Should Tiki Central be "Politically Correct" ?

-The answer is yes.-

Edit: The answer is more complicated than "yes". Firstly TC should be non-political. Political correctness in regards to tiki history, cultural appropriation, etc should be discussed.

The rules aim to reinforce this eg: no politics, be polite, no trolling.

We can have thoughtful discussion around cultural appropriation, historical wrong doing and other sensitive issues if done respectfully.

Also see this post from the original author.

This is a sticky post.

[ Edited by leevigraham on 2023-03-24 17:46:05 ]

[ Edited by leevigraham on 2023-03-25 05:09:43 ]

So should "Tiki Central" be a place where political correctness is observed?
or like the heyday of Tiki bars & Supper clubs where political correctness never existed?

Long Live the :tiki: "TCLF"! :tiki:
Putting the "Truth" back in the T for Tiki!

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2010-10-22 17:39 ]

This post has always put it the best perspective for me...

On 2010-06-13 09:11, bigbrotiki wrote:

Tiki culture became extinct because it contained a lot of the ills of the generation that created it: Racism, sexism, chauvinism and cultural ignorance. The Tiki revival uses the tension of that political incorrectness to provoke and make light of TOO much political correctness, it toys with those past sins in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Nothing should be so sacrosanct that it cannot be joked about. But it still is a matter of place, context and degree. It is a very thin line and fine balance to not misstep too far into some of the rightfully outdated attitudes of a drunken loudmouth humor.

Looking back at mid century mores & very much being a time of manners & etiquette
it really was a dichotomy of attitudes,where as long as you wore the proper evening attire
a overt racial remark was completely acceptable.

As for society today, when there is outcry at any topic that makes anyone uncomfortable
and should just not be talked about openly.

Yet many people today have no real concept of manners & etiquette (are they dead?)
As for myself I am offended by overt racism & sexism but think these topics should be discussed in public forum
as many other Taboo subjects.

We need more dialog, not less! even if it may be uncomfortable to some.

Long Live the :tiki: "TCLF"! :tiki:
Putting the "Truth" back in the T for Tiki!

I guess that it kinds if depends on what you are referring to. If you're talking about posting some pix of scantily clad wahines, or some ribald humour that's one thing and I for one would be cool with that. But if you are talking about something like telling 'jokes' that are based on a mocking the colour of a person's skin, their religion, culture etc, then I for one am not cool with that. Just my two cents.

Who's sand is the line going to be drawn in?

On 2010-10-22 21:40, Mr. NoNaMe wrote:
Who's sand is the line going to be drawn in?

I am just a guest here.

"As for society today, when there is outcry at any topic that makes anyone uncomfortable and should just not be talked about openly."

In regards to society today I rarely see an "outcry" made from intelligent people regarding an actual discussion of a topic.

The exception to that is when it's fairly certain that the discussion will degrade from an argument of ideas to a fight over opinions. Fighting over a topic almost never yields anything of value.

However there are a lot of subjects which make people uncomfortable to discuss (such as sex, religion, politics, how much money you make, etc) and it's just rude to bring them up.

That's different than calling a sexist on his/her sexism or pointing out a person's radically hypocritical behavior. The guy who espouses minimal water usage but drains and refills his Olympic size pool every day would probably be uncomfortable if his level of water usage was brought up but I think it would be a valid subject to address.

"As for myself I am offended by overt racism & sexism but think these topics should be discussed in public forum..."

In the right time and place there's nothing wrong with discussing such topics. My friends and I do it all the time when we're together. But if I had brought up the sexism last week while at a brunch with a bunch of my friends' distant relatives who I had just met it would have been rather rude (and odd) of me.

"We need more dialog, not less! Even if it may be uncomfortable to some."

I agree. But Tiki central is not the place for such dialog. We can barely discuss whether something is Tiki or not without people taking their toys and leaving forever.

As has been addressed on Tiki Central many times before there are numerous other sites on the Internet to discuss racism, sexism, politics, Jimmy Buffet, religion, and countless other subjects which often get people so riled up they lose control of their finger tips and post whatever barely crosses their minds.

Just because a subject isn't being talked about it doesn't mean people are oblivious or blind to the subject. It could mean that it's just not the right time or place to discuss it.

So a serious subject about "Tiki Central" deemed not Tiki worthy! really?
was someone upset with the objective approach to the subject matter?
an Ernest question posed to TCers? sent straight to bilge.

Well this answers the question then, Tiki Central is all about the PC.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2010-10-22 23:21 ]

How can a question pertaining to what content is permissible to discuss on the site be kicked to the "basement" with no more then a cursory glance? I don't want to see another dust up over a posting, but this is getting annoying.

On 2010-10-22 17:36, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Should Tiki Central be "Politically Correct?

Don't ask me.
I get disappointed when I walk into a Trader Vics, and the chef doesn't look like Hop Sing.

Yay this ended up in Bilge and I didn't even have to waste time U-Moderating it!

Thanks to whoever extended their power to switch it over !

On 2010-10-22 23:56, leleliz wrote:
Yay this ended up in Bilge and I didn't even have to waste time U-Moderating it!

Thanks to whoever extended their power to switch it over !

Wow, that's the way to address a serious subject.

Atomic,

It might be helpful if yo could clarify what kind if 'non-PC' discussions that you have in mind. Since this has been kicked to the basement (which I think is wrong, just for the record), please give us a taste of what you have in mind.

I was only breaching the subject to have a healthy debate on what is acceptable to talk about
and what would not be, on "Tiki Central"

It seems the very concept is not worthy of any conversation to some?
I was not going to start a debate on Religion, Politics etc. for the record.

But I am a free speech advocate.

I was watching an episode of Hawaii Five O on KDOC Tv last night called A Distant Thunder which addressed freedom of speech. The episode involves the Five O officers investigating a neo nazi group. At one point, McGarret confronted the neo nazi's and shared the views of freedom of speech as expressed by Supreme Court justice Oliver Wendell Holmes who stated that yelling fire in a crowded theatre is not covered under freedom of speech.

Hmm, guess this has nothing to do with the above post but Hawaii Five O is a favorite with Tiki Centralites so I thought some of you might be interested.

Now back to our regular discussion.....

King Bushwich the 33rd, it's so funny you would bring that up, I also watched that same episode last night
It was definitely a social commentary episode, The use of the "N" work and other racial slurs that would not be tolerated
on Television today, The evoking of "Peoples" rights etc. & racial intolerance being the message of the episode.

Not a regular episode of H-50 at all & very much a product of a certain time & social mindset and not remotely PC.

On 2010-10-23 00:38, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
I was only breaching the subject to have a healthy debate on what is acceptable to talk about
and what would not be, on "Tiki Central"

It seems the very concept is not worthy of any conversation to some?
I was not going to start a debate on Religion, Politics etc. for the record.

But I am a free speech advocate.

Hmm.... interesting topic for discussion.

But I don't see how this particular discussion is going to further anyone's understanding of anything "Tiki" so I am thinking this is not the venue for this particular topic.

While I would love to chat with you, and anyone else interested, about the concept of "PC" and how I think it is destroying the art of communication in the US today, it is a topic to be discussed elsewhere on the internet. If you would like to take the discussion elsewhere, you can find me on Facebook, or use the link below for my email. It is a topic I feel strongly about and look forward to the discussion with you.

Actually, anyone who knows about the era of mid century Tiki, knows that it was very much
a part of the times and pertains directly to Tiki in general.

The question I was raising is how much do we recognize/acknowledge in today's PC world?
how much do we openly discuss on Tiki Central?

So please don't suggest that it should not even be discussed here, It is part of Tiki culture and is revealent to TC.
I did not intend this thread to be a testing ground of nonPC content,I am just opening a dialog on what topics
TCers are open to discuss in a thoughtful manner.

On 2010-10-23 15:49, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:
I was watching an episode of Hawaii Five O on KDOC Tv last night called

Hmm, guess this has nothing to do with the above post but Hawaii Five O is a favorite with Tiki Centralites so I thought some of you might be interested.

Now back to our regular discussion.....

Wow!! 5-0 back on KDOC!

Tiki Central is politically incorrect by default...
Bunch of white, middle aged, alcoholic, athiests...
And according to the flight crews that had the missfortune of staying at the hannelei during oasis, all swingers too!
I cant believe the media hasn't scalded the entire "scene" as some type of tropical KKK meeting...

P.S...
I appologise for any comment thay may have offended any person and Offer my appology in advance to any person that is:
Christian
Muslim
Budhist
Mormon
Catholic
Born Again
Prodestant
Jewish
Hindu
Hindi
Rasta
any religon not mentioned
Black
Mixed Race
Hispanic
Polish
Greek
Ialian
Armenian
Aboriginal/Indigenous Australian
Torres Straight Islander
Tongan
Maori
Eskimo
Indian (dot & feather types)
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Indonesian
French Polynesian
Regular Polynesian
*and any race/background/nationality or heritage not listed
Skinny
Fat
Average Weight
Fit
Unfit
Tall
Short
Average Height
Migets
Giants
Disabled
Sick
Healthy
Young
Old
Very Old
Rich
Poor
Disadvantaged
Single Parents
Victims of crime
Political Prisoners
*and anyone who feels they deserve an apology.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

damnitall!!! I am offended that i am not offended! ya gotta try harder you buncha stooges.

i am waaaaaay offended by Trav's spelling of "Prodestant"
what a retard!

oops!

Oh, I had misread that as prodentist and thought he meant the people who went in for regular dental checkups.

Now I am offended. Yet I have too much of a real life to actually give a damn. Nonetheless I will still hold it against him in the event of a perceived future slight.

On 2010-10-30 00:41, Tiki Trav wrote:
Tiki Central is politically incorrect by default...
Bunch of white, middle aged, alcoholic, athiests...

WHO YOU CALLIN' WHITE ??? !!!

You.. You.. You Caucasian you.

to post in bilge.

No ever apologizes to the Scandinavians, we have not raped or pillaged in over a thousand years!
we even gave you "Danish Modern"
you bunch of ingrates! :lol:

Bugger off you wingeing gits!

On 2010-10-30 10:07, little lost tiki wrote:
i am waaaaaay offended by Trav's spelling of "Prodestant"
what a retard!

oops!

you can't say "retard"...now there is an entire lobby group that hates you and Oprah wants to kick your ass... Oh and sorry to to spelling bee champions and english language proffessors for not using spell check...

On 2010-10-23 19:42, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Actually, anyone who knows about the era of mid century Tiki, knows that it was very much
a part of the times and pertains directly to Tiki in general....So please don't suggest that it should not even be discussed here, It is part of Tiki culture and is revealent to TC.

Sorry, I missed that part in the original question.

As indicated above, Tiki is by default Non-PC since it is a cultural phenomenon created by the haole with little regard (some cases none) to the source material. I think very few here would attempt any kind of revisionist thinking and try to 'clean up' the image of Tiki and its Non-PC-ness and those that try should be stripped of all of their rum.

So to answer your question, yes. We should acknowledge where and when Poly-Pop was created, why, and how and under what circumstances. We don't need to 'be nice' about it, nor do we need to apologize for our love of it. Our job is to learn from it, share the knowledge with others if they are interested, and generally preserve what we can of the culture, idols, ephemera, all of it.

On 2010-10-30 10:45, JOHN-O wrote:

You.. You.. You Caucasian you.

WHOOOAAAA!!!! buddy!
No need for name calling!
You need to be careful where you say that shit brother...
You never know who is on here!

On 2010-10-30 15:00, Tiki Trav wrote:

On 2010-10-30 10:07, little lost tiki wrote:
i am waaaaaay offended by Trav's spelling of "Prodestant"
what a retard!

oops!

you can't say "retard"...now there is an entire lobby group that hates you and Oprah wants to kick your ass... Oh and sorry to to spelling bee champions and english language proffessors for not using spell check...

That was very retarded of Kinny!

On 2010-10-30 13:14, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
No ever apologizes to the Scandinavians, we have not raped or pillaged in over a thousand years!
we even gave you "Danish Modern"
you bunch of ingrates! :lol:

Ah ja! Our, (Nørge), last enslavement was only 130 years ago, that I'm aware of. On Hawaii no less. The good news is that it was our own people. :) Sorry brødrene and søstre!
Skål
Erik the Red

From the Norse saga passed down from my Far's Far it is told that In the year 1066
King Haraldr harðráði of Norway died trying to conquer England. It would be the last major Norse raid.
So it has been a little less then a thousand years to be accurate.

Not counting a few of my own, here on TC :lol:

So it is told, Tak.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2010-10-30 19:18 ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bduQaCRkgg4&feature=related

On 2010-10-30 00:41, Tiki Trav wrote:
Tiki Central is politically incorrect by default...
Bunch of white, middle aged, alcoholic, athiests...
And according to the flight crews that had the missfortune of staying at the hannelei during oasis, all swingers too!
I cant believe the media hasn't scalded the entire "scene" as some type of tropical KKK meeting...

Having attended quite a few Oasises myself, the comparison of today's tikiophiles with the tiki lovers of the 50's is quite real.

While it is true that much of the racism and misogyny that existed in the past is gone, there are certain other aspects of the past tiki culture that remain.

Some are admirable. However, there is a certain similar cultural overlap between some of the people who enjoy today's tiki culture with many of the people who reveled in our past tiki culture - and to be frank, an honest discussion of some of these aspects would cause this place to howl.

Of course not everyone drawn to tiki today is similar - just as not everyone drawn to tiki in the past was similar.

I would wager that many in the crowd drawn to Trader Vic's in New York were quite different than the crowd that rolled in at the local tiki bar down the street.

It's no different, today.

But, to get to Atomictikipunk's point, a realistic discussion about tiki culture today would require this board to suspend the illusion of PC.

And you know what? I really don't believe I could share my own honest observations with this board without getting a barrage of angry emails.

Putting this thread to the basement is an indictment against those who would want to clarify and discuss some of the negative aspects of tiki culture.

telescopes makes a very good point, here.
This Topic was sent to bilge after only a few hours in "general Tiki" some TCers thought it was laughable
some others just outright did not want to talk about it, so far the dialog has been handled in a thoughtful manner
mixed with levity.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Political correctness is ALL fear-based.

Read that above line a few more tomes until you really get it.

We Tiki Centralites are bigger, more self-aware, more secure and way, way, way, way, way too farking hip to be politically correct.

Political correctness is for scared little weenies afraid of being told they are scared litle weenies.

Y' want politically correct, go to Sesame Street Forum. It's also your maturity level.

Resoundingly NO!!!!

No. Why should anything be "politically correct?" That implies something out of the ordinary. PC is an arbitrary standard set by who knows? Enough PC BS. Just be yourself. And if anyone gets offended, too bad. If you are offended by what strangers on a forum have to say, you have bigger problems.

I am in total agreement with your post Mai Tai Mike. "If anybody gets offended etc".

And yet, as you will no doubt have noticed by the large number of my own posts that have since been "hidden" (cute euphemism?), I venture to assert that Tiki Central is undoubtedly one of THE most PC boards on the net. There are so very many topics listed that are now "off-limits" even in Bilge, which is billed as being "For way off-topic, time killer or non-informative posts."

Why, even some honest documentation of my own survival and continuing good health despite the so-called "Apocalypse" has been removed for being either "misinformation" or a "conspiracy theory"! I sometimes look at my living self in the mirror and wonder just which it might be....

[ Edited by TIKIGIKI on 2023-03-11 13:49:53 ]

TIKIGIKI Mai Tai Mike

Tiki Central has rules. By using the site you are bound by the rules. If you break them you get a warning / suspension / banned.

TC is not a place for extreme political ideology or misinformation. It's not an open forum where you can post what ever you want without consequences.

TC is for primarily Tiki discussion. That can include thoughtful discussion around cultural appropriation, historical wrong doing and other sensitive / controversial issues if done respectfully.

The Blige is for non-tiki discussions… but the rules still apply. It is not a free for all.

The general rule to abide by is… don't be a dick.

TIKIGIKI your posts were hidden because they broke the rules on discussing politics and politically charged subjects. You were warned multiple times.

I am also wondering why your post that I am answering here is NOT showing up in the thread at all. Have you inadvertently triggered a bot?

That was a rendering bug with formatting of an old post. It has been fixed. There are no bots monitoring content on the forum.

[ Edited by leevigraham on 2023-03-11 00:48:07 ]

I see. Well purely for clarification of the above rule, I wish to most respectfully ask who decides just exactly what constitutes "misinformation" and how is this done? What are the defining criteria applied?

There can be many varied and conflicting opinions and views on every subject, even in Tiki. Some we may personally agree with, others not at all. But they are all opinions, and thus entitled to be held.

Could somebody please tell me is there a "right" ...or an "officially approved" PC one to hold and conform to here on TC? Any others straying from that are then labelled "misinformation" and "hidden"? (Or being a "dick"?) Is that how it works?

This is a genuine and hopefully polite inquiry. I've never been good at all that PC obfuscation.

Knowing the parameters and just how they are determined would be of great assistance in avoiding causing inadvertent offence when making any posts to Bilge.

Which part of NO POLITICS do you not understand?

It's not "politics" I was inquiring about swizzle. There's no need to get snappy here. I was POLITELY asking for some clarification on a far more grey area, namely that of what constitutes "disinformation" and just how that is determined.

The question is probably for those "with the power", rather than contributors, but if you have something constructive to add to the discussion, I for one would welcome your input. Arriving at a definitive answer may help us all to avoid offence in future here in this particular forum where it most applies.

[ Edited by TIKIGIKI on 2023-03-11 16:43:55 ]