Real Oceanic Art in Ohio - and they said it couldn't happen!

http://www.robbhamel.com

Black velvet art that embraces
the darkest side of Tiki.

[ Edited by: Robb Hamel 2008-10-06 10:07 ]

WOW!!! :o

What a great find Robb. I bet you freaked out when you went in that place.

Did you buy anything?

Cheers and Mahalo,
Jeff

No, I didn't buy anything, but I've got my eye on one though!

When we saw a tiny carving in the window, we said, "Nah," and started to walk away, thinking there's no way anybody in "Kountry Kute Kollectables" Ohio had any Oceanic stuff. I'm sure glad we turned back.

Congrats for that find, Rob, it gives me hope to see that some people out there are still selling, AND buying that stuff. Since the 60s it sure has faded from the public consciousness. Most of this is probably made for sale art, but the PNG artists imbue their work with such patina and look of authenticity, it works for me. As Picasso said, as long as a piece carries the spirit of the art form, it does not need to be a hundred years old. Some nice examples there.

That stuff is all from my PNG collector in Indiana. That's where we got the decor for Hale Tiki. A couple of threads on his stuff. The pics are dead right now as I move servers. I'll fix them later. Sorry.

:music: It's a small world after all :music: :)

The dealer has all of the provenance on these items so they are not made for sale. Some were first contact pieces from the Hunstein Forest (in particular, a beautiful adze!).

http://www.robbhamel.com

Black velvet art that embraces
the darkest side of Tiki.

[ Edited by: robb hamel 2008-09-23 06:03 ]

On 2008-09-22 09:35, bigbrotiki wrote:
Congrats for that find, Rob, it gives me hope to see that some people out there are still selling, AND buying that stuff. Since the 60s it sure has faded from the public consciousness. Most of this is probably made for sale art, but the PNG artists imbue their work with such patina and look of authenticity, it works for me. As Picasso said, as long as a piece carries the spirit of the art form, it does not need to be a hundred years old. Some nice examples there.

Kinda like the new Luau?

On 2008-09-22 09:35, bigbrotiki wrote:
...as long as a piece CARRIES THE SPIRIT of the art form, it does not need to be a hundred years old.

:)

On 2008-09-22 21:08, bigbrotiki wrote:

On 2008-09-22 09:35, bigbrotiki wrote:
...as long as a piece CARRIES THE SPIRIT of the art form, it does not need to be a hundred years old.

:)

Picasso's ghost would be stoked!

( but...they have the real PnG!)

On 2008-09-22 21:17, RevBambooBen wrote:
( but...they have the real PnG!)

Who, the new Luau? Well, Benster, that is certainly good to hear, maybe that'll balance the Buddha out a little. As the exterior shows, your part of the work is stellar, of course. But back to this fine gallery, and its offerings.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-09-22 21:24 ]

On 2008-09-22 21:20, bigbrotiki wrote:
The new Luau? Well, Benster, that is certainly good to hear, maybe that'll balance the Buddha out a little. As the exterior shows, your part of the work is stellar, of course. But back to this tore and its offerings.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-09-22 21:22 ]

Y'All need to not chime in until "you see" the finished product. ( and taste and drink, etc...)

aka "pictures" like in this thread!!!

When are you's ever gonna learn!!!?

Do you believe everything you (just) read?

PnG in O-Hi-O rocks!!!

PnG anywhere Rocks!

Puffer Fish rock too!

Ouuh, Ben is hurt that we are dissing his Luau! Hey, I am GLAD to be corrected and find out that that Ohio PNG stuff is just as authentic as it looks! I was just making an assumption, saying "PROBABLY made for sale art", because it is a fact that most PNG art available on the free market nowadays is. The whole question of authenticity and the inflated prices and the looting of the PNG people's art by whities at the turn of the century makes the whole point too complex to discuss here anyway, and as I said I believe tourist art is of equal value if made with mana.

The Luau will certainly benefit from your mana, Ben, but I also know what it started out as, and what it got paired down to since, and, most importantly, what it's namesake stood for.

Pufferfish are cool. Ohio... not so cool.

On 2008-09-22 22:02, bigbrotiki wrote:
Ouuh, Ben is hurt that we are dissing his Luau! Hey, I am GLAD to be corrected and find out that that Ohio PNG stuff is just as authentic as it looks! I was just making an assumption, saying "PROBABLY made for sale art", because it is a fact that most PNG art available on the free market nowadays is. The whole question of authenticity and the inflated prices and the looting of the PNG people's art by whities at the turn of the century makes the whole point too complex to discuss here anyway, and as I said I believe tourist art is of equal value if made with mana.

The Luau will certainly benefit from your mana, Ben, but I also know what it started out as, and what it got paired down to since, and, most importantly, what it's namesake stood for.

I don't know about that Sven. Have you been to PNG? Who here has? There is no tourist market in PNG. Most of the places these pieces come from see 100-200 people a year come through with guides, max. One of the pieces pictured above is the only one in existence.

See the picture attached to it? That is from a museum where the natives recreated their men's house ceremony. That piece was created for the museum. The one standing in that shop is the real deal and the only one you will likely ever see.

Like the Native Americans, they create an object for a ceremony and may burn them after or just toss them aside.

There are small pieces done for fun or tourist trade, but for the most part, it is all real. That is the beauty of PNG. It remains relatively untouched and its culture intact.

On 2008-09-22 22:02, bigbrotiki wrote:
Ouuh, Ben is hurt that we are dissing his Luau!

I was just making an assumption,

I'm not hurt. Just having fun.

But, when you assume, you make an ass of you and me!

( bad news bears!!!)

Back to Ohio now.....

Ohio Rocks
because the Ohana has Robb Hamel
as our intrepid scout
searching for PNG amongst the Arts and Crap!
When you mentioned this on the phone last week
i thought that we'd get some cool photos of 4 or 5 cool pieces
but that place is a treasure trove!
Please send me one of each! :lol:

Way to go Robb!
Thank you for the post!

I concur. It's these finds and these posts that keep Tiki Central alive. And the reactions to, and discussion about them.

Rob, I am interested in the prices on this stuff.

There is that dealer in Indiana, who I visited about five years ago. He goes over to PNG every year or so, fills a shipping container (roughly the size of a train car) with artifacts, and then wholesales the loot out of a plastic shed in his yard.

I have bought a half dozen items from the guy at prices that I thought were a major bargain, but I also know that a lot of the stores that sell 'priceless tribal antiquities' get their stuff from our pal in Indiana.

There is a shop in San Francisco that tried to sell me a yipwan for $5000, and I got an almost identical one in Indiana for like $200. I know of places in Florida, Manhattan, and elsewhere that all get more or less the same stock of PNG treasures, and I think that many (or perhaps even most) of them come to them via Indiana.

There is nothing wrong with this, I am not critical of the process at all (more or less everything you buy in most stores comes from some sort of wholesaler who gets it from the manufacturer - nothing different here), I am just wondering if our newly discovered Ohio treasure trove is priced similarly to the San Francisco, Manhattan, and Florida shops, who mark their things up by as much as 2000% or more.

I do not think our Indiana pal deals directly to the public anymore (awwww!), so finding the best prices on this stuff is important to collectors of authentic PNG artifacts (old, new, or otherwise).

Here's me in Indiana!

James,
He does indeed still sell to the public. What others do after the sale, he can't control. His intention is to get it out to people who appreciate it at reasoanble prices.
They still go over a couple of times a year.

...and I bet all this stuffed comes from untouched tribes that have made it solely for ritual purposes, after which it was discovered deep in the jungle by an intrepid explorer who fought off headhunters and warring tribesmen to bring these treasures to civilization...right, Swanky? :wink:

On 2008-09-23 06:16, Swanky wrote:
I don't know about that Sven. Have you been to PNG? Who here has? There is no tourist market in PNG.
There are small pieces done for fun or tourist trade, but for the most part, it is all real. That is the beauty of PNG. It remains relatively untouched and its culture intact.

By the containerful? I never said it was tourist art or for the tourist trade, just that it was made for sale, which means not in a ritual context. Primitive art is an industry there, just like in Africa. Most of the imported art you see for sale in shops nowadays is anywhere between 20 to 2 years old. Which, as I said before, is totally fine by me when it looks as authentic as Rob's find does.

On 2008-09-23 10:47, bigbrotiki wrote:
...and I bet all this stuffed comes from untouched tribes that have made it solely for ritual purposes, after which it was discovered deep in the jungle by an intrepid explorer who fought off headhunters and warring tribesmen to bring these treasures to civilization...right, Swanky? :wink:

On 2008-09-23 06:16, Swanky wrote:
I don't know about that Sven. Have you been to PNG? Who here has? There is no tourist market in PNG.
There are small pieces done for fun or tourist trade, but for the most part, it is all real. That is the beauty of PNG. It remains relatively untouched and its culture intact.

By the containerful? I never said it was tourist art or for the tourist trade, just that it was made for sale, which means not in a ritual context. Primitive art is an industry there, just like in Africa. Most of the imported art you see for sale in shops nowadays is anywhere between 20 to 2 years old. Which, as I said before, is totally fine by me when it looks as authentic as Rob's find does.

That's pretty cynical, and has some truth.

The guy in Indiana is a anthropologist who is a collector of course. He brought stuff over and sold to museums and other collectors to fund his trips which started in 1969. That's been the case ever since. But the operation is bigger. I have walked through the stuff with him and he says "that's just a fake piece." Like the bat figures. But the majority he says things like "that is from a very remote village we rarely get to. Only a handful of outsiders go there in a year." As was the case when I inquired about a yam mask like Trader Vic's uses in their logo. When I was there last, he had an Oratory table similar to mine from the Korogo Village, but it was all red. Much less ornate. It was much older than mine and mine is 75+ years old. Some things he had pulled out of lakes. Stuff just tossed off over the decades. And there were plenty of things in that group just brought over that he refused to sell. They were for his own collection.

Some of it is just made with the notion someone will buy it. Much of it is discarded items from houses and Men's houses. A good deal of it is 20+ years old.

There are some places with stuff that they bring from villages and store for people to buy. But, a good deal of it is the "real thing". There are far too many objects there that are too large for any tourist. Canoes, house gables, gable masks that are 5 feet tall, slit drums that are so large it takes a tractor to move them, lodge poles 15 feet long.

Not cynical, just quoting facts: Generations of anthropologists have been sweeping the Melanesian islands for native art since the turn of the century. Remember Karl Woermann's quote about Oceanic art in the BOT ("Who ever has seen them.."), the Western world had the "Fever" since the late 1800s. The Hamburg South Sea Expedition of 1908-1910 alone brought home some 50 000 artifacts. I just heard in a lecture at the Hamburg Ethnology museum that their ship passed on some areas along the coast because they found out that these parts had been "cleaned up" (the lecturer used that expression) by an American expedition that came through before them. And that was in 1908! -Way before "primitive" art become popular in the 50s and 60s. By the 1970s, 98% percent of all ancient PNG art had wandered into museums and private collections, and had become quite expensive, and so a commercial trade and fabrication developed to fill the demand.

But there is no single, simple black and white truth, like in all aspects of cultural evolution. Of course there were and are still native carvers that did some work for their tribes, and still anthropologists that were/are collecting for whatever reason: Their research, their collection, or for commercial gain.

So I am not doubting your seller at all, I am just pointing out that the majority of that art available out there today is relatively new. Kind of like Polynesian pop Tikis. The difference is that one is not recognized as "authentic" art yet, while the other is sold as such.

Kwel Find Rob !! Take me there some time !

[ Edited by: HulaZombie 2008-09-24 04:51 ]

Bill! Nice to see you here. I'll call you soon - maybe we could go over on a Sunday?

Thanks to everyone for chiming in; the comments have given me a look inside the world of Oceanic art trading - a world I've never seen.

Thanks.