Origin of tiki monkey

Hello fellow Tikiphiles,

Got a question, Anyone have an idea of where the idea of the tiki monkey (in a requisite fez) come from? It seems to have become ubiquitous in the last few years. Maybe I've not been paying a lot of attention, but it seems every tiki group on pinterest these days has at least a few offerings. See for example:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/536561743097393158/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/801007483705153848/

Thoughts?

Didn't they put a Fez, or some other kind of hat, on monkey's back in the day when there were carnivals? Don't know exactly what they were they called but those guys who played an Accordian and the monkey would dance. Or those toy wind-up monkeys holding cymbals?

And monkeys are not found anywhere in Polynesia so therefore they are not Tiki but people started using them in their imagery because A.) they are cool and B.) because of the tropical/jungle/primitive connection to Tiki. Whether or not Fezzes belong in Tiki culture is a hotly debated topic but if your going to be throwing monkeys into the mix then who cares if they are wearing one?

Well at least that's my thoughts on the matter.

[ Edited by: swizzle 2019-04-26 23:26 ]

"Don't know exactly what they were they called but those guys who played an Accordian and the monkey would dance."

What is Organ grinder Alex.

You like monkeys with fezs?
Check out this guy [Robert] Zerostreets thread.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=35444&forum=18&start=2100&2113
You'll go ape shit.

Take a look at Crested Westwood Tiki Bank Brown in Ooga Mooga.

Wait a minute...

...but I sure am coveting one of GROG's fezzed ape mugs....

In the 60’s a gorilla would swing down to the stage during the floor show at The Tiki’s (Monterey park,Ca) and capture one of the maidens and climb up the volcano with her, fwiw.
Cheers

Remember folks, not everything that comes up on PINTEREST under Tiki IS Tiki. No, monkeys and parrots are not from Polynesia, neither are Fezzes. They are part of the current Tiki Revival pop fringe. If they are multiplying recently, it is a sign of Tiki Devolution: People just going for that "whacky" stuff, because actually delving into the rich artistic history of Tiki and Oceanic Art takes too much time, a keen artistic interest and eye, and can't be done in two mouse clicks.

bigbrotiki wrote:
...monkeys and parrots are not from Polynesia, neither are Fezzes.

Oh great, are you now gonna tell me my framed posters of fez-wearing monkeys drinking martini's are not approved Tiki decor? :wink:

Amateur demolition derby in the parking lot afterward

[ Edited by: Scott McGerik 2019-05-02 17:50 ]

On 2019-05-02 17:31, bigbrotiki wrote:
No, monkeys and parrots are not from Polynesia, neither are Fezzes.

Rum's not from Polynesia, either. :o

On 2019-05-02 19:36, Prikli Pear wrote:

On 2019-05-02 17:31, bigbrotiki wrote:
No, monkeys and parrots are not from Polynesia, neither are Fezzes.

Rum's not from Polynesia, either. :o

Shhhhh! If we ruin the illusion then everything turns into a Starbucks.

And, sadly, that's sort of true. But still....

I'm afraid there is at least one South Pacific island with primates on it.

On 2019-05-02 19:36, Prikli Pear wrote:

On 2019-05-02 17:31, bigbrotiki wrote:
No, monkeys and parrots are not from Polynesia, neither are Fezzes.

Rum's not from Polynesia, either. :o

Cantonese food is not from Polynesia, BUT it is a big part of what the fake version of Polynesia that Don the beachcomber and Trader Vic's, kahiki and other old tiki joints used to create the kinds of places I think of as tiki.

For me that's the gold standard.

What I don't get is how so many, even long time TC members will go to a really weak new tiki bar and go on about how great it is.

Or is that just part of the Tiki Devolution Sven talked about?

Never thought I would see a old Skool TCer take part in the day glo painting of old cool tiki, but that is just about what that is to me.

Are we sooo desperate for ANY new tiki joints that we will endorse whatever comes along.

Yes you can have your own views on what is tiki, But others have the right to say yer cracked as well.

I think it weakens and can even replace what was once seen as a great tiki joint and at some point in time make places like the Mai Kai "not tiki" or tacky to some.
Don the beachcomber and Trader Vic's, kahiki not being "Chic" enough and seen as dirty old restaurants.

I call the new tiki lite bars "Chic-y" bars, or SWAT bars, Starbucks with a tiki.
Will "TIPSY" factor be replaced with how "Hip" is it or is it "Chic"

Just look at what tiki mugs are HOT sellers right now.
They out sell Original old Kahiki first gen Hoffman tiki mugs!

If it's a weak new tiki bar let us know so we won't waste our time driving or taking time out of our vacation to go to a place that for some reason you don't want to say kinda sucks.
Let the fakers go there, me I don't care if they last.

FYI I do have a few fezes in my tiki bar and even a monkey giving the finger.

GREAT!

Good points all! I must admit. While I agree that the tiki monkey in and of itself it NOT tiki, it does seem to have found its self a place in today's version of whatever Tiki has evolved into. Inauspicious and worthy of the title of tiki art, he should take his rightful place among skulls, puffer fish lamps and of course the ubiquitous colored glass globe.

While I don't think of them as tiki in the usual sense, they do convey a certain mystique that tiki offers and thus fit wel. . . as long as we don't get carried away with the spectacle. else before you know it, some bloke has tried to throw disco music into the frey.

Not to mention there is only so much you can do with enchanted beaches, long silent moia, jungle food and life, real life gilligan style huts and lifestyle that work and thousands of differrenting bottles of rum! Ah the call of the distant screaming maiden about to be sacrificed at sundown. The hula dance and of course the old style Lu ale.

Yes, any new diversion to all things tiki are good and just.

It is kind of funny that the millennials seem as totally clueless on the tastes of our fathers as everything it is if they have no inherent mechanism to internal quiet their soul which seems deemed to search eternally for peace and serenity, having rejected the models of their forefathers.

Great thread :lol:

Har!, I never know if that is Good, or Skip yer full o crap.:)

I know that some think it's a bit over dramatic about a bar décor style.

BUT when the Kahiki was at it's end you would hear that it was dirty and some people did not know why one would want to save it.
Go to the Yelp site for the Mai Kai and you will see some locals that say it is a tourist trap and dirty / not good.
So it has already started to happen, the change in what a good tiki bar is.

I really do think that Hukilau saved the Mai Kai.

But we are talking about your homes and or businesses so do as you wish.

Do think of this new tiki bar, How many tiki lite bars have made it?
Tiki lite did not work for Trader Vic's, it also did not work for Tai's tiki here in town I'm sure there are others but you get the idea.

There's no passion, there's no lasting interest, most of the tiki lite bars go out in about one year after everybody has gone to them once or twice.

Would you be mad if a Party City went out in your town?
Party City might get more and better tiki someday would that make you like them hoping Party City will get better?

I don't mind an off tiki thing here or there and the monkey fez thing is ok, but a bar full of cartoon monkeys would not be tiki to me.

One big reason you see so many cartoon Monkeys with fez on them is DISNEY, they promote them, they sell them, and it is an easy sell as Monkeys with a fez on are PG 13.

You won't see a tiki with a big ol wanger hangin out on the shelf at the Disney store.

Just a few reviews of what I call the greatest tiki bars on earth looks like they are not chic.

If I could look up the Kahiki reviews you would see the same thing.

This is one of those once in a lifetime experiences that after you've had it then you don't need it anymore. The menu is dated and the food quality itself it's not that great.

Food doesn't deserve stars, and the building is pretty run down and seems dirty.

Where can I start? Food is not bad! Very dated, leaky, dank, cramped, hot as hell.

2/16/2019
What a RIP OFF!!!!!!! I feel like I just fell for a tourist trap.
This place is all hype. Probably sits 20 people it was hot and musty with a strong smell of cigar.

I dunno - I think sometimes "old school" can go a bit too far.

it's run down and it hasn't been renovated since the 60s & needs a lot of work. I just hope that they get a good Chef in there to fix the menu

On 2019-05-03 12:33, tikiskip wrote:
You won't see a tiki with a big ol wanger hangin out on the shelf at the Disney store.

Don’t underestimate some of our senses of humor, ha!

On 2019-05-03 07:46, whorton wrote:

Not to mention there is only so much you can do with enchanted beaches, long silent moia, jungle food and life, real life gilligan style huts and lifestyle that work and thousands of differrenting bottles of rum! Ah the call of the distant screaming maiden about to be sacrificed at sundown. The hula dance and of course the old style Lu ale.

Yes, any new diversion to all things tiki are good and just.

Yep, just like I said:

On 2019-05-02 17:31, bigbrotiki wrote:

People just going for that "whacky" stuff, because actually delving into the rich artistic history of Tiki and Oceanic Art takes too much time, a keen artistic interest and eye, and can't be done in two mouse clicks.

It's all about new diversions, be they really Tiki or not.

I don't think anybody is trying on purpose to kill tiki off with whacky versions of it.
It's just a person making art or a thing to sell.

Did hear recently that Boskos work was too costly to use in their bar as I recommended him.
Indonesian tiki won out but TCers said the place looked great so no harm there I guess.

Look at the Coffee shop and Hardware store, or record store, Part of Starbucks business plan is to put their store right near old mom and pop Coffee shops like my restaurant to skim off business and eventually put them out and take all.
It is totally changing the old coffee shop and soon that old time gathering place will be gone from sight forever.

The local Hardware store used to be a place where you knew the owner and he knew you, they would fix things like door screens ect.

Both of those types of small businesses have changed forever.

Heck the record store is now a thing you do online at home.
The smell of incents and strawberry wrapping papers as you walked in the door, gone.
No flipping through albums you would have never seen, heck there is not even a cover, no liner notes, no pictures inside of people at say Woodstock.
No video on MTV.
No bongs to look at or silk wall hangings of Jimi Hendrix or led zeppelin.
Never knew that existed but I know I need it after seeing it.
Buying a Farrah Fawcett poster online is just not the same as in person.

That is what these little whacky things do, they change the thing that was over time forever and replace it with the new version.
For the better some say.

You may not see a new Kahiki or Mai Kai ever built or even the rich history of the Tiki-Ti
be reproduced, that is a place that can only be done by the Buhen family and takes two life times to get to that place they are.

If you know the things I just wrote about be glad you were there to live it, as the new faster, cheaper versions have killed most of them forever.

If you don't....
"Alexa" look up silk wall hanging Jimi Hendrix?

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2019-05-04 03:53 ]

https://www.metv.com/lists/10-things-you-never-knew-about-that-iconic-farrah-fawcett-poster
One swimsuit selfie earned her more money than 'Charlie's Angels.'

She sits on the ground, arm propped up on one knee. Her head of golden curls tossed back. Her eyes fixed on you. Bronze skin, teeth beaming. A simple red swimsuit popping against a rainbow backdrop.

It's an image fixed in the memory of anyone who lived through the 1970s. Not only is it the defining image of Farrah Fawcett, it is an icon of the entire decade. It's glamorous but real, and it was made for cheap, with a scrappy backstory.

The tale of how this poster came to be — and what it became — is rather fascinating. Let's breeze back to Seventies and take a closer look.

1. It has sold more than 5 million copies.
2. It's the bestselling poster of all time.
3. The poster was made by Ohio brothers who got their start in anti-war posters.

I went to college with her. My only claim to fame

I looked it up and apparently the oldest thread about monkeys and fezzes goes back to 2002: http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=293&forum=1&64

Who knew that Tiki has been declining for 17 years. That's longer than I've even known about Tiki... Gawd, this must be the worst possible time to be into it.

The Kahiki went out in 2000 so yes it has been a slow decline.
How many Trader Vic's went out in that amount of time?

Bahooka?

Record stores did not go out over night and you can find one or two here and there.

And there will be hold outs, California will always be a small hot bed of tiki.

Just to satisfy my own interest, I looked at Critiki's last list of Top 10 rated Tiki bars. 6 of the 10 opened after 2002. It also listed an additional 7 with ratings above 9.0, of which only 1 predates 2002.

The names of these bars that opened since 2002? Smuggler's Cove, Frankie's, Trader Sam's (Anaheim and Orlando), Pagan Idol, Latitude 29, Lei Low, UnderTow, Forbidden Island, Foundation, Hale Pele, False Idol, and TikiCat. I'm pretty sure a bunch more really good bars have opened up in the past 17 years as well, not to mention a bunch of Tiki conventions and mug manufacturers (of course, both Tiki Oasis and Tiki Farm started in 2000, but I'd assume that the decline of Tiki would have begun before that one 2002 post about monkeys and fezzes).

Oh yeah, now while I couldn't analyze Yelp's reviews since they don't have it broken down easily, I did look at TripAdvisor's listing for the Mai Kai. Of 1,463 reviews, only 127 were 1-star. 135 were 2-star. 548 were 5-star and 363 were 4-star. Mai Kai's rating on Critiki? 9.7. It came in #2 on Critiki's list of Top 10 Tiki bars.

Again, I had no idea this was such an era of decline for Tiki. Literally, I didn't, because it looks like exactly the opposite of that. Such is my naivete, I guess.

[ Edited by: EnchantedTikiGoth 2019-05-04 14:58 ]

You left out Three Dots and a Dash.

The one good thing if you open a new tiki bar you will get a windfall of good reviews from your friends and tiki nutz as you could really suck and they would still leave you great reviews.

People forget how badly people talked about the Kahiki before it was slated to be gone forever, maybe that has tainted my view of the situation.

But I hope you are right and old skool tiki is on the rise.

Skip!!!!!!! Give it a rest with the constant talk of the Kahiki. Seriously! We get it. The place sounds like it was amazing, but 95% of people into Tiki now never got to go there and unless they go to the Mai Kai they will never experience what Tiki was like in its heyday, but things have changed. Most likely not for the better, but carrying on and on about it isn't going to bring it back or change things. It's a different world now whether you (or i) like it or not.

Can I ask a fairly obvious question, and excuse my ignorance since this all happened before I was ever into Tiki: towards the end, DID Kahiki turn into a dump? I mean, WAS it dirty and dingy and serve terrible food?

I posted the reviews for Mai Kai to show that negative reviews were in the minority, showing that they're probably explicable more by negative individual experiences and people who just aren't into Tiki anyways than by some massive shift in Tiki culture. I don't have those kinds of figures for Kahiki though. If a bar is getting a LOT of reviews that its dingy and dirty and serving terrible food, then that is probably a real problem on the bar's part.

I doubt that anyone thinks the loss of these grand old Tiki palaces is anything but tragic. But for as much as Tiki has changed, there's a lot of ways it has stayed the same. Back in the Fifties and Sixties, Tiki bars were designed to be themed escapes for people to get away from the urbanity of their lives. This summer my wife and I are going to Grand Canyon, Petrified Forest, and Route 66 via Phoenix, and I've been looking at stuff about UnderTow. You can't tell me that isn't filling the same longing for themed escapism as the Mai Kai or Kahiki or the Sip n' Dip or the Tonga Room did 50 years ago. Or that Trader Sam's isn't doing that too, or Smuggler's Cove, or Hale Pele, or Shameful Tiki Room, or whatever. The fact that there has been a branching out into "modern" Tiki bars is itself symptomatic of Tiki's growth, not its decline.

"Skip!!!!!!! Give it a rest with the constant talk of the Kahiki"

Kahiki is the place I refer to as I saw what went on and referring to it is an attempt to document the stuff that was there, and to hope people will learn from what I thought was a mistake in tearing it down.

And I would say that like over 90% of what I post here on TC is not about the Kahiki.
And that 10% that is about the kahiki is some of the best stuff on TC, Period.

Leave this thread now Swizz, or see some more Kahiki at your own risk.

"DID Kahiki turn into a dump? I mean, WAS it dirty and dingy and serve terrible food?"

Yeah, it did get a bit bad, my video of it has a cockroach crawling down one of the hanging lights.
I did not see that till years later.
One of the first owners was at the Kahiki auction and he was saying how dirty it was over and over.
It was not super bad though.

My sister had a wedding reception a few years before the end at the Kahiki and the food was great.
The last night party that we went to also had good food, How do you know that right now cuz I just f=ing told you Swizz.:)

And the drinks were good if Jim made them, Skips would knock you on your butt.

But you did not go for the food or the drinks it was all about the place and Skip who made it fun.

Sorry I'm too old school and don't like some of the new tiki bars, but then I don't like Maori tiki so it's all what you like I guess.
I need more history and feeling in a bar I guess.

Don't think that Smuggler's Cove, Frankie's, Trader Sam's (Anaheim and Orlando), Pagan Idol, Latitude 29, Lei Low, UnderTow, Forbidden Island, Foundation, Hale Pele, False Idol, and TikiCat Are tiki lite bars.

The fact is and my point mostly is new tiki lite bars don't last for much over a year.
And Monkeys with fez on are IMHO tiki lite.

tikiskip wrote:
And Monkeys with fez on are IMHO tiki lite.

Criminy! I've been tiki lite for twelve years now!

Oh, heck, I'll go fully pentatic.

Only this one from the original post is even potentially a "Tiki" monkey:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/801007483705153848/

The rest are chimps!

I had to look that one up.

"Pendatic Criticism is concerned with the content of what is being done and what are the motives behind a certain artifact as crafted by a rhetor. This method of criticism is greatly based in Burke's Theory of Dramatism which looks at life as a play where symbols and language are used to formulate thoughts in a neurological need for humans to make sense of the world."

I guess I am the rhetor?
So if we put a fez on say a mole, is that tiki?
And or does this mean Morocco Mole is tiki?

Also if Morocco Mole with a fez on is NOT tiki why IS a monkey with a fez tiki?

How many of us have Morocco Mole in our tiki bars.
I like Morocco Mole FYI, and would put him in my tiki bar but only if I had MORE good tiki in my bar than tiki lite Morocco Mole.

PS Morocco Mole is cooler than a monkey with a fez IMHO, plus he had a TV show.

All just my thoughts on a subject, with a few actual facts mixed in.

"Yeah, it did get a bit bad, my video of it has a cockroach crawling down one of the hanging lights."

NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE.

As for Morocco Mole... Why not? Why not Morocco Mole?

Let me let you in on a little secret.
EVERY restaurant / bar has cockroaches, if they serve Pop, or have vegetables cockroaches ride in on the boxes.
Heck cockroaches even ride in on customers and even the workers, if you maybe hire a homeless person that sleeps in the open shelter guess what those places are filled with.

How do you think we got some of the non American type bugs over here in the first place, they rode in on people and boxes, luggage.

So restaurants and bars can only at best keep them from infesting the place really bad.

And if you are talking about a tiki place with all that bamboo and thatch plus the grease and water, forget about it a cockroach could not design a better place to live if he tried.

Now if we could just get them to wear tiny fezzes.

tikiskip wrote:
How many of us have Morocco Mole in our tiki bars.

I had not heard of Morocco Mole before your post. I have missed out on this great advancement in Tiki culture. I now need to get a poster of Morocco Mole holding a cocktail to go with my posters Fez-wearing monkeys holding cocktails. My tiki bar is incomplete without one.

If we are comparing Bahooka to False Idol, give me False Idol any day.

I liked Bahooka for what it was but the food and drinks were not good. I saved a few pieces of Bahooka and have them displayed at my home tiki bar, but if Bahooka and False Idol were both a block from me I'd do False Idol 100x more often.

I'm not worried about spending money on a drink though, and I don't go to bars to drink beer. I appreciate that cocktail quality has improved and for me it is worth the price.

I am not a fan of:
Monkeys
Chimps
Fezzes
Moles
So I am not the target market for these.

Wow, Skip, you win the Pendantic badge - I just meant it in the standard usage: overscrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, over-exacting, perfectionist, precisionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finical, finicky...

I like False Idol and miss Bahooka. And I love Morocco Mole. Even though he's not a monkey.

"I had not heard of Morocco Mole before your post."

Ok now I get it.

"I liked Bahooka for what it was but the food and drinks were not good."

THIS is what Kahiki was at the end.

"I'm not worried about spending money on a drink though"

I'm not as well but most of the time when you do the drink sucks.
And I'm not into doing that.

I need one of those word a day calendars.
Ha! I AM fussy!

Sorry.

"scrupulous" This is that girl that the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang dad liked right?
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is a movie Scott McGerik, they get this old car and fix it up.

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is tiki and there will be a mug.

On 2019-05-06 22:22, bamalamalu wrote:
Wow, Skip, you win the Pendantic badge - I just meant it in the standard usage: overscrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, over-exacting, perfectionist, precisionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finical, finicky...

So Morocco Mole driving a Tiki Monkey in a Tiki Jeep....it's a Tiki Trifecta!

And the funny thing is we KNOW for sure that chickee huts and Jimmy Buffet are NOT tiki.

So like is Allen Funt going to come on and post any second now, is this Candid Camera the online version?

Oh man you guys got me, good one.

tikiskip wrote:
Oh man you guys got me, good one.

Haha!

I agree with you that monkeys wearing Fezzes are not Tiki. I'm amused by them and I really do have a framed poster of one holding a martini (from Modern Drunkard magazine) but I never considered them Tiki. At the same time, I'm disappointed that I haven't found a poster of Morocco Mole holding a cocktail. I thought that I would have found one for sale on eBay or etsy or even Amazon.com.

While fez Monkey are not tiki one or two in a bar does not hurt, I got one.
And Zerostreet does a great job on his fez Monkey paintings and he is a nice guy too.

I have Robert's print of Groucho Marx in a fez, which beats a monkey (or a mole) in a fez hands down.

Still not tiki, though.

[ Edited by: Hamo 2019-05-08 19:17 ]

And Zerostreet does a great job on his fez Monkey paintings and he is a nice guy too.

These fit here.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."

The deck of Chimp cards are cool.

I gave the guy who makes that er, Chimp art duct tape once at Hukilau.
It's my only claim to fame.

"I once said I knew fame, but fame denied ever knowing me"
Tikiskip