Open tuning ideas? Need that hawaiian sound.

I play a lot of slide in open tuning, but can get out of that heavy blues sound. Am I doing something wrong or is there any way to tune my guitar to a more hawaiin open tuning kind of sound???
Anybody?
Thanks.

Tahitiki

[ Edited by: Tahitiki on 2005-01-16 20:59 ]

5000 word essay on tuning(s) from Kanekila in 3....2.....

:wink:

If Bong wasn't on "vacation" he could fill a page or 2 as well.

http://www.pacificislandtravel.com/hawaii/about_destin/steelguitar.html

a good read...

I think the main "sound" is G6 and goes like BDEGBD. That thing is such a beast to play but lovely to listen to. For me anyway.

[ Edited by: pablus on 2005-01-16 13:55 ]

Thanks Pablus,
I'll try that right away.

Tahitiki

[ Edited by: Tahitiki on 2005-01-16 21:01 ]

Aloha, kidz!

No, not a 5000 word essay(!), but definitely the quickest way to make your guitar sound Hawaiian is to use one of the "6" tunings. Pablus mentioned the G6, which is the easiest one to get using standard guitar strings, although it makes those lower notes a bit flabby. If you like to leave your guitar strung in open tuning for slide playing, then I would recommend getting the correct gauges for that particular tuning.

If you're interested in learning the most standard, ubiquitous and basic Hawaiian tuning, I would recommend C6 (low to high, C-E-G-A-C-E). You can buy a pre-made John Pierce set at http://www.juststrings.com. I've used these, and they're nice strings.

If you go to http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm you can see what the correct string gauges should be. There are also books available (http://www.elderly.com/books/items/02-95666BCD.htm) that will give you a good overview of the tuning, and how to play in it.

But yes -- it's that 6th note of the scale (i.e., the A string in a C6 tuning) that makes it "sound" Hawaiian. Just put your bar at the 5th fret (F6), slide a smooth glissando up an octave, and you're in the islands circa 1959, braddah!

Oh yes -- I recommend the Dunlop Jerry Byrd "bullet" tonebar (919 4.5 oz. Professional, 3/4" x 2-3/4"). Light enough to move it around, fits nicely in the hand, and just right for 6-string steel.

Aloha,
Kanekila

And if anyone is interested in hearing some VERY sweet steel - you should be at the Lagoon Lounge on Thursday of this week.

Kanekila always puts on a show with those Kwazy Kats.

(especially under the spell of a few bodacious island libations)

Hawaiian Hula Eyes...

I'm so ready.

Hey Pablus -- are you going to have several of those giant space heaters painted to look like palm trees, you know, to simulate the warm tropics?

:)

It gon' be CODE, braddah!

I'm buying a big ole fireplace in the round today, braddah.

I'm a Floridian now.
I can't wear anything but shorts.

Ummmm... that's cool and everything, but you weren't going to put that in the bar area, under the birdcage, were you? I would think sparks would burn the screen!(?)

Well hey, if that's not an issue, and it works, that would be way cool... er, I mean, HOT!

It's gonna be fun.

Thanks Kanekila,
This should definitly help,
That's the kind of stuff I was looking for.
I've read that you've got more than 30 lap steels. Wow! Do you have any pictures of your collection online???

Tahitiki

THIRTY!!?? Now I see how legends like Paul Bunyan, et al, come about. Man, I WISH! :)

No, I don't have thirty of them, but I think THIS GUY does:

http://rickalexander.com/BigSteel/

Rick lives down here in FLA, over on the Atlantic side, near Miami. He does more old-style country with his. I've never met him, but I thinks he knocks down some good cake on his day gig. Them's a lot of steels! He could damn near open a museum. Beautiful collection.

I do have two Fender Stringmasters (a triple neck longscale, and a doubleneck shortscale), a resonator (Dobro-type instrument), and a six-string Chandler that's finished in a beautiful Koa. I did have a 5th one (Melobar - nice steels), but just sold it to a man in Dallas. It's perfect for blues/rock, but not so great for Hawaiian.

I suppose if you just count necks, then I have "seven," but that's cheatin'! :)

I'm really partial to the Fender Stringmasters. I just love everything about them - tone, spacing, construction. Unfortunately, so do a lot of other folks, so the prices are starting to really jack up now. Then again, a 1956 Fender Tripleneck Stringmaster for $1500 or so is a true bargain, if you compare that to a '56 Stratocaster at about $30K!!!

If you're looking for a lapsteel, the old Supro's and Valco's are great bargains. National's are nice, too. Hell, even the old Gibson BR9 student models have a cool, old time funkiness to them. You can find these all day on Ebay in the $200+ range.

I'd like to make a trip down to visit Rick, and check out his collection sometime. Mind boggling...

Aloha!

Kanekila,
That a cool collection, nice stuff, 7 neck is not bab either. The fenders must sound great.
There is one rickenbacker (A or G 22) that I really like, any ideas what those would go for, I haven't seen many for sale.

Tahitiki

Pablus said:

Well, any details? I'm up here in the frozen North East waiting to live vicariously through your party! (as a storm bears down on me)

Great Lap Steel info from everyone on this thread by the way. I have an Oahu with the matching amp permanently set up in my living room (tiki room) and I'm trying to play every other day or so to get somewhat proficient.

Kanekila, I've been listening to the Haole Kats CD a whole lot (love it) and I've decided to use it as my lap steel "lesson book"
What tunings do you use on each song? Are they the same? That is you right? I'm fairly new to this site and still trying to match usernames to people. If this is too much too ask, forgive me. I'm hoping to start working in some lap steel playing with Dino (tikiconvert) on the upright up here where it's cold.
Any help would be greatly apreciated, thanks, Carl

Tahitiki,

What everyone else has said to your question, and this:

When I first switched to steel guitar I also found myself playing bluesy sounding riffs, no matter how hard I wanted to be Sol Ho'o'pi'i.

I wore a lei when practicing - to no avail; I wore ku'ku'i nuts - no go; I wore a hula skirt and all previously mentioned items when practicing - wasn't sounding like Waikiki at all.

What finally began to work for me is simply and only listening to the type of Hawaiian music I wanted to master - only.

Eventually my style began to evolve into a more distinct Hawaiian sound.

What I'm getting at is that it isn't always in the tuning that gives a steel player the Hawaiian feel, but rather all the little sliding, picking, and dampening techniques you pick up by just learning the steel masters tunes.

As Alan Akaka said in the book "The Hawaiian Steel Guitar":"The Hawaiian style of playing is a feeling - an emotion that is nurtured throughout ones life. It's from being a part of the Hawaiian musical culture. In order to play in the Hawaiian style you have to live, eat, and drink Hawai'i".

But tuning is important also. The tunings I use on my Fender triple-neck 8 string are (from highest to lowest strings): E7th - E,B,G#,E,D,B,G#,E; C6th (Jerry Byrd tuning) - E,C,A,G,E,C,A,G; G Major - D,B,G,D,B,G (I only string that neck w/ 6).

What's important about having different tunings are what's called "grips"; these are just different intervals of stings that you're picking; for some styles of music, it's better to have certain chord structures within close reach.

The steel is already tediuos to play and to make things worse you don't want to be traveling all over the neck to fetch notes.

I'm sure as you've learned already, most steel 'chords' aren't really chords, but rather 'chord partials' as they typically do not contain the tonic, a 3rd, and a 5th interval.

Chord partials is a broad term under which you'll finds things like double and triple stops, harmonic intervals, and shells.

So now you got to figure out what intervals capture as much of the real chord on your steel.

I don't know everything by any stretch about the steel, but I've found you're typically limited to: 'tonic and major 3rd' and 'tonic and minor third'.

Without being tuned in a E7th or a C6th, it's real tough to pull off a 6th or 7th sound with the tonic and the 6th, or the tonic and the 7th double-stop combo. It's kind of weak because it's a long intervolic (is that a word?) leap from the 1 to the 7th interval.

That's why I have a tuning in a 7th and a tuning in the 6th; and the ever-handy G major.

Good luck, and practice like your possessed.

My '51 triple.

[ Edited by: Tiki_Bong on 2005-02-06 12:45 ]

Thanks Tiki Bong. Nice Fender by the way, and nice Tiki in the background too.

Tahitiki

[ Edited by: Tahitiki on 2005-02-06 15:56 ]

Have been searching the web for a great "lost" Wayne Watkins interview pertaining to the Captiol Collector's Series and Spotlight On... cd collections.

Might anyone else recall it and have a link to it?

Thanks, Gerry

Hey! I made an error!!!

The 6th or 7th chord sound CAN be done without necessarily tuning to a 6th or 7th tuning.

I mistakenly assumed that in order to make a 6th or 7th chord "sound" with only 2 notes (like most steel guitar - partial - chords are), one needed to play the tonic (1st interval) and the 6th or 7th (depending) interval.

The tonic and 6th (or 7th) interval is a hard straight-bar form to find on most non-6th or 7th tunings.

But, and old steel playing braddah I met at the gym told me that you only need to play the 3rd interval (major or minor) and the 6th or 7th interval.

So, in effect you're leaving out the tonic or home note that defines what chord the tune is at the particular time when you're playing only the 3rd interval and the 6th or 7th.

But that's OK. The rest of the band is covering the tonic or key, so a solo instrument like the steel is free to work on the other intervals in the key.

General note: for those that don't play steel guitar (not that it matter), steel guitars are tuned in what's called "Open Tunings". That means something like this: have you ever strumed a guitar that was tuned in standard tuning?

It doesn't really sound like any type of chord you've heard does it?

That's because standard guitars are tuned, for the most part, in 4ths. Strum a series of 4th's and it doesn't sound that great.

This means that if you strum the open stings in an OPEN TUNED tuning (no fingers pressed on the frets that is), you'll hear a recognizable chord - whether you know it or not!).

Anyway, practice like you're possessed!

Tahitiki, to check out some classic slack key music, players and links see:

http://www.dancingcat.com

Even if it don't provide that much technical info, it's still great inspiration.

Hey Captain Morgan and Tiki Bong --

Sorry I've been away so long. Very busy making arrangements for my daughter and her finacee to move here from Iowa City (they decided to get out of the cold).

Carl -- the tunings I use about 98% of the time on my Double-8 are C6 (lo to hi: C-A-C-E-G-A-C-E) and B11 (lo to hi: F#-A-B-D#-F#-A-C#-E). I sometimes will tune the bottom two strings on the B11 tuning to B and F#, respectively, for a REALLY fat sounding B11 chord. I also retune the B11 to A6 once in a while by raising the D# to E, and the B to C#. This gives me a straight 6th tuning with that fifth on the top string (especially nice for playing old Hank-style country tunes).

On my Triple-8, I have the middle neck tuned to A6, and sometimes will retune to an E7, if I want a neck for that blues sound.

If you have a six-stringer, just omit the bottom two strings from the 8-string tunings above. Voila!

A lot of the way I play steel I got from playing with a master player who lives here in the area by the name of Dick Sanft. Dick is originally from Tonga, but lived in Hawaii for years. He then moved to Orlando and played with a trio for 20 years in the restaurant at the Polynesian Resort at Disneyworld. He retired around 1990 or so, and is about 75 now, I believe. I can't play ANYTHING close to how good he is, but I like the way he plays, so I try to model my playing that way. He really swings it!

Tiki Bong -- NICE '51 TRIPLE! I have two Stringmasters, but would love to get a trapezoid pickup Dual Pro or Custom like yours. They definitely have their own sound (nice and juicy)!

Dang, we definitely have to get together one of these days. We hope to be at Hukilau this year, and are crossing our fingers that all this hurricane nonsense won't be a factor this year!

Aloha pumehana,
Kanekila

Kanekila

[ Edited by: Kanekila on 2005-02-23 08:13 ]

Kanekila, Thank you very much. I listen to your CD most every day, and hope to make it down there sometime to hear you guys live!

Carl