TIKI OASIS IV - How was the Event? How was the Resort? How was The REEF?

Here goes the official launching of the U.S.S. BaxDog Chinese Junk Barge complete with poopdeck water blastercannon mate ready to use his watercannon to propel the U.S.S. BaxDog to Hyperdrive. Snicker and sneer provided by our one and only Atomic Cocktail.

That pic is too funny............... sorry bax........ I couldn't resist :)

crap it didnt come out!!!

Back to the drawring board :(

Can we please go back and Critique
International TIKI Day #1
It is so on topic
And I feel like I need some feed back
Can someone tell the Hawaiians that are living at my house still, that this is not their homeland, I just made it up!!
And just write to so as not to dirty up the board.
And send it to me pony express cause that is the way we used to do it.

OK, back to the subject matter at hand.
Oasis= really fun
critique= maybe more fun next time
Taking it personally= STUPID
BYE BYE!!

On 2004-05-19 00:41, Conga Mike wrote:
Post your opinion, don't attack others for theirs !!

Thanks Conga Mike. I agree. I think the challenge here is to argue your side of the coin without turning this thread into a flame war. Regarding the burlesque issue (btw-- I really don't have problem with burlesque!), I just didn't see how it fit into the Tiki genre. But it started a lively debate and my comments had absolutely nothing to do with anything personal against Conga Mike.

If I'm correct, Casey ultimately started this thread to ask us for feedback - publicly. After all, he did title the thread, TIKI OASIS IV - How was the Event? How was the Resort? How was The REEF? Just the act of leaving a comment, positive or negative, shows that we care about this event.

It blows me away how these comments, which are meant to improve the event -- therefore, benefitting everyone's experience, made people so huffy. The comments were not a personal attack (as I've stated now for the third time) to anyone however, some of the comments in defense of the event organizers seem to illustrate otherwise.

I'd like to think that the event organizers would want to put their best foot forward for an event thats got their name and reputation all over it. Right? I know its hard to read negative criticism, but really, how do you improve an event with positive criticsm only?

**Poly-Pop ***

He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-05-19 08:46 ]

I had no intention of igniting a "flame war". GOD, no. I've been involved in those and they are an utter waste of time. I would prefer to take up the subject in person sometime, if I have to. I didn't realize some of you are so sensitive about your cultural heritage. Frankly, I feel my off-handed reference to our version of "Tiki" as being a "white thing" (a snide generality at best, since my wife is the Tiki Goddess around here, and she's Mexican-Navajo, and CongaMike is Greek), was taken out of context, misconstrued and caused us to stray off Topic, not to mention my original point, which is NO ONE here can define Tiki in the strict sense, or hold anyone to any particular definition, since it's not only "impure" in its original 50s variation, but we've also brought it into the 21st Century, with its own influences. Hence: Tiki Oasis will never please everyone. The borders of definition are too fluid.

This is turning into a What Is Tiki and What Isn't Forum, and that's my fault. That's another thread I have no desire to start because I've said my peace on the topic and am frankly tired of it already.

I know one thing: sitting around bickering about what is Tiki and What Isn't, and What is White Culture (Punk, Country, Rockabilly, "Frasier") and What Ain't (Hip Hop, Jazz, Blues, Polynesian pagan religions, etc) is definitely NOT Tiki, in my book. Sorry I even went there. I guess I was a bit personally pissed Baby Doe felt the need to defend herself at all. I also put on big events and know what kind of pressure that entails, plus she is a good friend of mine, so maybe I was overly defensive. And I do not mean to dis Poly Pop or anyone else for expressing their views, either. No hard feelings here. I always welcome private corresponense if anyone feels the need to pick this thead up elsewhere.

It's Mai Tai Time. Peace and aloha from Thrillville.

[ Edited by: AquaZombie on 2004-05-19 10:49 ]

[ Edited by: floratina on 2004-05-19 13:25 ]

Well, this was a great thread for a while. Sad to see it has been experiencing "mission creep" to use a crappy buzz word. Since the original topic is long gone, I was going to lock this, but I won't. Instead, let me just nudge everyone back on track.

No more apologies.
No more explanations.
No more attacks.
No more weirdness.

Post here only if you want to share your Oasis experiences, post some pictures of the event, and offer some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, suggestions, or ideas for future Oasis's (Oasees? Oasississes?).

You know, like the first 10 or so pages.

You know, I'm a type-A hyper mo-fo in my normal mode (no way!), but when I'm heading out to Tiki Oasis I always try to force myself to remember that it's going to be somewhat on 'Hawaii time'. That means things are going to be a bit loose in the organizational department. And that's OK.

Yeah, you may have to plan ahead or wait for ice, you may have to circle the lot a few times to get a parking spot, you may experience something you didn't think was going to happen, but that's OK.

When I was planning the Inter'l Tiki Day gig at Sam's I did the best I could for someone only doing it for fun (Tiki Oasis is a money maker - do the math). But it was inevitable that some folks would start to whine about this or that - so I cancelled it. Let's not let that happen to Tiki Oasis.

Now, big group sex, er... I mean hug!

AquaZombie,

No one is disputing that the Mid-Century Tiki movement had racist aspects to it or even that it is an appropriation of Polynesian Culture. One can look at the works of Guy Huze or William M. Kay for the former. You also cite some good examples. If you want to start a post dealing with racism in the Tiki Movement please do so with all possible vigor. I whole heartedly approve.

What I disagree with are your following statements:

"I didn't know white people had their own culture!" she exclaimed. "They don't - that's the point," I said..."

Just remove "White" and add, for example, "Filipino","Mexican","Korean" or "Persian". Would you consider that racist? I sure would. So what makes using "White" any different? Nothing at all. Your ethnicity, your wife's ethnicity, my ethnicity and Conga Mike's ethnicity are irrelevant. It does not matter who it comes from or to whom it is directed; Racism is hateful and divisive. You can claim it is humor (though I fail to see the humor in it). It is mean-spirited. Additionally, it's generality makes it even more demeaning. It is stereotyping at it's worst. I think Herman Melville, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Cole Porter, Sylvia Plath, Harold Pinter, Aaron Copeland and John Updike, (just to name a random few) would also take exception.

What I find ironic is that Polynesian Pop makes a few suggestions on how to improve a PARTY, and a certain group acts as if the very GODS themselves have been insulted! In fact, they should swoop down from the airy perch on Olympus and smite him with all their mighty powers. Yet, one of their group makes a blatant racist statement and the tepid response is, "It's just his opinion" and "Your being too sensitive." Am I the only one who finds this wrong?

And talk about being sensitive: Brother, you are ready to quit after this one thread! This is a public forum and if you make such bold statements you had better be ready to defend them! If you can't take the heat you had better leave, because I've seen a lot worse over a lot less on Tiki Central.

If you leave perhaps the board will be improved, perhaps it will be worse. I cannot tell as I am not a fortune teller. I would like to think it would be the latter. It is up to you.

I know this post goes against what Martiki has asked us not to do, and will most likely lead to a locking of this thread. For that I most humbly apologize to him, to Hanford and the board as a whole as it is not my intention. I also apologize for going so far off topic. However, I feel such statements cannot go unanswered.

Aloha!

Do I have to stop this car? Turn around and put your seatbelts on, NOW!

Oh, I almost forgot......Wait 'til your father gets home!

I would like to add a point, if you all don't mind. I want everyone to think about this (after counting to 20)...are more controls and structure fitting for this easy-going and laid-back group? We can make the whole event like signing a car rental contract (isn't our registration form enough?), but I've always sensed that this event is really about hanging-out, relaxing, and simply going-with-the-flow.

I truly trust that you are all being VERY SINCERE AND HAVE THE BEST INTEREST OF THE GROUP IN MIND, when you are commenting. Thank you all for taking the time to help with the improvements.

Mahalo!

I invited some friends of mine who are not on TC, but do like Tiki/Lounge stuff. Here's what my friend Jill had to say about the event:

Thanks for letting me know about it! Your Tiki Central friends were all so nice, it was
refreshing to meet friendly people from the LA area. You frequent enough
bars and clubs, and you start to wonder if everyone wanders around with
their noses in the air!

as a longtime reader and never poster, i had to make a post. i think most of you totally missed the aquazombie guy's point. as someone who grew up on oahu my whole life, i have to agree with him. he was being lighthearted, not being racist. jeesus. i thought it was kinda funny. in hawaii, we are constantly making fun of other cultures; its how we survive on an island with so many other ethnic backrounds. ask anybody from hawaii to tell you a portagee joke. we do it across the board, nobody gets left out. its part of the spirit of aloha, believe it or not. it is the most un-pc place on earth, and i love it for that. i love the fact that the people of hawaii can make fun of each other and themselves. how else are you going to live on an island? anyway, the tiki oasis is always a blast, and i had a great time, my only bummers was that i couldnt see the screen, as it was too small. i miss the large sheet and hawaiian eye. that needs to come back. that and i would love to hear exotica poolside the whole time. speakers poolside, im sure we could get volunteer djs poolside all day . not back there with the vendors. other than that, carry on! it was a great time as usual. i look forward to next year. aloha nui loa...

I am not going to apologize or explain anything again - in deference to Martiki's wishes, and also because I have nothing to defend, since I know I am not a racist and do not feel the need to prove that to anyone - but I find it odd no one took note of the fact that in the quote, which I included to illustrate the difficulty in explaining our Tiki thing to "outsiders," the Asian lady said to MY ruddy face, without blinking, "I didn't know white people had their own culture," and my reponse, without flinching, was a simple joke we both laughed at. I didn't feel the urge to launch into a tirade defending Andy Griffith. Then she realized that a convention celebrating Polynesia by non-Polynesians was never meant to be taken that seriously anyway.Most of the music I love is Lounge which is "whiter" than Liberace's teeth, for God's sake.

I was going to respond snidely by saying "Hey, I couldn't replace the world 'white' with Mexican or Filipino in that sentence, because they HAVE a culture!" But I won't.
Might hit some thin skinnned folks the wrong way.

This reminds me of the "Seinfeld" episode where Jerry's dentist converts to Judism and starts making all these Jewish cracks to him as well as Catholic jokes, since he feels he's entitled to make 'em now that he is a Jewish ex-Catholic. Jerry takes his grief to a priest:

Jerry: "I think he converted strictly for the Jewish jokes!"

Priest: "And this offends you as a Jewish person?"

Jerry: "No! It offends me as a comedian!"

Then Kramer accuses Jerry of being a "rabid anti-dentite":

Kramer: "Next you'll be saying they (dentists) should have their own schools!"

Jerry: "But they DO have their own schools!"

As a white person (by birth, not conversion) I reserve the right to poke fun at my own people sometimes, and God knows, they deserve it. Most faces on American TV and movies are White, (and sadly, their shows suck, too), so I don't see how anyone would think I somehow missed the fact we dominate the Culture, therefore my "joke" was an ironic riff on this fact (and also the fact that a lot of the stuff we dig is derived from other cultures, but so what, I promote the mingling of cultures - it's the eventual way to World Peace. Jeez, I married a Mexican-Navajo, isn't that "pennance" enough?). I just won't make fun of us whiteys around here again because it is never my intention to offend anyone, ever. That is not how I get my kicks.

I never said I was leaving the board, by the way, just this tired topic. Aloha.

Personally, I was not offended by aqua zombie at all! His (or her) post just sounded a little too much like that "I've eaten my own mana in tropical jungles in the Amazon" post a few months back, where the one dude (or dude-ess) came off as being more tiki then thou, and insulted Poly-pop!!!

But I doubt Aqua zombie had the same sentiment in mind, and I agree with some of the statements he/she made..about how we sort ofappropriated tiki culture from overseas....but imitation is flattery, right?

So I don't feel guilt of much besides having a better time then most of my non-tiki friends on mother's day! It was a blast!!

"He/She?" I said I was married to the Tiki Goddess, are you inferring I'm a lesbian now? Must have been that pink robe I wore at Oasis....

Anyway, one last aside to real kamaaina:

Mahalo for your post. What I miss most about the islands - and which you can't really get in Palm Springs, though they're nice too - is the innate warmth and good nature of the people, even when they gently made fun of me for asking where the local "tiki bar" was. To me, that light heartedness IS the spirit and allure of "Aloha," along with the beautiful scenery, and why I would love to live there someday, despite the fact not a single native islander I encountered on either Kauai or Oahu had ever even HEARD the names "Martin Denny" or "Arthur Lyman."

Hi aqua...no, I read your post too quick..truth is, I never know for sure if the posters are male or female..so to be polite, I say "he or she"

I forgot that "he/she" is for transgendered personel only!! ha ha!

. in hawaii, we are constantly making fun of other cultures; it is the most un-pc place on earth, and i love it for that. i love the fact that the people of hawaii can make fun of each other and themselves.

It's time the mainland Americans followed suit. This PC thing is getting way outta hand!! I work in Berkeley and deal with it on a daily basis.
Talking of, Atomic Cocktail, you should move to Berkeley. You'll be welcomed with open arms !!

Boingo, you don't know Atomic Cocktail...

PC at it's heart is mainly about bashing "Whitey". That's it's main purpose. Bash "Whitey" and you can prove that you're "down with the people"!! There's no consequences - you even get to mock him when he points out the double standard and hypocracy.

What I miss most about the islands ... is the innate warmth and good nature of the people

Try the west side (Makaha) of Oahu and finding yourself in the wrong neighborhood and see how fast you can run haole boy!

Maybe (big maybe) 50 years ago it was all 'aloha', but now the 'aloha' spirit is about the same as if your car broke down in South Central LA.

Please note - AquaZombie, I like you so this isn't a stab at you, bruddah!

I am so glad no one has to explain themselves.
I would have to much to read if they did.
PLEASE lock this in a drawer so we can continue being white.

I would be remiss if I didn't set straight the tale of the missing tiki dress I described at the beginning of this thread. I want to thank all of you who alerted me to the Tiki News Lost and Found message about the "purple and black tiki outfit". I responded to the poster with a full description and it appears that it is the one! Not stolen, accidently stuffed in someone else's bag after a day of festivities. I can imagine the look on the guys face when he pulled that thing out of his pack "What the...?"

TikiBong - no offense taken, pally, we're all being subjective here. I was speaking from personal experience in a general sense. I mean, we did get our rental car broken into while parked overnight in a Honolulu hotel, so it wasn't one big lei-covered welcome wagon!! I was also warned to stay away from certain dark alleys but you can say that about any big city anywhere. I live in Oakland which gets an undeserved rap because all you hear about is the crime, when the truth is, there's so much more to it that is positive. (Like it's not just the home of the drive-by, but also the Mai Tai!) But overall, Hawaii was paradise on Earth, especially Kauai, at least for me. My wife wouldn't want to live there full time, though, since she's really into live theater (as an actress) and she doesn't think there's enough there to keep her busy, plus she'd feel too isolated. Me, that's what I'm looking for! A 60s Japanese style ranch house would be nice to keep there as a time share. Someday.

TikiMick -no offense taken there either, my man - I LOVE lesbians! I have a lot in common with them! My wife is part lesbo and boy, am I glad of it - I can hang up all the pinups I want without getting any PC backlash (she's a feminist, too!) plus she actually likes em! The perfect marriage!

Everyone else - hey man, it's all good, I dig everybody here (from a distance, I haven't actually met most of you, as far as I can tell), no matter what out petty differences. Tiki People are Good People in my book, of any stripe or color.

Well..... I must say I understand both sides of AquaZombies and Atomics arguments. But quotes like these are what gets people in trouble.

""I didn't know white people had their own culture!" she exclaimed. (fine that's her ignorance)

"They don't - that's the point," I said" (well,.... you should know as well as I do. Whites do have their own cultures depending on where they are from).

"If white people really have their "own" culture, I wish they'd show it by pulling up their baggy pants over those pasty butt cracks, turning around their baseball caps and no longer calling each other "dog."

Sign of the times my friend. If you lived in Sweden (a mostly "white" populated area with quite a bit of "Culture"), You probably wouldn't be exposed to as much of that "dog" mentality as you would living in "Oakland". (not bagging on Oakland!! I love Tower of Power!!). But I wouldn't expect any less if I lived in Compton, Los Angeles.

Just like my parents who are from Europe (Pops migrated from N. Africa to where my mom is from..... France) always used to chatise me for smoking pot and listening to music like Rush, Zepplin, etc. And just like I'm sure there are people that dislike those that wear Pooh-Bah hats, pink bath robes, and go around toughting a "Hedonistic" lifestyle, or have a gansta/rap influence, amogst other influences........... All of these things are influencing our youth AND!!! our adults. It's just a sign of the times and the "influence du the area you live in" like it or not.

What was it that John Lennon said?? Kill all the lawyers 1st!! uh..... maybe that was Shakespere.......well anyway.......

Another example...... Most Jews are considered "white" and have a culture, traditions and influences as old as the Pyramids.

I could easily see the 2nd quote written/spoken by Aquazombie would definetely offend certain people........... say........ Europeans. You know?? The area where where modern culture came from?? Barring the Renesciance as pissing in the wind, usually people that have been diluted to the level of a Jerry Springer show guest may have negative things to say about anybodies culture, quirks, or upbringing. But it shows a lack of class.

I understand that Aquazombie was just trying to make a point about how different cultures adopt others stories, religions, traditions, etc. But I think you've gotta watch taking shots at your own "white" brothers/sisters, even if it was intended to be self inflicting. Yeah I laugh at Eddie Murphy when he talks about "whities" and they're funny ways, and when Chris Rock makes jokes about "crackas". It's very funny stuff!! Good comedy comes from some sterotypical truth and is usually exactly that...... very general and not meaning everyone is the same. But it doesn't come without their critics either. I think if you're gonna post something on this website, be ready for any rebuttals.

I do want to thank you for the "give-a ways" on Saturday and the "Drive in movie". (getting back to the original focus of this thread). I agree with others that the screen was too small, the movie lost my attention, and that the sound was really hard to hear. But would like to see something like what others have recommended for next year. Bigger screen, better sound, and a movie that would keep peoples attention.

As far as exotica, I would love to see the exotica dancers try to incorporate some sort of polynesian theme of some sort. Even if its just getting down to a grass skirt and some coconut paisties. Just humor me!!

The thing that probably tee'd me the most was when I was when I just finished showering and somebody was knocking at the door. I shouted a response twice to who ever it was on the outside that I was coming. I thought it was Cheekygirl because they started to open the door. I just got my shorts on when a girl that worked for the Hotel barged her way in and said, "I'm the cover turner overer...... or hospitality hostess"........ er something like that. Quite frankly, I thought that was an invasion of privacy. I felt that a better procedure would be..... if she didn't get a response, to not enter the rooms without permission of the guest. What if someone were having sex, or had money laid out all over the room?? I'm not saying that the employees would be dishonest, but a policy of not going in unless the guest were there would keep everybody honest.

Sorry to be so long winded and hopefully I didn't offend anybody with my post. If I did, please forgive me.

Everybody lets kiss and make up!! Bring another MaiTai!!! Great Tiki Oasis everyone involved!!

I felt that a better procedure would be..... if she didn't get a response, to not enter the rooms without permission of the guest.

I can see how it could feel a bit like an invasion of privacy, but actually as one who travels a lot (too much), I've realized that this is the convention. The hotel staff can't only go in when they get a response - they'd never get their job done. So if you want privacy the best option to use the "Do not disturb" and/or the manual locking latch that's typically provided. I usually put the "do not disturb" up right away and leave it there during my whole stay. We don't clean our sheets and towels every day at home, so no reason for it on the road.

-Randy

Good point aquarj!!!