Need help renovating home tiki bar!

Hey everyone! I just bought a home tiki bar and I am trying to figure out how to renovate it. It looks like it has been worn out from the sun. I need a cost effective method and some design tips. Right now I am leaning towards making the main poles darker than the paneling on the sides and front. Here are my questions:

1. Would heat treating it with a blowtorch work since the bar is older and is all different shades already?

2. If I cannot heat treat it is sanding and staining my next option? I looked up prices for stainer and it get pricey so I would rather heat treat if possible.

3. Was 400.00 a good deal for this? I need to know if I should try to return it or not.

I found this thread:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=41376&forum=20&57

If I sanded and then used shellac would that work?

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-17 12:10 ]

I found that same bar minus the roof and two poles! Found mine on the side of the street, and had to disassemble it to get it home. its well made and really sturdy, so Id say yes its worth saving. I used varnish remover, cleaned it up and have since used the pieces for another project. if you can get the old varnish off, it should be no problem to re-varnish it and enjoy it for a long time

If you do torch it, let us know how it turns out?

Pete Paul: I do not even think there is varnish left on it. It is pretty worn. I am more concerned about making it look vivid, lively, and colorful again. Wouldn't the varnish happen after sanding and staining to bring out the shine? The plan right now is to use an amber, Red mahogany, or clear stain once sanded then apply a varnish or wax.

Atomic Tiki Punk: Will do. I plan on taking after pictures of course :) I will most likely flame treat it once I sand and stain it.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-17 13:45 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-17 13:49 ]

On 2014-07-17 13:29, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
If you do torch it, let us know how it turns out?

That was a joke, I really "don't" recommend you do that with this old bar
unless you want a bonfire, considering the shape it is in, $400 sounds pretty high
but with some sanding & a refinish it could look sharp again.

Never torch wood after stain or varnish has been applied!
in the words of the Great Cornholio "FIRE,FIRE!"

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-07-17 15:33 ]

I thought stain & varnish are non flammable once dry? & all other tiki bars this size were in the 1000.00 range so i thought it was a decent deal. Idk though now haha

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-17 15:52 ]

Visions of a pile of burned $400 popped into my head when you mentioned torch. Keep us posted as you work on your project, I think sanding and staining it dark would be good, but I am not an expert. Best of luck, I think it will be a beautiful piece when done.

Ok. Fire curing is out of the question now :] I agree that with a little bit of work this piece can be restored and look great. I was thinking about using a dark stain like red mahogany on the main support beams and then a slightly lighter stain for the front and side paneling. What do you think? Another alternative I was thinking of was using amber on the main support beams and then clear on the main and side paneling. Otherwise I am just going to stain it all one color. Please let me know if you have any suggestions about design!

Also, could someone please give me some tips on sanding and staining bamboo/rattan? I have never stained anything in my life so starting with this project is going to be a tough way to learn. It sounds like I just have to sand and apply several coats of stain with a brush or sponge. Has anyone stained for outside use and have a recommendation on types to use?

1. water or oil based? (leaning towards water since easier cleanup and non-flammable)
2. what looks best: transparant, semi-transparant, solid (leaning towards semi-transparant to restore color while still showing off the bamboo)
3. What type of stain should I use for outdoor on bamboo/rattan? Shellac, varnish, polyeurthane, varnish? (Sounds like a varnish stain might be most resistant to outdoor weather)

Here is an example of a design I am considering. Just look at the very front counter. I would make the support beams that darker color of the supporting wood and I would make the front and side panels that lighter amber color.

Here is another example of something similar that I might go with. That amber/orange color for the paneling with the darker color for the poles and countertop:

If anyone knows the exact stain colors of any of the images please let me know. Otherwise I am bringing in the pictures to home depot and relying on them.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 00:34 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 00:45 ]

Use a good wood cleaner on it first. you can get the flood wood cleaner it will help remove the gray and discolored marks. make sure you rinse it with water and let it dry. (the cleaner is made for decks and fences).sand it,
burn the nodes on the bamboo before staining.
use a oil Stain it will penetrate better and look natural. (solid stain is opaque and will look like paint)
top coat with an Polyurethane Spar Varnish for exterior use. several coats works best.
Take some scrape wood and put some samples on it to see what you like. if you go to a paint store they will help you.
looking forward to your progress pic's

Where are you located?
If you are in a dry area using stain or varnish may work for some time.
But I gave up putting bamboo or rattan outside as I live in Ohio and it rains a LOT
here so that's rot city no matter what you do.

This bar will never look pretty, I think of tiki bars as having a pretty and or gritty look.
For me the gritty look is best as it's way more easy for one thing because all the stuff
in your bar is going to age and get that gritty look on it's own especially outside.
IF you want a pretty bar outside your going to need to redo the bar every now and then
no matter if your area is wet or dry.
Too much work I say.

So why fight it, your bar has the gritty look many work hard to get that look in their tiki bars.
You may want to go gritty look and just spray the thing with a clear coat of a weather proofing
of some sort and be done.(at most a new top maybe)
I would not give this a burn as it would mess up that cool beachcomber look.
This protectant will need to be redone every year or two.
(But it will be an easy quick spray job, not a long stain varnish job)
That's the way I would go.

It's a cool bar, if you like it then the price was fine. (could not buy the stuff to build it with for that)
Put some tiki, lights and a few drinks on it and it will look way cooler.

Good Luck!

One more thing, here is some Wangi bamboo that I put shellac on and sealed about a year or so ago.
Next photo is how it looked when first done.

Also if you want to know how your bar will look with stain, shellac or varnish ect...
Do a test, take some of the bamboo off of the top on the far right side in the back, pieces you
won't see, and do tests on them.

Burn one shellac one varnish one on and on.
Then you will see what out come you will get.

Let us see what you come up with so others can learn form this.

Here is a post from 2007 where I talk about that burn don't burn and shellac.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=18485&forum=18&start=60

-==--==--==--==-Google "Tiki bar lights" To find TIKISKIP-==--==--==--==-

¦:-·:''"":·.-:¦:-**-:¦:-·:''"":·.-:¦

TikiSkip: I am located in IL so it rains a fairly decent amount but I am putting it in between two trees in a very shaded area. It will receive no direct sunlight which will prevent color wearing and rain exposure will be to a minimum since the trees above will divert the water away (plus the roof of the bar will help too). There is also a fence directly to the left which will prevent rain from that direction and I am planning to cover it during winter. If everything is applied correctly I should get at least two years out of it before a re-finish would be needed again which I would not mind doing.

You are right about the gritty look though. I cannot decide if that's for me or not though. Since it is surrounded by dark trees I think it would look REALLY cool to get a similar color going and keep the "tropical rain forest" theme going that I am shooting for. Since I live in Chicago my yard is really cool to have with those trees opposed to the urban landscape everywhere else. Let me know what you guys think! I am going to post a picture of the backyard below and try to mark where I am planning to assemble it (backyard still a work in progress).

Also please note that I have not assembled it yet just because it will be a lot easier to sand, burn, stain, varnish, dissembled.

At night time I put lights around the trees. It looks really cool and this bar will be a great addition. Right now I have an old indoor bar out there that just doesn't look good.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 09:21 ]

@TikiSkip: That shellac/burn color you provided is EXACTLY what I would like to do. It looks great. You really only got a year out of it before it deteriorated to the picture you provided? Do you think the same would happen to me based on the above post information I provided? If I got 2-3 years before it deteriorated I would be happy. I am going to use spar varnish instead of shellac since shellac is not meant for outdoor use.

This piece of yours below is really similar to what I want. It looks like you just used amber shellac throughout it all and burned the upper,lower, left, and right beams a bit more than the middle paneling. If I burn is it necessary to sand too?

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 09:22 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 09:26 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 09:27 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 10:46 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 10:51 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 11:14 ]

That above was done with new rattan and bamboo.
It will not be the same on yours, but then do a test to see.
For that look do a LITE burn so many times ya see this dark line that's too much burn I think.

"Do you think the same would happen to me based on the above post information I provided? If I got 2-3 years before it deteriorated I would be happy."

I can't say for sure but my guess is that it will turn to s$%t kinda fast,(2years)and you got snow, tree sap, is that a Pine tree?
But do what you think will be the best look for you.
If you put all that money and time into it and it goes bad for the most part you will be back where you started.

And I would do a lite sand then a LITE burn then shellac then do a protective seal on top of shellac.
Do this on a small piece to see if you like, then move on to the rest.

If I got two years before having to apply another coat I would be happy

Sorry for the continued questions (just want to do this right hopefully!) Do you think I could use spar varnish instead of that amber shellac and get similar results? According to the internet spar varnish is more resistant to outdoors than shellac and 2x as cheap. I also read spar varnish also acts as it's own protective coat which eliminates the need for a sealant and generally gives off an amber color when applied.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane-1-qt-Clear-Semi-Gloss-Exterior-Spar-Varnish-2-Pack-266321/203368887

Lastly, how many quarts do you think I would need for one layer? I would apply more than one layer just curious as to what the pricing would be for one. There are a few inside shelves in addition to what you see. I will probably leave the roof as is.

Thanks a ton for all of your advice so far. Really appreciate it.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 12:08 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 12:15 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 12:16 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 12:28 ]

I can't tell you first hand as I don't use that product.
Ask at the store you buy from.
Start with one quart but I bet it will be two.

I use shellac because that's what they used way back when.

Alright! So the plan is going to be:

1. Sand
2. Wash
3. Heat treat
4. Shellot then spar varnish OR just spar varnish if that will accomplish the amber color I want while also covering the blemishes.

Although, I am hoping the sanding and washing will remove some of the blemishes and get it back to a uniform state so that I do not have to use shellot at all and when I apply the spar varnish there aren't random blotches of gray.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 13:46 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 13:49 ]

i didn't like the way the varathane spar finish came out with brush application, very bubbly.
i had no problems with min-wax's polyurathane sealants.
this one might be the ticket for the uneven surfaces you're dealing with-
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/clear-protective-finishes/wipe-ons/minwax-water-based-wipe-on-poly

@muskrat do you suggest throwing that on over the shellot then? If so how many coats of each do you recommend?

The product you sent me is a clear coating so I don't think it would provide any color coverage to spruce this up.

yep, final coat over whatever you use to color it.
if it's going to be outside, they recommend 4 coats.
i used the min-wax waterbased polyurathane on all the wood in my build except for the actual bar which got two coats of the wipe on, but it's under a cover out of the weather.

If you decide on the min-wax, be sure to go with the "Outside" labeled version.

Awesome everyone. Thank you SO MUCH for all of your help. I had absolutely no idea where to start a day ago and now feel I have a solid game-plan in motion now.

(Revised)

1. Clean
2. Sand
3. 4 coats of amber shellot. 1 finishing coat of outdoor min-wax waterbased polyurathane.

If anyone else has any comments to add please do! Any additional help, tips, recommendations are welcome!

& @ Muskrat how long has your bar been outside for and have you had to touch it up yearly? If so how many coats did you use to touch it up?

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-18 18:33 ]

I also agree that you have to be careful when applying the shellac with a brush as you can get a lot of bubbles. Slow and even strokes are helpful. I'll bet your bar will turn out real nice based on all the help everyone gave here...is TC awesome or what!!!!

Have fun with your project. :tiki:

"3) 4 coats of amber shellot. 1 finishing coat of outdoor min-wax waterbased polyurathane."
I think it's one coat of shellac and 4 coats of outdoor min-wax waterbased polyurathane.
4 coats of amber shellac would be dark dark brown.

And muskrat where do you live?

Ah. Yeah. That does make more sense. Complete newbie here so did not pick up on that. Could you verify muskrat? I'm also interested to know what state you live in too if you can sustain an outside bar for a long period I'd guess you are somewhere dry maybe.

reverse that...1 (maybe 2) coats of shellac, 4 coats of outdoor polyurethane sealant.

i just finished my bar recently but i have used the min-wax on other projects with great success. some pieces i have have been outdoors for several years with very little sign of wear. when it comes time, a light sanding and re-coat with one or two coats should do.

What state are you from though?

i'm from sacramento, california.
not alotta rain this year but a whole lotta sun.
you can see some of the wood in my build thread-

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=47888&forum=20&36

[ Edited by: muskrat 2014-07-18 22:03 ]

To give you an idea of color, the top of the bar in this pic is regular pine that's burned and painted with marine varnish Amber color, no stain.

The Bamboo looking stuff is white PVC with 2 coats of amber shellac.

Can you get that varnish in amber color ?

You asked about how far a quart would cover with the varnish, I thinned it about 50% with mineral sprits and a quart would easily cover it maby more than once. I would thin it if I were you, it goes on easier and thinned gives you a better chance to get it spread even, because it dries fast. Thinned it will also soak in better/further which will protect it better. If you get a two pack like your link you could go over it a lot until you run out and it will really be protected, the stuff is made ot be out in the sun and weather so the more it soaks in the better.

I think it would look great redone, it would have a nice looking color and not dried out looking.

edit; this was gloss spar varnish

top color before

And after, plus PVC with amber shellac

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-19 22:42 ]

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-19 22:43 ]

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-19 22:45 ]

Dtel I'm a little confused by your post. The top picture is just burned and nothing else and the bottom picture is amber varnish on the pvc and what on the top?

"To give you an idea of color, the top of the bar in this pic is regular pine that's burned and painted with marine varnish Amber color, no stain."

Read the text, It's all in there.

I'm confused about the "edit; this was gloss spar varnish". So the top was burned and then gloss spar varnish or amber varnish??

On 2014-07-20 20:23, freestylpolaris wrote:
I'm confused about the "edit; this was gloss spar varnish". So the top was burned and then gloss spar varnish or amber varnish??

I just put the edit to say it was gloss varnish,(amber) I had forgot you said you wanted to use semi gloss and just wanted you to know it was gloss I had used and NOT semi gloss.

The top is burned then amber spar varnish in gloss, to finish off the rest of the varnish before it went bad I ended up with about 14 coats on the bar and 2-3 (I think) to the tables and stools and bench along the pond.

The PVC is shellac amber, it only comes in amber or clear with no choice of gloss or anything else.

The only reason I put the top picture was to show you what color the amber varnish added to plain wood to give you an idea what it does as far as how much color it adds.

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-20 21:06 ]

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-20 21:08 ]

Thanks a ton. That clears up a lot that I was misunderstanding.

Wow. 14 coats? Hope that lasts you a decade at least :wink:

& as it turns out we are both doing very similar processes. (but less coats).

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-20 22:13 ]

Well I didn't plan on that many coats for sure, I used Captains varnish 1015 from Pettit marine paint.

When I went looking I found our local price was $39 a quart and I guessed I needed probably 2 quarts. Then I found a place online who had a gallon for like $89 + about $12 shipping.

So not being sure how much I needed I just got the gallon, after using a little more than half I decided to do some other tables and add more coats to the bar. It was starting to dry up in the can anyway so instead of wasting it I used it.

I have to say we have used the bar a lot already for parties and fires (behind the bar)for the grandkids to roast marshmallows and stuff and nothing seems to stick to it. Spilled drinks, melted marshmallows, candy, syrup from drink mixes, nothing seems to stick, the next day just wipe off with a wet rag and it's clean, it's working great so far.

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-21 00:28 ]

Alright guys! After about a week of research and discussion I think I am almost ready to purchase materials and get started.

After the research I found out from several different online sources that spar varnish typically will hold up to weather better than polyurathane or anything else for that matter so I am going to stick with spar varnish.

I also found an oil-based spar varnish opposed to a water-based or oil-modified after an hour or two of searching, comparing, reviewing. From online sources and TC I hear that the oil based gets soaked into the wood better, resists weather better, and is less "paint" looking than the water-based. Here it is:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_174527-4-144.0018047.007_0__?productId=3017729&Ntt=spar+varnish&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dspar%2Bvarnish&facetInfo=#BVRRWidgetID

The only thing that concerns me is that under specifications it says "interior finish type: spar varnish" and on the can it says "interior/exterior". I want strictly exterior BUT I am fairly certain all spar varnish is exterior and it just says interior because it can be used as interior if people really want to.

SO. The game plan is:

1. Wash
2. Sand
3. Burn (More-so on main poles & roof for a darker color, a little bit on paneling as well)
4. 1-2 coats of amber shellac all over. Purchasing 2 quarts of this and hoping that will be enough:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-1-qt-Amber-Shellac-Traditional-Finish-and-Sealer-00704H/100126411

5. Apply 4-5 coats of oil based, exterior, semi-gloss spar varnish mixed with a 50% ratio of mineral spirits to avoid bubbling/increase drying time.

Spar varnish link is above.
Mineral spirits:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_206490-34228-CR.OMS.M.61_0__?productId=3024045&Ntt=mineral+spirits&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dmineral%2Bspirits&facetInfo=

The last thing I am a bit confused about is how to mix into a 50% ratio. If I am buying a gallon of spar varnish and a gallon of mineral spirits do I just pour both into a bowl and mix? Would that be a 50% ratio as dtel mentioned or is that a 100/100 ratio? Remember I am a complete novice at painting, staining so any comments and help is always appreciated. Thanks as always!

Oh, and do you all recommend I use mineral spirits for the shellac as well to avoid bubbling while applying?

& dtel. If you remember, how long did it take the spar varnish mixed with mineral spirits to dry? Typically I hear that without any kind of mixing spar varnish can take 24-48hrs to dry per coat so I am just curious howl long it would take mixed and maybe I could put a coat on before work and a coat on after work or something.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-21 11:33 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-21 11:39 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-21 12:02 ]

Hi Freestyle,
We used the Amber Shellac on the Bamboo sides of our bar for the color and, it looks great. but thin the shellac and clean your brushes with denatured alcohol. we used the Minwax Spar urethane on the top probably have 10 coats,
thinning the first coats and sanding between coats, use a good china bristle brush. i dont think you need to thin it quite so much for the final coats maybe 25%, the Spar varnish take's the mineral spirits or paint thinner to thin and clean up, don't use it in your shellac. you can by some empty paint cans with lids to mix with. you may want to do a test to make sure the spar stick's well to the Shellac.
Good Luck!

Time for talk is over! begin the project.
take pics.....

I measured equal parts of each and put it something else to apply, don't shake of cause extra bubbles.

I applied, the next day sanded and reapplied, repeat, repeat, ......

Being what your doing, I would not try to sand every time, except if you get a bad bubble, your sanding is going to be much harder, it's not flat. Apply kind of steady, don't keep brushing it dries fast and you will just make brush marks, fix screw-ups by sand before re applying. Close can, don't leave open for no reason.

Get to work, you will see it's not hard, you can't mess up to bad look at the bar now, it's dry, it will only improve.

Haha yeah, I agree. It can't look any worse. Some people like that look; not me. Especially after seeing some of the renovation jobs on here.

Works been insane lately but I plan on ordering the things tomorrow or picking them up from a local store if available and then hopefully finishing washing and sanding by the weekend and then starting the shellac and varnish process throughout the weekend. We are getting new windows, a fence, working on the trees, and patching the roof so no promises! :] Busy busy week.

Thanks everyone for your time once again. Hopefully this thread will be of use to others and the pictures as well.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-07-21 20:51 ]

Ah, Dtel. Actualy one last question. Did you thin both the shellac and varnish or just the varnish? It sounds like you did both and would make sense to thin the shellac to apply easier but just checking

I did not thin the shellac, it's as thin as water already and dries fast, move quickly and don't worry much about any small runs, trying to re brushing only makes it worse.

I only thinned the Varnish

[ Edited by: dtel 2014-07-21 21:05 ]

Is using a roller on the large supporting frame portions out of the question for shellac or varnish due to bubbling? I am picking up everything today.

On 2014-07-22 13:50, freestylpolaris wrote:
Is using a roller on the large supporting frame portions out of the question for shellac or varnish due to bubbling? I am picking up everything today.

On the Varnish I used a foam roller, the small ones about 4" long to put it on kind of quickly, one small area at a time (like 2 feet on the top of the bar and quickly followed with a brush slowly smoothing it out with one light pass of the width of the brush moving on before it got tacky which is pretty quick, worked great.

On the shellac I just brushed it on, it's so thin it really doesn't hold bubbles and dries almost as fast as you put it on.

Just my experiences.

Great! Thanks for the continued help dtel. Made 3 stops today after work to pick up the varnish, mineral spirits, facemasks, gloves, shellot, blow torch, extra sander for my buddy, & sandpaper. Going to see tomorrow if I can salvage my brushes, rollers, paint pans, and bowl to save some $.

Will also be washing the bar and sanding if it dries quick enough. Then Torching if I have time.

Getting there.

On 2014-07-22 21:07, freestylpolaris wrote:
Going to see tomorrow if I can salvage my brushes, rollers, paint pans, and bowl to save some $.

Will also be washing the bar and sanding if it dries quick enough. Then Torching if I have time.

Getting there.

Your going to be fine, even if you totally mess up the first coat learning just lightly sand ad re do it the next day and it will be fine.

I got a pack of those foam rollers, once the varnish is on it you can't really clean them, use a new one for each coat, there cheap. I was able to clean the brush, I just used an old glass pan we had to mix the varnish and mineral spirits, after a coat on the bar I just flipped it over and let it dry, it was hard as a rock the next day to reuse.

Get a good size container of mineral spirits, I think we got a 2 gallon, you need it to clean you hands, brushes and to use as thinner, it's usually cheaper per gallon in 2 gallon the container.

Your going to be fine, just remember it all dries fast so don't play around......you will see.

Got 1 out of 3 of the main panels done yesterday. Took a lot longer than I thought it would. Had to gently scrape off the old stain/paint/whatever the previous user put on there (would varnish remover work better? It is thin and plastic, some areas I can peel it right off with my hand other areas I had to scrape it off). Then sand & clean. Then apply the shellot. I had NO issues with bubbling or anything so that was a relief.

After I get the shellot on all the main panels and other posts I will apply the several coats of varnish.

Will post pics after work! Looks so much better than before.

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-08-04 07:52 ]

[ Edited by: freestylpolaris 2014-08-04 08:00 ]