Crypto-Mugs. Do these legends exist and who has them?

After 10 plus years I finally scored this strange and IMO crypto HF Kona Kai mug.

Similar but quite different compared to the more common OMC Kona Kai mug.

And this is not just a Kona Kai copy cat mug, like the Orchids of Hawaii version, since it actually has Kona Kai logo incorporated as part of its design on the back. I got the mug from Pennsylvania so it’s safe to assume it was the Philadelphia Kona Kai location.

Although referred to as HF pottery, HF stands for House of Favors which was a restaurant supply store from Boston.

They also provided the amazing double wall mugs for the Steve Crane restaurants (the Luau, Don Tiki, etc.) as well as the super cool and rare Mauna Loa Detroit mugs.

More can be found on this thread.

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31736&forum=5&hilite=house%20of%20favors

I believe they also provided some items to Bob Lee islander. And now we also know they provided mugs for the Kona Kai.

It is undoubtedly extremely rare. Who knows what the story behind it is. The real question being if this came before the OMC version or after? They are both original and one obviously inspired the other. I would guess the HF version came later but who really knows.

[ Edited by: Tattoo 2019-08-06 21:48 ]

Tattoo,

Rad find! Thanks for staying on the hunt so hard and keeping us up to date with this stuff. This is one of my favorite threads on TC.

Thanks Cavemoai... just trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together!

I'd guess it came before the OMC myself. Start with your own mug then get more generic (cheaper) over time.

Great info.

On 2019-08-07 05:25, Swanky wrote:
I'd guess it came before the OMC myself. Start with your own mug then get more generic (cheaper) over time.

Great info.

You could be onto something Swanky. The Kona Kai opened circa 1962 and the only documentation of a Kona Kai OMC mug is from a 1974 picture. Which features the OMC fog cutter and SP shakers.

We can date the HF tiki mugs from the Detroit Mauna Loa to 1967-1969 (when it was open). And there’s a 1966 Playboy article featuring the Steve Crane Ku mug by HF.

HF was supplying Tiki mugs in the mid 60s and thus we could place the HF Kona Kai mug in that time frame. Speculation, I know but HF only produced a very limited number of mugs which were all produced in the mid to late 60s.

Also, it is quite obvious that HF mugs were undoubtedly of a higher caliber and quality and no doubt much more expensive. So it would seem a bit unlikely that the Kona Kai would replace their cheaper OMC mugs with a more expensive HF mug. It is, as Swanky pointed out, much more likely that the Kona Kai commissioned HF to produce a signature mug... got sticker shock and quickly had OMC copy it.

OMC does have a history of copying mugs made by other producers for a restaurant. The LA Islander comes to mind where they copied the Spurlin mugs and took over supplying mugs. In particular the Spurlin Island Chief which was mass produced for various restaurants (and was even copied by Tiki Farm).

So it is not unreasonable to suspect that the HF mug came first. It is unfortunate that these things are so hard to date.

[ Edited by: tattoo 2019-08-11 09:36 ]

Here's one I've not seen before. It's a coconut mug from the Royal Hawaiian Hotel on Waikiki. There aren't any markings other than a spot from where there was one of those blue rectangular "Japan" stickers. I don't know that this is truly considered "Crypto" but I can't find it on a menu illustration, nor any mention of it elsewhere.

Is Phillip Roberts still around? Maybe he can shed some light on it.

[ Edited by: Cavemoai 2019-09-26 07:46 ]

Wow. That’s huge. Never seen it. However, it’s the very close to the same mold as the Duke Kahanamoku’s on the beach coconut by Terra Ceramics, and the Royal Hawaiian script is a dead giveaway. Look at how Hawaii is written. I'm no forensic handwriting expert, but that's so close...

I’m gonna guess 1964-1968.

Waikiki Tiki; Art, History, and Photographs.
Available now from Bess Press Hawaii.

[ Edited by: Phillip Roberts 2019-09-26 14:11 ]

On 2019-09-26 09:05, Phillip Roberts wrote:
Wow. That’s huge. Never seen it. However, it’s the very close to the same mold as the Duke Kahanamoku’s on the beach coconut by Terra Ceramics, and the Royal Hawaiian script is a dead giveaway. I’m gonna guess 1964-1968.

I thought the same about this and the Duke Kahanamoku coconut. Until it got to me and it was not marked as being from Terra Ceramics...just a spot where a "Japan" sticker was. Thanks for the info! I'm glad you're still posting and reading on here.

Another mug from Doc's Town & Country in Toronto, Canada. This time made of natural bamboo with the design stamped on it in ink:

TC's triumphant return means my favorite thread of lost legends is back! Can't wait to see what was unearthed in the past year.

Cool.

This is the best TC thread ever, and I am so glad it is back. Here is something that has had me curious for a while...

I have this menu from the long closed Lanai, sometimes referred to as the "Lanai Room," at the Roosevelt Hotel in Seattle. As you can see from the photos, the mugs and mug names are the same as those used by the Kalua Room at Seattle's Hotel Windsor. Even the drink prices are similar to those on old Kalua Room menus, suggesting a similar time of operation. What has me most intrigued is the message "FOR SOUVENIR HUNTERS!" seen in the last photo.

I have found very little information on the Lanai online, and there seems to be nothing on TC about it (I apologize if I have missed something, TC's search functionality is apparently limited at the moment). Does anyone have anything on this place?

More important, do these mugs actually exist? Has anyone here ever actually seen one of these mugs marked "Lanai" or "Lanai Room"? Or did the Kalua Room and Lanai have the same owners and sold the same Kalua-marked mugs?

[ Edited by The Professor on 2022-03-19 10:01:08 ]

Professor I know that in 1962 both the Roosevelt Hotel (the Lanai) and Windsor Hotel (Kalua Room) were managed by Gwynne Austin. Gwynne Austin had previously managed Hawaii's Kona Inn, the Halekulani and opened Kaisers Hawaiian Village... he left Hawaii to take over the Windsor in 1954.

I have seen 3 of those mugs in person but they were all marked Kalua Room... there were a couple Tiki Tiki mugs for sale online a few years back that were unmarked though.

I've never seen that menu before... Great post!

[ Edited by tikicoma on 2022-03-19 17:43:05 ]

[ Edited by tikicoma on 2022-03-19 17:44:25 ]

Thanks for the great info, tikicoma--it helps connect the dots. I still wonder about those unmarked Tiki Tiki mugs, and the possibility of Lanai markings out there somewhere...

Here's one that went under the radar on Instagram a few weeks ago:

Photo credit goes to @ilzeandjonny (please let me know if I am in the wrong reposting this here and I will delete the photo), who noted that these were part of a collection from the daughter of a Hilton Hawaiian Village employee in the 1960s.

All of these have been well documented, EXCEPT for that Chimp in Orbit mug on the far left. Just for reference, here it is, once again, on an original HHV drink menu:

According to this thread, the Chimp in Orbit was still a true crypto mug. So...

1. It is now confirmed in someone's collection, and
2. There is a blue variant?!

[ Edited by The Professor on 2022-03-26 09:04:58 ]

Seeing those altogether and with the chimp is crazy and what this thread is all about. Hopefully we will never see a club 33 mug here.

Agreed.

Two versions of the Mai Kai ladle: the all ceramic one and a precursor with a wooden handle.

So, the darker brown one looks like the Hofman version made for the Kahiki is it the same or even made by Hofman pottery?

You are one of the few people who would most likely have one of each of those two Mai Kai type ladles and the Kahiki one as well.

Kohalacharms, I know you by reputation only. Glad to see that you are still around

Kahiki had both wooden handle and all-ceramic, similar to those but different glazes.

And those Kahiki versions were made by Hofman pottery?

So, could it be that the ones for Mai Kai were made by Hofman as well?

Then if they were made by Hofman Pottery a local company makes you wonder who used these first? That would kinda make it lean towards Kahiki using this first, right?

Thanks for sharing that info Wendy.

Skip you have physical evidence the Kahiki team took reconnaissance trips down south. Could be inspiration more than anything.

Just what Bill Sapp told me when we talked those two or three times.

Edit: I just found that photo of Bill Sapp and I drinkin' a piña colada at Trader Vic's Bills hair was perfect.

Ha! what physical evidence could I have?

[ Edited by tikiskip on 2022-08-21 02:37:46 ]

Lots of times for newer TC folk people who collect tiki (Like really collect) these collectors don't like to give out too much info on the really rare things they find as it might help you find those things too as you would then have the right words needed to hunt the land of eBay to find those things.

The right words can take an item from 10.00 bucks to Hundreds of dollars.

"But skip they must have that thing already maybe even two or three as many as a twelve-piece setting"

I thought that too, but if they can corner the market on that rare bit of tiki they can then by keeping it from you come back and trade you that rare thing for that one rare tiki thing you have that they need.

Or maybe like every other person on this site they are going to write a book one day.

I even felt this way some time ago too, but is there a day when one might say I have a great maybe even awesome tiki collection and I'm not going to write a book and then share all the info that collection can provide to document bits and pieces of tiki history?

Once totaled up the eBay spending of a BIG tiki collector and this was after MANY years of him collecting, it was over $5000.00 bucks! EVERY month!

Used to love just looking at his monthly purchases as it was like a tiki museum with stuff I never knew was out there, (it was like a free book of Tiki that came out every month) but it told me it WAS out there and the words needed to find it on eBay, now you can't look up a person's purchases on eBay.

Man, you would need to hire help just to receive and unwrap all that tiki every month!

Who remembers Bananaboobs on eBay, now who will remember Sven?

Thank you, Wendy you have shared with me tiki stuff/info, over the years.

It’s a pity that the posting topic has reverted to a whine session about those that have vs. those that have not. This is nothing new to the Collecting Tiki forum; a common occurrence, just different players. The motivations for veering away from the forum‘s topic at hand is unclear but a common thread appears to be the inexplicable need to garner sympathy or support for ones personal grievances. Not witnessing any objections from forum participants suggests that this mindset aligns with that of the group. If this assumption is correct, I’m uncertain as to how this would encourage continued participation.

[ Edited by kohalacharms on 2022-08-22 12:25:28 ]

I don't see what I posted as "whining" about not having tiki, I really do have too much mostly Kahiki.

But what I was talking/"whining" about was sharing the info and pictures of what people do have, I did it when Kate asked if I would send her my ITV catalog and even by posting MANY Kahiki photos to her site don't know what happened to those pics but hey I tried.

And have even helped many Tiki book writers with info and got little in return did it to add to tiki history documentation.

One guy did send me two bottles of Havana Club once.

Really don't collect or hunt tiki especially on eBay anymore as it just got too much, the big wallets would always beat you and the cool stuff would often disappear to some "hey could you end this auction early" guy who would not even give people a fair chance at the tiki item up for sale.

Have not done a search for "tiki" on eBay for years.

Thank you for posting the pictures of yer stuff it's most times stuff few ever see in person.

But hey why did you not want to answer the question...

"So, the darker brown one looks like the Hofman version made for the Kahiki is it the same or even made by Hofman pottery?"

Seems like a good thought to me, on a forum that talks about such things.

You are a legend in tiki collecting that's for sure so who better to answer that question. But then you don't have to answer to anybody that is true.

Sorry it was an honest question then with an honest thought as to why that might not be answered as it has come up in the past with other collectors.

Keep posting as I will not post to your posts anymore if that's what you want.

[ Edited by tikiskip on 2022-08-22 15:35:17 ]

[ Edited by kohalacharms on 2022-08-23 18:22:55 ]

kohalacharms fun seeing you posting.

Do need to break my vow a bit to say thank you Frank.

Where have I seen that writing on the left one that says "Handcraft"? Man, it was the same handwriting and everything.

AND there it is the “Handcraft” I was talking about. SO whats up with that? Did Hoffman make mugs for Mai Kai, or did the Mai Kai take this design or was it the Kahiki that took this design.

Somebody copied somebody.

At any rate just filled a few words for some book writer pages.

Links to phots of "Handcraft" on Bottom of a Hoffman mug....

KAHIKI Columbus, ohio tiki bar restaurant. Lee Henry, The catalog - Collecting Tiki - Tiki Central https://tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18136&start=576

KAHIKI Columbus, ohio tiki bar restaurant. Lee Henry, The catalog - Collecting Tiki - Tiki Central https://tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18136&start=288

[ Edited by tikiskip on 2022-08-24 08:11:44 ]

Good detective work👍

Not sure if this is officially crypto, but I've never seen one other than the Don the Beachcomber drink menu illustration ... until today :)

Neat find, Simon! Where's you come across this? Now you need to find the sidecar to complete the set!

Accidental ebay find. Was looking for a book and somehow my search keywords brought this up a couple pages down in the search results. Seller was in Chicago so, maybe came from the old DtB up there? And yes, already looking for the perfect sidecar glass ;)

Simon that is cool. The glassware is impossible to find since there is no markings. You just have to know what to look for , actually look for and get very lucky. Beyond port and starboard light glasses and Morgantown glassware, it's just not very feasible. And who lists it on eBay to begin with?

Very cool and lucky!

Wendy: "Skip you have physical evidence the Kahiki team took reconnaissance trips down south. Could be inspiration more than anything."

When I met Bill Sapp 15-20 years ago he told me directly that they visited the Mai-Kai. He said it was DtB Chicago that started the fire. They were the most happening restaurant in Chicago period. Then they went to the Mai-Kai. He said they hung out with the Thorntons. Said they were on a yacht with them, etc.

Classic copy and rip-off/inspiration. The Mai-Kai copied DtB and Canlis, and everything they absorbed and loved. Kahiki wanted to capitalize on what they saw too.

Would be cool to find out who copied who on what things as well like the Mai Kai looks like they used some Hoffman Pottery items that had to be from Kahiki giving them that lead as Hoffman was a very small Ohio company that the Mai Kai would never find on its own.

"Wendy: "Skip you have physical evidence the Kahiki team took reconnaissance trips down south. Could be inspiration more than anything."

Ha! I love this one, how could I? BUT other than Bill told me so, if you look at the items In the Kahiki by themselves they look kinda Mexican you would not buy it if somebody showed it to you on it's own.

Many of the Kahiki lights I got one would not want to buy if not for them being in the Kahiki at one time, same with some of the carvings.

THAT is the cool thing about the Kahiki above most other tiki joints is their tiki decor was made by so many people and company's man you had Corban Morgan, Oceanic Arts, Bernie Altenbach, Hoffman pottery, Marcy Sapp, Lavisse, Sterling China, Herman L. Leitwein, Benson Co, Phil Kientz, Tom Iaquinta, Jack Liberatore, Libby Glass, Marrio Tores, Oceanic Arts, Columbus school of art and Design, DSK Designs.

I know I missed a bunch of them but those are JUST decor, builders and glass wear people.

Swanky I need to tell you the story about my sister getting me your Mai-Kai book for Christmas!

Swanky, I've been deep diving into the glassware for the last couple years, so my eye is well trained and caught the pic in the listings. Your reticular activating system is what catches things like this ... study those old menu illustrations! Knowing the makers on all of the vintage glassware also helps ;)

I actually have the order sheets for Don the Beachcomber and the Mai-Kai glassware from the early to mid-50s. They used over 50 unique pieces of glassware and it was part of the system the bartenders used and Donn Beach created, to construct the drinks.

Good luck on your hunt!

It'll all be in my Donn beach book!

Fantastic! Looking forward to the book.

Here is a sample for TC only: What we'd call a Collins glass or Chimney from Bob Van Dorpe's archive. Image and nomenclature number for ordering. "H"

There would be a drink card image for the Zombie in the corner, along with this list of drinks and the nomenclature number for the glass they were served in. "H"

This is one of the order sheets for one of the companies, showing your glass, which is #14 "Ringed Tumbler Dry Float." They named the glassware for the drinks often as you see. DtB had their own line practically!

And here is the card for your glass from Bob Van Dorpe's archive. "N"

And they would also be married to the drink recipe card...

Donn-Beach.com

Great info, thanks for sharing! I hope you include gobs of this stuff in the book.

My goodness, when I think of the overhead involved in maintaining stock of so many distinct glass lines! That had to have grown into a serious financial burden in later years. I would assume they'd have phased out some of the more esoteric glasses over time and conflated more and more cocktails into shared, utilitarian glasses.

[ Edited by Prikli Pear on 2023-01-10 14:16:00 ]

Just the storage of all the glassware would seem to me to be a huge headache. I don't know how big most Don the Beachcombers were or what kind of storage areas they might have had on site, but I'd think you'd need at least 30 of each glass on hand. Oy

Swanky I'm guessing that the Canlis he referred to was the one in Waikiki? After all the Seattle Canlis seems to have nothing in common with the Mai-Kai while the building design at Waikiki does seem to.

Great info on the glassware Swanky, funny that they had a ruler next to the glass as my parents had four restaurants at one time and they served a small water glass right when you walked in and sat.

Well over time that glass would be taller and shorter one might say what's the big deal but when you put them on a tray after washing dishes they don't stack well as the tray is sitting on all different heights when trays are stacked, these big places would have had LOTS of stacked trays of glasses.

You should hear the noise of stacks of those trays falling to the ground.

And on keeping these glasses on hand back in the day if we did not have an item we needed the salesperson would bring it out to us like right then that day, at times in under an hour if we needed it for lunch.

So, they may not have had to have them right there but that is a ton of glassware and just think there must have been so few other places using some of those glasses, bet they stocked some of those glasses just for DTB.

But then that one glass looks like a Vase for flowers too.

Polster's would carry a better quality for our place because we would grip when they tried to give us the cheap stuff, nobody eles was buying the high dollar stuff so Polster's did not want to stock it anymore.

When I worked at OSU many years after my parent's place, they could not even return a mistake sent to OSU by their supplier and getting something brought out to them on a special trip just because OSU needed it, well that never happened.

Our small diner was treated better back then than the HUGE account that OSU had years later.

Thats how much worse it has gotten for restaurants today.