fine. Why are people so worried about "authentic" and "real tiki"? Its obvious the first and biggest "tiki" bars weren't worried about it.

Nobody's grading...there's no prize.... enjoy your tiki space.

hear, hear

Why do people always think that when I am discussing the parameters of the art form that I am trying to take away their fun? Is it some kind of authority hang-up that produces an anti-intellectual knee-jerk reaction of "You can't tell me what I am free to like!!!" ???

I have no intention to do so. But I have defined the genre, and a LOT of people liked the way I did it. But please, everybody is free to do what they want with THEIR definition of it. Just don't expect me to call it it Tiki if I don't see it as such. But luckily you should not care what I think then, right?

OK Eric, I thought you knew, but back to square one:
Don The Beachcomber and Trader Vic were NOT "Tiki" initially, they are the founders of Polynesian Pop. Don's places never really went fully Tiki, but Trader Vic did so majorly beginning in the mid-50s. Their Polynesian Pop concepts formed the backdrop and set the stage for Tiki to star in his own South Seas movie fantasy. Without them, there would be no Tiki, but without Tiki, their environs would have been only half as interesting.

All the jetsam and flotsam they brought together came from the Seven Seas and beyond, yes, and it worked like a complex mosaic to create the illusion of a bohemian harbor hideaway. As one element for example, they introduced those green Chinese ceramic tiles as room dividers - a classic! But that was ONE element - not the whole place. It is all a matter of balance and degree, and yes, that balance can vary to the individual taste of the proprietor. But there is a line where a place leaves the realm of Tiki Bar and becomes something else. Or not?

I believe we are talking about the vintage Polynesian restaurants & Bars
and the mugs from the after mentioned places, Many of these are Chinese restaurants
that offered a tropical atmosphere and cocktails which we refer to as "Classic Tiki"

They are well documented & not open for interpretation if you are referring to classic "Tiki"
I am not talking about today's "home" bars & lounges as you are free do do whatever you like

But classic "Tiki" is a defined style & a look that is pretty much set in stone
and if you are looking to reproduce that in an authentic way then they are certain aesthetic rules
that do apply, which are not open for personal interpretation.

So there! :)

Well yes....and no, regarding your "set in stone", and "reproducing the look in an authentic way"... I DON'T want my stance to be misunderstood as that there is no room for new ideas and embellishment, and that I am demanding a slavish reproduction of what was there. One of the key elements of mid-century Tiki was that it not only inspired so many "imitators", but many of these actually re-interpreted the style in their own manner, and added and creatively embellished it. But that has to be done within the parameters of the genre, it's not a free-for-all... which would eventually make it become like everything else.

I set the rules! :)
now obey!

Uh oh....time for more "Electroshock" gotta go now.

I generally agree with Sven's idea of what tiki is. Actually, I buy into the idea wholeheartedly.....which is why I find it so strange that real tiki hardly exists anymore, and that very few people seem to have a problem with that. I find the greatest dilution of tiki to actually occur in the area of tiki music. What passes for tiki music these days is just a form of rock music with tiki imagery and tiki song titles.
In all other aspects of tiki, many here on this forum get it 100% correct...except for the music. I am pretty sure I disagree with Sven 100% on what tiki music is. It's probably the only thing I would disagree with him on, when it comes to tiki.

One thing I always feel is that tiki is a subset of mid century culture. I also like safari style, asian style, latin style...all done with a mid century flavor style...and of course, I like atomic age/jet age stuff as well, feeling that the sputnik motel is right at home next to the bali hai motor lodge. So I can safely say that a vintage chinese restaurant from the 50's is just as cool as a tiki bar, for different but same reasons.

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2012-12-18 19:59 ]

I stumbled upon Tiki quite by chance. I collected mugs and the related ephemera before I found Tiki Central or Sven's first Book of Tiki. I grew up in a Tiki-devoid locale known as Connecticut, but thankfully moved to California when I was 9. But for some unknown reason, I could determine what was and wasn't Tiki.

Then I found this site and then found out about the BoT and truly agreed with the way that early members on the site and Sven defined the genre. I like the purest aspects of Tiki and do what I can to adhere to vintage Tiki and Polynesiana for my own Tiki Bar-esqe environ. Why? Because I like the idea of something be pure and true to its origins.

Now, back to topic, the mugs I was originally asking about included these (thanks Humuhumu and the contributors from Ooga-Mooga - to pay proper respects). And as Sven had clearly called out, Tiki/Polynesian restaurants set the groundwork for modern Chinese restaurants (for both the good and the bad).:

While this is just a small sampling, I would absolutely love to see other mugs that fall under this sub-genre...I will do my best to add others that I have that aren't on Ooga-Mooga or Tiki Central (at least I haven't uncovered them yet!)

Coolman, This is an interesting and intriguing thread. My tiki lounge and it's contents are in complete disarray right now- I'm finishing up some construction/improvements. I'll post pix of my "Chinese mugs" just as quick as I can sort em out. Again, nice thread.
Cheers
'

I think we can all agree that these mugs, and maybe even the Benihana-style mugs are an off-shoot. Not Tiki, but not unrelated. I have a small section dedicated to these vessels, which are much more common here than real Tiki or Polynesian-themed mugs. The context blurs the lines of what is and isn't Tiki; history, use in classic Tiki establishments, etc. "Tiki mug" has become too much of an umbrella term in the general, eBay-selling, populace. We're not the general populace, and by being a part of this forum we have an obligation to keep it at least somewhat academic.

Sometimes it's because the Chinese restaurant calls their bar a tiki bar.

Such as China Inn in San Diego (Pacific Beach). They use mugs that can be found in tiki and Asian restaurants.

Our Bar:
The Tiki bar at China Inn boasts full bar service including many beer selections as well as wine and spirits. Specialty drinks here are favorites as well. Enjoy Polynesian drinks like the Mai-Tai or the rum, gin and brandy flavored Scorpion. For brave souls, the Suffering Bastard is not to be missed. A popular China Inn specialty is the Volcano, a rum-based drink that is large enough to share with friends and will make your visit here unforgettable.

Fong's Pizza in Des Moines, IA is a Chinese/Italian fusion restaurant and they serve tiki drink's. Their signature mug is definitely Asian in style, but cool. Unfortunately Fong's has been closed since November due to a flood. Look at the their drink prices! Half of what we pay in Los Angeles. fongspizza.com/menu/tiki

Then there is Wang's in San Diego and their Derek Yaniger designed and Tiki Farm produced Fu Manchu. You can buy the mug on the Wang's website. http://www.wangsnorthpark.com

The Good Luck Bar in Los Angeles has an over the top kitschy Oriental theme and it serves tiki drinks in themed ceramic mugs.

-Lori

[ Edited by: tikilongbeach 2012-12-19 09:49 ]

[ Edited by: tikilongbeach 2012-12-19 09:56 ]

[ Edited by: tikilongbeach 2012-12-19 09:59 ]

[ Edited by: tikilongbeach 2012-12-19 10:00 ]

Do I consider them tiki? No, not unless the mug is shaped like a tiki.
I do like the Wang's and Fong's mugs.

Found at a goodwill this evening. There is an interesting thread on T C on the Kuo Wah restaurant.

Even though a few mugs have been posted, it's abundantly clear to me why we collect them. They are friggin' awesome!

Sorry for the large images. I don't have any that are nearly as cool as the previous ones posted...

These two are from the Imperial Palace in San Francisco.

Holiday Inn - Financial District - San Francisco

Hong Kong Bar - Century Plaza Hotel

Kuo Wah - San Francisco

Chiam - Chicago

Here's one from 1981 in a restaurnt called Oriental Terrace that seems to have a tiki wing in it and takes pleasure in warning the danger of the cocktail.

Recently I was contacted by the National Museum of American History with the Smithsonian Institute via my personal thrifting blog with regards to my donating some mugs from The Mandarin to an upcoming exhibit entitled “Sweet and Sour: Chinese Food from Chinatown to Main Street.”

This exhibition tells a history of Chinese food and restaurants across the United States. Cecilia Chiang and her restaurant The Mandarin is an important part of their exhibition, since she ushered in a new era of Chinese food with a particular specialty from northern Chinese cuisine in the 1960s.

Although the exhibit blog has not been updated since August you can still read about the progress of this particular exhibition here: http://blog.americanhistory.si.edu/osaycanyousee/sweet-sour/

I know I have quite a few mugs from Chinese restaurants including all the ones from The Mandarin and by the looks of some of the posts on this thread so do some of you so that is why I posted this on this thread.

I am not sure when the exhibit will open but I do know that along with it a second exhibit will be placed in their traveling museum and made available to schools across the country--kind of like a museum tour bus.

The mugs I donated will appear in both exhibits and include the tall geisha mug and the green bucket.

[ Edited by: SandraDee 2013-10-24 09:47 ]

I'd like to get a mug or two from The Lonely Panda...

That looks like The Original Pantry in LA.

On 2013-10-24 09:44, SandraDee wrote:
Recently I was contacted by the National Museum of American History with the Smithsonian Institute via my personal thrifting blog with regards to my donating some mugs from The Mandarin to an upcoming exhibit entitled “Sweet and Sour: Chinese Food from Chinatown to Main Street.”

This exhibition tells a history of Chinese food and restaurants across the United States. Cecilia Chiang and her restaurant The Mandarin is an important part of their exhibition, since she ushered in a new era of Chinese food with a particular specialty from northern Chinese cuisine in the 1960s.

Although the exhibit blog has not been updated since August you can still read about the progress of this particular exhibition here: http://blog.americanhistory.si.edu/osaycanyousee/sweet-sour/

I know I have quite a few mugs from Chinese restaurants including all the ones from The Mandarin and by the looks of some of the posts on this thread so do some of you so that is why I posted this on this thread.

I am not sure when the exhibit will open but I do know that along with it a second exhibit will be placed in their traveling museum and made available to schools across the country--kind of like a museum tour bus.

The mugs I donated will appear in both exhibits and include the tall geisha mug and the green bucket.

[ Edited by: SandraDee 2013-10-24 09:47 ]

SandraDee, that's pretty cool. I hope the traveling exhibit makes it's way out West.

On 2013-10-24 11:12, tikilongbeach wrote:
SandraDee, that's pretty cool. I hope the traveling exhibit makes it's way out West.

Me too! If they contact me with an update on that I will post it here. From the items they have managed to obtain thus far it looks like it will be a pretty interesting exhibit so I hope I get to see it.

San Francisco has so many old Chinese restaurants and many serve exotic cocktails--it would be cool to learn more about their history.

SD, TLB stole my words. Keep up the coolness!
David
Btw,show the mugs they’re using please.

On 2013-10-24 13:19, nui 'umi 'umi wrote:
SD, TLB stole my words. Keep up the coolness!
David
Btw,show the mugs they’re using please.

:)

I just took these photos Cool Manchu posted of the same mugs I sent to them:

Miss Dee is in great demand... coast to coast.

On 2013-10-24 15:01, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
Miss Dee is in great demand... coast to coast.

And north to south!