outside ice makers and crusher recommendations?

I'm in the market for a "portable" or countertop ice maker for my bar. (I guess it could be an under the counter variety as well...although would prefer to spend less than that if possible.)

I'm looking for recommendations if anyone uses a dedicated ice maker. I was considering a model that made "clear" ice. But then, I realized for a lot of the cocktails I like, I enjoy eating the ice after the drink is gone to extend the drink (thus spacing out drinks more to avoid excess drinking)...I love mai tai flavored ice. So, with that in mind maybe it doesn't matter if it makes clear ice.

Also, as I came to the realization about eating the ice, I realized that crushed ice is preferable to whole cubes. So, I'm also looking for ice crusher recommendations? (My ideal would be something that lasts, does a good job, is quick, and won't wake up the neighbors.)

[ Edited by: jimsflies 2015-09-23 05:33 ]

We've had a number of discussions here on that topic, some very recently. Start by reading this thread from July 2015 where a number of us chimed in (me included) on not only ice and various machines, but soft-versus-hard, chewing ice, buying bags of ice from Sonic, and lots more:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=49478&forum=10

Then do some more searches here on Tiki Central and you may find that you can get a good start on your quest direct from people who need to make ice for their cocktails.

Cheers!

Of course, I have been reading various threads here on TC (and anywhere else I can find info).

I think my first post might have sounded like I wanted to talk about what type of ice; however, I'm mostly interested in knowing whether anyone is using a countertop ice machine and whether they are happy with their purchase? (I did notice your posts in the Opal ice machine thread...and they were good info. But figured that thread topic was specific to getting input on the Opal machine whereas, I was hoping for additional experiences with counter top ice machines.)

The opal ice machine sounds nice and may preclude the need to crush. However, $450-500 for what looks like a cheaply built machine that isn't available until next summer doesn't appeal to me right now. (Other countertop ice machines that have a similar size seem to be in the $150-$250 price range.)

A search for "ice crusher" would have taken you to this thread which discusses manual and automatic ice crushers people here have used.

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=31935&forum=10&start=0&hilite=ice crusher

Good to hear, glad you read the other threads. Thread titles are not always very clear here, and the Opal ice machine didn't sound good to me based on my experience. But we got into some good info deeper in that thread as we all chimed in.

I think you're right on target with the pricing estimates. I found the hard way that you do get what you pay for. I finally gave up on countertop ice machines and got lucky by finding a scratch-and-dent Kitchen Aid unit at Lowe's which I got for around $750. It makes solid clear ice MUCH faster, and in a good quantity. Best of all, it can keep up with shaking drinks, straining them, and filling glasses with ice for an entire evening. (It has a 50lb capacity and is insulated.) The counter top machines are just too slow and too low-volume.

I think you'll be most satisfied if you save up the money and find a scratch-and-dent unit at the Sears Outlet or one of the big-box hardware stores. Good luck in your search and let us know how you decide to go.

Oh look, here's another: http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=40943&forum=10&start=15&hilite=ice crusher

@JenTiki thanks for helping.

While I agree looking in old threads is a good idea for info, there are new products developed from year to year. Looking at threads from 4-5+ years ago doesn't necessarily provide the most up to date information regarding what's available. I suppose I could ask in those old threads...would I get any better information than starting a new thread? While I haven't seen it complained about as much on TC, many forums discourage dredging up old threads.

On 2015-09-22 14:23, jimsflies wrote:
@JenTiki thanks for helping.

While I agree looking in old threads is a good idea for info, there are new products developed from year to year. Looking at threads from 4-5+ years ago doesn't necessarily provide the most up to date information regarding what's available. I suppose I could ask in those old threads...would I get any better information than starting a new thread? While I haven't seen it complained about as much on TC, many forums discourage dredging up old threads.

All good questions, jimsflies. I'll take a stab at a follow-up and hope you don't mind. Creating a bunch of new threads with the same subject is what we hope to avoid, as that creates confusion when people search the forums and get a bunch of threads which ask duplicate questions. I don't know about other forums, and I don't know your definition of "old threads" on other forums, but I do know it is helpful to jump in here and "bump" a thread and ask a question. I think that way because this forum is a long-term repository of information more than just a social chat board. It's helpful to have topics together in groups as opposed to being spread out over multiple threads. It also helps others here know that you took some time to research what has already been discussed.

I know there are other points of view, and I know there are moderators here who could provide input too.

On 2015-09-22 16:03, AceExplorer wrote:

All good questions, jimsflies. I'll take a stab at a follow-up and hope you don't mind. Creating a bunch of new threads with the same subject is what we hope to avoid, as that creates confusion when people search the forums and get a bunch of threads which ask duplicate questions. I don't know about other forums, and I don't know your definition of "old threads" on other forums, but I do know it is helpful to jump in here and "bump" a thread and ask a question. I think that way because this forum is a long-term repository of information more than just a social chat board. It's helpful to have topics together in groups as opposed to being spread out over multiple threads. It also helps others here know that you took some time to research what has already been discussed.

I know there are other points of view, and I know there are moderators here who could provide input too.

Exactly. Perfectly said Ace.

These can be found at thrift stores cheep.
I have one, It works.
Paid nine bucks for it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Retro-1960s-Turquoise-Oster-Snoflake-Snowflake-Electric-Ice-Crusher-/191694662014?hash=item2ca1e4697e

The thing about a Ice Maker made for your home is you get this small compressor
With a small plate to make ice on so it goes slow.
NOW you are going to put it outside and need ice when it’s hot, so your small unit
is in the heat and getting the piss worked out of it.

I don’t think you will be happy with a home unit, heck my five thousand dollar ice maker
for my restaurant would kinda bog down in the summer heat in my kitchen.
We would try to only rum it in the night after we closed as it would really crank out some heat.
In the winter we would run it in the day and get free heat as it was cold.
The ice storage bin was huge!
I got this unit used for like $700.00 bucks from Woolworths when they closed, and it
Was only one year old!

Knew a guy here that bought this one I think and put it INDOORS and he said it did not work well
And heck that’s like $800.00 bucks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-lb-Undercounter-Ice-Maker-Stainless-Steel-Built-In-Clear-Cube-Ice-Machine-/281243323942?hash=item417b688e26

It’s fun to say look at my cool ice machine for my bar but if it does not work it’s kind of a waste.

Good luck!!

PS go to Amazon type in "Under counter Ice Maker" look at what they have and read the reviews on the different models, not a lot of happy people.
One guy said his was loud and ran all day, plus the ice melted fast as the unit was
not insulated well.

AND you know there are some fake ones posted by the company saying their unit is great.

Good points, Skip. Sometimes it really is a better choice to just buy bagged ice if you know you're going to have a big event.

@tikiskip Thanks for the info.

As you know, my bar is outside (and mostly used in the summer here in Michigan). So if sitting at 90-degrees ambient is going to keep it from making ice, and it certainly makes sense that it would impact performance...then an ice machine may not be the way to go for my situation.

I don't necessarily need a machine to keep up with a party situation (of course it would be nice). I don't mind picking up ice when guests are here for a drink. But it would be nice to have at least a few drinks worth of ice when I want to make a couple drinks in the evening for myself and my wife. Currently, I get the ice from the refrigerator in the kitchen which is inside and up a flight of stairs (not conveniently located to the bar). Plus the recently purchased Samsung fridge I bought for the kitchen seems to have a smaller capacity ice maker than other fridges I have owned.

I have been researching models and you're right there are aren't many of them that get positive reviews consistently.

I think the best bet would be to buy a full size refrigerator that
makes ice and has a full freezer you could fill with ice.
Those would be better insulated as well.

Then you also have all that refrigerator space too.
Get an old Norge refrigerator.
They do make remakes of the old style refrigerator too.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=old+style+refrigerator&tbm=shop&spd=11617215236778370076

I'd have to do a ton of bar remodeling to fit one of those full size fridges out there. But its food for thought...this might fall under "the things I wished I had done differently" if I end up going that route. Or at least its a tip for your build tips thread...make sure to really think through what your bar needs are before constructing the bar. As I've gotten the structural and decorative part of the bar to the point of actually being able to use it, I now realize that refrigeration and running water should have been a higher priority.

[ Edited by: jimsflies 2015-09-23 06:16 ]

On 2015-09-23 05:45, jimsflies wrote:
As you know, my bar is outside (and mostly used in the summer here in Michigan). So if sitting at 90-degrees ambient is going to keep it from making ice, and it certainly makes sense that it would impact performance...then an ice machine may not be the way to go for my situation.

I don't necessarily need a machine to keep up with a party situation (of course it would be nice). I don't mind picking up ice when guests are here for a drink. But it would be nice to have at least a few drinks worth of ice when I want to make a couple drinks in the evening for myself and my wife. Currently, I get the ice from the refrigerator in the kitchen which is inside and up a flight of stairs (not conveniently located to the bar). Plus the recently purchased Samsung fridge I bought for the kitchen seems to have a smaller capacity ice maker than other fridges I have owned.

I don't think you'll have a problem outside, the free-standing ice machines are decently well insulated although not intended for outdoor use. My thoughts on this are to either (a) test it outside and see how it works, or (b) use it indoors and keep a full 50lbs of ice ready and, when needed, carry it outside in a caddy when using your bar. I think your guests would understand the use of a ice caddy, although it would be nicer to keep the machine outside with your bar.

The only problem is that the machine should be protected outdoors against corrosion, insects taking up residence in side the machine, and stuff like that. A third option would be to keep the machine portable, on rollers, but then you lose the spontaneity of having ice on a moment's notice.

Tough choices. But to me it's very clear that I will never own another counter-top ice machine again. They are consistent disappointments because they are slow, noisy, and very low volume and not worth the money or the annoyances.

From an installation perspective, until you get something plumbed and wired at your bar, you can get by with an extension cord. For water, you can use a drinking water hose (not a garden hose!) with a good pre-filter to trap sediment and other things which are found in any municipal water supply. Then do your electrical and plumbing later at your convenience.

Thanks Ace. I appreciate your feedback on the "portable countertop" models. Fortunately, I already have electricity permanently wired to the bar (there is a beverage fridge and kegerator already in the bar). I'm currently in the design process of getting running water (mostly to be able to rinse barware and hands)...fortunately I'm a water resource engineer for a living and in a former job designed municipal drinking water systems. My plan involves an NSF approved potable water hose from the house. I'm hoping to get by with "hose temperature" water. The bigger part of that project is dealing with the waste water. Since its not going to be high volume usage and only "grey" water, I'm planning to install a crock/french drain near the bar.

Maybe along the lines of tikiskip's suggestion, I should consider ice cube trays and something along these lines:
http://amzn.com/B00L7QVT8S

http://amzn.com/B00MVVIMG0

I could also pickup a bag of ice and leave it in there. As well as use it for keeping mugs frosty or storing Navy Grog Ice Cones, etc.

Yup, Skip is on to something, ice cube trays in a mini-freeze would work and solve a lot of problems quickly. You can't keep a store-bought bag of ice in a freezer too long though, they freeze solid after certain amount of time passes.

With electricity, you're miles a head of most on your project. I sense success in your future! :)

Anything that is going to make enough ice to keep up is going to be big and expensive. I used a portable one for a short time, but it just was completely unable to keep pace. After trying various things, we settled for ice buckets and a fridge with dual ice makers and crushed through the door. When we run low, we send someone to get more crushed inside and when that runs out, we scoop the cubes from the bottom maker into the top and crush that. If we run out at that point, we probably should stop drinking anyway...

This allows for more quiet in the bar, less cost and less space needed. No lines to run, etc. And almost always using crushed, not cubed ice would mean either a more expensive maker or more noise and hassle and space required.

So, forget the ice in the bar, and use ice from your fridge and an insulated bucket. One bucket full of crushed ice will make about 8-12 cocktails. 2-3 rounds for 4 people. ANd it's not a huge bucket. ANd guests or spouses are more than happy to get more and help out.

And think about your typical commercial bar. They don't have ice machines back there, they bring it from the back in 5 gallon buckets and just have insulated coolers. So get the cooler the size you need and transport the ice. SO much easier and simpler.

Like Mai-Kai: History, Mystery and Adventure the book

[ Edited by: Swanky 2015-09-23 12:06 ]

On 2015-09-23 12:02, Swanky wrote:
If we run out at that point, we probably should stop drinking anyway...

Come on, Swanky! You disappoint me! :wink:

coughwussiecough

On 2015-09-23 14:00, JenTiki wrote:

On 2015-09-23 12:02, Swanky wrote:
If we run out at that point, we probably should stop drinking anyway...

Come on, Swanky! You disappoint me! :wink:

coughwussiecough

You think you can hang wit us? c'mon...

On 2015-09-24 06:46, Swanky wrote:

On 2015-09-23 14:00, JenTiki wrote:

On 2015-09-23 12:02, Swanky wrote:
If we run out at that point, we probably should stop drinking anyway...

Come on, Swanky! You disappoint me! :wink:

coughwussiecough

You think you can hang wit us? c'mon...

How's early November? And I don't remember, do you have a guest room? No way I'm driving back across those mountains after drinking you under the table.

Hey this just in.
Check out Craig's list as they have lots of commercial ice machines
for sale in this "improving economy" lots of businesses are oddly going out.
Heck you can get a good used commercial grade ice machine for what the small home units are going for.

Don't buy crap, pay more and get a thing of value.
People will be blown away when you show them a real ice machine.
Manitowac makes good ones as well as Hoshizaki.

Here is a sale near you?
http://centralmich.craigslist.org/bfd/5235081058.html

We got pretty ripped at Swankys!
Lots of what we drank was really old stuff with no ice at all.
Although I did stick my tongue in it.

Maybe one day you can get some new fresh booze Tim.