Language Assistance

Hey there TC'rs

I am in need of some help, so I turned here first. I am getting a new tattoo, and I wanted to get a Hawaiian themed "Man's Ruin" piece for my arm. Problem is... I don't know how to say "Man's Ruin" in Hawaiian!

I know Kâne means "man" but I don't know the Genitive form of the word (or if Hawaiian even has a Genitive Case).

Anyone here speak Hawaiian well enough to help me out? I would hate to get it screwed up... ink is forever!

Mahalo!

Krakatowa

There might be a few folk here who could lend a bit of a hand, but keep in mind that Tiki Central mainly pays tribute to the warped, artificial, inaccurate view of Polynesia through the eyes of midcentury America -- thus making us a terrible resource if you're looking for any sort of accuracy!

Your local hula halau may be able to give you some more appropriate guidance.

On 2006-06-14 14:44, Humuhumu wrote:
There might be a few folk here who could lend a bit of a hand, but keep in mind that Tiki Central mainly pays tribute to the warped, artificial, inaccurate view of Polynesia through the eyes of midcentury America -- thus making us a terrible resource if you're looking for any sort of accuracy!

Your local hula halau may be able to give you some more appropriate guidance.

Trust me, my home is a hodgepodge collection of Hawaiian, Tahitian, Haitian, and anything and everything in between. Any help offered would be appreciated. Not too many Hawaiians in Orlando.

maybe try this, if that doesnt work I have a few other language links I can send you.

The thing is, you'll want to get it vetted by a reliable source before you ink it onto your body... so you're going to want to find someone you can trust a bit better than a bunch of (loveable) yahoos on a website specializing in fake Polynesia. By all means, start your searchfor answers here on TC if you want, but please get it double-checked somewhere else!

Here's a list of hula halaus in Orlando, Florida, I got this list from Mele.com:

Orlando: Halau Hula `O Kawaimapuna
Hank Ohumukini, Phone: 407-850-1005

Orlando: Halau Hula Kaleooka`iwa
Kawehi Punahele, Phone: 407-257-8585

Orlando: Halau Hula O Kalaniu`i / Tamarii Moahi
Teuruhei Buchin Cruz, Phone: 407-857-5357

Orlando: Kalena's Polynesian `Ohana
Evelyn Oloa, Phone: 407-851-7205

Orlando: Na Opiopio I Orlando
Kaui Brandt, Phone: 407-340-6711

http://wehewehe.org/gsdl2.5/cgi-bin/hdict?a=q&r=1&hs=1&e=q-0hdict--00-0-0--010---4----den--0-000lpm--1en-Zz-1---Zz-1-home---00031-0000escapewin-00&q=man%27s+ruin&j=pm&hdid=0&hdds=0

what's wrong with having it done in yer own language?

like trivialising the sacred Maori Moko, your tattoo slogan is something that quite possibly, in many's estimation, should not be translated into Hawaiian....
for many reasons, not the least of which may be illustrated by this link...
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/essays/tattoos.htm

like the dude who wanted a traditional Hawaiian tattoo and ended up with an armband. with a cartoon wave design. Both concepts decidedly un Hawaiian. (and definitely not " traditional "... and yet, he was led to believe it was "definitely traditional Hawaiian".)
so. he's stuck with something he didn't want. which puts him in the position of claiming it's what he wanted. Cuz a tattoo... well, it's purrdamned permanent. so be careful.

[ Edited by: lanikai 2006-06-14 16:09 ]

On 2006-06-14 16:08, lanikai wrote:
what's wrong with having it done in yer own language?

like trivialising the sacred Maori Moko, your tattoo slogan is something that quite possibly, in many's estimation, should not be translated into Hawaiian....
for many reasons, not the least of which may be illustrated by this link...
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/essays/tattoos.htm

like the dude who wanted a traditional Hawaiian tattoo and ended up with an armband. with a cartoon wave design. Both concepts decidedly un Hawaiian. (and definitely not " traditional "... and yet, he was led to believe it was "definitely traditional Hawaiian".)
so. he's stuck with something he didn't want. which puts him in the position of claiming it's what he wanted. Cuz a tattoo... well, it's purrdamned permanent. so be careful.

[ Edited by: lanikai 2006-06-14 16:09 ]

I spent the best years of my life breakdancing on the streets of Waikiki... Hawai'i is an important aspect of who I am, even if I am a Haole. I want something to reflect that, as well as my love for Poly-pop kitsch :wink: I only want as authentic as one can find in Waikiki... a poly-pop pidgeon paradise!

\
^^^/
uuu SHAKA
| |

This reminds me of a gal I met recently at a party. She had a tattoo on her hip of a Hebrew word. I know some Hebrew so I asked her about it. When asked what it said she had an answer like "It means something like..." "No, what does it say. What's the word?" She did not know. She had a Jewish boyfriend who wrote it out for her to have tattooed. I was able to tell her that it was the word root for saving. Maybe saviour, but I'd need a dictionary to be sure.

So what she ended up with was a tattoo that she didn't understand and didn't really mean anything to her except some old boyfriend in some way. The Hebrew was hard to read because the tattoo was blurry. Blurry as her idea of what it was. And to most people it meant nothing and to those who know Hebrew, it is just a word. It was, unfortunately written in a more modern form of Hebrew that takes it firmly out of any spiritual context. All in all, it ended up being meaningless, except as a small historical marker for her. One she actually regrets.

This I see all too often in tattoos. More tattoos people say they don't care for or would change or never have done to begin with. Tattoos of Chinese and Arabic script by people who cannot read them themselves. They assume they know what it says and that it was drawn correctly. Does that little curl make it a different letter? Who knows?

IMO, not knowing what is written on your body is just wrong. The meaning is lost on many levels. And you want a tattoo to have meaning.

As an example: I have a "Lodge" name that is one I gave myself to be known as on any documents and in the "Lodge." This name is actually more of a motto, and it should be in a classic language. I spent a lot of time researching this and came to a certain motto. I have the comfort of knowing that phrase through and through and spent a great deal of time researching it. Learning enough Latin to translate the phrase and the various meanings behind it. And, the phrase is actually a Latin phrase that loses its meaning in English.

That level of knowing the subject leads to a tattoo that has meaning.

Okay. I need to get off the soapbox. Krakatoa, I am not ranting about you. I am generally anti-tattoo and so, I can rant about it without much provocation. Actually, I am just anti-meaningless tattooing. Hipster tattooing.

Nevermind... Do what you wanna do. Just, make it mean something to you and those who see it.

On 2006-06-15 08:05, Swanky wrote:
This I see all too often in tattoos. More tattoos people say they don't care for or would change or never have done to begin with. Tattoos of Chinese and Arabic script by people who cannot read them themselves. They assume they know what it says and that it was drawn correctly. Does that little curl make it a different letter? Who knows?

Like Britney Spears thinking she got a tattoo that said she was "Mysterious" in Kanji, but it turned to say she's "Strange." Link to story. Or NBA-star Shawn Marion thinking he got his nickname, "The Matrix," on his leg and ending up with "demon filled with mothballs" instead. Or David Beckham having his wife's name mispelled in Hindi on his arm ("Vihctoria"? oops!). Or Tom Cruise & Katie Holmes naming their Daughter Suri because it means "Princess" in Hebrew (I believe it really means "Go Away" in an insulting manner? Swanky, Ran, could you verify?).

Definitely ask several speakers of Hawai'ian first, maybe one of the Profs in the Center for Hawaiian Studies at U of H?

On 2006-06-15 06:52, Krakatowa wrote:
I spent the best years of my life breakdancing on the streets of Waikiki...

a poly-pop pidgeon paradise!

aaah. we have you to thank for the plethora of street performers blocking our Kalakaua avenue sidewalks!

even pidgeons don't have room to hang here with all the dancers, concrete and tourons. They all left. It ain't their paradise anymore.

On 2006-06-15 06:52, Krakatowa wrote:

I spent the best years of my life breakdancing on the streets of Waikiki...

Wow. That statement fascinates the hell out of me for some reason.

Have you considered a tattoo of Kamehameha doing the worm?

If you go through with getting any tattoo, please post pics.

Cheers,
Tiki Chris

On 2006-06-18 14:05, Tiki Chris wrote:
Have you considered a tattoo of Kamehameha doing the worm?

that in itself would guarantee a very definite persona non grata status in Hawaii. or most anywhere in Polynesia.