Staying On Topic In Posts

(First a dumb little story to set a friendly tone for this post...)

So the good ship Tiki Central Topic X is sailing along, its course set for Topic X Island, it's ship's roster open to anyone who cares to discus Topic X. A good time is being had by all. There is plenty of rum. A really good time is being had by all.

But then someone else comes aboard ship and proclaims "Topic X Bah! Topic Y!" She/he (hard to tell) drinks freely of the free rum then yells even louder "Topic Y! Topic Y! We're takin' this ship to Topic Y Cove!" And suddenly the ship is over ran with others talking about Topic Y as they take control of the ship and set course for an entirely different destination than the people who built the Topic X had ever intended.

The Topic Pirates have struck again.

(Dumb lil story over.)

If you didn't get the point of the dumb lil story, here's an interpretive dance:

(Dancing done.)

OK, the tone is friendly, get it?

When a topic is taken over by an entirely different discussion than intended by the topic poster it's not really fair to the original person who wanted to share or discuss a particular topic and see the subsequent discussion. It's also not fair to those who kept to the original topic and added to the thread. Clearly they too wanted to discuss the original topic.

Taking over a topic also dilutes the strength of the information on Tiki Central as threads become rambling and unfocused.

But the worst thing about a Topic Pirate takeover is that (and this part is important for anyone who may think they are getting the finger wagged at 'em, so read carefully) what could have been a very interesting and lively separate thread gets bundled with another topic.

A separate thread on the wonders of Topic Y Cove would be far more useful to people planning their trip to the Sea of Metaphors than a Topic Pirate takeover of the Topic X Island thread. A separate thread would also be useful to people who have no interest in Topic X Island and have ignored the thread because of the subject title.

Topic takeovers have been happening on Tiki Central since way-back-then. It's just an aspect of the conversational tone of threads. This particularly post is not intended as a chastisement of anyone in particular. Nor is it meant to try and put a candy coated gloss on all of Tiki Central. Ideally (if anyone even got past the interpretive dance) the suggestions here will lead to even more lively discussions.

So here's them suggestions:

*****If you have an opinion of a topic that is completely different than the tone of the post start a separate thread. An opener along the lines of "The thread on Topic X Island reminded me of how great Topic Y Cove is..." will hopefully let it be known that your intentions are good. Include a link to the original thread (useful for those who don't know the content of every thread on Tiki Central). Even if your thoughts on a particular topic are wildly against the subject of the original thread, a few good opening lines can make it clear that you just want to explore a different line of thinking, not utterly dismiss the opinions of others.

*****Try to see the intent of a post. This may mean looking beyond the actual words/spelling/punctuation used. Or your personal prejudices about either the person making the post or the post subject. Try and stick to that particular post, and not to what that person posted 6 months ago. Yes, it's fun to hang someone on their own words but it just contributes to a petty meaningless environment. The internet has plenty of those already.

*****Ignore the posts that are clearly meant to annoy or provoke. It's easy to do. If you can't ignore it, post something in the thread that relates to the original topic. It'll help the thread move on past the moronic post and you'll have made it clear to the instigator that their comments meant nothing to you...The worst thing you can do to someone trying to start something. Even if the poster is coming across like a complete jackass and you have the links to show them up, ignoring them and moving the thread along is the better call for everyone.

*****Sit on your hands. So you're shocked...SHOCKED...that someone thinks Flamingo Pink and Sky Blue is a great color scheme for a Tiki bar. How about giving it 24 hours before you attempt to blast them out of the water? You may just find that you really don't give a damn the next day.

*****You don't have to be all bubbly-happy-let's-hold-hands in your opinions, but try to be constructive in your criticism. There's nothing wrong with a negative post. But a post along the lines of That looks dumb. is meaningless and useless to someone seeking input. Well stated negative feedback may actually save someone a lot of time and money having custom Flamingo Pink and Sky Blue furniture and carpets made for their Tiki bar, or opening a rode side Tiki jewelry stand in Wyoming.

*****Keep the personal chit-chat to Private Messages. Better yet, start a thread in Tiki Central Ohana. Two members having a private conversation about the incredible White Chocolate Macadamia Nut Omelettes served at the Hondo, TX airport in the middle of a thread on Tiki mug cleaning makes the thread a mess for people interested in figuring out how to get 3 day old Mai-Tai residue out of their Sven Tiki mug. Plus a separate thread may be useful to someone who is dreading a visit to Hondo. Or it's just fun for those of us who like to read happy news and friendly exchanges.

The above suggestions are given solely for the purpose of helping keep Tiki Central one of the most friendly and interesting places on the whole WWW. The interpretive dance was actually just to show off a couple of cool new moves. Sorry.

So what do you guys want for Christmas?

So what are you trying to say???

So this Scotsman and a Jew come into this bar ...

I wear flip flops!! :wink:

Thanks Woof , I am now going to start a new thread on how my brain hurts from reading all of that.

I like mayonnaise.

So Woofmutt, I've kinda lost this particular thread -- is "changing the topic" this topic's Topic X? Or is Topic X sticking to the topic? And if the topic is changing the topic, does sticking to the topic constitute changing the topic?

(I'm just glad I've seen your interpretive dances before, or I'd be utterly confused.)

Well said, Woofmutt. You'd think we wouldn't need to tell people this stuff. Obviously you put a lot of work into that post, and I appreciate it. I wish everyone would take it to heart. I hope that most who read it understand and do their part to help out. It's really not that hard to stay on topic or gasp! refrain from posting! :)

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore 2006-06-02 02:54 ]

..quit being a baby!!!

I like the dance, and I'm dancing too - except my moves are sporadic and ugly, albeit happy.

What if you happen to know that Topic X Cove sucks and is filled with stinging jellyfish and all the bars there only play country music and serve ultra light beer?

What if Topic X Cove has been visited 359 times already and you're tired of the same palm tree with its 4 coconuts and the same outcropping of lava rock that looks like Gerald Ford and you had 3012 pictures of Topic X Cove and 359 Captain's Logs that describe its every detail?

As far as the personal insights and asides, that's one of the things that intrigued and held my interest on this board in the first place. I know more about you, woofmutt, than you realize from reading inside barbs and jokes between you and some of the earlier members here.

But I do agree that there are better forums than General Tiki for it.

I just would hate to think how many truly good friends I wouldn't have made had there not been some inside stuff going on here that I wanted to be a part of.

Except for Flounder, who I wish I'd never met at all.

No seriously, this is dancing. It's just all the weight, braddah.
Annnnh forget it. Back to the uke. I'll play - you dance.

On 2006-06-01 21:27, woofmutt wrote:

...the good ship Tiki Central Topic X is sailing along, its course set for [i]Topic X Island...

... so, in your story, is "topic x island" really girls gone wild island?... if so, then the "good ship tiki central topic x" would be the girls gone wild helicopter... (or maybe the ggw jet, but helicopters are way cooler than boring jets)...

... that story rules...

no good deed goes unpunished?

i appreciate what you're gettin' at, woofmutt. tc can be a bit of jungle to romp through these days ... and one thing don't necessarily lead to another in any sort of logical way.

another thing to keep in mind is that there's also tiki shout for all sorts of bablyon and tourette-ical typing.

tiki chris

Well I thought I was making a very obvious joke by immediately going off topic on a post about going off topic but it seems I have offended some folks. I meant no harm and thought it appropriate only because of the light hearted style of the original post.Apparently it was read as being mean-spirited and I certainly didn't intend it to be so.

Getting back on topic, check this out!!!

http://www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/Default.aspx

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore 2006-06-02 11:45 ]

On 2006-06-02 08:19, RevBambooBen wrote:
Getting back on topic, check this out!!!

:lol: Great site.

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - shortened link - 2006-06-02 11:46 ]

On 2006-06-02 06:06, pablus wrote:
What if you happen to know that Topic X Cove sucks and is filled with stinging jellyfish and all the bars there only play country music and serve ultra light beer?

If you're not interested in Topic X Cove, then don't go to Topic X Cove. No one's making you stay on the boat, and there are plenty of other boats to be had (you can even make your own!), so there's no reason to hijack someone else's.

What if Topic X Cove has been visited 359 times already and you're tired of the same palm tree with its 4 coconuts and the same outcropping of lava rock that looks like Gerald Ford and you had 3012 pictures of Topic X Cove and 359 Captain's Logs that describe its every detail?

Again, there's a lot of boats in the sea, and no one's making you take that one! You may have visited Topic X Cove 359 times, but it's apparently the first trip for somebody, and they're entitled to it. You'd be doing them a fantastic favor if you point out the great bounty that can be had by using the search, or by even directing them straight to a previous thread, but you're not obligated to do that.

As far as the personal insights and asides, that's one of the things that intrigued and held my interest on this board in the first place. I know more about you, woofmutt, than you realize from reading inside barbs and jokes between you and some of the earlier members here.

But I do agree that there are better forums than General Tiki for it.

I just would hate to think how many truly good friends I wouldn't have made had there not been some inside stuff going on here that I wanted to be a part of.

I absolutely agree with this -- the general rule of thumb that I use is that if I have something off-topic to interject with, I try to at least wrap up my post with something that brings it back on topic.

Except for Flounder, who I wish I'd never met at all.

Try hypnotherapy. :wink:

Maybe it's just me, but I would think a cove that features an "outcropping of lava rock that looks like Gerald Ford" would be worth revisiting again and again.

Disclaimer:

The above comment by lanikai (re; a common food condiment) was a vague attempt at levity in an otherwise (possibly) overly analyzed subject.
It was not in any way, shape or form meant to be considered, construed, interpreted, nor inferred and especially not to be misunderstood that the author of said post had to go out of their way to post a smart-ass, off-topic comment, which was not the intention. Nor was I meaning to do that. Although it may appear to be a totally inappropriate, cheap move considering the topic, it was, again, simply a vague attempt at humor to lighten a topheavy, circumlocutory post. Not my job, I know... But it in no way was it meant to, in any manner, appear that I was belittling Woofmutt's totally valid post.

The above explanations are given solely for the purpose of helping keep Tiki Central one of the most friendly and interesting (and easy to read and traverse) places on the whole WWW.
I am in no way affiliated with the company that makes the product. I just like the product.
Park and lock it. Not responsible.

I like twine....

Anyone else ever notice that the Munktiki fugu mug, when observed from above, looks like Charlie Brown meets Hellraiser?!?!

Im just glad there are few icebergs for HMAS TC to hit in the Pacific. But rogue waves in the middle of the night...

Good on ya Woofmutt :)

It's an important principle and woofmutt's post is an effective reminder. On a short-term basis, I often turn to TC for a laugh or some "free-associative" thinking among people with similar interests. But so much of TC's long-term value is as a research tool and repository of history and practical knowledge. Imagining someone reading a thread five years into the future, eagerly seeking useful information on the topic, is probably a useful little mental exercise. I'll do this from now on, in order to think twice before making associative comments that, while perhaps of some interest in themselves, have the practical impact of veering "laterally" into other territory.

Anyway, everything in its proper place I guess. I for one will be more mindful of the need for focus, discipline and restraint outlined in woofmutt's post. It's important.

Well said Humu. I find myself asking questions that long time TC'ers have long since debated and moved on from. What's wonderful is when a long term TCer takes a few moments to update and direct to the previous thread.

It's great that newer TC members can jump and discuss the same topic. All members can jump in, or not. There are always new things to discover and discuss. Some people are just at newer places than others.
Humor interjection, done respectfully, adds to the environment. As long as the general spirit of the thread is kept.

[ Edited by: Coco Loco 2006-06-03 12:28 ]

On 2006-06-02 10:07, Humuhumu wrote:

... the general rule of thumb that I use is that if I have something off-topic to interject with, I try to at least wrap up my post with something that brings it back on topic.

Except for Flounder, who I wish I'd never met at all.

Try hypnotherapy...

... just like the end of that post... right back on topic...

Hmmm...I thought it was funny that Saxotica went off topic on a topic about going off topic...I admit, I had the same idea myself when I read this...so in keeping with this spirit...

I'm wearing a white shirt....is anyone else?

I don't think that "funny" should always be an excuse for going off-topic.

I often think that there are TCers who, the whole time they're reading TC, are thinking "what funny comment can I post here?" and then posting whatever comes to mind, without thinking about if it's going to derail a good dialog, or be inappropriate, or would just be a better topic without the comment. I have to say that considering that woofmutt took the time to write up a pretty detailed post about NOT going off topic, that it's kinda lame to just post off-topic comments here, just becuase it's "funny". Anyone else agree, or is that just me?

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore 2006-06-03 18:41 ]

There might be a few different notions about what is being discussed here. Let me clarify what I have in mind when I address this topic.

It is not the interjection of a quick bit of humor such as, for example, a pun that comes to someone's mind during the course of a thread, or whatever. You're reading a fairly serious discussion of some topic and then someone makes some hilarious comment and you're laughing out loud. I couldn't agree more that that's one of the great pleasures of TC.

Nor is it the scenario of someone deliberately changing a topic, for example entering a thread about "Tiki Tony's bar in Jersey City" and saying, "I hate Tiki Tony's in Jersey City -- Luau Larry's in Hoboken is much better..." and going on at length about Luau Larry's. That kind of blatant "hijacking" strikes me as pretty rare.

For me what comes to mind is something like this: Someone starts a thread asking for advice on how to construct a little waterfall, using tiki design elements, in their garden. A number of concrete suggestions come in, along with expressions of enthusiasm for the project, because the subtle noise of falling water enhances a tiki environment so well. Spurred by these comments, someone posts an exuberant post about how the sound of trickling water is conducive to a zen-like state, constructs a musicological theory about how it is the basis for the very concept of rhythm, and relates an anecdote from his travels in Mozambique to bolster this theory.

It's not malicious, it's just a bit lazily unmindful of the fact that the thread is for the exchange of a certain type of focused information. It also might spur followup posts about anything from Zen to Mozambique. Uncool! The thread-creator and others wanted to have a particular type of discussion.

So, those are my two cents. I know about this naughty tendency because I have on occasion noticed it in a certain TC member ... myself! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

The same notion, to post an absurdly off-topic comment, occurred to me as well, right off the bat. I refrained from doing so, but I can't criticize something too harshly when I came close to doing it myself. I think I thought to myself at the time, "well, that's too obvious, too predictable -- and therefore not really that funny." I think I was right.

A few of them seemed inevitable and no problem but I kept waiting for an unstated consensus along the lines of, "OK, we get it ... now, about the issues raised in this thread..." to emerge. I'm not sure it has, even yet.

Maybe attempts at constructive criticism and reform raise suspicions that the initiator is putting himself in a position of moral authority of some sort, and an irreverent spirit emerges to kind of resist this. The off-topic posts might be a manifestation of this.

For the record, I think these suspicions are unwarranted in the case of woofmutt's post.

On 2006-06-03 18:36, hanford_lemoore wrote:
Anyone else agree, or is that just me?

well, in the short term, these off-topic quips may (or may not) add a bit of levity to a thread. but, in the long term those same posts often seem like speed bumps when trying to navigate and find information about ... tiki.

it's always hard to judge whether being a smart ass is appropriate. i think woofmutt's suggestions, at the very least, are a good rule of thumb.

also, keep in mind that these posts are here for a loooong time. sometimes i shudder when i happen upon old (5+ years) posts that i wrote. 'what was i thinking?' it's one thing to interject w/ an off-topic comment in a verbal conversation - it's another to post something that's recorded for years.

tiki chris

I think part of the reason for these responses is that some of us know Woofmutt from shout. He is an extremely funny guy with a great sense of humor. Now this doesn't mean we didn't understand his point. Personally I don't have a problem reading through all the posts with all kinds of comments and finding what I want. However, maybe a flashing sign, should appear every time we tend to veer off the original topic and tell us to focus.

The reason Hanford created Shout was to provide an outlet for that stuff, to keep it out of the forums. That's why Bilge is there, too. Two different places to let your inner spaz out, lovingly crafted just for you by Hanford Lemoore.

Unlike some readers who have tons of time to delve through forum after forum day in and day out, I get here when I get here- unfortunately much more infrequently than I like. When I'm here, I'm here to talk Tiki.

Yeah, I've been around for a long time, and yeah, Tiki is a big part of my life. And of course, I have friends here too- friends I NEVER would have met were it not for TC, but much of the 'conversations' I tend to have with those folks are either via PMs or even e-mail. I don't need to clog TC with non-sequitor speedbumps. On topic humour is humourous, bilge, is well, bilge. Amd it belongs in bilge- hopefully anyone who's been around here long enough understands the difference. But with the ever increasing bilge in the main forums, newcommers may not always understand that difference. Hanford understood the need for exactly such spaces, and he built both, 'cause let's face it- there is a time (and now place) for horsing around and making drunken jokes, unfortunately that's rarely in the middle of say, a wonderful thread about the finer points of a Witco product line. Drunken profound wisdowm, on the other hand, I always welcome- the problem I'm finding is that some people are unable to tell the difference prior to hitting the "submit" button.

Woffmutt's post was gently written and in exactly the right spirit, just my opinion. I like both what he had to say, and the WAY in which he said it.

On 2006-06-04 10:41, hiltiki wrote:
... some of us know Woofmutt from shout. He is an extremely funny guy with a great sense of humor.

exactly.

[ Edited by: Tiki Chris 2006-06-04 12:31 ]

On 2006-06-04 10:41, hiltiki wrote:
Now this doesn't mean we didn't understand his point.

Well, it means you either didn't understand it, or understood it and ignored it.

However, maybe a flashing sign, should appear every time we tend to veer off the original topic and tell us to focus.

First and foremost, we should all try to automatically make this place easier to read and maintain to help our dear moderators out. The longer someone has been on TC the more I expect them to do the right thing without flashing signs. Because Tiki Central gets bigger with every post, it's really the only way this place is not going to collapse under it's own weight.

Secondly, warnings are difficult to give correctly. A month ago I warned some people about continually hassling a new TCer and to try and use PMs and it caused a bunch of whining ("we can't post what we want to anymore!!","Hanford is an evil dictator!" blah blah blah).

*On 2006-06-03 18:51, Thomas wrote:*It is not the interjection of a quick bit of humor such as, for example, a pun that comes to someone's mind during the course of a thread, or whatever. You're reading a fairly serious discussion of some topic and then someone makes some hilarious comment and you're laughing out loud. I couldn't agree more that that's one of the great pleasures of TC.

I agree with this too. I just think people need to look at the big picture when making posts like that: have five other people already posted basically the same joke? etc. I think we can all agree that there's times when a joke or off-topic comment works and is not distracting, and times where it is.

I have a propencity to sometimes veer wildly off topic and have thought about how to save thre rest of the people here on TC from the output of my whirling brain, I came up with the idea of the "Off Topic Post Thread" in Bilge. You can simply quote the post you're veering wildly off of, or link back to the thread that you're spinning off from, and then you can go ahead & say what you wanted to say, no matter how off topic from ther original post you go you'll still be on topic for being "Off Topic."

On 2006-06-04 18:06, freddiefreelance wrote:
I have a propencity to sometimes veer wildly off topic and have thought about how to save thre rest of the people here on TC from the output of my whirling brain, I came up with the idea of the "Off Topic Post Thread" in Bilge. You can simply quote the post you're veering wildly off of, or link back to the thread that you're spinning off from, and then you can go ahead & say what you wanted to say, no matter how off topic from ther original post you go you'll still be on topic for being "Off Topic."

Hey Freddie! Perfect time for you to move to the OC!

No more tiki bars left!

Arrrrr!!!

BUT!!! lots o pink stucco!!!

For some reason and another and another I was reminded of this thread today.

Now I must take my broom in hand and go down to the beach to sweep back that pesky incoming tide.