Opening a new Tiki bar restaurant? What do you look for in a Tiki bar?

So there has been a lot of “that’s not tiki” type talk on TC over the years and I thought this type of thread could help people looking to open a new tiki bar and or restaurant to see what the more true tiki fan looks for.

You may not even be a “more true” Tiki fan at all.

But post what you like, is it the drinks only?
Maybe it’s decor or the food.

It could be a combination of them all.

Does a splash of Indonesian tiki in the place go over like a phone call from your mother in law during sex and ruin the whole thing for you.

Say what you want if you want more party city tiki in your bars ok let us know.

What makes a great tiki bar restaurant?

So I am a tiki snob I have come to find out, or maybe you could say “more true” Tiki fan.

It took years to come to this realization, when I started in the TC tiki group well more a local group than that at first.

We used to make fun of the tiki snob, Sven being the top of this list it was fun to poke fun as a group and you get sucked into the BS as you want to fit in.

BUT as I did this tiki thing myself the tiki snob was just a guy that wanted the real deal.
They were against the types of things that helped kill tiki in the 60s and on, that is the day glo painting of tiki the more kitchy types of tiki crap too.

So I came to find out that I was more like Sven in my version of tiki.

For me I like the old places and will cut them slack on the food and the drinks because they are just not going to be around for that long really.
So see them now.

On the other hand new places must have better food and drinks as they don't have the great old tiki décor in most cases so the food and drink becomes more important the focus.

In writing this I see it may be harder than I thought to say what makes a great Tiki bar restaurant.

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-01-22 05:13 ]

Good questions, good thread. My two cents:

Good drinks help a lot. Good food helps a lot. Laid-back people chilling and relaxing and having a good time is essential.
Atmosphere and vibe are very important, and to me, this means having kitschy / idealized / stylized island decor to create a feeling of escapism, and I think Bamboo Ben nails it. Anyone who follows his lead and executes his designs and gets his vision will be the proud owner of a good tiki space.

I always exclude the colorful Clown Tiki stuff though - it's just garish, distracting, and too in-your-face - it screams cluelessness about tiki despite truly being a subset of the tiki landscape. I'm afraid someday someone will work to catalog and document this stuff because of how prevalent it has become, thanks to Party City, Jimmy Buffett, and others. So tiki has unfortunately "devolved" in many places into Clown Tiki. Those modern perceptions are really unfortunate. But it's out there, and it helps us better identify the more vintage styles of Polynesian Pop which are nostalgic and exaggerated depictions of mid-century tropical places. The real deal always makes me go "wow!" when I encounter it.

I'm lucky to have a tiki bar near me which is attached to a legacy Chinese restaurant. The owner gets it. They hit all the high notes for me -- good drinks, good decor, good food, good people, good music, all without douchiness. I meet good people there, and I love that place... Look up Pagoda Chinese Restaurant if you're in town. Really down-home and lovingly created by a family member who really cares about tiki and about presenting a tiki environment. Good stuff.

For me the biggest things is service.
If you're at a tiki place, you want to be chill. Nothing kills the mood faster than a staff that acts like they don't want you there.

2nd would be the general atmosphere. Music*, NO TVs!, low lighting, and general space vibe.

3rd would be the drinks. Make crappy drinks and I'll only visit once, MAYBE twice if the space is amazing.

4th is the specific "tiki-ness", I don't much care for the rainbow Party City tiki garbage, but if EVERYTHING else on the list above was out of the park I'd be able to look past this.
Generally speaking though, if the bar owner hasn't done their homework on the actual "tiki" in tiki, chances are good that they're phoning it in everywhere else as well.
I tend to like things low-key, but I'd be down for something amazing and over-the-top themey if the drinks and vibe are good.

Caveat- after all the above, let me say that I'm a hermit, and it's going to take a hell of a lot to get me out of the house to begin with. LOL

*Music- I'm good with classic exotica, old school reggae/mento/ska/calypso, old school surf, or even some newer stuff.
I don't much care for some of the low-brow modern cross-over stuff though. And while I like rockabilly on it's own, I DON'T care for it in tiki settings at all.

[ Edited by: Sandbartender 2019-01-22 06:54 ]

I look for an immersive atmosphere. I want the experience. All of the factors TikiSkip mentions play a role. If one is lacking, the others can make up for it (to an extent). It's a sliding scale.

Cocktails: Great cocktails are nice, but there are a ton of speakeasies and other craft cocktail bars out there doing top-notch drinks. I could go to one of those if all I wanted was a well-crafted drink. I'd prefer tiki bars that serve top-notch drinks, but if they're merely average, I'll tolerate that. I've gotten pretty good at making palatable drinks in the Lagoon of Mystery, but there's something about going Someplace Else to unwind and have a cocktail that's appealing.

Is the atmosphere immersive? This is a big one, simply because eye candy is the first thing you're going to take in. Going cheap on the decor (because decking out a tiki bar properly is a costly undertaking) undercuts the entire experience. Latitude 29 borders on tiki lite for me, for instance. The Bum's got some nice pieces in there, and from Tiki Central I know the provenance and artist of many of them and appreciate the support he's shown for the artists in the tiki community. But it's still spare decor compared to many places, and that's a concession to the fact that the vast majority of his clientele are just going to wander in off the street, no knowing tiki from Toledo. He's got great cocktails and a friendly, patient staff, so that makes up for a lot.

A welcoming, attentive staff can overcome most other shortcomings (again, to an extent). But this is true for any bar, or any service industry operation. My experience with the late, un-lamented Pilikia is a case in point. The decor was pretty impressive, if off-the-shelf, and the cocktails merely average. But the staff was utterly indifferent to my presence and bordered on annoyed with my questions. I didn't need that, and cut my visit short. Contrast that with the fantastic receptions I've gotten at Hale Pele and Lei Low. They made me feel welcome and really engaged me with conversation even when they were busy. They made me feel important and the focus of their attention. You get a LOT of mileage out of that kind of customer service.

Music is a big one. I'm not a purist, but damn if rap, 80s pop or 70s guitar rock (I'm looking at you, Alibi!) can really spoil the illusion. Exotica's always nice, but didn't exist for the first 15 or so years tiki bars existed. I look favorably on bossa nova, calypso, surf, classic reggae, cool jazz, select lounge... Is it period-appropriate, even if modern? Is it going to break the spell of suspended disbelief? Music shouldn't be so loud that it intrudes on conversation, but not so soft that it doesn't contribute to the atmosphere. And while we're at it, can I just rant a moment about modern restaurants that are built as echo chambers with high ceilings and hard surfaces? I understand studies have shown that such noisy environs increase stress in patrons, resulting in their drinking and eating more quickly, but every time I've eaten in one of these places, it's been the last visit for me. Tiki bars should absolutely take acoustics in mind when designed, with odd angles and irregular surfaces to break up echoing sound. They don't have to be quiet places, but the noise should be organic, not amplified by the building.

The Wife likes to tease me about being a "tiki purist." I always laugh, because I'm hardly that. Some folks here would consider me a heretic. I'm a writer by profession, and often see new, would-be writers starting out who reject the idea of "rules of writing" because their creative genius won't be constrained by convention. Yeah, and more often than not their written work is pretentious crap. Writers successfully break the "rules" all the time, but these are experienced writers, who know and understand said rules, who disregard or break them for specific effect. I look at tiki the same way. Pirates and flamingos are fine, just as long as those elements don't constitute the totality of tiki in one's tiki bar. Like the Beachbum points out in Potions of the Caribbean, that region had an outsized influence on the evolution of tiki back in the day. Any time someone argues there's no place for flamingos in a tiki bar, because flamingos aren't native to the South Pacific, I ask if rum should be banned as well. A lot of the rules are wholly arbitrary, but they've gained consensus for a reason and should be understood and acknowledged before being tweaked or ignored. Any pop culture movement that gets bogged down to the point where innovation and creativity is no longer possible will stagnate and die. I don't think any of us want that.

“Is the atmosphere immersive? This is a big one”

This is kinda what started me to post this thread.
I go to the new tiki bars and try to sell em lights and even some old Kahiki stuff for the new joints.

MOST of the time it is no where near worth the trouble that it is to work with new bar owners, they are cheap, like beyond cheap.

I do have to pay money to make these lights and do buy the Kahiki stuff I have, in EVERY case I would make way more on eBay.

But the cheap part in them makes them go to Indonesian tiki, many times this kills it for me.
They say they are going to change and work in better stuff later, but how does that work?
The places end up having no identity but they all want to have "real" craft Cocktails with homemade syrups.
I relate Real tiki drinks to real tiki bar lovers, do people who are ok with tiki lite really care about real tiki drinks?

So as they try to please everybody they really don't hit the mark with anyone.

I have seen where the bar owner who is not really into tiki gets hooked up with a bartender who is into tiki and it's the bartender that wants to become a star in your bar on your dime.
They love to say "I made came up with all the drinks on their menu"

These places would do well in a beach location I think, but is their version of tiki enough to do well everywhere.

Tiki lite is going out of business everywhere, Trader Vics, Ty's tiki bistro here and more.

“Latitude 29 borders on tiki lite for me”

Wow! I would not give that place that grade but then I have not been there.
The pics make it look great, but then I always tell people to get Bosco's or Tiki Diablo tiki for their joints so I may be Bias.

I say this because Bosco's or Tiki Diablo look good and they will hold some value if you do go out some day.
At some point in time you will sell or close the place.

This is what I call Indonesian tiki it must be CHEAP....

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-01-22 19:10 ]

It's not a Tiki bar with out Tikis.

True.
But do you call the masks above tiki?

Are the plastic Party city versions of tiki a style you would want in a tiki bar you want to go to?

How far away from a great hand carved tiki like the ones you and Bosco, or Tiki Diablo, Crazy Al etc. is ok?

On 2019-01-22 16:06, tikiskip wrote:
“Latitude 29 borders on tiki lite for me”

Wow! I would not give that place that grade but then I have not been there.
The pics make it look great, but then I always tell people to get Bosco's or Tiki Diablo tiki for their joints so I may be Bias.

I say this because Bosco's or Tiki Diablo look good and they will hold some value if you do go out some day.
At some point in time you will sell or close the place.
[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-01-22 19:10 ]

That does come off as a little harsh, doesn't it? The Bosko and Tiki Diablo work is legit. The place is clean and orderly. It has none of the layered clutter effect many associate with the top tiki bars. There aren't any Indonesian tikis in there. The table we were seated at had two Tiki Room Drummers above us. The Beachbum didn't try to go cheap with Lat 29, and I apologize to him and anyone else if I implied that.

But the decor is somewhat spare in comparison to other locations. It's also bright, as one wall is full of windows looking out onto a courtyard. The logistics and lease probably dictate all of this. As I said above, the vast majority of their clientele are not going to be tiki folk. Lots of clutter, it'd be far easier for things to walk off. Plus, any bar is only as good as its lease--once the current terms expire, they may well lose the space. The French Quarter has a lot of turnover in the businesses there, and it's not always because of bad management. Keeping the TIPSY factor modest makes it easier to pack up and relocate if/when that day comes. I don't know that's the thinking behind the current design, but it makes sense from what we saw. While there we witnessed several large parties wander in and take over the bar, and they were clueless about tiki--so much so that our waitress apologized to us because they were taking up all her time, needing her to explain the cocktails to them, etc. In the end, I'm not sure those groups could tell the difference between a Ponchatrain Pearl Diver and a hand grenade from Bourbon Street (beyond the fact that Lat 29 smells a whole lot better).

For us, the immersive experience was lacking, but the quality of the drinks and food, and friendliness of the staff (they did speak fluent tiki) were positives. There are several glass cabinets with historical tiki artifacts--mugs, ash trays, bottles, etc.--that were cool, and the bas relief map behind the bar is great. There are a lot of individual touches that are legit. I just don't feel that everything, taken as a whole, reaches critical mass if that makes any sense. I certainly wouldn't ever discourage anyone from going, but there are quite a few tiki bars I rather revisit before getting back to Lat 29 (for the record, we ended up staying at Lat 29 far longer than planned, so we didn't have time afterward to check out Tiki Tolteca, thus I have no comparison of New Orleans' two tiki establishments to offer. I guess that means Lat 29 is doing something right...)

"That does come off as a little harsh, doesn't it?"

Yeah I'm sure they would not have liked that one.
And for me it looks like they hit all the marks for a great tiki bar restaurant,Latitude 29 has none of my tiki items and I have in no way benefitted from them in anyway for the record, and have no other reason to support them FYI.

But one thing to think of I don't know if a Kahiki like place would even be allowed to open these days what with all the flammable's and even health code wise.

Think about cleaning the Kahiki, those lights way up high collecting dust and heck bugs.
In one of my Kahiki video's you can see a Cockroach walking on a light I was focused on.

Side note EVERY restaurant and bar has roaches, Now they might have them under control at from time to time.
But the cleanest roach free place will have roaches brought in with the first stock delivery and if not then even sooner with your first customer or even that worker next to you.
Roaches ride in on these things, they are in the boxes and on people, think of where some people live, Nice house, crappy apt, Homeless shelter, under a bridge etc. and a pocket or purse is a good place for a roach to thrive really.

I talked to our pest control guy, and all that makes sense too as roaches like the syrups and even the glue from the stock.

Now since they also like to live in cracks and crevasses a tiki bar is custom made for roaches, it is roach Shangri-La.

Landlords know these things and at times won't even let a restaurant in their for rent spots.

In your lease for a restaurant there is a requirement for monthly pest control more times than not.

My restaurant never had any write up for pests in the 10.5 years I owned it but a few times we did see pests and get busy spaying on our own and called the professional pest guy for a extra visit, other wise he came monthly.

So all this makes tiki lite a bit more attractive to the new tiki bar starter that and the lower cost of décor.

That I do understand.

"Atmosphere and vibe are very important, and to me, this means having kitschy / idealized / stylized island decor to create a feeling of escapism, and I think Bamboo Ben nails it."

Many times it is just a idea of the meaning of words, like I would not call Bens work kitschy but would use that as a word for Party City stuff.
Would not really want that word tied to my work.

But it was said in line with he does great work so we know it's just a difference of word definition's.

Was once thinking of opening a tiki Restaurant bar myself (aren't we all)and did talk to Ben about a build out long ago.
So I do agree he does great work.
Again I have not sold lights to Ben and have no reason to support him other than fact.

Remember the person looking at this may not be as knowledgeable on this whole tiki thing as a long time TC person might be.

I've never been a big fan of "kitsch" being so liberally applied to all things tiki. To me, that indicates things that are 1) of poor quality and 2) poor taste displayed or celebrated out of a sense of irony. I don't think any of us look at a Bosko original or the Mai Kai and so, "Wow! That's so shitty, it's great!" Most of us appreciate the artistry and effort that goes into these pieces and larger builds, and how that contributes to the elements of escapism. Sure, there are some individual pieces that have an intentionally silly sensibility and/or self awareness to them that would qualify as kitsch, but those are outliers.

Kitsch always sounds defensive, like, "Yes, I have a lot of tiki stuff, but I know it's tasteless and tacky, so that makes it okay." I do not yet have any Boskos, Tiki Diablos or custom lights in my place, but I guarantee when I shell out $XXX for them, it won't be because I think they're kitschy.

The funny thing is we are talking about a fantasy version of Hawaii or Polynesia and saying some versions are not real enough for a good tiki bar.

So the fake tiki is not good enough for my fake Hawaii or Polynesia tiki bar.
It's so clear.

But then most TC people get it.

Newbies and new bar starters don't many times.

Yes, there is a certain degree of nuance involved! Interestingly enough, The Wife and I did DNA tests somewhat recently. Mine was disappointing, because I'm almost entirely Central European in ancestry, despite family stories that there was Native American ancestry in our family tree (this result came as no surprise, as there had been a few hints that it was a bogus claim prior to the test). The Wife, however, turned out to have a far more interesting lineage than the Czech/Scott ancestry she'd been told (she looks the part, classic fair-skinned Czech blonde). In addition to DNA cues from all over Europe, she had significant markers from Paupau New Guinea! Turns out her family did know about a dark-skinned ancestor nobody spoke about because scandal, etc. We're learning more about Melanesian cultures and plan to feature more New Guinea masks and other elements in the bar than we would've otherwise. Fascinating stuff, to say the least.

By “kitschy” I meant “stylized and fake Polynesian” in the sense we know tiki is only a depiction of reality. Ben nails the look by depicting (and exceeding) much of what was created in tiki establishments in the mid-20th century.

I understand there were mid-century “tiki” venues which were sparsely decorated with poly pop stuff - Lobster House in my city is an example of that from photos I have seen, and from one person I spoke with who remembers it. There were carved tiki’s along with other nautical stuff, plus other bric-a-brac.

[ Edited by: AceExplorer 2019-01-24 12:08 ]

Now a word from the resident ignoramus...

I'm not fully up to snuff on what makes a good cocktail vs. an okay cocktail, and good service is always better than bad service. What really makes a Tiki bar for me is atmosphere, and more than that, some kind of compelling hook.

A Tiki bar with a well-crafted, well-executed escapist atmosphere is good. I want to go to these bars because they're beautiful, intriguing spaces that feel out of the ordinary. Personally, I prefer lush, jungly aesthetics with lots of (fake) tropical flowers and water. That is a good baseline. What separates out the great from the good is that they have a hook, a thing, a catch, a gimmick... Something going on that catapults them into being truly extraordinary.

Last summer, my wife and I were in Vancouver and went to the Shameful Tiki Room twice. Our favourite of the two nights had their Wednesday hula show. It's a beautiful bar, and the show was the added hook to really make it something out there. My favourite "real" Tiki bar so far is the Sip n' Dip, which probably falls short of many people's ideal in terms of drinks, service, and even decor. But it has live mermaids! My favourite "fake" Tiki bars are Disney's... My favourite Tiki attraction anywhere of all time is the Enchanted Tiki Room (does it count as a bar if I'm drinking a Dole Float?). It's built completely around the concept of providing a charming, enchanting, extraordinary show. That translates over to Trader Sam's, where the hook is all the Disney references. If, in some hypothetical future Disneyland, they were able to combine Trader Sam's and the Enchanted Tiki Room into a single entity, that would be perfect. Maybe that's influencing my approach: I want a Tiki bar that is a fully immersive themed experience.

I don't have a rule as to what counts for a proper hook... The examples I gave so far were a hula show, live mermaids, animatronic singing birds and flowers, and Disney-themed tchotchkes and special effects. The hook could be performance-based, technological, or architectural, or thematic, or whatever. I've joked to friends that if I started a Tiki bar, I'd want it to be King Kong-themed and put this ride in it somehow.

On 2019-01-24 05:09, tikiskip wrote:

...

But one thing to think of I don't know if a Kahiki like place would even be allowed to open these days what with all the flammable's and even health code wise.

Think about cleaning the Kahiki, those lights way up high collecting dust and heck bugs.
In one of my Kahiki video's you can see a Cockroach walking on a light I was focused on.

Side note EVERY restaurant and bar has roaches, Now they might have them under control at from time to time.
But the cleanest roach free place will have roaches brought in with the first stock delivery and if not then even sooner with your first customer or even that worker next to you.
Roaches ride in on these things, they are in the boxes and on people, think of where some people live, Nice house, crappy apt, Homeless shelter, under a bridge etc. and a pocket or purse is a good place for a roach to thrive really.

I talked to our pest control guy, and all that makes sense too as roaches like the syrups and even the glue from the stock.

Now since they also like to live in cracks and crevasses a tiki bar is custom made for roaches, it is roach Shangri-La.

Landlords know these things and at times won't even let a restaurant in their for rent spots.

...

So all this makes tiki lite a bit more attractive to the new tiki bar starter that and the lower cost of décor.

That I do understand.

You're dead right about that, Skip! I wonder if that's why so many of the newer TIKI tiki bars don't serve food? Helps cut down on the pest control and ease things with landlords?
It certainly has to cut down on initial investment and build-out costs, as well as ongoing inventory cost and wastage.

Back in the day I worked at a Chinese restaurant, and the owners were really good about bugs- but with all that frying/etc it was a pretty ongoing battle.
I loved working that bar though. Tiny service bar, and since I was the only one of the entire staff that knew how to mix a drink I became the de facto bar manager-
IN addition to waiting tables AND delivering when our second cook was too busy in the kitchen. LOL

EnchantedTikiGoth you almost did not even mention the food or drinks, so for you that's not a big deal and that's fine but we do need to remember these bars need to sell to live.
While on the other hand most of the new bars here that I have seen fall WAY short of having a hook.

AND they are really not even close to "a well-crafted, well-executed escapist atmosphere"
Tiki Ti is so small yet the place is way cool, they also have MANY hooks as in great drinks and even cat calls when your order some drinks.

Man it wakes the place up!

Where we go not tiki, but the regular bartender is whipping talk up doing "who did that one song" type questions and it gets everybody at the bar talking.
Now when he's not there the other guy gets you your drink and is gone, no fun, no talk.

THEN he wonders why nobody comes in when he works.
That is EVERY bartender I have seen at the new tiki joints here.

"I wonder if that's why so many of the newer TIKI tiki bars don't serve food?"
Well by law here they have to have some kind of food, guess chips would do but the new tiki joints have a kitchen and they serve stuff that is like the food stoners used to make when high in high school.

"DUDE, what about a peanut butter with pineapple soaked in rum AND shrimp sandwich"

The one I went to had a kitchen and I thought they had bought used equipment but the guy said it was new they just had a party the other night and did not clean up after.

They just are not professional, they cater to their friends and F%^k the rest.

Hate to see them racing to a brick wall but tried to tell the one guys near me and they don't want to hear it you become the bad guy.
Really wanted them to last and miss them a lot.

Would tell them to stop talking to us and see what the people who just came in wanted all the time.

People would have MUCH rather sat at the bar at Kahiki that the not so great bartender was at than the better bartenders bar Cuz the not so great bartender was FUN!

Somebody loses a lot of money when these places go out and I hate to see that.
The people who drove it into the ground just trot off to the next place they proceed to drive into the ground.

That all does sound harsh, sorry.

But I have walked the walk as in I grew up in a family that had four diner type places and I even owned the last one for 10.5 years.
Adding the point 5 sounds funny but on the bad days a day can feel like a year so every day you lasted in the restaurant biz is like a badge of honor.

We always did well and made money and that is the publics vote saying you are good and the average check was 5 or 6 bucks in 2004 so that made it even harder.
You could eat two days in our place for what that "Hand Crafted Cocktail" is costing you we also made our food with our hands.

But it's hard to keep doing good every day as many times your help works against you.
Your dishwasher might be in the walk-in drunk in the middle of lunch sitting on a milk crate trying to "stay woked up", the new waitress might tell people "your food will be here soon" only to hear the customer say "You have not even taken our order" all true.

A homeless man may come in at the height of lunch hour trying to sell shoes from the trash to the people sitting down or maybe to shoot drugs in your bathroom before you can see them rush in.
If they are nice they give you small problems like pooping or pissing on your door to clean up.

Our places did not have booze and were all small, this in a way can be even harder as our problem was not keeping people in the place drinking but trying to get them to eat quick and leave.

One day I snuck out the side door and got in the back of the line to get in and shouted "hurry up and eat we need a seat" as if I was a customer they all laughed.
I would crank Van Halen's Eruption song to drive people out.
We had a disco ball in the dining room I would turn on to keep people from reading when we were really packed as the light would fly across the pages making reading hard.

Also the fast paced downtown lunch crowd had to be in and out in thirty minuets so it was very fast paced and many workers you would hire could not keep up.

But since we started in 1942 most of our customers were regulars and that helps as regulars understand when you have problems you will fix them soon.

The guy who bought my place is doing WAY less business than we did and has to go out soon I'm sure.

I really miss it.

Good luck new tiki bar owner.

Eruption Guitar Solo--Eddie Van Halen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_lwocmL9dQ

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-01-27 06:45 ]

A tiki bar should be open 7 days a week, for us poor souls who work thru the weekend and have Mon and Tue off. I'm looking at you, Tiki Ti!

C'mon, aren't we in a 24/7 global economy now? Sunday is my Friday, but Tiki Ti is closed Sun-Tue. Haven't been in ages. And Pacific Seas in Clifton's is only THREE nights a week...

[ Edited by: MrFab 2019-01-27 10:19 ]

On 2019-01-26 13:05, tikiskip wrote:
EnchantedTikiGoth you almost did not even mention the food or drinks, so for you that's not a big deal and that's fine but we do need to remember these bars need to sell to live.
While on the other hand most of the new bars here that I have seen fall WAY short of having a hook.

AND they are really not even close to "a well-crafted, well-executed escapist atmosphere"
Tiki Ti is so small yet the place is way cool, they also have MANY hooks as in great drinks and even cat calls when your order some drinks.

Tiki Ti has historical cachet, so I still want to give it a go. But otherwise, yes, you can probably gauge my interest in Tiki-Lite places.

For me, what a Tiki bar is selling isn't food or drinks. Those are what a Tiki bar HAS but not what a Tiki bar IS. For me, a Tiki bar is selling the themed experience. Kind of like Disney... Disney isn't selling rides, since I can go on roller coasters and ghost trains anywhere. Disney is selling amazingly crafted, beautiful, escapist themed experiences. A Tiki-Lite place COULD interest me if it is deliberately creating a mid-century themed experience, like a SHAG painting come to life, but if it's just a slick modern bar with some palm tree wallpaper then I'm indifferent even if the craft cocktails and pupu platters are really good.

The Wife and I have learned that most bars leave us feeling "meh." The new ones around here have that high ceiling, concrete floor aesthetic, which means they're so loud you can't hear anyone talk and a headache isn't too far off. Tiki bars are the opposite. Even loud ones have irregular, textured surfaces that break up the sound before it becomes unbearable. We have a great time with the whole immersion effect. Trader Sam's was mentioned above. We visited Grog Grotto last year. The drinks were okay. They were a little too sweet, bordering on boat drink territory, because most visitors didn't know tiki from taki and expected everything to be super fruity and sweet. But the immersive theatricality of the place won us over. The bartenders, er, "Skippers," didn't know squat about tiki (one had no idea what the Mai Kai was) but they were witty and entertaining and put on a show. Every good bar needs a distinct identity. Shameful Tiki Room has theirs with the hula and burlesque performances. The Mai Kai is legendary for its hugeness and Polynesian dance shows. Sip N Dip has mermaids. Hale Pele has more fire per drink than anyone else. Tiki bars are inherently fun. Other bars can be fun, but I think tiki is predisposed for fun.

“A tiki bar should be open 7 days a week”
Do you work 7 days a week?
A bar owner that is not at the bar when it is open is going to lose money, plus with the Tiki Ti guys there are only two bartenders right?
It's on the dollar bill "In god we trust" if god is not bartending you can't really trust.

We were open only five days a week but I was at the restaurant every day cleaning making soups ect.
You need those days off to do other things at your business, and heck relax.

“Tiki Ti has historical cachet, so I still want to give it a go.”
Tiki Ti for me is one of the top/best tiki bars FYI, go see it.

“Disney isn't selling rides”
Disney sells EVERYTHING, man with the ton o cash they got they should create great environments.
Disney will start charging for the air you breathe once they figure out how to do it.

But it is good that an entity is still out there that has a full blown tiki environment.

One of the new places I went to in the kitchen was this small ice machine like the smallest I think you can buy for commercial.

And I said "Oooo that's going to hurt you" the one guy said "yeah I was not here when they got that" the "other said "it should be ok" That's it.

Man they did not ask one question after that, knowing I had a place for ten years.

What they would have heard had they asked was...
An ice machine makes ice way slower in the summer due to the heat AND you need more ice in the summer.
If they are lucky and don't do much business it may be enough ice.

But if they do need lots o ice the machine will work the piss out of it's self and break down often as well.
They also need to be cleaned more and the evaporator coil blown out often as they are always running.
You tube can show you how to clean your ice machine it will save you lots of money on repair bills and you will have clean ice.
Did you know there is such a thing as "cold mold" it's black and gross and in most ice machines in restaurants bars and can make you sick.

Ice machines put out lots of heat so we would fill our ice bins in the evening when closed in the summer so the machine would run at night and heat up the place when we were not there.
Now in the winter you want it to heat up the place so you fill the bins in the morning when you get there so the ice machine does heat up the place.

Also ask the guys who work on fix equipment what to buy they know as they fix all brands and know the stuff that works and the stuff that sucks.
Again you tube has clips on good and bad equipment check there and you will see why Samsung washing machines suck and Samsung knows about the problem they build into their stuff.

And that's just ice machine info.

Ask people who are or were in the business many questions they can save you tons of time and money sometimes.

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-01-28 05:08 ]

Ok so back to the tiki part, I don't like most of Yma Sumacs songs.
I guess Yma Sumacs - Mambo is ok and it does fit well in the tiki bar but damn on Friday or Saturday night I just don't want to be put to sleep with Quiet Village.

When I'm alone or just kicking back in a tiki bar, ok that works.

Sooo for me surf music is cool, I used to play Thin Lizzy just to piss everybody off even Buffet once only to find my Buffet cd was broken after the party, don't know who did that.

If you think about it you hear a lot of complaints on TC about the music in tiki bars don't even remember the music at Tiki Ti when I was there maybe there was none.
It was not needed at the time.

The Kahiki played the same stuff you would get to know the songs and they had an ok band as well that was more of a steel drum thing, they were the Tropics island band.
Could not find them on YouTube.

So who drinks, like really drinks!
Young people, old people like the true tiki fans don't really drink as much at least not when they know a bill is commin, the bar owner is going cater to the drinking crowd it only makes sense and money.

At my place we would play Dean Martin type slow stuff on rainy days and faster music on say Fridays.
The slow music grinded the place to a crawl and the fast music picked the place up,
People worked faster, people ate faster, and we made more money.
Plus we were not all dragging around half asleep.

Does slow music make you drink slower?

On 2019-01-31 06:55, tikiskip wrote:
Ok so back to the tiki part, I don't like most of Yma Sumacs songs.
I guess Yma Sumacs - Mambo is ok and it does fit well in the tiki bar but damn on Friday or Saturday night I just don't want to be put to sleep with Quiet Village.

...

I tend to like her best in very small doses. When she's mixed in with other exotica it's fine, but I personally think she gets a bit shrill when you're listening to a whole
album of just her.

On 2019-01-31 06:55, tikiskip wrote:

At my place we would play Dean Martin type slow stuff on rainy days and faster music on say Fridays.
The slow music grinded the place to a crawl and the fast music picked the place up,
People worked faster, people ate faster, and we made more money.
Plus we were not all dragging around half asleep.

Does slow music make you drink slower?

I donno. I've hosted a few ragers that were set to classic Deano and Frank. That said, it was more private entertaining than public spaces.

I think a lot of it depends on the crowd and what they are expecting. Like being in a college dive bar blasting alt-rock and all of a sudden some idiot puts a slow country ballad on the jukebox.
It's like dropping an iron bar in a church. Or the opposite situation, which will yield a similar result.

Mellow bars, mellow crowd need mellow tunes. A jumping place needs jumping music.

As for the food thing, I think it's a matter of economics. Most of the new tiki bars are opening in small spaces to control costs. A kitchen and kitchen staff means a lot more overhead, and there's not a lot of margin in food service. Alcohol, there's where the profit is. Some sell bar food only. Others not even that. Not having to worry about 51 percent of revenue coming from non-alcohol sales (I think that's what it is here in Texas) makes a difference for small spaces. I'm not crazy enough to plan on opening my own space--I can suffer vicariously via my friends who are trying to do that!

Circling back around to music, Exotica didn't exist as a musical genre until the mid- to late-50s when it blew up. Before that, Donn and Vic were playing something else. I'd guess Sinatra, Martin and other lounge-type stuff, along with hapa haole. Which is cool with me, as it's period and escapist. I personally love steel drum music, but I'll cop to being a snob in this area: I can't stand the compilation CDs that are chok full of steel band covers of Buffett, the Eagles, Pina Colada song, etc. That's the music equivalent of boat drinks. I like original compositions/performances from Trinidad and elsewhere. The trouble is finding recordings with good sound quality. I got one double CD a few months back with all original music and was excited--until I listened to it. Turned out to be essentially smooth jazz with steel drums. If that's not bad enough, it was over-produced with synthesizers, electric guitars and sax solos. Not what I wanted. At all.

And while this is treading on dangerous ground, I also like Jimmy Buffett, although I'm more of a "First Church of Buffett, Orthodox" kind of guy, in that I prefer his earlier, Key West stuff, before that one particular song took over his career and he started tailoring his output to the Margaritaville audience. But a commercial tiki bar would be treading on thin ice with his stuff. Camel nose in the tent flap and all of that.

I'm surprised there's not more discussion of Hawaiian slack-key guitar and Hawaiian identity music like that done by the Brothers Cazimero. Heck, even Jawaiian/Island Reggae is growing in popularity and could find a valid place in tiki for those put off by more traditional Jamaican reggae. Different strokes and all that.

I also kinda agree on Yma Sumac. The mambo album is pretty great, but much of her catalogue seems an excuse just to show off her range with less regard to the actual music or listenability. She has her place, but is best used sparingly.

"but much of her catalogue seems an excuse just to show off her range with less regard to the actual music"

My wife and I call this being too "star search like" after the show Star search as the contestants would often do this.

"And while this is treading on dangerous ground, I also like Jimmy Buffett'
I don't mind Buffet and went to his restaurant here once.
It was not great, but then I have seen where people go to a tiki bar that really is as bad or close to as bad and say they liked the tiki bar.

This place may have the same BS décor but it's ok and Cheeseburger in paradise is not is not?

I have nothing against the bad tiki bars I'm just not going to them as I don't go to Cheeseburger in paradise.
Too bad as I have been known to drink a bit, and I'm not talking about drinking that Polynesian drink PABST.

Sandbartender you are closer to right about the music than I but poi is a food of the islands and were not going to eat that.
Or even Kava and we are not about to get a group to chew Kava root spit it in a bowl and wait few hours and drink it, Yuk.

Need to find a middle ground so the bar owner can make money.

And who knows what we like might be all wrong, Taboo cove went out in Vegas and it was cool.
That and lots o Trader Vic's as well.

The irony is that Buffett sold his interest in the Cheeseburger in Paradise chain because sales have been struggling for years now. There's a huge new Margaritaville restaurant in San Antonio, and The Wife and kids taunt me about going there every time we pass it. I don't begrudge the man his success, because he seems like a genuinely nice fellow, but damn, the commercialization's way over the top. I mean, he doesn't have to agree to every venture his accountants put before him, does he?

Tangentially, I read an article the other day how cruise lines are hiring celebrity chefs and bartenders to revamp their offerings, elevate boat drinks to craft cocktails and the like. I'll believe it when I see it, but it's nice that someone's at least giving lip service to quality over quantity. Last month we went to a new (revamped) bar in town. It wasn't a speakeasy, but they had the hipster mustaches and arm garters going, right? Started out promising, but they only had like six cocktails on their menu, Manhattan, Martini, Gimlet, Martinez, etc. I almost thought it was a joke. I wanted a Jungle Bird but they didn't have pineapple. They offered to make me a Mai Tai but I thought "Oh, no. You're not gonna catch me in that trap." I finally got an off-menu Negroni. It wasn't bad, but damn, it shouldn't take a court order to get relatively common cocktails at a place billing itself as a craft cocktail bar. Which has nothing really to do with opening a new tiki bar, but let an old man have his rants. :)

On 2019-01-31 10:47, Prikli Pear wrote:
I also kinda agree on Yma Sumac. The mambo album is pretty great, but much of her catalogue seems an excuse just to show off her range with less regard to the actual music or listenability. She has her place, but is best used sparingly.

When I first DJed at Trader Vic's, the only instruction I was given was "No Yma Sumac!!!". :D

Ha!
That's a good story, wonder if that was a companywide rule or just that one store.
People would openly complain about some of the music I played, like James Brown Santa Claus go straight to the ghetto.

Was looking up David Burke and he does some really new and cool stuff.
Like bacon on a clothes line.

So like where is that kind of innovation as far as tiki places go?
If you are more than a bartender, and even higher than a great cocktail maker, a mixologist
start making that new Mai tai.

The tiki snob will hate it but it is the kind of hook that will bring in the other customers you need everybody want to try that "new" thing that's why they come out with new potato chip flavors every year.

Mai Tai milkshake? Mai Tai shots? the flaming Krakatoa?
That bacon on a clothes line is candied bacon on a string that doubles the price.

Just making syrups and throwing a Luxardo Maraschino cherry in your drinks is nice but not truly innovative.

I like the term "intoxologist"
But then I feel that you can't truly be a mixologists if you have not at least tended bar for at least a few years.

"some mixologists cannot make a balanced cocktail. That’s okay! Many bartenders are not comfortable publicly presenting the protein disciplines of egg and sugar in a Pisco Sour to a room of 100 but can shake one at the end of an eleven-hour shift so good it makes you cry for another. Both have a fundamental place in this industry.” – Eden Laurin, managing partner, The Violet Hour, Chicago"

Bacon on a clothes line.....

I got it!
Have finally found out why I'm so jaded and can't get excited over these new tiki lite bars.

It's the Kahiki fault or even the Mai Kai and the Tiki Ti.

They SPOILED me, I've been to them all and your efforts are not enough new tiki bar.
It's not your fault really I want them back, your place may as well be a Starbucks with a tiki in them.

The people who rave about these places have not been to the real deal or they are lying to themselves and you.

And here is the key, MYSTERY and strange new things.

The first tiki bars gave us new foods we never ate and crazy décor we had never seen.
TV and computers movies did not show us all the things in these places, they were new to us.
Nooks and crannies to go around and find new masks, spears, huge palm trees!
It would rain and thunder!

Tiki maddens in skimpy clothes, new drinks, "What is this new Drink the Mai Tai?"

You do have the tiki, you do have a few things on the walls, and you do have the high price drinks, but no new drinks really.

Some places drinks are the same price as the Mai Kai, but the Mai Kai has a FLOOR SHOW!

Where's the drink in a Pineapple?

I found this out by watching this guy.
Do have to apologize to you new tiki bar, it's not you, It's me.
So badly want to go to a Heston tiki bar!

Bet you can't watch this and smile and laugh out loud.
hestons fantastical food lunch box s01e06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrPZHERyvqI

On 2019-02-16 05:09, tikiskip wrote:

So badly want to go to a Heston tiki bar!

Bet you can't watch this and smile and laugh out loud.
hestons fantastical food lunch box s01e06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrPZHERyvqI

Dammit, Skip! I thought you were linking to a clip of Charlton Heston in a Tiki bar, not some British cooking-show git wearing NHS glasses...:wink:

Ha!
Sorry but that guy is so creative!

It's that "wait till they see this stuff" thing that he creates.
That's what these new "mixologist" need to bring to the bar, wonder, new.

You make your own syrups, so what, make up your own new different syrups and new drinks.
The high prices for these drinks demand more than your best Mai Tai.

How about a Mai Tai with mint foam or mint dry ice smoke, mint bubbles?
You need the traditional as well but man bring some wonder to the place.

Here in Ohio we don't have people on vacations and they will come to yer spot at first then be on to the next great thing by next year.

People on vacation will spend extra for food drinks as it is a splurge, a one time thing.

Just ask Tais Tiki, Or Tropical Bistro, both lasted about a year.

Hidden Harbor in Pittsburgh do what you are talking about skip. They have their "Weird Science Wednesday" where they do 'molecular mixology', a term most bartenders hate but is an accurate description of what it is.

And i agree with you there, even of you make your own orgeat, use different orange liqueurs and mix up the rums, if you are following the traditional recipe a mai tai is still a mai tai. Some are going to be better than others depending on the brands used (although that is still subjective) but at the end of the day every bar is still making the exact same drink you SHOULD be able to get at any decent Tiki bar.

I'm sure Hidden Harbor can make you a traditional mai tai but offering a real twist on one but keeping true to the drink itself is definitely something that more bars should be offering.

Man that is great!

In Ohio there are SOOO many new restaurants and old great places that just throwing a tiki in the joint won't do.

Now if you are one of the old classic places you can ride the wave you earned over many years.
But the new guys got to work for it.

I can tell you that I avoid the new hip places and go for the old places that have been around for some time.

Many times the molecular mixology food / drinks are BS and are not that great, But most people will swear that it was the best thing they ever ate so they can brag about the place they went to last weekend.

And heck at least they are working for it.

Our bill at the good ol Windward was $19.00 bucks tonight and I bought Bob a drink, we were there for 3 hours.
That would be two drinks at some of these places and we would be there about 1 hour, Once.

Did you know there was cinnamon in the drink jet pilot from the Mai Kai?
If you have had one you might say "really, I don't taste it, wait I guess maybe".
That is a successful drink and is one of not only my favorite drinks at the Mai Kai but a favorite of many people.

But if your drink tastes like potpourri water or you immediately say wow there is cinnamon in this!

If you take a sip and feel like you have done a shot of Hawaiian Tropic® sun tan lotion for all the Coco Real you have put in the drink.

These drinks are a fail.

You need a blend, ingredients that go well together and one or more ingredient does not stick out and beat you on the head.

Now people will look right at you and say they are good, great even, wait till they leave your place and a bit more of the truth will come out.

Get a focus group tell them you want the bitter truth, don't throw a free party with people who like you and say what do you think of the free drinks I just gave you.

Remember "Portland's only tiki bar, Rhum is no more - Portland Press Herald' after being open only a bit over one year.

People raved about it!
One local tiki group went there and got a free Sea food tower and said "hey, show these guys some love on feedback as those towers are not cheep"

It did not help them to try to buy good reviews.

I bet that it was close to a million bucks to put that place in.

The person who is telling you the things you don't want to hear is often your best friend trying to save you.

Hey one more open question,
Does a Mai Tai need the mint?

If you go to a tiki bar and buy a Mai Tai do you get disappointed if it has no mint or is it not a big deal to you?

My wife who's not a big tiki snob like me thinks it is important, I do too but maybe not as much as her.

So, mint do you need it?

On 2019-02-01 07:01, tikiskip wrote:
If you are more than a bartender, and even higher than a great cocktail maker, a mixologist
start making that new Mai tai.

They're out there, trying. I've been listening to a lot of cocktail-related podcasts, and man, bartenders want to be the one to come up with the new cocktail that creates a sensation. The most recent one is probably the Penicillin, created by Australian Sam Ross in New York circa 2005. It's everywhere now. Look at the ingredients, and you immediately think, "Wow! That looks like a tiki drink!" even though the base spirit is scotch, not rum. And had Ross been working at a tiki bar back then instead of Milk & Honey, it would be. But it wasn't, so folks don't think of it as such.

I've had excellent original cocktails at tiki bars and meh ones. I'm not sure why none of them have taken off. Then again, I'm not entirely clear why anything succeeds or fails--I'd never have guessed that the negroni, of all things, would surge to such popularity in recent years. Sooner or later a tiki cocktail will become a phenomenon, but we probably won't notice until it's already well under way. Goodness knows I'll be the last to know!

On 2019-03-06 07:31, tikiskip wrote:
Did you know there was cinnamon in the drink jet pilot from the Mai Kai?
If you have had one you might say "really, I don't taste it, wait I guess maybe".
That is a successful drink and is one of not only my favorite drinks at the Mai Kai but a favorite of many people.

I think the question isn't "can you taste it," but rather "can you taste its absence"? Some ingredients/flavors aren't apparent on their own, but act as boosters/enhancers or maybe bridges among other flavors present. They don't stand out on their own, but if omitted, you immediately realize something is missing, even if you can't put your finger on what it is.

As for your mint question, I confess I'm not a huge fan of the mai tai. I'll drink them, but there's a long list of cocktails I'd rather drink instead. Whenever I make them, I always make an effort to include the mint sprig. I've understood the aromatic component primes the consumer for the flavors to come--I certainly know that once bruised, that mint scent is inescapable. Maybe it's essential, maybe it's the power of suggestion, or maybe it's just the theatrical nature of the presentation. Tiki's as much about ritual as anything, so I like to include that component, regardless.

On 2019-03-06 12:50, Prikli Pear wrote:

On 2019-03-06 07:31, tikiskip wrote:
Did you know there was cinnamon in the drink jet pilot from the Mai Kai?
If you have had one you might say "really, I don't taste it, wait I guess maybe".
That is a successful drink and is one of not only my favorite drinks at the Mai Kai but a favorite of many people.

I think the question isn't "can you taste it," but rather "can you taste its absence"? Some ingredients/flavors aren't apparent on their own, but act as boosters/enhancers or maybe bridges among other flavors present. They don't stand out on their own, but if omitted, you immediately realize something is missing, even if you can't put your finger on what it is.

As for your mint question, I confess I'm not a huge fan of the mai tai. I'll drink them, but there's a long list of cocktails I'd rather drink instead. Whenever I make them, I always make an effort to include the mint sprig. I've understood the aromatic component primes the consumer for the flavors to come--I certainly know that once bruised, that mint scent is inescapable. Maybe it's essential, maybe it's the power of suggestion, or maybe it's just the theatrical nature of the presentation. Tiki's as much about ritual as anything, so I like to include that component, regardless.

I think you nailed it, Prikli Pear-
I'm one of those guys that can, generally speaking, sit down for a meal and by the end of it suss out exactly what was used in a dish. I've done it tons of times when my wife or son LOVED something we had while dining out.
You can (or at least, I can) pretty accurately also tell when something is off, proportion-wise, or straight up missing.

Can I taste the cinnamon in a Jet Pilot? ABSOLUTELY! I can also very easily tell when there is too much/little/or a weird 'off' syrup or a juice that is too old and starting to oxidize.

On 2019-03-06 07:47, tikiskip wrote:
Hey one more open question,
Does a Mai Tai need the mint?

Yes. In my book it is an essential part of the drink. I thump it on the rim of the glass before I pour the drink, and after a sip or two I generally mash it down into the drink
and give it another crush/muddle with my straw/swizzle. Same way you need the lime shell. The aromatics and oils do things to the rum and orgeat that you just can't get otherwise.

I'm not going to throw a Mai Tai in someone's face if they served me one without the mint/lime, but if I'm making it for myself/wife/guests, you can put hard money on them BOTH being there.

On 2019-01-22 04:55, tikiskip wrote:
So there has been a lot of “that’s not tiki” type talk on TC over the years and I thought this type of thread could help people looking to open a new tiki bar and or restaurant to see what the more true tiki fan looks for.

You may not even be a “more true” Tiki fan at all.

But post what you like, is it the drinks only?
Maybe it’s decor or the food.

It could be a combination of them all.

Does a splash of Indonesian tiki in the place go over like a phone call from your mother in law during sex and ruin the whole thing for you.

Say what you want if you want more party city tiki in your bars ok let us know.

What makes a great tiki bar restaurant?

On 2019-02-16 05:09, tikiskip wrote:
I got it!
Have finally found out why I'm so jaded and can't get excited over these new tiki lite bars.

It's the Kahiki fault or even the Mai Kai and the Tiki Ti.

They SPOILED me, I've been to them all and your efforts are not enough new tiki bar.
It's not your fault really I want them back, your place may as well be a Starbucks with a tiki in them.

I've been thinking about this topic since you started the thread, Skip, and with this latter post of yours I think I can finally kind of articulate my thoughts somewhat.

Where most of the newer tiki bars fall short for me is the hedging of bets. Anywhere from "I personally love tiki but we scaled it back a bit for the people who think tiki is cheesy" to sticking an "Aloha!" sign in a bar that looks like a barn made from reclaimed wood. To me, it all smacks of some level of embarrassment, which means that at its core there is a concept that is not being fully embraced. It's kind of like how I feel when people say a certain song is a "guilty pleasure". You like it so much that you have to apologise for it?

Though many folks are, I am not a stickler or purist. I wouldn't set foot in a Party City tiki bar - however, I'm also not gonna sit somewhere enjoying a good cocktail in a comfortable setting but getting all sniffy cos some good looking tikis are obviously modern Indonesian ones. What I really care about is personality and the thoughtfulness attached to that, which in turn makes it easy for me to relax and have a good time. Two great examples in my area: Kona Club and Longitude. Both built out by Bamboo Ben.

The first time I went to Kona Club, the very first song I heard was by Depeche Mode. LOUD. Some people need All Denny, All Day and get offended by hearing reggae whilst sipping tropical tiki drinks - I am not that person. I bobbed my head along and enjoyed my cocktail and thought, "I love their attitude here. They do their thing." However, I know there are people who won't set foot in the place for the same reason. As a compliment to that, Longitude, until its untimely demise, was my fave bar that wasn't Trader Vic's. It was an adventure themed bar rather than a tiki bar opened by Suzanne Long, who had previously been at Forbidden Island. The menu offerings were all tiki and all fantastic, both food and drink, and I loved Suzanne's vision. However, on multiple occasions I've heard someone say something to the effect of, "Oh yeah, I've been there. It was really good but it wasn't a real tiki bar." One person mentioned that they liked it better as Kon-Tiki because "it's darker and there are finally some tikis in there", whilst readily admitting that the drinks weren't anywhere near as good. But hey - tikis, right?

Obviously, to each their own - my opinion certainly won't be a universal fit and it's not my intent to piss on anyone's personal tastes. I don't necessarily prefer character over standards, but I refuse to let my standards get in the way of being able to appreciate character.

Great points here!

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-03-08 06:01 ]

AND people say they don’t have anything to add to TC well everybody eats and many drink, so you can add to this thread right here.
It could help a misguided new tiki bar find their way.

“I think the question isn't "can you taste it," but rather "can you taste its absence"?”

See now that’s a good point, but then that’s what I meant by a good blend in your ingredients.
Soung asked me what I put in my ham glaze and after I told him he said to add a small bit of Garlic powder, GARLIC POWDER!
In ginger ale, lemon, and candy ginger with a bit of Cayenne pepper Now Garlic powder too.

I do it that way every time now, too much Garlic powder and your FU%k*d, if you taste it you failed.

“generally speaking, sit down for a meal and by the end of it suss out exactly what was used”

I’m not that good at that but ok.
It’s best when you have a hard time knowing what is in something.
And I do put mint and lime in my Mai Tais almost every time.
We grow tons of mint just for that, I bet it may be hard for a commercial tiki bar to get and keep in the place on a day to day basis.
The Tropical Bistro had mint in every Mai Tai I ever got there, and they did not say they were some great fancy place.

“Where most of the newer tiki bars fall short for me is the hedging of bets”

You know I hate the word cultural appropriation, BUT this is kinda how I feel about tiki lite bars.
They steal our fake version of a Polynesian place and water it down misrepresenting it to others who then say “we went to a tiki bar”
I think it is so they can serve handcrafted cool drinks at high prices and become a tiki star Mixologist.

Maybe the tiki bar vision TCers have would not fly with the normal everyday customer these days.

On 2019-03-08 06:02, tikiskip wrote:
You know I hate the word cultural appropriation, BUT this is kinda how I feel about tiki lite bars.
They steal our fake version of a Polynesian place and water it down misrepresenting it to others who then say “we went to a tiki bar”

Whoa, this is a fascinating thought. And kinda meta.

I think it has to do with the owner’s mindset. A real tiki bar should be of true vintage and good repro decor. Music should be similar...there is enough vintage and modern tiki music to last an eternity. Drinks have 8-10 standard variatiions of classic tiki drinks with a few new ones. Sell beer. Sell wine. Just get a few upscale and tiki themed brands...aka longboard lager etc
Maybe have some theme nights and switch up the music some...like classic punk night...latin jazz night...swing & swank night..surf night...jamaican ska...etc

Dont pander to cheesy modern craft cocktail style...but also make sure your mid century tiki poly pop nazis dont scare away ‘normal’ customers either.

Obviously stay away from any modern mainsteam beer signs or anything remotely like that

Have tiki dj’s and the odd surf band now and then...

Have a small outdoor rear patio for ‘getting some air’

Must have nice bartenders with lots of patience to educate the newbs

Have a short cool name like rum shack or banboi hut

On 2019-03-10 19:53, Tiki Roa wrote:
make sure your mid century tiki poly pop nazis dont scare away ‘normal’ customers either.

The Wife and I were discussing this just yesterday (in reference to Kanaloa in Houston and Pilikia in Dallas). A new tiki bar cannot survive and thrive if hard-core tikiphiles are its only clientele. Skip and others have made this point eloquently here many times. BUT those new tiki bars that are wise do not include elements that exclude/repel tikiphiles--inappropriate music, bad drinks, clown tiki, etc.--because tikiphiles are the one willing to travel hundreds of miles to experience the new place, buy the souvenir mugs and generally provide free advertising. Tikiphiles are the evangelicals of the cocktail movement. It's be foolish to dismiss them out of hand.