TeaKEY's critikeys (starting new p12)

Sorry to come off harsh. My comments were directed both ways, not singling out anyone in particular.

Except that BK is an incredible carver and artist and has 14 tons of credibility.

I didn't know you could weigh credibility but I found out just yesterday that you can.

So, in the sense that it's humans jabbing at each other on the internet, then yeah.
But it's more than that. You start black brushing proven artists and saying things like "that's a punk move," to a guy like tiki diablo, you've got problems here.

No matter how much it seems this way in the last year, this isn't a personal blog site for whatever you're doing or thinking.
I say "you" as an encompassing generality of the readership here.

Even the carver forum is getting that way. It's a lot of show and tell and the talented are getting squeezed out of the bandwidth by the kindergarteners.

This thread is just another example of the same thing.
It's even titled "Here's what I think" and there's a place for that and it's called Bilge.

Bring an "A" game.
Or if you're just trying out your chops don't swing the kini kini like you're the baddest on the block.

There are kahunas here already and unless you're bringing gifts, major talent or a canoe load of warriors - then come in humbly or move on to the next island.

I know this place is supposed to be a place of "aloha."
Aloha also means goodbye.

Let me start by apologizing for allowing myself to be drawn into this dirt clod fight. I've been following this for awhile now, I honestly thought it was all a joke at first, just some razzing between friends...

Boy, was I wrong.

Apparently it's someone trying to be the new bully on the playground. I sat and watched, kind of chuckling about some of the comments, until I read pablus' post.

Yes BK is a talented carver, I will agree. So is Gman. There are two different styles of carving happening there.

That's not what bothered me, it's this:

"Even the carver forum is getting that way. It's a lot of show and tell and the talented are getting squeezed out of the bandwidth by the kindergarteners. "

Everybody has to start somewhere and to say that some people SHOULDN'T show their work is kind of elitist. In case you hadn't noticed, the carvers are very supportive of one another, regardless of skill level. If the so called kindergartners don't post, how are they supposed to know whether or not they're improving? Isn't it up to the "upper grades" to help teach the up and coming? I for one, though not a "proven artist" by what I'm guessing are your standards, like to see what other people are doing, to see what direction things are being taken.
Besides, I don't think the "kahunas" are being squeezed out, just not posting as often.

Once again, sorry for the rant, playground politics always get me riled up.

If anyone wants me, I'll be over there on the monkey bars.

In case you hadn't noticed, the quality of work on the carving forum is diminishing.
There is a reason the skilled are not posting as often.

I'm a big carver supporter. I've bought pieces off of a lot of them and many of the better ones are very real friends.
I love a lot of the work there and enjoy the community. I even like a few of the pieces I've seen of teaKey's. He's got a bit of skill. So do many of the elementary and intermediate carvers, artists, musicians, poets, seamstresses, etc.

But an unending supply of aloha for a weak signal to noise ratio makes the board weak. Surely you can see that. I'm not suggesting that people only post masterpieces worthy of a museum, although that would be cool; I'm suggesting that they humbly accept guidance from those that are better. In this particular thread, here is a guy with intermediate skills who is bristling under a very calm post from a master carver. Yes, a master carver and artist. There are levels of skill here that some of the hackier carvers are never going to achieve unless they humble themselves and not adopt the attitude of "this is good because I made it." Take some freaking criticism from those who are masters.

That Gman post that someone referenced (and by the way, I didn't say gman was bad or lesser skilled, I merely said that BK is a master carver) was a battle of "hey, you can't talk that way to me, I've got 3409 posts and have carved 5934 tikis, blah blah blah..." in response to some things that were bothering BK, a master carver. That argument was fine. They got through it although the drawing up of sides was a bit melodramatic.

Now Gman is a fine carver. He obviously puts a lot of time and effort into his pieces. But that skirmish that was referenced was all about a wounded ego. This place, Tiki Central, I mean, has become a tip-toeing around people's egos kind of a place and that makes the experience here suffer.

Certainly there are allowances for beginners to post their work. I'm not suggesting otherwise. I truly enjoyed Swanky's first ugly piece of junk that he carved. It was awful. He knew it. Everybody knew it. So what did he do? Pout and run away or demand to be placed on the same tier as Ben? Heck no, he threw a party with some of the best carvers and upped his game. He still isn't this great carver, but he also isn't filling up the carver forum with 67 pictures of his latest.

Don't get all feisty like I'm intruding on the carver forum. I've seen your posts - I like them.
I love it there on the carver forum. To me it's the soul of Tiki Central. I read stories to those folks with lots of mana and aloha, you included. I'm wanting this whole community to be a place of excellence, instead of being filled with second rate practice tikis, music, sewing, poetry, etc. I've made many great, life long friends here and feel like there are plenty more to be made. Except for Flounder, who I live in terror of.

If King Kukulele or Iuka Grogg or Mr. Ho or Kanekila told me "you song-a, she is a-no good." I wouldn't get angry or distraught. I'd ask for tips, give them writing credit and move on. That's the way I would hope everyone would react here instead of "who are you to tell me about it" or "that's a punk move."

OK, now as penance for dare speaking ill of the carver forum, I'll post another story there about Pele today.

I've been thinking a lot about this as I wade through certain threads with exasperation, this thread just pulled the trigger and I had a little time on my hands today. So please don't think I'm disparaging or discouraging young, learning artists. I just want to see some of octane's carvings or Rain's paintings and I haven't lately.

Hey, I disagree completely about the quality of the carving zone slipping! Don't know what the broohaha is all about on this thread, but...

Paipo, Gman, Benz, Buzzy, TikiDav, 4WD and that uppity newcomer Babalu are doing amazing work and posting regularly. I think they post TOO much and should stop typing, git back to the carving stand and git them chips flying! If you keep up with them, the other pros around, and everybody on the San Diego Chop Chop threads, how much excellent carving do you need?

Carving on TC has never been better. Never. And of course you have to start somewhere, check out Gman's first posts and his latest.

Cripes, have you seen Babalu's work? He's only done like three Tiki's. They're freaking masterpieces! The guy must have 1000 magic fingers.

And when the chips are down, Buzzy's around.

On 2007-04-27 10:12, Cammo wrote:
...and that uppity newcomer Babalu are doing amazing work

I have to admit that this IS possibly the best thing seen in the Creating Tiki forum since the beginning of 2007. Thank you Babalu.

On 2007-04-27 10:12, Cammo wrote:
Hey, I disagree completely about the quality of the carving zone slipping! Don't know what the broohaha is all about on this thread, but...

Paipo, Gman, Benz, Buzzy, TikiDav, 4WD and that uppity newcomer Babalu are doing amazing work and posting regularly. I think they post TOO much and should stop typing, git back to the carving stand and git them chips flying! If you keep up with them, the other pros around, and everybody on the San Diego Chop Chop threads, how much excellent carving do you need?

Carving on TC has never been better. Never. And of course you have to start somewhere, check out Gman's first posts and his latest.

Cripes, have you seen Babalu's work? He's only done like three Tiki's. They're freaking masterpieces! The guy must have 1000 magic fingers.

And when the chips are down, Buzzy's around.

Barely scratches the surface of the carving that used to be on TC.

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer 2007-04-27 13:43 ]

Some musings, take them as you will...

Creating Tiki has never been about showcasing great stuff... it's always been a place to talk about the process primarily, in my eyes at least. And since the best carvers and artists have less room for improvement in their skills, is it really surprising that they start to post less of their own work in those sections? After all, for them more than others who are looking to hone their skills, posting what they're working on is a bit of a mutual masterbation exercise. Unless -- and this is a biggie -- they have something to post as a demonstration. Taking good demonstration pics is a bit of a pain in the keister to do, so I don't expect to see them all that often. And hanging out just to tell other people how they can be better can feel uppity (and no good deed goes unpunished -- as you saw with Tiki Diablo in this very thread). They certainly don't have less love for creating tiki stuff, they just get less out of that forum, and that's totally okay.

On the other hand! I think it's very fair to assert that those who have less skill could maybe stand to think a bit about why they are posting before they post. Have they come up with a new carving or creating technique that they want to discuss? Have they come up against a particular issue they want some feedback on? Have they created something that they think can be better, but they're not quite sure how? In short -- ***are they posting something that can generate some discussion about the process?***Those are all fantastic reasons to post in the Creating Tiki section, as far as I'm concerned, regardless of skill level.

But... is the poster just posting their stuff because it seems the thing to do? If we're going to be really honest here -- just because they want to hear some words of encouragement? It's hard to see the harm in that, except for Pablus' very good point: signal to noise. Talking just to hear your own voice doesn't go over well in the real world, and it kinda gums up the works here, too -- although here, at least people can just skip your thread. But you wind up with a hundred threads of people talking just to hear their own voice and... you see the problem? Perhaps a bit of self-editing would be useful -- asking oneself (with a lot of honesty) how the post they are thinking of making of use and interest to others. If the connection is tenuous, perhaps consider scaling back the post, or waiting until you have a real need to post.

One very big caveat, so that you can take my post with a big grain of salt, if you'd like: because I'm not a creator of tiki objects, I just don't spend a lot of time in there. I figure, the good completed stuff will eventually make its way into pictures on other parts of the site. I know I'm missing some good stuff, but that's okay -- I just can't take the time to wade through all the stuff that's less polished -- it's not interesting to me, and I don't have any useful feedback to give. It's just not the section for me.

On 2007-04-27 13:54, Humuhumu wrote:

Creating Tiki has never been about showcasing great stuff...

then by all means, start a Great Stuff Showcase forum.

On 2007-04-26 21:00, squid wrote:

On 2007-04-25 20:36, HelzTiki wrote:

BRILLIANT!

On 2007-04-27 14:18, Feelin' Zombified wrote:

On 2007-04-27 13:54, Humuhumu wrote:

Creating Tiki has never been about showcasing great stuff...

then by all means, start a Great Stuff Showcase forum.

i think creating is about several things. it's for beginners to see what peopo think. hopefully we'll see some constructive criticism. it's about watching the progress of an artist's skills. and it's about showing the best work of modern tiki artists, so beginners can see what's possible. benzart and tama are two great examples of this. i love watching their progress as another masterpiece takes shape. i love seeing terrific artists like johnny p, gman and pdrake improve their skills. and i like seeing new artists like sneaky and tiki-kate bravely post their first attempts. i'm known as a voracious collector, but my favorite forum is creating/tiki carving. mahaloz to the carvers of all skill levels.

[ Edited by: kingstiedye 2007-04-27 17:11 ]

Thank you Kingstiedye, I think you said it well for us peeps on the carving forum, it's all
about showing "what's possible." And I think it's okay to offer supportive comments to the
"kindergartners" who are just starting, in much the same way that parents and grandparents
encourage toddlers at their first steps. It seems alright to offer simple complimentary
remarks when someone finds a nice mug at a flea market, what's the difference.

Just don't tell us it's "the best evar in its cadigoree".

I took a little bit of time and really thought about what pablus said, re-read his post and all the replies, and did some perusing throughout the site.

pablus, I owe you an apology. Instead of taking a moment to allow your post to sink in, I had a knee-jerk reaction.

After doing a tour of alot of threads, I can honestly see your point. There does seem to be a lack of constructive criticism, advice, and direction out there. However, it could be being sent via pm's instead of getting posted. Most people seem to react better to a private word than a public spectacle.

"Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger." -- Franklin P. Jones

That being said, pablus please do not tip-toe around.

Tip Toe?

I've lost a lot of mass but not enough to do tip-toeing.

Heath, 'ol pal, my personal penance to the carvers for disparaging their unique community is forthcoming.
2 more stories. It's all I got. Besides, I wouldn't post a carving in there now if it was better than Michelangelo.
Even Ben would call me names and he loves everybody. :wink:

I don't carve anyway.
Unless it's a pineapple or lime.

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wow what a sweet new mug.

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on this one.

Meh, that tired old design? Boooo-rrring!!

This is not off to a good start.
I mean new start.

On 2007-07-18 14:01, teaKEY wrote:
wow what a sweet new mug.

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on this one.

Doesn't this belong in the GREAT STUFF SHOWCASE? Not the one for the comets, but the one for the pictures.

Hey Guys, YOu are right! Page 12 started off as bad as everything you guys have started. Take it from the experts, TikiGreg (Awesome name and would be even funnier if your actual name wasn't even Greg) :lol:, TekoTeko (Oh yeah), and TikiSkip.

I got a joke for you guys: What do you call a tiki without any arms or legs that you throw across the water??
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That's Right! TikiSkip :wink:

Knock knock, Who's there? Teko, Teko who? Tekoteko, Tekoteko Who? Exactly. :)

Have a great day everyone :drink:

[ Edited by: teaKEY 2007-07-19 06:16 ]

Ha! Now that is funny.
No I mean it.
That was one of your best post.
But I'm so fat I would just sink like a rock.
Teakey I'm sorry dude I just can't believe you
of all people wanted this thread to come back.
There is actually a picture of a TRAIN WRECK on this thread.
Teakey train wrecks are not good that means it's something so bad you can't help but look.
You fire up some good people on this thread.
I would let this one die teakey.
Again please accept my appology.

Skip

Thats was one of your nicer postings in a while. I don't know why there ever has to be disagreements towards another TC member when we all pretty much like more of the same things in life. I can see disagreements on areas but it shouldn't become personal. This thread had a lot of good and instead of creating a bunch of wasted space for new posts that might not have a home, its probably better to just keep posting ideas in an older thread. At least 25% of TC threads are wasted topics that could have been merged. 25%, thats a lot.

ps, if your a little heavy, thats might be a TC norm, this isn't exactly a health club forum.

What, no joke about me?? Bah! :(

Well it would go something like this, but you can finish the rest in your mind.

On 2007-07-19 07:54, teaKEY wrote:

Well it would go something like this, but you can finish the rest in your mind.

Sorry, I'm from Missouri...

LOL, best thred rezurektion EVAR...

Hoarding: Trash as Treasure
Could this count with tiki??

http://health.msn.com/centers/mentalhealth/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100166292&GT1=10208

On 2007-07-19 05:59, teaKEY wrote:
Who's there? Teko, Teko who? Tekoteko, Tekoteko Who? Exactly.
[ Edited by: teaKEY 2007-07-19 06:16 ]

Oh wait. I get it. I'm not qualified to post on your thread. If you'll notice, all criticisms I have made have been about grammar or writing style, I haven't said anything about your "art" here.

Now, we all do different things teaKEY. You make mugs. I make acerbic remarks. What's the difference? Well, I'd like to think that I'm good at making acerbic remarks.

Woops. I guess I just showed my ass in your thread. Which, funny enough, seems to be what this thread exists to do. I was just following your lead...the precedent set by this thread is that you don't need to be an in demand artist to make comments on other people's work. And honestly, shouldn't your comments about people's art go in the other thread you started, for comments, not pictures, on the General Tiki forum, not here? And shouldn't the pictures of other people's art that you're using without permission go in the other thread you started on General tiki for pictures, not comments?

If you need me to break this down into simpler terms and shorter words, I'll be glad to do so, but we can save that for PM so that I don't have to show both ass-cheeks to all the good people of TC.

-TekoTeko

On 2007-07-19 17:25, teaKEY wrote:
Hoarding: Trash as Treasure

Then I guess my stock is going up.

(You figure it out yet?)

...a thousand shares of TRASH, BUY! BUY! BUY!

*nice pot btw! :wink: a comet, hmmm?