Trader Vic's Bev Hills closing THIS TUESDAY???!!! . . .

On 2007-05-02 18:38, Swamp Tiki wrote:
Ohana:

Ironically, developers (large and small) live in a fantasy world far removed from our own. They genuinely believe that their ideas of urban development are bettering the world around them. They cannot understand that "old" can be a good thing. Developers see open lands or older properties as antiquated and lack-luster. We in the preservation field constantly push for the establishment of districts that are governed by zoning ordinances. This is the only way to keep these mis-guided souls in check. When protective measures are in place and part of public policy there isn't much they can do except buy off a politician...

...
What cranks my ass is (when protective measures aren't in place) that they don't ask for the opinions of the "little people." Instead they rock our world with their fat-cat design schemes and then expect us to except it and live with it. Developers don't care about whats right for our communites only whats right for them. @#!!*@##!!!!

Swamp

What? That's the sort of fringe talk that makes places close their doors early to avoid having to deal with this absurdity. If these developers are so off their rocker, we will see their new plans stay empty as no one buys the condos. Yeah right. They will make a killing!

These arguments are ridiculous. And many of the things that are done in the name of preservation are anti-business. Is the Mai Kai on the register of historic places? No. They would fight that tooth and nail.

No one seems to be looking at this situation rightly. You own the Beverly Hills Trader Vic's franchise. It cost you many millions to buy. Every month, you are losing many thousands of dollars because business is slow. The property is, luckily, very valuable. There is a board meeting and an offer is made and you decide that it is time to stop the losses by selling. Maybe the previous owner used the place to offset a lot of capital gains they had. Maybe the property has remained becuase it was used as a tax shelter and has always been waiting for a buy out to make it worth dumping for another loser investment. Check the records. Did it change owners every 5 years? The IRS won't let you keep a losing investment forever...

Stop harshing on Trader Vic's. It is the last chain out there and the only ones widely serving a real good tropical drink.

The attitude here is exactly why they closed the doors quietly.

On 2007-05-03 10:35, Swanky wrote:

These arguments are ridiculous. And many of the things that are done in the name of preservation are anti-business. Is the Mai Kai on the register of historic places? No. They would fight that tooth and nail.

No one seems to be looking at this situation rightly. You own the Beverly Hills Trader Vic's franchise. It cost you many millions to buy. Every month, you are losing many thousands of dollars because business is slow. The property is, luckily, very valuable. There is a board meeting and an offer is made and you decide that it is time to stop the losses by selling. Maybe the previous owner used the place to offset a lot of capital gains they had. Maybe the property has remained becuase it was used as a tax shelter and has always been waiting for a buy out to make it worth dumping for another loser investment. Check the records. Did it change owners every 5 years? The IRS won't let you keep a losing investment forever...

On 2007-05-03 08:08, christiki295 wrote:
I have been there probably over a dozen times in the last couple of years and can attest there was no lack of patronage, either at the bar or the restaurant.

NOPE the Mai Kai is not on the National Register of Historic Places......that was where I decided to quit posting on my thread....after listening to the same people who whine about losing their historic Tiki locations then turn around and say in complete ignorance "but we KNOW the family that owns the Mai Kai and if they want to sell and make a few bucks after all their years of hard work then what right do we have to take that from them!"
That's where the problems started!
Number one just because a property is Historically Registered not only does it NOT prevent someone from selling it and making a profit it just protects the property from being torn down or changed without approval and EVEN THEN that doesn't stop the wrecking ball....I can't tell you how many Historic sites around the San Francisco Bay Area have met their makers due to new updating of earthquake codes!

The closure/sale of Trader Vic's Beverly Hills was simply about greed and making more money in the short term....no one was "losing" any money there.

A Historically Protected site pretty much helps the little guys, (the public), to at least stand up to the BIG Guys....City Developers, Walmart, Walgreens, Hotel Chains and so on, long enough to have a say in what they can and can't do with a protected property.....often times chasing them away for easier pickings!

I would say that if the over all attitude persists we can say good bye to the Mai Kai within the next few years!

Here are some other Historically Significant designs that as time and tastes changed people just saw fit to bulldoze them and put in more houses on less land.....it bugs me to no end!

Eichler Homes, the company run by Joseph Eichler from 1949 to 1966, built more than 10,000 homes in the San Francisco area and about 900 in Southern California.

http://totheweb.com/eichler/

Googie architecture was born of the post-WWII car-culture and thrived in the 1950s and 1960s. Bold angles, colorful signs, plate glass, sweeping cantilevered roofs and pop-culture imagery captured the attention of drivers on adjacent streets.

http://www.spaceagecity.com/googie/

What you are talking about is a property rights issue. Historical protection means that the owner of a property no longer has the free right to change that property. This is good if you want to see a building remain looking as it has for historical and or sentimental reasons. But it sucks if you own the property and you really feel like the way it looks is a negative and you'd like to change it. It also stinks if you simply want to replace the old windows with something modern and then find out you don't get to pick, someone else decides what windows you can replace them with.

It would also prevent the owners of the Mai Kai, the original family still, from ever remodeling the place they built. It would mean someone else decided how the building should look.

There are a lot of good reasons to do this. Maintaining the character of a neighborhood is important. But it is a tricky balancing act. And putting a place on a historic register against the wishes of the owner is obviously a conflict.

I am for it in most regards. Regrettably, most conservancies don't recognize anything under 100 years old as valuable around here.

Read most of the entries on this topic but I still don't know if the old Trader Vic's bar crew will be mixing at this new poolside bar - if they're not and all you get is the usual bland , sugarery "tropical" cocktails that most bars do then what's the point of going ?
In the end though, it's sad that, like most developers, the new owners of the Beverly Hilton have no idea whatsoever of the cultural importance of the building's they destroy. Trader Vic's had only a small footprint on the overall Hilton layout and it wouldn't have required much imagination to have incorporated TV's into the new development but property developers aren't exactly known for their imagination I guess (just look at some of the eyesore malls thrown up all across Southern California in the last twenty years.)
And picking up on another point made earlier on the thread, I don't think the new owners' nationality has anything to do with their destroying of an American cultural landmark. Back in the UK there was the great Beachcomber Bar at the Mayfair Hotel (possibly one of the greatest Tiki bars in Western Europe) which was gutted by it's UK owners in the mid-1980s to make way for a bland conference centre. Property developers and corporations worldwide don't really give a damn about "cultural landmark's" or popular culture in general.

On 2007-05-02 18:38, Swamp Tiki wrote:
Ohana:

Ironically, developers (large and small) live in a fantasy world far removed from our own. They genuinely believe that their ideas of urban development are bettering the world around them. They cannot understand that "old" can be a good thing. Developers see open lands or older properties as antiquated and lack-luster.

Excellent idea. It is probably the best tool against such development.

On 2007-05-02 17:12, Humuhumu wrote:
I've shared my thoughts on the current direction of Trader Vic's in a lengthy post on my blog:

Trader Vic’s Becomes Trader Meh

Those press releases are so blase as to be infuriating. I do feel for them -- I'm sure they didn't want to be banished to the pool. But their "nothing's really changing!" attitude, combined with their lackluster efforts with the new locations... they're just so far from the Trader Vic's I want to support.

True, how the deal occurred would be more telling: whether their lease ran out; whether they allowed themselves to be bought out, etc.
However, this TV location was doomed because of the land was so ripe for development - just like Sams in Huntington Beach.

I don't blame TV for letting it happen. However, I do hope they attempt to leverage their good business will by relocating elsewhere in the area. Otherwise, I will have grounds for ill feelings.

On 2007-05-03 13:03, Swanky wrote:
What you are talking about is a property rights issue. Historical protection means that the owner of a property no longer has the free right to change that property. This is good if you want to see a building remain looking as it has for historical and or sentimental reasons. But it sucks if you own the property and you really feel like the way it looks is a negative and you'd like to change it. It also stinks if you simply want to replace the old windows with something modern and then find out you don't get to pick, someone else decides what windows you can replace them with.

It would also prevent the owners of the Mai Kai, the original family still, from ever remodeling the place they built. It would mean someone else decided how the building should look.

There are a lot of good reasons to do this. Maintaining the character of a neighborhood is important. But it is a tricky balancing act. And putting a place on a historic register against the wishes of the owner is obviously a conflict.

I am for it in most regards. Regrettably, most conservancies don't recognize anything under 100 years old as valuable around here.

Swanky....you are 100% correct!
In most cases after 50 plus years the property is no longer owned by the original builder/designer/owner usually a descendant if it is still "in the family". And living in a Historically Registered neighborhood I am completely FOR the idea that after a certain period of time, or historical significance that a property SHOULD be under the protection of a government agency for future generations...isn't this exactly what all the bitchin' here is about?

And please, let's not bring up "WINDOWS"....unless anyone else here LIVES IN A HISTORICALLY REGISTERED HOME I don't know if you understand just how much I understand the pros and cons of this!

I've wanted to replace my windows for years....They average 60"x75" (this was before most people even had electricity), and NO TWO WINDOWS ARE THE EXACT SAME MEASUREMENT.....this was a time when people were building everything CUSTOM on the job site....for me as a historical property owner I can't use vinyl windows, (wouldn't want to), no aluminum, steel, or fiberglass...they have to be custom wood framed, double hung windows.....and the VERY THING I WANT TO REPLACE THEM FOR .....DOUBLE PANE GLASS....the city fights me for.....regardless of the fact that I get no tax benefits for up keeping a historical property and it would cost me over $1,000 PER WINDOW X 22 PLUS WINDOWS FOR A TOTAL OVER $22,000 FOR FREAKIN' WINDOWS....while a new home can replace every window in the house and a sliding glass door for around $6,500....still I have doubled my money in 3 years and I CAN ALWAYS MOVE if I want to.

After 50 plus years and an income generating business please do not try to tell me that the owners of the Mai Kai or any other established business that's a Historical Landmark is unable to sell their business for a profit!

The very reason why there is a National Trust for Historic Preservation in this country and all over the UK when I traveled there was because cities, property owners, and developers all called historic properties just "old buildings" and felt it was time for a change.....if you want to side with the land owners who want to make a quick buck well I can think of a lot of historically significant sites "sitting" on valuable property that we should start tearing down.

Wow! I'm sorry! Suddenly I feel like I'm arguing against the property owners of the Hilton/Trader Vic's.

Maybe we should start a splinter group...instead of the "Urban Archaeologist" looking at what's now past we should start a group of 'URBAN PRESERVATIONISTS'!

Bummer, it's a real tragedy that TV's has been taken from us. But I suspect that the bottom line was the bottom line! Those tiki businesses that show a solid profit are less likely to meet an untimely demise than the most hallowed halls of "Tiki-dom" that are in the red. So c'mon, boys and girls, let's get out there and have a cold tropical drink... after all, it's for a good cause!

Tiki Ti is owned by a family.
Hala Kahiki is owned by a family.
Omni Hut is owned by a family.
Mai Kai is owned by a family.

All of these families directly own, operate, and are present day to day in these businesses.

Now let's compare this to the situation at hand...

'nuff said.

Ya lost me, Sparky. Are you saying that (for instance) the Buhens would continue running Tiki Ti even if they went broke doing it? I mean, I suppose it's possible, but...

Let's be very clear about the "business volume" aspect regarding Trader Vic's Beverly Hills. The place was doing great business. Period. I can personally attest to this fact. Great crowds. Full tables. Filled-in bar. Even the Marco Polo Room was seeing the activity of special occasions, and handling the overflow from impromtu gatherings.

Whatever arguements anyone wants to leverage (fairly) in favor of the Demolitionists, in this case, poor patronage was, for the record, absolutely not one of them.

And yes, KTV, since we certainly want the brothers and sisters to be working, the Staff will indeed (according to all recent sources) be crafting the drinks poolside. No word on the Flaming Beef Cho-Cho's yet.

"Don't let it be forgot,
That once there was a Spot,
Where Blowfish all wore sunglasses,
and Tiki-times were hot..."

[ Edited by: Son-of-Kelbo 2007-05-04 21:14 ]

Cool... I'm sure glad you clarified that for me! I was afraid that Tiki-oriented businesses were subject to the same economic constraints as other business enterprises; now I know better. Thanks for the update!

On 2007-05-04 21:12, Son-of-Kelbo wrote:

No word on the Flaming Beef Cho-Cho's yet.

I saw it on the menu. The entire pu-pu menu is the same, although the dinner menu is now Circa 55.

[ Edited by: christiki295 2007-05-07 00:02 ]

On 2007-05-04 21:12, Son-of-Kelbo wrote:
Let's be very clear about the "business volume" aspect regarding Trader Vic's Beverly Hills. The place was doing great business. Period. I can personally attest to this fact. Great crowds. Full tables. Filled-in bar. Even the Marco Polo Room was seeing the activity of special occasions, and handling the overflow from impromtu gatherings.

Whatever arguements anyone wants to leverage (fairly) in favor of the Demolitionists, in this case, poor patronage was, for the record, absolutely not one of them.

---

True. As bad as the food was, I was always amazed at the amount of dinner patronage. From old-school Beverly Hills blue hairs to young agents drinking after a long day at CAA, the place was always busy, any given day of the week. At their prices, they had to be making money, hands down. That's why I believed them when I produced my LA times article on their demolition and they told me "five years from now." Seems like everybody was towing the line.

If there is a positive to come of this, it means all of us LA residents who are pool-less can get a decent cocktail poolside in an upscale atmosphere. Most weekend hotel pool scenes, save for The Beverly Hills Hotel (which you must be a guest or have 1000 bucks at the ready to "buy" a cabana), consist of horribly grotesque sub-human life forms that consider the Hard Rock Pool in vegas to be the center of the universe.

P.S.
Where were the Weinstein's during all of this? Does anybody know? Miramax and then of course, The Weinstein Co., always threw their big Golden Globe parties at the Trader's place. Those guys still have a lot of muscle around town...no use now I guess.

And they raised the drink prices.

http://www.beverlyhilton.com/pdf/Trader_Vics_New_Cocktail_Menu_41607.pdf

I was only able to get to Trader Vic's Beverly Hills once before it closed down, but I must have timed it poorly. I went in 2006, and when I went in (at about 6:00 pm on a weeknight) the place was like a tomb, and my son and I were the only patrons. When we left after our meal about an hour later it was maybe 25% occupied. Still, the place was awesome and the Mai Tai's were wonderful, and I am bummed that it is gone.

The Beverly Hilton replaced Trader Vic's with a lounge (bar210) and nightclub (plush) that are opening this weekend.

You can see what the space looks like now here:

http://la.eater.com/archives/2010/02/16/marcel_vignerons_new_stomping_ground_bar210_and_plush.php?o=1

On 2010-02-19 13:02, MauiRose wrote:
The Beverly Hilton replaced Trader Vic's with a lounge (bar210) and nightclub (plush) that are opening this weekend.

You can see what the space looks like now here:

http://la.eater.com/archives/2010/02/16/marcel_vignerons_new_stomping_ground_bar210_and_plush.php?o=1

Thanks for the good news

On 2010-02-19 13:02, MauiRose wrote:
The Beverly Hilton replaced Trader Vic's
with a lounge (bar210) and
nightclub (plush) that are opening this weekend.

http://la.eater.com/archives/2010/02/16/marcel_vignerons_new_stomping_ground_bar210_and_plush.php?o=1

what a bunch of fucking douchebags !
i can´t believe they destroyed history for that kind of bullshit .
that crap looks like 356458 other "ultralounges"
and probably has the lifespan of a flash in the pan.

[ Edited by: icebaer69 2010-02-19 13:34 ]

On 2010-02-19 13:33, icebaer69 wrote:

On 2010-02-19 13:02, MauiRose wrote:
The Beverly Hilton replaced Trader Vic's
with a lounge (bar210) and
nightclub (plush) that are opening this weekend.

http://la.eater.com/archives/2010/02/16/marcel_vignerons_new_stomping_ground_bar210_and_plush.php?o=1

what a bunch of fucking douchebags !
i can´t believe they destroyed history for that kind of bullshit .
that crap looks like 356458 other "ultralounges"
and probably has the lifespan of a flash in the pan.

[ Edited by: icebaer69 2010-02-19 13:34 ]

ha!

So I guess a "field trip" is out of the question? :D

[ Edited by: Murph 2010-02-19 14:33 ]

On 2010-02-19 13:33, icebaer69 wrote:

what a bunch of fucking douchebags !
i can´t believe they destroyed history for that kind of bullshit .
that crap looks like 356458 other "ultralounges"
and probably has the lifespan of a flash in the pan.

While I have noted and appreciated the self-editing that has kept this site for the most part potty-mouth free...

Here! Here!
My sentiments exactly! icebaer69, you took the words right outta my mouth!

And no, Murph, no field trip.

This is truly killing me. Ahhh... Come to think about it I think I will kill myself right now. All the nice memories of the old days at Trader Vic's are just memories..........

I also concur with the douchebag assessment.

lame.....

they close vics, saying they are going to tear down the building to make condos.
then the economy goes in the S tank, so they open up this crappy same as every other lounge.

this its one of the many things wrong with this world.

Jeff(btd)

On 2010-02-20 10:09, bigtikidude wrote:
... tear down the building to make condos ...

are those condo/waldorf-astoria-plans ...
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/19/business/fi-hilton19
... "officially" cancelled (until further notice) ?

that whole desaster reminds me of the implosion of the stardust in las vegas -
now (and probably for many years to come) just an empty lot :(

ps:

"...
bar210 (pronounced two-one-oh) and
plush, a dual lounge and nightclub with small plates
controlled by Top Cheffer and ex-Bazaar alum, Marcel Vigneron.
..."

i wonder which knucklehead...ehmmm, sorry ... which "marketing genius"
created the names "BAR210" and "PLUSH" ? ? ?
this clown should slap himself in the face 48hours/day ...

Fuck it, I'll dare say it. Its our dumb corporate mentality that "Everything is for sale to anyone", has ruined the whole United States. The ignorant douchebag, first generation Israeli Jewish guy who bought the Beverly Hilton doesn't have a clue about "American Culture"-anything, and really doesn't care.

I blame everyone who sells chunks of America to "Foreign investments". I can assure all of you, I'm not a racist, and I'm not naive to how this country was founded. My problem lies with the people who cheat and abuse the system for nothing more than self gain. Having no respect for anything, Do you think that Beny Algerem went through the whole process of immigration and got sworn in at Dodger Stadium, or did he flash some cash and sneak under the ropes?

The truth of the matter is that at one time, people used to trade in their past country ways and made an effort to learn to live as an "American" and learned to understand what it stood for. This can include paying respect to our past, as well as looking towards our future...They used to leave behind most, if not all of their political stances and tried to co-exist and blend with the Ideals of being American.
Now people move here with dual citizenships, visas, resident alien cards, and take advantage of our Government funded educational system that enable foreign students to qualify for grants and zero percent interest loans. Then themselves or others are allowed to buy businesses with zero percent loans from the Government, and the rest is downhill. If you don't think it's true, just take a ride to downtown L.A., or cruise by MacArthur park someday, and see who bought up what, and who owns things...Nothing says America nowadays like the words "For Sale to anyone with money(including non-citizens)" and "Hip Hop".

Yea, I'm in a bit of a pissy mood, but these things bother me. Yet, I digress, I'm just as upset at Trader Vic's and the BH City Council for allowing this atrocity to happen instead of fighting to keep TVBH, just as much as I want to kick Benny Algerem in the nuts for buying a historically rich and complex hotel like the Hilton, just to plan to renovate it into some Dubai styled Tower/ultra lounge/ultra "sheik" oasis. I wish people would check credentials, BEFORE checking the wallets of potential buyers!
Trader Vic's was dessimated because of an owners lack of understanding of American Culture, Iconic Landmark, and ignorance of a Historically rich location.
It is a definate shame that money is the only thing that counts anymore.

Tom for Governor!

Preach on, Brother Tom!

Seriously, folks, if there's a cool bar, store, club or anything else around you, patronize it & support it in any way you can. If you don't, it will make it that much easier for the owner to take Walgreen's check & ride off into the sunset. I try to hit one of these places every week & weather it's a restaurant, bar, diner, store, bowling alley or drive-in theater, I always leave with a smile on my face & for just a short time, I get to forget all the dismal stuff going on in this world of ours.

On 2010-02-20 12:21, icebaer69 wrote:
ps:

"...
bar210 (pronounced two-one-oh) and
plush, a dual lounge and nightclub with small plates
controlled by Top Cheffer and ex-Bazaar alum, Marcel Vigneron.
..."

i wonder which knucklehead...ehmmm, sorry ... which "marketing genius"
created the names "BAR210" and "PLUSH" ? ? ?
this clown should slap himself in the face 48hours/day ...

Here is the great biography of that 29 years old Marcel Vigneron (I looked for it, as I was scared he could be french) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Vigneron

Good advice, Big Kahuna. You just never know when it is to be your last chance. Looks like my last chance for the Beverly Hills Trader Vic's was March 2003 while I was in LA to visit some friends. The same thing happened to my favorite Key West restaurant, Martha's. Last time I was there, it was two days before it was to shut its doors forever, to be replaced by condos.

For those of us on the Space Coast of Florida, enjoy it before many of your favorite digs are threatened by the looming economic disaster to come with the flyout of the Space Shuttle later this year.

On 2010-02-21 08:49, virani wrote:

On 2010-02-20 12:21, icebaer69 wrote:
ps:

"...
bar210 (pronounced two-one-oh) and
plush, a dual lounge and nightclub with small plates
controlled by Top Cheffer and ex-Bazaar alum, Marcel Vigneron.
..."

i wonder which knucklehead...ehmmm, sorry ... which "marketing genius"
created the names "BAR210" and "PLUSH" ? ? ?
this clown should slap himself in the face 48hours/day ...

Here is the great biography of that 29 years old Marcel Vigneron (I looked for it, as I was scared he could be french) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Vigneron

How fitting that such a lame place has such a lame Chef. Marcel is probably the most despised Chef in Top Chef’s short history and he’s such a social disaster that he now brings a bodyguard to his public appearances. I suppose getting hit in the face with a bottle will do that to you. :lol:

:up: I know that Marcel had nothing to do with the closing of this Trader Vic's but just look at him, somehow it's gotta be his fault. :wink:

So wasteful to close a landmark and then not even follow through on the original plan.

Hopefully the Fairmont San Francisco will take note...

On 2010-02-21 08:30, Big Kahuna wrote:
Preach on, Brother Tom!

Seriously, folks, if there's a cool bar, store, club or anything else around you, patronize it & support it in any way you can. If you don't, it will make it that much easier for the owner to take Walgreen's check & ride off into the sunset.....

Agreed. On that note I hope So CA members here are supporting other mid-century historic gems like Musso & Frank, Clifton's Cafeteria, Taix, Billingsley's, etc. Some of these places are really hurting in this economy and could use the business.

If your attitude is "I don't care about those places because they're not Tiki" how can you expect non-Tikiphiles to be sympathetic towards the places you cherish?

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-02-21 23:42 ]

RAZZ !!!