The Root of Jimmy Buffet Bashing

On 2003-12-18 23:15, Basement Kahuna wrote:
I am a snob, and that's why I don't like Jimmy Buffett.

Bwahahahaha!!! Yeah me too, and I fricken live in Key West!

On 2004-03-05 21:45, Bwana Tiki wrote:
I like cheap cotton "Hawaiian shirts" those slick poly things make my skin crawl. I have more tiki things than any other objects. My uke is mostly plastic and I play right said fred on it. I like to drink rum from coconuts and did so at a punk show last night,I love LA cause I can get a nut @ midnight and rum till 2. I have a few tommy bahama shirts I got as gifts and I wear them. I got nicotine stains on my fingers, I hate rege

FYI in case you don't know bro Hawaiian Shirts were originally bark cloth made for the Big Island cowboys to wear. Later when the colorful versions were popularly made to sell to the tourists in the early and middle part of the 20th century, it was Rayon otherwise known as "artificial silk" that was the expected norm. This artificial silk, unlike polyester, is breathable and elegant to wear. Try one and you'll know the difference. Having said that I have as many cotton Hawaiians as Rayon as I won't pass up a cool print just because it is cotton (I will though if it is 100% polyester)! :P

On 2004-03-06 10:03, sungod wrote:
Let's face it. Most places that call themselves a tiki bar have just thrown some thatch on the roof and stick a little umbrella in your drink.Ask about exotica and you get a sly grin and a "are you really into that kinky stuff?" Go figure.

This is the truth, especially here in So-FL. Whenever someone mentions a Tiki Bar here I ask them are there any Tikis there? I usually get a blank stare as a reply since they have NO clue. :roll:

Personally TikiTex I am glad to hear he sent your kids to school etc. etc. at least I know that something good came out of his local contribution to destroying my hometown. I have to side with 'I dream of Tiki' on this one. My folks had the unfortunate experience of doing business with him in a film production he was involved in locally years back. They have nothing good to say about that experience, period.

And oh yeah, far too many Parrotheads are drunken haggerd 'stuck in the 70's' types who dream of sailing away in a boat to some unknown tropo paradise, but will always remain in Ohio. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :P :roll:

[ Edited by: Rattiki on 2004-03-19 10:04 ]

I think the most amazing thing about the whole phenomenon is that THIS THREAD NEVER GOES AWAY. Seven pages?!

I certainly have no intention of locking it or anything, but I pray each day that it will quietly fade away. And yet my prayers are never answered. sigh.

"Personally TikiTex I am glad to hear he sent your kids to school etc. etc."

Gawd, don't I wish....... I've never met the man, but if he'd like to contribute to ye olde college fund, he has my blessing.

And oh yeah, far too many Parrotheads are drunken haggerd 'stuck in the 70's' types who dream of sailing away in a boat to some unknown tropo paradise, but will always remain in Ohio.

I'm from Ohio but have lived in Florida for the past 14 years. I love Jimmy Buffet, his music reminds me of why I moved to FL.
It brings back the romanticized fellings I had of FL as a kid before I realized once I moved here as an adult I would have to work and be responsible. That sucks.

Do I suck?

On 2004-03-20 00:46, TikiTex wrote:
"Personally TikiTex I am glad to hear he sent your kids to school etc. etc."

Gawd, don't I wish....... I've never met the man, but if he'd like to contribute to ye olde college fund, he has my blessing.

OH I see it was his Sister who wrote all of that..........NEVER MIND! :lol:

[ Edited by: Rattiki on 2004-03-20 06:03 ]

On 2004-03-20 05:25, FLOUNDERart wrote:

And oh yeah, far too many Parrotheads are drunken haggerd 'stuck in the 70's' types who dream of sailing away in a boat to some unknown tropo paradise, but will always remain in Ohio.

I'm from Ohio but have lived in Florida for the past 14 years. I love Jimmy Buffet, his music reminds me of why I moved to FL.
It brings back the romanticized fellings I had of FL as a kid before I realized once I moved here as an adult I would have to work and be responsible. That sucks.

Do I suck?

When I moved to Key West at 15 years of age with my family back in the 70's it may have not been paradise, but it was a quiet, interesting, eccentric, albeit real city. No one knew where it was and when I was up in the (non-Florida) mainland I would have to draw them a map to explain to them where I lived. Then over the years we got up graded from just plain ol' Key West to 'FABULOUS KEY WEST' or just 'PARADISE'. Now a house that once cost $50K is a MILLION DOLLARS and we all have to work two jobs to pay all of the bills. Caroline St. where the woman had gone mad, and that had been a hang out for drunken shimpers in their rubber boots drinkin -n- fightin in crusty old bars, gave way to over priced boutiques full of tropo pastel colored clothes for the Martha Stewart types to buy. It’s Disneyland for adults with 10+ cruise ships arriving each week, over priced custom electric rental cars buzzing about, and Duval St. is the third highest per capita retails sales venue in America! :roll: It is no longer a real town, not at least one that anyone can afford or would want to live in, so me and my family are looking to move on. My Step Father as just purchased property in Nicaragua and I will probably end up in the Philippines. Yes we will do well from the real estate we own (our family compound/home) but it means we will lose our home, give up our friends etc. So Ohio can dream on about Margaritaville, ‘cus it never was, and Florida is done IMO. :cry: :P

[ Edited by: Rattiki on 2004-03-20 06:32 ]

Please tell me your not blaming Jimmy Buffet for the over taking of Key West! Key West is an beautiful and incredible location and all incredible locations get exploited. Even if someone isn't writing songs about it.

On 2004-03-20 06:48, FLOUNDERart wrote:
Please tell me your not blaming Jimmy Buffet for the over taking of Key West! Key West is an beautiful and incredible location and all incredible locations get exploited. Even if someone isn't writing songs about it.

Yeah I am, I got hate and bash him for some damn reason! :wink: His songs more than any one thing directly told and sold folks on this island. :P :cry: :lol: :cry: :P

Seriously though (and I think too many think I am being totally serious when I am quite often being a bit tongue and cheeky) I had a middle aged guy just last night roll down his window and ask me in my cab "Do you know where Margaritaville is?". He didn't want actually directions to the bar and restaurant, he meant it figuratively, as in 'where is that lost shaker of salt'. I told him no I didn't, but I could find Bali Hai for him. Then I went into a verse from South Pacific. :lol: :wink:

Remember you live on the mainland and it is a long ways from the Treasure coast to here. BELIEVE me when I say it is a different world there than here, in reality and ESPECIALY in their minds.

"Call some place paradise, kiss it goodbyyyyye"

On 2004-03-19 08:41, Rattiki wrote:
...is breathable and elegant to wear.

Oh man, why did you have to type that? :lol:

Now whenever you I read one of your posts I'm gonna picture Niles Crane in a Hawaiian shirt! :wink:

On 2004-03-20 08:00, Rattiki wrote:
Then I went into a verse from South Pacific. :lol: :wink:

Your killin' me here! Now I'm picturing Niles Crane wearing a Hawaiian shirt and driving a cab. :lol:

Hey you ever getting any of those topless Angkor Wat oil paintings?

I agree that Jimmy's music has probably been the biggest influence on Key West's tourism. (American, anyway; those cruise ships still carry lots of international passengers.) However, I learned about it decades ago from the writings of of Tennessee Williams and Ernest Hemingway. It was years before I could get there, but I loved it.

On 2004-03-20 10:06, TikiTex wrote:
I agree that Jimmy's music has probably been the biggest influence on Key West's tourism. (American, anyway; those cruise ships still carry lots of international passengers.) However, I learned about it decades ago from the writings of of Tennessee Williams and Ernest Hemingway. It was years before I could get there, but I loved it.

My folks knew Tennessee as they have always been very involved in theater here and my Step father still builds sets and does tech work at the TWFAC.

Hemingway on the other hand was only here for a few years before he went to Cuba to live. Robert Frost actually spent more time here, so did Shel Silverstein (who I met many times at Capt. Tony's) and Hunter S. Thompson.

I think you would be surprised at how FEW international tourists are on the ships that come here. It's the crews that are foreign, the passengers are generally from middle America.

[ Edited by: Rattiki on 2004-03-20 11:13 ]

Buffet has never been my bag. i still have post-traumatic stress from being a starving college student denigrated into DJing frat parties/weddings/holiday parties/bar mitzvahs/etc and dealing with "Play some Buffet!!!" i was even hassled at a wedding by a drunken Danny Bonaduce in '94 due to my lack of Buffet...

But what do i know? I'm listening to Kraftwerk right now (not very tiki i guess, but they're easier to mix into Martin Denny than Jimmy B).

(Bonus about living in Japan - i've yet to meet a Japanese Buffet fan.)

On 2004-03-20 22:35, BaronV wrote:
i was even hassled at a wedding by a drunken Danny Bonaduce in '94 due to my lack of Buffet...

Well if it makes ya feel any better, I saw him at a gig I was dj'ing. For some reason I felt the need to keep going up to him and say "Duuuuuuuude! You were awesome on Lost in Space!"

He seemed a bit miffed!

Teeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeeee!
TG

For some reason I felt the need to keep going up to him and say "Duuuuuuuude! You were awesome on Lost in Space!"

Damn, and i thought my constant pestering of "Can you give me bass guitar lessons?" was evil!

(Somewhere out there a silent tear is running down Billy Mumy's cheek...)

"My folks knew Tennessee as they have always been very involved in theater here and my Step father still builds sets and does tech work at the TWFAC."

Rattiki, I would love to pick your brain about T.W. He is one of my literary idols and one of the most interesting people I can think of (from the little I know).

On 2004-03-20 22:35, BaronV wrote:

But what do i know? I'm listening to Kraftwerk right now (not very tiki i guess, but they're easier to mix into Martin Denny than Jimmy B).

I'm guessing that Senor Coconut's EL BAILE ALEMAN is in your collection.

Shel Silverstein was one of the greatest!

His children's poems are full of sly wit and make my kids feel like they are in on a terrific secret joke with him.

His cartoons are hilarious.

His "Freakin' at the Freakers Ball" album is in my alltime top ten!

Thanks for mentioning him. It makes my day just seeing him brought up. Sure wish I could have met him.

Silverstein was a master of wit. I too became familiar with him through my children's bedtime hour.

If the good die young, it looks like I'm in it for the long haul...

(anyone else like the Alan Parson's Project of long ago?)

silverstein wrote a lot of great country songs too. two of my faves are BOY NAMED SUE for johnny cash & ONE ON THE WAY for loretta lynn.

TikiChris,

He wrote "A Boy Named Sue"? I remember when that song was on the top of the charts in the late '60s (I think). That was right before I 'discovered' this pop music stuff and bought Simon and Garfunkels 'Bridge Over Troubled Waters' (I wore the first LP out and bought a second).

I missed Silverstein as a kid. I was all strung out on Edward Gory. many in my family think this acounts for my dark nature, and won't let their children near the suff for fear that... well just for fear I guess.
Now that I think about it I guess I don't hate JB much more than anything else, the whole mess is just a long bleak trudge towards an all to certain doom, I'm not the least bit surprised by the atrocious soundtrack.

aw man, maybe I can drink it away...

Tres Cool, Bwana!

The Gashlycrumb Tinies is a classic!

Isn't it great how Jimmy Buffet actually brought together fans of Silverstein and Gorey?

Here's a link to my favorite "young reader's" book:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/7535/gorey.html

Cheers, Bwana!

On 2004-03-22 21:35, Geeky Tiki wrote:
The Gashlycrumb Tinies is a classic!

N is for Neville who died of ennui.

I'm no Buffet fan but I just heard the easy listening guitar version of "Margaritaville" by Anthony Arizaga. It was ZAZZ!

okay,
I was WRONG in my last post when I said I don't hate JB much more than anything else. as I dosed off last night some nasty canadians who send their half assed infotainment out to real americans on PRI via public radio felt it would be a neat idea to do a goofy little segment on parrotheads and ended it by playing margarittaville... the whole damn song, on a station that NEVER PLAYS MUSIC! jesus, he's like a god damn plegue. I hope the next time I hear about him is because the coast guard caught pirates drinking out of a mug made from his skull! and when they dump his mortal remains in the briny deep I hope they have the sence to dump his master tapes in with him. those nasty canadian even had the nerve to say the song was the sailors anthum, Hey man I sail a lot and no one ever hipped me to this little gem if they had I'd of sunk their boats on the spot and never set sail again. JB MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE HE RUINS EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE. Maybe we could ship him off to canada.

May an angry god eat JB's spleen,

I recently asked the manager of our favorite quasi-tiki restaurant why they stopped playing exotica and went to so much Jimmy Buffet. He was sympathetic that we wanted a return to exotica and told us he'd keep it in the mix, but said that back when he used more exotica, the relaxed quality of it slowed the pace of his employees. He also noted that a lot of his customers were parrotheads. I'm not sure there is a counter-arguement to that as long as Buffet fans make the cash register ring and we're the only two asking for more exotica. I do know is that listening to entire Buffet albums in a tiki environment is like a Chinese water torture to me.

Just a friendly little bump, this is a good and interesting thread.

Appologies to those that get e-mail-outs.

and let us remind ourselves that tikiwahine is a very NICE and CHARMING canadian! :)

Die Buffy die!!!!!!!

Oh, sh*t... duck & cover! :o

I think I just contracted foot-in-mouth disease from Tiki-Toa.

I promise, on my honor, to let this thread die.

I just did 2 Big Ass Bamboo shadow boxes for 2 1900's vintage hula skirts for the people you love to hate. And a bar too!

Bump
Compliments of Tikiwahine!
No charge

Unga! I can't believe you just did that. STOP IT!!!!.

oh... did I just... F*CK!.

Last night I met Jimmy Buffet at the Sag Harbor Whaling Museum 2nd annual Luau. Sag Harbor is one of the coolest places on Earth. I suppose it's the East Coast's answer to the best of CA. Buffet introduced a local band, Costa Del Sol that was terrific. I ran into him later and he was very nice. I mentioned TC and the discussions of Tiki vs Buffet. He gazed away and said: "Let's see Tiki to me is..."
"Polynesian pop?" I prompted after a few moments.
He wasn't familiar with the term but said that he had uncles who fought in the South Pacific in WWII and brought back great stories about the culture, as well as Hawaii, that influenced him. He also said that he played with Martin Denny before he died and was a real fan, and that he (Buffet) had traced an ancestor to the Bounty!
To everyone's suprise he got up with the band and played 3 great songs: Van's Brown Eyed Girl, a Buffet song I don't know (I really never listened to his stuff), and ended with the Stones' You Can't Always Get What You Want.
I encouraged JB to join the discussions regarding his music and influence on TC. He was nice and friendly and played some great tunes.
All in all a great evening. Here's hoping we hear from him.

If a TIKI bar is pushing out exotica in favor of Buffy, then that is not a good thing. If all you really like is tropical decor and fruit-based drinks, then that's ok. But if (like me) you would like to see real TIKI culture have it's rightful place as a true art form, then watering it down for mass consumption by using Buffy instead of Baxter should be a crime with heavy jail time.

On 2006-07-16 16:37, lucas vigor wrote:
If a TIKI bar is pushing out exotica in favor of Buffy, then that is not a good thing. If all you really like is tropical decor and fruit-based drinks, then that's ok. But if (like me) you would like to see real TIKI culture have it's rightful place as a true art form, then watering it down for mass consumption by using Buffy instead of Baxter should be a crime with heavy jail time.

The problem is economics and education. Most people drink "tiki" drinks because they're sweet and you can't taste the booze. They don't differentiate between a daquiri, a margarita, and a mai-tai. The educated tikiphile drinks these drinks BECAUSE they're "tiki" and WANTS to taste a good rum in them. There are a lot more casual parrotheads than dedicated tikiphiles in the world, and if the true educated tikiphiles cannot keep their local tiki bar afloat playing exotica and serving Fogcutters, then the tiki bar is going to cater to the crowd that comes in and plunks down the money (yes I'm talking to you, Drift Lounge, Scottsdale, AZ).

Those of us here (and I can barely include myself since I'm only a novice tikiphile) are educated, but you can't fault the dog for licking his balls, it's what dogs do. You can't fault the uneducated for going to a real tiki bar and ordering a cosmopolitan, they don't know any better. The bar owner may be a true tikiphile, but he/she is a businessperson first and they have to keep the doors open.

As far as Buffett is concerned, I don't believe for a moment that he had anything at all to do with the decline of Tiki any more than he had anything to do with the decline of Googie and Space Age that happened at the same time. Fashions change, and what goes around comes around. Hip hugger bellbottoms and peasant blouses are back (thank the fashion gods!) and so are tikis in the popular consiousness, and Buffett, whether you like it or not, has contributed a great deal to that resurgence. Why? Because he's become very popular over the last few years, and everyone wants to ride the money train. So every retail crap outlet in the world is scraping the bottom of every barrel for anything even remotely tropical to throw at the wall and see if it sticks. Tikis are undeniably tropical, and everyone has good memories of Adventureland and the Tiki Hut at Disney, so here they are. They'll be gone again before you know it, but the tikiphiles will remain as always.

Now, if I put on my Parrothead hat, I could make a case that you tiki people are trying to hijack OUR bus. Margaritaville is not a place in space/time, it's a state of mind. As you variously pity, deride, or haranuge the uneducated tiki posers out there, so you also may be committing the same sin towards the Church of Buffett by running it down for its impact on you without understanding what it's really about. Jimmy Buffett is about living your life for now and doing what you are led by your inner desires to do. It's realizing that you truly can do anything you want if you try hard enough. The Parrothead lifestyle is not about Polynesia or the Caribbean or Mexico or Florida, although it touches on all those places. It's about taking what's right about all those places and putting them together into some sort of archetypal tropical paradise that you carry with you whereever you go in life. You don't have to physically travel to Margaritaville, in fact you can't, it doesn't exist, but you can take yourself to Margaritaville while you are sitting in the conference room enduring a boring meeting, or making dinner for your screaming kids...

Or even sitting on the beach somewhere.

On 2006-07-15 09:08, aikiman44 wrote:
Last night I met Jimmy Buffet at the Sag Harbor Whaling Museum 2nd annual Luau. Sag Harbor is one of the coolest places on Earth. I suppose it's the East Coast's answer to the best of CA. Buffet introduced a local band, Costa Del Sol that was terrific. I ran into him later and he was very nice. I mentioned TC and the discussions of Tiki vs Buffet. He gazed away and said: "Let's see Tiki to me is..."
"Polynesian pop?" I prompted after a few moments.
He wasn't familiar with the term but said that he had uncles who fought in the South Pacific in WWII and brought back great stories about the culture, as well as Hawaii, that influenced him. He also said that he played with Martin Denny before he died and was a real fan, and that he (Buffet) had traced an ancestor to the Bounty!

...
I encouraged JB to join the discussions regarding his music and influence on TC. He was nice and friendly and played some great tunes.
All in all a great evening. Here's hoping we hear from him.

I'm still waiting for JB to join our forums.

WOW ! page 9...while not a big Buffet fan ("Come Monday" excepted) most of his music I'm not familiar with...... (as overplayed top 40's gets the boot on my dial) .....but let's face it ,warm sand,cool fruity drinks,and sharing some fun are common goals ....there are some asses that have that "frat Idiot"result no matter which camp they get loaded in..... the ignorant "masses" of them should be.......( multiple choice here)....(hey,do they vote?...could explain a few things?)....but musical taste? hell, I always thought J.B. was James Brown !....we do seem have a bit more class in Tiki land with the art SOME of the misic and proprely mixed drinks......the main bitch seems to be the mix of other than tiki in our "sacred" places....My gal and I were in Pittsburgh at the Tiki lounge and while totally taken with the fantastic decor and pleased with reasonably good drinks and service....the music was(at least for our 2 hour stay on a Thursday afternoon) a mix of new alt rock (blasting!.as it should be ) with a bit of classic pop rock...and yeah" THAT " Jimmy Buffet tune..... as the father of two "rock star" sons ....I dealt with it.....and understand many posters' angst.....as Ringo said "I'm a mocker" when asked in "Hard Days Night" if he was a rocker or a mod...It's freedom man...as long as you don't mess with MY TIKI......Aloha and Mahalo

Look we all need to get along. While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.

I'll admit, the 3 months I spent in Key West gave way to openness to the JB music mix and culture. It couldn't be helped, he's everywhere the Keys. While not a fan of the music, or non-fan (oddly neutral on it), I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.

Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.

Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me. :wink:

On 2006-08-04 08:57, Coco Loco wrote:
Look we all need to get along.
Why? I mean it's not like the Crips and the Bloods. Or is it? :lol:

While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.

**I would like to think that too but from the looks of some of the more recent posts I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play. With more and more people who post their watered down version of "tiki" the more the current definition of popular polynesian/tiki culture will change. Can you say ....Martin Denny who? Does he carve?

I don't have an issue with people loving the Buffet. But why not do it where everyone loves the Buffet?
Like, saaaay... Buffetworld**

**

• I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.*

Lucky for you you can...**

Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.

**You said it right there...UNDERSTANDING that the buffet culture pollutes the traditionalist tiki culture, why on earth would you want the two to mix? EVER? EVER? EVER? Sooo at the risk of repeating myself
Although I am certainly no purist in the world of collecting, I gotta say this ...(sorry Hanford)
I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture? **

*Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me. :wink:
*

No stoning... just getting tired of beating this dead horse. Let the flames begin...

[ Edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 10:34 ]

Jimmy Buffet leads to this:

Blech. I hope that all this gabbing about the guy whose name rhymes with Timmy Tuffet isn't bringing TC up in google searches for the guy.

This is a swell community for like-minded folks who love Polynesian Pop culture. If someone comes in here, thinking that they've found a community of like-minded folks who like something else entirely -- that is, generic Tropical-- there's nothing harsh or criminal about that, it's a simple mistake. I don't take it as a slap on the face.

There has always been the occasional My-Vision-Of-Tropical-Is-A-Mishmash person who has wandered into Tiki Central. The trick is how to communicate to them that, a) there's nothing wrong with that, they're totally entitled to love their neon toucan (cringe), but that b) they've stumbled into a community of folks who are here for something specific, Polynesian Pop, and thus, this probably isn't the community for them, because we will make fun of their neon toucan (cringe).

I do think it would be totally appropriate to point out to someone when they have posted something that isn't particularly Poly Pop, and why it isn't. It's not an inherently mean-spirited thing to do, and without doing that, what we'll end up with is a community of like-minded folks who like watered-down Tropicalia. Which would be a shame.

Yes, it's being a little exclusive, but not with people -- it's with subject matter. If someone wanted to come here and start talking about bass fishing, it wouldn't be a good fit, because this site isn't about bass fishing. The problem arises because most people out there don't even know what Polynesian Pop is, so they don't know that this site isn't for them -- they just see something tropical and assume they've found the place to post their bar that's full of parrots and surfboards and not much else.

Which brings me to my next point: we were all new to Polynesian Pop at some point -- we didn't magically pop out of the womb to the strains of Les Baxter, with a Mystery Bowl for a baptismal font. Lots of folks have come to very much love Polynesian Pop because they learned about it through Tiki Central. If you go back and look at the first things I posted about, I was way off the mark, the stuff I posted about was crap. If I'd been run off, you wouldn't have Critiki, Ooga-Mooga, Humu Kon Tiki, or several thousand photos of tiki spots around the nation.

I don't really know what the answer is, except to feel free to critique the stuff people post (just try to keep to critiquing the stuff, not the people -- don't be a dick about it), and to try to create a community that is friendly to those who are here because they want to learn more. And to lead by example, and post cool stuff from your own collection (which should be a lot easier now with image upload!).

There's my 2 coconuts. :wink:

On 2006-08-04 09:58, DawnTiki wrote:
I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play.

I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture?

Wow Dawn. Thank you for expressing that so perfectly.

The mere mention of Jimmy Buffet always gets me riled up. Yes, that's my own issue, and maybe I should just deal with it quietly on my own. But it just seems to be getting worse. When we checked into the Caliente Tropics a few weeks ago and Margaritaville was playing in the lobby, I literally wanted to cry. It makes me desperately sad to see the continual watering down of that which I hold near and dear.

I miss the folks who would put the smack down on violently lame posts. Granted some people went a little overboard, but it kept things focused no matter how mean it sounded at the time.

When I first started posting about three years ago, I received the occasional snarky comment, but I knew that my opinion was valid because I lurked before I started posting. I got the lay of the land and knew that I never wanted to say anything so stupid that I would incur the wrath of Bong. I decided back then that I didn't want my posts to be meaningless. Unless I had something important to say or something really cool to show off, I stayed silent.

We all saw the way things changed back in March. Some punk ass puts up 252 meaningless, useless posts and then disappears after six weeks, and this place has never been the same.

The fun that results in meeting through TC seems to be more and more contrived these days. Everything is so ultra planned down to how everyone should spend every minute at an event. Who wants to go to something like that? I don't want any vacation Nazis planning my weekends for me. Let's just hang out. See what happens. If you are really into tiki, the fun will follow. It comes from this commonality of interest and not from some ridiculous, inherent need to party. If you just want to drink margaritas and listen to Buffet or whatever, apparently the world of Buffet does exist. Hang out there. It will probably mean a better time for everyone.

On 2006-08-04 10:44, Humuhumu wrote:
Which brings me to my next point: we were all new to Polynesian Pop at some point -- we didn't magically pop out of the womb to the strains of Les Baxter, with a Mystery Bowl for a baptismal font. Lots of folks have come to very much love Polynesian Pop because they learned about it through Tiki Central. If you go back and look at the first things I posted about, I was way off the mark, the stuff I posted about was crap.

Having a strong opinion on something shouldn't make that person viewed as a dick. I'm sure no one sets out to be a dick when they wake up in the morning. The answer is simple, if you don't want to be treated like one, then don't be one.
Of course most of us know how little we knew when we joined TC. That was the draw to TC for me. Look at this place, with all the fun people and huge amount of information dolts like me now have access to. Paradise!
Obviously anyone can love the Buffet, I'm sure plenty of TC'ers do, but are they shoving their Buffet love down my throat? No. Does the Buffet belong here? No.
It's become too hard to sit here and ignore these stupid posts. I've done it and they aren't going away.
If anything, ignoring them seems to invite more of the same. The more and more parrotheads that feel this is the place to discuss the Buffet, will eventually open TC up as a place to go to to talk about the Buffet.
I am by no means an expert on poly pop or tiki culture, but I do know if people don't want to be treated like they are in the wrong place, trying to drudge up topics that don't belong here.
Then maybe, just maybe, THEY need to make the effort, THEY need to sit back and read, read and read some more. THEY need to take the time to figure out if THEY and their interests belong on this forum before THEY start pushing the Buffet love.

[ Edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 13:01 ]

Oh, absolutely! Don't ignore them, point it out when something isn't tiki. After all, that's discussion. A strong opinion, and voicing it, doesn't make a person a dick -- sharing that strong opinon in a dicky way makes someone a dick.

Sorry for the long quote section, I'm to lazy to edit it down :) This attitude makes me uncomfortable. I came here with a parrothead background after realizing that there's more to tiki than the "tropical mishmash" someone else mentioned. I have learned a lot here, and I have learned something about what tiki is and isn't. What you wrote, Dawn, comes across to me as being the kind of attitude that will discourage people from coming here and learning so that they DON'T commit the sin of mixing parrothead and tiki. (And really, why that's such a big deal, I don't know. We are very much in danger of over-defining our cliques here like junior high students.)

Furthermore, you talk about real tiki. One can make the argument that there's been no addition to real tiki for nearly a century since the last old traditional carvers in the south seas carved the last traditional god in wood for religious rather than commercial or even artistic reasons.

Wait, you say, I'm talking about the post WWII polynesian pop craze. Okay, well, there are several versions of that. Which is right and which is wrong? Is it only right if the recently carved tiki is a copy of a "real" historic tiki? Is it only right if the tiki mug is a vintage mug from an accepted "real" tiki place? Those two definitions rule out most of the artwork done by the people who post here.

What is "real" tiki, someone explain this to me? Because if you don't, I live in fear of letting my Buffett roots influence a post and getting slapped down by those who have taken it upon themselves to define what tiki is for me.

This web site has a huge potential to educate people in the roots of the generic tropical themes that are so popular these days. If they come here and see people posting basically "you're all wrong but I'm not going to explain why" then those folks will go away and keep doing what you don't want them to. That, of course, is the desire of snobs, to set themselves apart from the unwashed masses through the percieved superiority of secret knowledge, which is secret because it usually doesn't stand up to inspection. The folks here are not snobs, the folks here are much better than that. Let's embrace the mission to educate and convert all those potential "real" tiki fanatics.

On 2006-08-04 09:58, DawnTiki wrote:

On 2006-08-04 08:57, Coco Loco wrote:
Look we all need to get along.
Why? I mean it's not like the Crips and the Bloods. Or is it? :lol:

While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.

**I would like to think that too but from the looks of some of the more recent posts I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play. With more and more people who post their watered down version of "tiki" the more the current definition of popular polynesian/tiki culture will change. Can you say ....Martin Denny who? Does he carve?

I don't have an issue with people loving the Buffet. But why not do it where everyone loves the Buffet?
Like, saaaay... Buffetworld**

**

• I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.*

Lucky for you you can...**

Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.

**You said it right there...UNDERSTANDING that the buffet culture pollutes the traditionalist tiki culture, why on earth would you want the two to mix? EVER? EVER? EVER? Sooo at the risk of repeating myself
Although I am certainly no purist in the world of collecting, I gotta say this ...(sorry Hanford)
I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture? **

*Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me. :wink:
*

No stoning... just getting tired of beating this dead horse. Let the flames begin...

[ Edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 10:34 ]