Lemon Hart question

...and a teaspoonful of this!

I have been trying to figure out just how much LH151 we use to see how much I need on hand to get through June 15th and beyond. So far we seem to use 1 bottle every 20 days... That means I need 18 bottles at a minimum.

We have been drinking a lot of "Cobra's Fangs" lately which uses a lot of it. But we make a lot of drinks that call for it.

I definitely need more. I got 10 more bottles of the new after this picture was taken. 22 then, already at 19 or 20...

Swanky, some people complain loudly about their bar tabs when they go out. You, however, are definitely justified in complaining loudly about your bar tab when you stay in! :D

And I thought I drank a lot. :)

Found LH151 in Chicago this weekend and brought back a couple of bottles. They had El Do 151, and as someone said, it is a clear rum probably similar to Wray and Nephew Overproof, only stronger. Not an option. I left 1 bottle of LH151 at the Liquor Warehouse on Wabash...

I picked up my first bottle of Goslings 151 this morning and will begin testing side-by-side with LH151 very soon. I can't find my white lab coat and safety goggles which is probably a pretty good clue that I need to go outside and check the bushes. That last explosion in the liquor lab was intense...

Ouch...

well.... we're WAITING....

I don't really think it is a good sub, but it is a LOT cheaper so I hope we can make it work :)

I am sorry to say that the last source for old label Lemon Hart in NYC that I know of, Union Square Wines, is out. I was in Astor Wines & Spirits tonight and they seem to have plenty of the later version on the shelf, for what that's worth.

You can read all you want to, but do the taste comparison yourself, if you can. Very sadly, I find the newer release dull compared to the old label. I think the Hamilton/Cate youtube video was honest. They admits there's a difference, whatever the rationalization. I bought a couple of bottles in support of the venture (of course! what a noble cause!) but I was really disappointed.

On the other hand, Ed Hamilton's new series of rums are over the top fantastic! Check out his Jamaican and St. Lucian pot stills and you could put your Lemon Hart blues away for awhile. These are serious pirate rums! Try a Mai Tai made with Hamilton Jamaican (only - no agricole needed)). Killin'!

-Jack

On 2014-07-22 09:39, Swanky wrote:
Found LH151 in Chicago this weekend and brought back a couple of bottles. They had El Do 151, and as someone said, it is a clear rum probably similar to Wray and Nephew Overproof, only stronger. Not an option. I left 1 bottle of LH151 at the Liquor Warehouse on Wabash...

There were two. WERE. :wink:

Maybe I posted this before? Maybe not here?

Try using a 1:1 mix of Goslings 151 and Plantation Old Dark (not my idea - they did this at PKNY) as a dark over-proof option.

It's not Lemon Hart 151. It's a great alternative with it's own character, that I came to crave.

Jack

This might seem sacrilegious, but if you're making a 1934 Zombie, what if you switched the Puerto Rican Gold with Bacardi/Cruzan 151, and switched the Lemon Hart 151 for 80-proof El Dorado Demerara? Seems to me you would retain the Demerara flavor and the extra kick. Unfortunately, I have neither Bacardi 151 nor El Dorado currently to test this.

If I weren't so lazy, I'd test some of these out.

I'm curious as to how much one would miss the LH151 in the '34 Zombie if a reasonable substitute was used.

I'm guessing it wouldn't matter too much.

After all, who the hell knows what LH tasted like 80 years ago. There's no reason to think it's all that close to today's version anyway.

On 2014-07-23 09:48, djmont wrote:
If I weren't so lazy, I'd test some of these out.

I'm curious as to how much one would miss the LH151 in the '34 Zombie if a reasonable substitute was used.

I'm guessing it wouldn't matter too much.

After all, who the hell knows what LH tasted like 80 years ago. There's no reason to think it's all that close to today's version anyway.

A) I often make it with 80 proof instead of 151 and it works fine. Just less potent.
B) We may not know what it tasted like 60 years ago, but someone out there does, like Steven Remsburg, however, just as we do not actually know what #4 is, we do know that using cinnamon syrup gives you a good drink, we know that current LH151 also gives a really good drink.

Although we do not have Dagger Puncg Rum, we can use other rums and get at it. If LH151 today was nothing like it used to be, the drink today would not be very good either.

I'm not suggesting that today's LH151 is nothing like what it was 80 years ago. I'm saying that it's inevitably going to be different. (Hell, some people think the current iteration is enough different from the last one that they don't like it.)

So it's not unreasonable by any means to substitute a similar rum when necessary -- and to do so with the knowledge that it's not going to change the drink THAT much.

In the end, as long as it tastes good...

On 2014-07-23 09:22, arriano wrote:
This might seem sacrilegious, but if you're making a 1934 Zombie, what if you switched the Puerto Rican Gold with Bacardi/Cruzan 151, and switched the Lemon Hart 151 for 80-proof El Dorado Demerara? Seems to me you would retain the Demerara flavor and the extra kick. Unfortunately, I have neither Bacardi 151 nor El Dorado currently to test this.

Arriano, I hesitate to use Bacardi 151 for anything because it has a sharper ("less good") flavor profile than other products. It does make for decent flaming garnishes, though! :)

Since Bacardi 151 is very low-end compared to Lemon Hart, there may be another way to introduce flavor and then kick up the alcohol content with a neutral spirit like Everclear. That's just speculation on my part, though, because the complex flavor profile of LH151 is very hard to substitute. As others pointed out here within the last couple of hours, though, substitutions sometimes don't alter a drink that much, and we may eventually come to settle on somewhat of an acceptable substitute. I think you're heading in the right direction with your thinking. I wish I had the time to explore all kinds of interesting options.

Blah. I need a drink!

I don't have any Gosling's 151, so I'll have to wait on trying that one until I pick some up.

What sounds like another promising substitution?

1 oz. of Cruzan 151 and 1 1/2 oz. El Dorado 5? (for the gold Puerto Rico and Demerara)

Thoughts?

On 2014-07-23 09:22, arriano wrote:
This might seem sacrilegious, but if you're making a 1934 Zombie, what if you switched the Puerto Rican Gold with Bacardi/Cruzan 151, and switched the Lemon Hart 151 for 80-proof El Dorado Demerara? Seems to me you would retain the Demerara flavor and the extra kick. Unfortunately, I have neither Bacardi 151 nor El Dorado currently to test this.

No less an authority than Jeff "Beachbum" Berry himself has suggested (to me, directly, as we were discussing this subject at The Hukilau) this very course of action, calling it "the switcheroo." The catch -- and there's always a catch -- is that it really only works in recipes which call for the same amount of a PR gold AND of LH151. The 1934 Zombie calls for 1½oz of PR gold rum and 1oz of LH151, so in this case it won't work quite so well, as you'd have to do a bit more math (½oz PR gold + 1oz Bacardí 151 + 1oz ED5/8/etc.) and the approximation will be less exact.

That said, the 1950 Zombie -- a better drink, IMO -- does call for 1oz each of PR gold and LH151, so you could comfortably do the switcheroo there.

You could buy a mini or two of the Bacardi 151 and the El Dorado (I've only seen ED12 in mini, though) to test it out.

Me, personally, don't find the Bacardí 151 to be any more or any less than a high-octane version of their gold rum, so I have no qualms slotting it in in recipes which feature PR gold. (Once I run out, I'll play with Cruzan 151, but this is not among those things keeping me awake at night.)

YMMV,

The Goslings 151 sub is going to give you more of the richness and depth of flavor that the Cruzan 151/ED 5 sub will not. What will get you into the ballpark along the same lines would be subbing with Cruzan 151/ED Dark. ED Dark is a very potent, burnt-acrid 80 proof product that you sometimes come across on store shelves. In increments of more that a half oz it overpowers most drinks, but just a bit of it in combo with Cruzan 151 should give a high octaine/high flavor substitute for LH151 that I think could work well.

On 2014-07-23 11:57, Sunny&Rummy wrote:
The Goslings 151 sub is going to give you more of the richness and depth of flavor that the Cruzan 151/ED 5 sub will not. What will get you into the ballpark along the same lines would be subbing with Cruzan 151/ED Dark. ED Dark is a very potent, burnt-acrid 80 proof product that you sometimes come across on store shelves. In increments of more that a half oz it overpowers most drinks, but just a bit of it in combo with Cruzan 151 should give a high octaine/high flavor substitute for LH151 that I think could work well.

FWIW, Here in Miami, ABC carries ED Dark.

On 2014-07-23 11:57, Sunny&Rummy wrote:
The Goslings 151 sub is going to give you more of the richness and depth of flavor that the Cruzan 151/ED 5 sub will not. What will get you into the ballpark along the same lines would be subbing with Cruzan 151/ED Dark. ED Dark is a very potent, burnt-acrid 80 proof product that you sometimes come across on store shelves. In increments of more that a half oz it overpowers most drinks, but just a bit of it in combo with Cruzan 151 should give a high octaine/high flavor substitute for LH151 that I think could work well.

Interesting suggestion. I've never tried the entry-level El Dorado, but this is a good excuse to pick some up. :)

I still have 4 or 5 bottles of LH151, but it never hurts to think ahead.

I do think that in general, any drink calling for 151 Demerara can be subbed with 80 proof and it'll just fine, maybe better.

On 2014-07-24 07:08, Swanky wrote:
I do think that in general, any drink calling for 151 Demerara can be subbed with 80 proof and it'll just fine, maybe better.

Agreed.

On 2014-07-24 07:08, Swanky wrote:
I do think that in general, any drink calling for 151 Demerara can be subbed with 80 proof and it'll just fine, maybe better.

That sounds like a someone sitting on a couple of cases of LH 151 trying to convince the rest of us that the impending apocalypse really won't be so bad. :)

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the LH151 crisis is causing me to branch out and try new things I've never bought before.

I have a buddy coming over tonight who will help me with some taste tests of the new stuff I've recently bought. He gets free booze and I get more data to store in my brain and to share with others.

Did someone say free booze!

Yessir, but he has to work for it with tasting ratings and impressions.

Still not a bad gig though, huh?

I'll invite you guys over for free booze. As long as you're not too weird. :)

Maybe this information has already been posted in this thread, but I saw lots of confusion and guesses about the Lemon Hart 151 supply break. I spoke to a rep at Mosaiq last week about it, and it was as simple as this:

Nothing is changing with the product. They are just moving the bottling factory from Newfoundland to Montreal. They expect to have it back in the supply chain next summer.

That was it.

I also picked up some El Dorado 151. As mentioned already, it's not even remotely like the Lemon Hart 151.
Oh, and Lemon Hart Premium (80 Proof), and Lemon Hart Navy Spiced (86 Proof) are available in British Columbia.

[ Edited by: MyTiki 2014-07-25 12:00 ]

MyTiki, thanks for that info, I'm sure everyone finds that intriguing. Nice first post on TC for you, by the way. Please consider going to the "new members introduction" thread and introduce yourself.

Here are my Lemon Hart 151 and Gosling's 151 tasting results from last night's informal "Liver Games" at my home bar:

"Better living through chemistry. Brought to you by the folks at Ace Explorer labs."

On 2014-07-25 06:50, AceExplorer wrote:
Here are my Lemon Hart 151 and Gosling's 151 tasting results from last night's informal "Liver Games" at my home bar:

---

"Better living through chemistry. Brought to you by the folks at Ace Explorer labs."

What cocktail did you try it with? Swizzle?

Nope, all we had time for was to taste and study the two 151 rums diluted 1:1 with pure water. (We did the same for a couple other rums last night, therefore the "Liver Games" moniker was coined as a tongue-in-cheek reference to the recent "Hunger Games" movies. Drink or die, right? ha...)

I made a comment at the end of my notes that we MUST try the rums in a cocktail in order to continue and finish the comparison process. Your suggestion, the 151 Swizzle, seems to be a very good choice and it didn't come to mind.

Both rums must be mixed to see how they stand up. I don't expect the Gosling's to be crappy, just different. I'm looking to see how well it compares to LH151 and I'm not expecting a clone. My theory is that those who have little or no LH151 will likely find themselves in a hurry with guests and will be unwilling or unable to take the time to carefully prepare some sort of mixture of rums which closely approach LH151. So this is sort of a "service to mankind," heh.

So the question for me is whether the Gosling's/Lemon Hart difference is worth worrying about when I have guests at my bar. And if the difference is not a great big difference, then why sweat it when, for the time being, I can just have some playful fun with it until the supply is restored?

While I generally like the purist approach to the accuracy of my historical cocktails, I bought up enough LH151 to last me about two years. And I'm enjoying the experience of tinkering with Gosling's and making comparisons as opposed to staying in a rut. This is a big part of the joy of operating a good home bar.

"The Liver Games: Drink or Die." (c)2014 Ace Explorer. All rights are mine. Alright!

Good Goslings 151 / LH151 comparison AceExplorer! I agree with your assertion that (in light of the LH151 shortage) trying out alternatives to LH151 is part of the fun of having a home bar - I would compare it to trying out new mai tai combos (even if you've got your favorite combo, you've got to try a new one!)

Let me tell you where I found Goslings 151 to be successful:

I have been comparing LH151 / Bacardi 151 / Plantation Overproof / Goslings 151 in the Simplified Zombie from Remixed. I add Pernod & angostura bitters, I'm using Appleton 12 as dark jamaican. I also mix it like a 1934 Zombie instead of shaking it (ie blend approx half the ice & top up with crushed ice).

Goslings 151 makes a better drink than all the others IMO (including LH151).

The last time we all went through this, what I ended up doing was using Goslings 151 or Bacardi 151 for the 151 "kick" part of the drink and then using El Dorado 12 and Kohala Bay Jamaican. It was by no means perfect, but I got the 151 knock-down, a nice Demerara flavor and a good funky Jamaican mixed in. For me at least, it turned out to be a good substitute. It was either that or...... do without. Me no like do without!

I bet you feel more like you do now now than you did when you came in.

GENT

[ Edited by: GentleHangman 2014-07-25 15:00 ]

Looks like the drinkupny.com free shipping for orders over $200 is only for the east coast. Ground to California is $29.99, so that adds a bit to your order.

EDIT: shipping depends on how many bottles you purchase. I ended up with 7, so it was $27.99.

[ Edited by: lunavideogames 2014-08-05 17:58 ]

A new 151 rum from Lost Spirits. Not quite what we're looking for as a Lemon Hart stand-in, but it sounds great. Perhaps a Demerara should be their next project.
http://rumconnection.com/review-lost-spirits-cuban-inspired-rum/
http://www.cocktailwonk.com/2014/07/the-hottest-tot-north-of-havana-lost.html

long, long time lurker. first time poster.

behold. in a small hole-in-the-wall liquor store in red bluff, CA...yesterday night, i stumbled across five "original label" bottles of lemon hart 151 rum. i'm no urban archeologist, but based on the thick amount of dust on them and the style of price sticker, they had likely been sitting on the shelf since the late 80s or early 90s. the owner was trying to get rid of them. price: $19 each. sometimes fortune smiles...

You bastard! :lol:

On 2014-08-20 20:49, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
A new 151 rum from Lost Spirits. Not quite what we're looking for as a Lemon Hart stand-in, but it sounds great. Perhaps a Demerara should be their next project.
http://rumconnection.com/review-lost-spirits-cuban-inspired-rum/
http://www.cocktailwonk.com/2014/07/the-hottest-tot-north-of-havana-lost.html

That guy Bryan is the mad scientist of rum. I need these rums!

On 2014-08-21 18:31, gottwaldster wrote:
long, long time lurker. first time poster.

behold. in a small hole-in-the-wall liquor store in red bluff, CA...yesterday night, i stumbled across five "original label" bottles of lemon hart 151 rum. i'm no urban archeologist, but based on the thick amount of dust on them and the style of price sticker, they had likely been sitting on the shelf since the late 80s or early 90s. the owner was trying to get rid of them. price: $19 each. sometimes fortune smiles...

A very nice find! Looks like you got everything they had left? Awesome! Some wonderful drinks are the reward for having a sharp eye. I often wonder how many bottles of LH151 are still available around the country, just waiting to be discovered on the shelves of quiet little liquor stores.

I've come across a stash of LH151 and am debating buying it. I can't possibly use a case of it myself, though, on top of what I've already got. Would anyone potentially be interested in buying some? I wouldn't be trying to make a big profit or anything. So probably something like $40/bottle plus shipping. (I'm not exactly sure how much it's going to cost me yet.)

Lemme know if you might want some. You can PM me or email: [email protected]

Cheers,
DJM

Yeah, that's quite a dilemma. It's a "must-have" rum, but you don't want to overbuy because it may come back on the market in another year or so. But then if it doesn't come back, then you should horde it. Yowza...

I ended up ordering 5 bottles. Seeing as how I already have a handful, that should see me through the lean times. :)

Looks like there are still plenty of stores carrying LH151:

http://www.drinkupny.com/Lemon_Hart_151_p/s0375.htm

http://www.luekensliquors.com/spirits/rum/lemon-hart-151-rhum-demerara-rum-750ml
(Multiple locations in Florida)

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/lemon+hart+151+demerara+rum+guyana

On 2014-05-27 00:43, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this just went up on the Lemon Hart 151 Facebook page about 5 hours ago:

"I"m sorry too report that Mosaiq, the Lemon Hart brand owner, has decided not to bottle any more Lemon Hart 151 until at least the middle of 2015. I wish I had the opportunity to buy more and offered to buy 5,000 cases but was turned down. Planning is everything. I'm working on obtaining another overproof rum that will work in many of the cocktails you love."

https://www.facebook.com/LH151

Sadly, I have heard from credible sources that LH 151 is basically no more. From what I gather Mosaiq is not making any money on the brand in Canada. There profits are getting eaten up on importing to the us. They are looking to sell the brand so that someone will still produce it. Basically, we will be looking at a new rendition of LH 151 if we ever see it again. I hope this information is not correct, but it has always struck me as odd that a company would just stop production on a popular rum for a couple years. We may be at the end of the line for tikis most famous rum.

W...T...F ?!? Deja Vu all over again. I don't suppose an avalanche of emails would make a difference these days with the corporate mindset being what it is.

I don't understand how the profits are getting eaten up on this one product when they have a global portfolio and global markets. You would think they would know how to supply the right amount of this product to meet the demand from a small but fanatical customer base.

There has to be other production or supply-side issues going on that are feeding into these decisions.