Jimmy Buffett is a tiki lover

Forgive me if this was posted before. I didn't find it.

I was searching around and found this article in The Chicago Sun Times in which Jimmy Buffett praises the Tonga Room, Trader Vic's, Mai Kai, Don the Beachcomber's, et al. Says the Tonga Room inspired a song on his CD. And goes on to praise Martin Denny.

Oops! link fixed.

[ Edited by: Swanky 2007-07-13 09:54 ]

Martin Denny, I believe, is on one of his CD albums. Something like Live in Hawaii is the name

Is that the right Link. All I saw was the crazy chick knocking the Tiki Gathering?

maybe she's outing the buffet.

Oops! I pasted the wrong thing. Link to Jimmy Buffett article fixed.

I have always been a Buffett fan. He also shares my hometown of Mobile, so I guess that earns him a special place in our hearts here. It seems a lot of tiki folks are not fond of him, but with his carefree style, fun music, and love of exotic things, I don't see how you can not love him! He's good people :)

Amen!

Loving Tiki does not exclude enjoying Buffet. I look at Exotica as grad school for parrotheads.

SBT, the reason for the Buffet bashing in the Tiki community is that exactly "with his carefree style, fun music, and love of exotic things" he historically (albeit unknowingly) contributed to the devolution and gentrification of Tiki style by introducing his generic, hippy-esque Margaritaville world that had no specific cultural identity and was thus more safe, p.c. than Tiki.

It is simply the generation gap between the Mai Tai and the Margarita period, between Lounge music and Rock music, that makes today's Tikiphiles want to differentiate between a real Tiki Temple like the Mai Kai, and a Florida "Tiki Bar" with only palmfronts and beer neons.
Some people think that Bahama Mamas and Sex on The Beachs are so-called "Tiki Drinks", others know and care about the fact that they are NOT. For that, we might get called "Tiki snobs", but we prefer to think of ourselves as "proud keepers of the Tradition".

I love drinking Margaritas, and I believe Mr. Buffet has genuine sympathy for Tiki culture...but to state that sympathy now is easy, where was he in the 1980s when Tiki hit rock bottom?

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-07-13 11:42 ]

What bigbrotiki said.

Tikis, not pink flamingos and parrots.

I am seeing something a bit weirder now though. There was a swing from Polynesia and tiki to south Florida and the Carribean and just sort of "party island." That was happening without Jimmy Buffett. He just sort came to embody it.

Now, there are more and more place calling themselves tiki bars that aren't. Like it's the phrase of the day.

But the weirdest is that I am seeing these faux tiki bars start to have tikis. Real tikis. In Mexico. Tropical places, that have always had an island look, are tacking on tikis to their decor. Nothing else changes. And they have no reasoning. So it makes it even more bizarre when it has "tiki" on it, and "tiki" in it, and yet it is still not a tiki bar. Try to explain that to outsiders.

Bosko even received a nod by the writer. At the bottom of the first page in the "tiki tchotchkes" section. I need more Bosko tchotchkes! :)

Sometimes you gotta wonder if it's "jump on the bandwagon" time.

When I am forced to hear "Margaritaville" blessedly through no choice of my own, I want to scream!

"Cheeseburger in Paradise" makes me want to blow my brains out. I could give a rat's ass if Jimmy Buffet now claims he is a "tiki lover". Have you ever been to one of his eating establishments?

I'd say that too, if I thought I could make a buck more than he is already making.

Jimmy Buffet, if you like him, hooray! The next time I am at the record store looking for Exotica, I really hope I don't see a section with his name on it.

That is almost like saying Charles Manson is one of the Beatles...Helter Skelter, baby!

PTD

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2007-07-13 16:23 ]

That article was written in 2002...I think it was after that that Jimmy announced his "Tiki Tour".

I remember we used to say in high school (back in the day) "the only thing worse than disco was Jimmy Buffet"!

As a matter of fact, if we really wanted to end the war in Iraq, we would pull an "Apocalypse Now" style 24/7 loud as you could play it loop of "Cheeseburger in Paradise". That would bring all terrorists to their knees.

PTD

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2007-07-13 16:38 ]

On 2007-07-13 11:37, bigbrotiki wrote:
SBT, the reason for the Buffet bashing in the Tiki community is that exactly "with his carefree style, fun music, and love of exotic things" he historically (albeit unknowingly) contributed to the devolution and gentrification of Tiki style by introducing his generic, hippy-esque Margaritaville world that had no specific cultural identity and was thus more safe, p.c. than Tiki.

It is simply the generation gap between the Mai Tai and the Margarita period, between Lounge music and Rock music, that makes today's Tikiphiles want to differentiate between a real Tiki Temple like the Mai Kai, and a Florida "Tiki Bar" with only palmfronts and beer neons.
Some people think that Bahama Mamas and Sex on The Beachs are so-called "Tiki Drinks", others know and care about the fact that they are NOT. For that, we might get called "Tiki snobs", but we prefer to think of ourselves as "proud keepers of the Tradition".

I love drinking Margaritas, and I believe Mr. Buffet has genuine sympathy for Tiki culture...but to state that sympathy now is easy, where was he in the 1980s when Tiki hit rock bottom?

Tiki hit rock bottom in the 1980's .... Trader Vics in the Plaza Hotel [NYC] sure hit my Amex pretty hard.. Down south Tiki Gardens ... Tiki wasn't dead in the 80's just some people where !!!!
[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-07-13 11:42 ]

I went to that "Live in Hawaii" concert expressly to see Martin Denny. We sat up in the back grass area of the Waikiki Shell - blanket, picnic dinner, had a wonderful time. Until the concert started, and I was repeatedly stepped on and had drinks spilled on me by drunken people with foam parrots on their head who were partying so hard you couldn't hear the music. It was madness. I left after about half an hour because I knew I was either going to punch someone or get barfed on.

Missed seeing Martin at what may have been his last public performance. But a friend who did stay had a girl fall on him and puke in his lap, so it could have been worse.

damn, lucky bastard! How come girls never fall on me!

According to my husband the album Trout Mask Replica by Capt Beefheart at high volumes is a proven parrothead repellent. He was subjected to Jimmy Boofay daily by his neighbors while living aboard his boat in San Diego. Try it...it really works!

One of my all time favorites.
I was thinking of this album today while listening to Waitiki.

Maybe Waitiki would have the same effect.
I've listened to their new one about 25 times through now and find a new sonic gem each time.
That's why TMR is still fresh as well. They put so much in there that....
....OK I'm rambling.

Anyway. I Like JB: The Guy. And the music is even alright but it's the people like Koolau was talking about that bring about the sheer disdain for "the scene."
If I, as a musician, had a horde of ignorant, drunken yahoos that religiously followed me around, I'd question just what the heck I was doing.

Then again, with more cash than I could spend in 3 lifetimes - maybe I wouldn't.

A Jimmy Buffett thread! Such a guilty pleasure -- kind of like listening to Abba's "Dancing Queen" at high volume (come on, admit it...).

I was interested in Tiki and Exotica before I knew more than 3 Buffett songs. The "scene" as far as I'm concerned is other people with whom I don't concern myself a great deal. Mr. Buffett's body of work though: selectively, of course, I respect and admire it. Selectively -- much of the most well-known material, often cited by Buffett-haters, is:
annoying, or
vulgar, or
cliche'
...or some combination of all three. "Cheeseburger"?"Why don't we get drunk..."? I'm with you all the way: trite, lowbrow, dated, and what's more often with a grating, high-pitched voice.

If you only know a few of such Buffett songs and wonder why any intelligent person would bother with him, and you have a few idle moments to skim song lyrics, you might enjoy the content of some of these songs (below). Will you suddenly begin singing the praises of Jimmy Buffett? Very unlikely. But at least you'll have a sense of a "there" being there.

Practical suggestion: Google: < ________(song title) buffett lyrics >

An idiosyncratic selection of titles, in chronological order, all but maybe one or two written or co-written by Jimmy Buffett:
**
They Don't Dance Like Carmen No More
The Wino and I Know
Stories We Could Tell
A Pirate Looks at Forty
Trying to Reason with Hurricane Season
Tin Cup Chalice
The Captain and the Kid
Cowboy in the Jungle
Sending the Old Man Home
I'm Growing Older But Not Up
Somewhere Over China
When Salome Plays the Drum
If I Could Just Get It On Paper
We Are The People Our Parents Warned Us About
Twelve Volt Man
La Vie Dansante
First Look
Nobody Speaks to the Captain No More
King Of Somewhere Hot
That's What Living is to Me
Carnival World
Take Another Road
Off to See the Lizard
Boomerang Love
Lone Palm
Six String Music
Quietly Making Noise
Barometer Soup
Barefoot Children in the Rain
Remittance Man
Don't Chu-Know
School Boy Heart
Oysters and Pearls
Altered Boy
Someday I Will
Far Side of the World
Tonight I Just Need My Guitar
Coast of Carolina
Window on the World
Coastal Confessions
Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On

Get yourself cooler
Lay yourself low
Coincidental murder
With nothing to show
With the judges constipation
Will go to his head
And his wifes aggravation
Youll soon end up dead

Its the same old story
Same old song and dance, my friend
Its the same old story
Same old song and dance, my friend

Gotcha with the cocaine
They found with your gun
No smooth face laywer
Could get ya undone
Say love aint the same
On the south side of town
You could look
But you aint gonna find it around

Its the same old story
Same old song and dance, my friend
Its the same old story
Same old story
Same old song and dance

Fate comes a-knockin
Doors start lockin
Your old time connection
Change your direction
You aint gonna change it
Cant rearrange it
Cant stand the pain
When its all the same to you, my friend

When youre low down and dirty
From walkin the street
With your old hurdy gurdy
No one to meet
Said love aint the same
On the south side of town
You could look
But you aint gonna find it around

Its the same old story
Same old song and dance, my friend
Its the same old story
Same old story
Same old song and dance

You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
See that girl, watch that scene, dig in the dancing queen
Friday night and the lights are low
Looking out for the place to go
Where they play the right music, getting in the swing
You come in to look for a king
Anybody could be that guy
Night is young and the music’s high
With a bit of rock music, everything is fine
You’re in the mood for a dance
And when you get the chance...
You are the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeen
Dancing queen, feel the beat from the tambourine
You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
See that girl, watch that scene, dig in the dancing queen
You’re a teaser, you turn ’em on
Leave them burning and then you’re gone
Looking out for another, anyone will do
You’re in the mood for a dance
And when you get the chance...
You are the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeen
Dancing queen, feel the beat from the tambourine
You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
See that girl, watch that scene, dig in the dancing queen

Aerosmith, yes!

Abba, maybe!

Jimmy Buffet, hell no!

PTD

It's funny. I have a real opinion on this subject now. I never understood the Buffet threads. I think I even defended him once. I grew up in Wisconsin so I was never exposed to him really. The only thing you would ever hear from him was a very occasional Margaritaville, and not very often. So I had no real opinion either way. I didn't understand what got people so worked up. Big deal, right? Who cares? Then I moved to South Florida and got a job as a bartender at the Hutchingson Island Marriott Resort Lattitudes Tiki Bar. As I'm sure you Floridians can imagine, there is nothing even remotely tiki about it. No tikis of course, but not even any bamboo or thatch or anything. I make about 15 gazillion strawberry daiquiris in a shift and about 6 gazillion of those are virgin. For those of you who want the recipe it's simple: 1.25 oz of Bacardi, big splash of strawberry-flavored liquid, and press the number 1 on the blender. To double the recipe, just press 2 on the blender. Anyway, it's buffet on the radio all day long. Then Bob, an older gentleman who walks around like he owns the place, plays them all live for hours on end. Before I moved here I had no opinion, but now, I swear to God, if Jimmy Buffet walked into my bar I would jump the bar and strangle him until the demon was dead. Every time some one orders a Mai Tai and I'm forced to mix Malibu and fruit juice I curse the name of Jimmy Buffet and try to ignore the pain in my head. Oh, the humanity. :cry:

Nothing gets the TC 'girls' juices going then 2 mention JB....

I blame prohibition for much of this objectionable behavior. The prohibition of (some) drugs, that is, by our government. People want to get high, or whatever euphemism one prefers, and the government outlaws pretty much everything but booze. Those with a social/cultural disinclination to break the law are herded like cattle into the booze line even when, say, marijuana would be the much better option for them. Thus a lot of the mindless and intemperate drinking associated with an act like Buffett, which kind of gives a social sanction to getting zonked (hey, some people need that sanction, and he provides it). Prohibitions, tariffs, etc. cause market distortions whereby lower quality goods, services, even mindsets, are able to attain prominence they wouldn't have attained without such distortions. This might explain JB to those who can't stand him and can't understand why anyone else does either. Hate Buffett? Vote Libertarian! :)

I still like a portion of his body of work, but I sure can understand your feelings finkdaddy, and would feel the same way in that situation I'm sure. I have a feeling if I lived in FL I would have no time for him. Kind of like how Lebowski, the laid-back California dude, hates the Eagles (and gets booted from a taxi cab for complaining about them).

[ Edited by: Thomas 2007-07-15 09:12 ]

[ Edited by: Thomas 2007-07-15 09:13 ]

[ Edited by: Thomas 2007-07-15 09:15 ]

On 2007-07-15 09:11, Thomas wrote:
I blame prohibition for much of this objectionable behavior. The prohibition of (some) drugs, that is, by our government. People want to get high, or whatever euphemism one prefers, and the government outlaws pretty much everything but booze. Those with a social/cultural disinclination to break the law are herded like cattle into the booze line even when, say, marijuana would be the much better option for them. Thus a lot of the mindless and intemperate drinking associated with an act like Buffett, which kind of gives a social sanction to getting zonked (hey, some people need that sanction, and he provides it). Prohibitions, tariffs, etc. cause market distortions whereby lower quality goods, services, even mindsets, are able to attain prominence they wouldn't have attained without such distortions. This might explain JB to those who can't stand him and can't understand why anyone else does either. Hate Buffett? Vote Libertarian! :)

I'm with the caveman on this one.

"...Buffet...historically (albeit unknowingly) contributed to the devolution and gentrification of Tiki style by introducing his generic, hippy-esque Margaritaville world..." -bigbrotiki-

I think it could only be called a contribution if Mr. Buffet had literally lured away the clientele that once kept Golden Age Tiki joints hoppin'. But he was just an artist with the right sound at the right time and was made a big success by people who were most likely the children of the folks who frequented Golden Age places and had annual backyard luaus. And how many Baby Boomer (and beyond) kids wanted to do everything (or even anything) just like their parents did?

The "Paaaaaar-teeeeeee!" minded Buffet fans that head to Florida for a vacation of crappy tropical drinks in awful clubs aren't particular to Buffet. Back when the Grateful Dead were alive there were people who went to their shows just to do the pretend hippy thing (and probably a few drugs). I've noticed among the Rockabilly folks that a helluva lotta them aren't in it so much because they love the music as much as it's the music they love to party to.

On 2007-07-13 12:27, Swanky wrote:
Tikis, not pink flamingos and parrots.

I am seeing something a bit weirder now though. There was a swing from Polynesia and tiki to south Florida and the Carribean and just sort of "party island." That was happening without Jimmy Buffett. He just sort came to embody it.

Now, there are more and more place calling themselves tiki bars that aren't. Like it's the phrase of the day.

But the weirdest is that I am seeing these faux tiki bars start to have tikis. Real tikis. In Mexico. Tropical places, that have always had an island look, are tacking on tikis to their decor. Nothing else changes. And they have no reasoning. So it makes it even more bizarre when it has "tiki" on it, and "tiki" in it, and yet it is still not a tiki bar. Try to explain that to outsiders.

:>:>:>:>:>:>:>:

Could you explain what a 'tiki hut/ bar is?

There was a great big thread nearly on the same topic about a year ago here, and someone mentioned that ol' JB actually hated his hit songs and loathed the thought of playing them forever to drunken yahoos year after year after year.
But he knows where the gold lies and has to keep digging along...

Oh, and Ben, if you could hack out the lyrics to 'smith's "Combination" I 'd be grateful. All these years and I still don't know half of what they're sayin' on that one...

...AKA "Thirstin' Haole the 3rd"

[ Edited by: twitch 2007-07-16 00:06 ]

"...Singer Jimmy Buffett might normally be looking for his lost shaker of salt,
but was detained and later fined for allegedly having more than 100 pills
of what seemed to be Ecstasy.

However, the singer was not arrested for the drugs,
but served a $400 fine and released to continue his vacation.

The “Margaritaville” singer was held after arriving at Toulon-Hyeres International Airport,
and customs officials discovered what was described as “illicit drugs.”

He arrived at the airport on a private plane for a vacation
in the resort town of Saint-Tropez.
Airport customs inspectors have been quoted in the local reports as stating
Buffett (59) had more 100 tabs of Ecstasy with him..."
(From Music News)

[ Edited by: icebaer69 2007-10-03 08:29 ]

(quoted material; originally appeared on margaritaville.com)
**
What happened? A message from Jimmy Buffett...
POSTED OCTOBER 6, 2006

I have tried over the years, to live below the radar when it comes to the "celebrity" thing. I see what I do as just a job, a really fun job that has opened the world, its people and places. However, I seem to still have a way of causing commotion now and then.

In Toulon, we arrived at the private terminal to leave and were moving through security, when my captain informed me that we were being ramp checked by French customs and some plainclothes guys. This is nothing new but what was strange was that the search was being conducted as we were leaving - not as we were arriving. No big deal - I thought. I found my bag and opened it up and they went right for a little pouch which contained my prescription medicines which was sitting on top of my clothes, not the most secretive part of my bag. I don't know about you, but at a few months away from turning sixty, I carry a few prescriptions, including a B vitamin supplement, called Foltx.

Well, that's the one that deflated the party balloon for when they examined them you could see a heart on the pill. "Ecstasy," they said. I have never taken it and couldn't tell you the difference between a hit of ecstasy and Excedrin PM. My vices these days consist of boat drinks, beer, wine and the occasional hot fudge sundae. I hadn't even opened the bottle, because my secretary had made a mistake and had sent the wrong prescription. I don't use Foltx any more.

I knew Foltx was a vitamin supplement not a love drug. I paid the fine, gathered my bags and my friends and as soon as they opened that door, I walked, rather rapidly towards my plane and flew out.

In Toulon, the stern faced authorities couldn't take the truth as the simple answer to a few simple questions, trying to turn vitamins into ecstasy. In these days and times, the truth sadly gets lost in the gossip at an alarming rate.

In the end, I will just chalk it up as being something that will happen if you have an adventurous soul and live a nomad life. I will, as my old hero Mark Twain put it, be "lighting out into the territory". The great old humorist Lord Richard Buckley used to say in one of his routines that humor is the absence of terror and that terror is the absence of humor. It seems there are too many people in the world intent on building fences, not bridges between cultures and fueling misinformation with heightened suspicions and senseless interrogations. I never was, nor do I ever intend to answer to or become one of those people. I will take my cue from Lord Buckley and keep on singing and laughing. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

• Jimmy Buffett
  Over the Atlantic and on the way home

Mmmmmm... tiki culture is more interesting than JB culture. Exotica and retro-lounge music is more interesting than JB music.

That said, I enjoy and perfrorm quite a few JB songs, and generally speaking, JB fans a fun-loving group of people and that's OK by me.

I was mildly surprised to find this thread and read it with interest. As an avid buffet fan, who does attend his shows and a relative newcomer to the T.C. I find it a little strange and frankly a bit snobbish to read through some of these posts. I was at the J.B. Chicago show at Wrigley just after Katrina and witnessed a great show, conducted by a talented showman. Nothing more or less. I am a little apalled by the reaction of some..."I would jump over the bar and strangle him"....
Maybe you have bigger issues than what is "Tiki".
Grow up people. Enjoy your hobby, that's all this is. It isn't any more real than the illusion a parrot head, dead head or Nascar fan conforms to. So you have a couple good books B.O.T. and T.M. to give you cultural identity (I own both). I also own a couple great J.B. books, including a couple great children's stories.
I would like to think that the few of you I single out as "haters" on this thread don't speak for the majority. You have spoiled a bit of the fun I was having with this by rearing your ugly voices and trying to label a Buffet fan as some iconoclast... (look it up and please shut up)

On 2007-10-03 12:01, PeleeTiki wrote:
I was mildly surprised to find this thread and read it with interest. As an avid buffet fan, who does attend his shows and a relative newcomer to the T.C. I find it a little strange and frankly a bit snobbish to read through some of these posts. I was at the J.B. Chicago show at Wrigley just after Katrina and witnessed a great show, conducted by a talented showman. Nothing more or less. I am a little apalled by the reaction of some..."I would jump over the bar and strangle him"....
Maybe you have bigger issues than what is "Tiki".
Grow up people. Enjoy your hobby, that's all this is. It isn't any more real than the illusion a parrot head, dead head or Nascar fan conforms to. So you have a couple good books B.O.T. and T.M. to give you cultural identity (I own both). I also own a couple great J.B. books, including a couple great children's stories.
I would like to think that the few of you I single out as "haters" on this thread don't speak for the majority. You have spoiled a bit of the fun I was having with this by rearing your ugly voices and trying to label a Buffet fan as some iconoclast... (look it up and please shut up)

Iconoclast:
One who attacks and seeks to overthrow traditional or popular ideas or institutions.
One who destroys sacred religious images.

Rock on with your bad self. Believe you me, there are many things I like that other people would find appalling. Why just the other day, our neighbor from across the street came over to bring us some tomatoes from her garden. We asked her to come in and when she saw the living room decked out in tiki and the like, her only expression was "Oh, my". I could see the horror in her eyes.

In my previous posts I never once said I hated Jimmy Buffet. Just don't care for this style of music.

Sometimes when you scan the posts on a thread, you actually have to "read" into what someone is saying.

I actually admire and give him credit for what he has accomplished. I just don't seem understand how you want to compare Jimmy Buffet to cultural identity in a tiki genre. Even Marilyn Manson has fans that could speak volumes of Marilyn Manson's music, lyrics and the effect it has on their outlook on life, but much like Jimmy Buffet, not my cup of tea. For me, it is like comparing a McDonald's hamburger to a Kobe steak.

I have absolutely no doubt that if I ever(god forbid)attended a Jimmy Buffet concert I would be surrounded by hundreds, if not thousands of diehard fans having a hell of a good time. I just don't equate Jimmy Buffet to the tiki lifestyle and don't foresee in the next two decades showing fellow collectors of tiki or Polynesian genre my Jimmy Buffet collection when they come over to see what I have collected and displayed.

moondog426, maybe you will change my when you give me that CD you promised me, but until then, at least in this area, I will remain a "tiki snob" or perhaps a "TIKI SOB". :)

Psycho Tiki D (I know I am and I know I am no Iconoclast and no hater either)!

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2007-10-03 19:09 ]

PeleeTiki!

Welcome to Tiki Central. I couldn't help but notice from your profile that you like to kill wild animals for sport.

I've been interested in taking up the hobby of hunting but I do have a couple of questions.

• How long can I let the animal suffer before I should put it out of its misery?

• Do I really have to eat the meat or can I just dump the carcass somewhere?

Looking forward!

(edited to remove confusing reference to A. Crowley)

[ Edited by: hakalugi 2007-10-03 23:58 ]

while in Las Vegas this August i went to "Jimmy Buffet's Margaritaville" restaurant after spying a sign inside near the stairs saying "tiki bar" with an arrow pointing upwards...I went to check it out and ..alas.. not a single tiki... not in the whole place.. If JB was so fond of tiki im sure he could put some tiki in his own restaurant/bar... i have said it before..JB sucks ass.. he is shit and not a part of the tiki thing...fuck JB.

I just don't get why people associate Jimmy the Buffet with Tiki in the first place. He has less in common with it than Leonard Bernstein. (Actually, most exotica musicians were classically or jazz band trained.)

At the very simplest, Tiki is a retro appreciation. It's all about discovering and enjoying a way of life that flourished half a century ago. 'Tiki Modern' explains it perfectly. Why waste time trying to explain it in more detail? It's obvious.

Modern-era songwriters have nothing to do with classic Tiki; the whole idea is absurd. Why discuss the subject?

Well, my impression of Jimmy Buffet went up a few notches. Anyone who can refer to Lord Richard Buckley in a press release/statement that will likely be read by tens of thousands deserves some credit. What could have been a moment of darkness, he has turned into an opportunity to enlighten the masses about a major beat/hipster figure who deserves more recognition.

http://www.lordbuckley.com/

Pang! Whizzz! Ouch!....no easy Jimmy Buffet converts here. But as Vern's link shows, anybody as creative as he has some good influences, too. And the man created something for himself and others, nobody is denying that here. And I am sure his contribution to the devolution of Tiki culture was not intentional, and he does like Martin Denny's music. But he's his own thing, and Tiki is another, simply put. And that "other" that Tiki is is a very fragile thing, and we feel very protective of it because.

The mention of Leonard Bernstein brings up another interesting bit of Polynesian pop history:
Early in his career, Lenny wrote a little opera entitled "Trouble in Tahiti", which is one of the few examples of a high brow artist actually taking notice of the Poly pop trend in its own day. Of course he used it as a metaphor for bourgeois kitsch culture, New Yorker intellectual he was. :)

Since he's going to do The Crazed Mugs song "Island People," (he just doesn't know it yet), I have nothing bad to say about JB.

I don't know about this one. If true, then neither do carvers nor any other artisans. I know Waitiki certainly bridges a gap. And so does Tiki Diablo.

Maybe by definition classic must mean "old"?

Hanford delineates between classic and modern but the "tiki culture" supports both.
JB is in neither, imo. But a few of the songs we do aren't really either.

And does the exotica culture translate freely into tiki? Ala Esquivel?

Ponderous dude... maybe some of Buzzy's time warping peyote sunset philosophy can answer this one.

Clarify? Easy.

"Modern-era songwriters whose songs obviously haven't been influenced by Exotica & Hawaiiana in the slightest way."

Lots of modern groups do great exotica and surf influenced work, of course.

JB mentioning Martin Denny in a press conference doesn't make his music valid. But ya gotta admit, he's done pretty good for a guy who can't read sheet music!

Fascinating. Clearly able to delineate the fascists from the fanatics in this thread. It takes all kinds I guess. Haka, does your disdain for hunting affect your respect for Tiki heritage? Pretty sure they were hunters/gatherers as well. You don't need to make the animal suffer, you do well enough at that with your inane posts.
The Aussie post is just, well, I have no response. If you can conclude that J.B. has no bearing on the "Tiki" culture than simply choose to disregard it. The fact that this thread is so controversial on that subject clearly indicates a rift exists. I welcome intelligent, original, relevant differences of opinion, of which many, smarter than I have contributed. I don't care if he represents a pure vein of tiki or not. He is simply an entertainer who others less "cultured" than yourselves will readily identify as a representative of the same South Seas escapism that gave rise to the Tiki Craze of the 50's and 60's. Your comparisons are as invalid as trying to compare modern day sports figures to todays in a "who was the best" or "who did it the right way" sort of argument. At the end of the day, who cares? and that precisely is my point, who cares deeply enough to make it hateful or to make personal attacks on others? Someone, perhaps with issues that I don't care to explore. I will find something else to read. Those of you who think a good time is staring at and writing about your mug collections are missing the point. J.B. for all he may not be to Tiki understands what some of you haven't figure out, life is about living it, using it, not collecting it. I have nothing more to say about this.
God Bless

PeleeTiki,

Before you bow out~if you click on the "ABOUT" link in the upper right-hand line at the top of this screen and bring up the page, you will read:

"What Tiki Central Isn't
Everyone here at Tiki Central is passionate about the Polynesian Pop movement. While the exact edges are blurry, we can give you a bit of insight into what Tiki Central is not about:

It’s not about Jimmy Buffett and Parrotheads
It’s not modern plastic, brightly-colored tiki party decorations
It’s not about the Caribbean/Key west design aesthetic
It’s not about Reggae
It’s not about African-art inspired masks/carvings/design
It’s not about Margaritas and tequila-based drinks
It's not about simply anything that has a tiki on it or in it
It is okay to like one or more of the above and be a member of Tiki Central, just remember that it's not our focus. There are plenty of places on the web for that. We encourage new users who may not know what Tiki is to read up, search our forums, and ask questions".

The very first line of what Tiki Central is not about

It’s not about Jimmy Buffett and Parrotheads

That being said, I will go back to staring at my tiki mug collection, which I will continue to write about and probably much to your surprise, actually use.

Have fun eating a "Cheeseburger In Paradise" while you visit "Margaritaville".

PTD

On 2007-10-04 09:24, Psycho Tiki D wrote:
PeleeTiki,

Have fun eating a "Cheeseburger In Paradise" while you visit "Margaritaville".

PTD

All right, I will!

I guess this is what he calls a tiki bar?

[ Edited by: Ojaitimo 2007-10-04 11:09 ]

Christ that's awful.