Best advice for "My First Tiki" posters..From the "Old Guys"

I've noticed more and more "My First Tiki" posts here of late, and as the longest running moderator of the Creating Tiki Forum ,I thought it would be good to centralize the thoughts of the "old guys" here on a thread for the "my first" guys. Old guys, you know who you are...Gecko, Crazy Al, Jungle, Tony, Ben, Octane, Diablo, Lakesurfer, Bosko, Marcus, Hula, Gary, Shawna, Tony, Keigs, Paipo, Vince, G, Tam, Etc., Etc. If I failed to mention an old guy please speak up and know it's my feeble memory at fault. If you ain't an old guy, know that we, the old guys know you ain't an old guy. Not to say you can't one day be an old guy, if you hang around the joint long enough, (and we like you, and you carve half decent :) ).

My tips (as one of the better-looking old guys): Get on Amazon, purchase the Book Of Tiki, and purchase some general books on Oceanic Art to get inspired. This is a must if you're going to call yourself a tiki carver. Get down to the molecular scale of tiki, the ancient Oceanic Art. The embryo from which this all grew. Take it higher and learn the traditions. Polynesia is the wellspring that you want to draw from. Now-there's a million tikis out there stuck in "faceville". You don't want to get stuck there. They're a dime a dozen, twenty guys in every coastal town doing them for a fast buck. A million takes on takes of takes of takes, if you get my drift.Half of them will be in the landfill in 15 years. It's merely the surface of what's out there, and whilst a good way to practice or get the feel of carving, you -really- need to imperatively attempt the most intimidating thing you're willing to tackle right off the bat. Push, Push, Push. You want your carvings to stand out. Plan the most over-the-top thing you can think of, buy your materials, draw it out, and go for it. You know if you can carve, one can clearly see that if you're getting the right results after a couple of trys. Don't be timid, don't stick to faces, learn Oceanic art, and don't hold back on trying anything.

I'm not "old", I just feel old. I have a fairly extensive library of images and will provide them electronically to most anyone who asks. I am also willing to take the time to chat - either by email or phone - with folks who want to talk carving or island history/designs. I won't claim to be an authority on this or that, I just like to help and enjoy watching people create and grow. I am an educated fellow and I have spent a fair amount of time researching the designs that I like to base my carvings off of. The majority of my image collection centers around the Maori arts, but I also have PNG, Hawaiian, and other island art well represented. I have worked with several new carvers here and have enjoyed it very much. If you need something or want to chat, just holla!

-G

http://www.oceanandislandarts.blogspot.com/

[ Edited by: GMAN 2007-09-04 06:26 ]

Hey, I'm NOT an Old Guy!

Well, you know, "Old Guy" around here...that's what I mean. :wink:

"Elders" would be more tribe like.......

On 2007-09-03 23:31, Basement Kahuna wrote:
My tips (as one of the better-looking old guys): Get on Amazon, purchase the Book Of Tiki, and purchase some general books on Oceanic Art to get inspired. This is a must if you're going to call yourself a tiki carver. Get down to the molecular scale of tiki, the ancient Oceanic Art. The embryo from which this all grew. Take it higher and learn the traditions. Polynesia is the wellspring that you want to draw from. Now-there's a million tikis out there stuck in "faceville". You don't want to get stuck there. They're a dime a dozen, twenty guys in every coastal town doing them for a fast buck. A million takes on takes of takes of takes, if you get my drift.Half of them will be in the landfill in 15 years. It's merely the surface of what's out there, and whilst a good way to practice or get the feel of carving, you -really- need to imperatively attempt the most intimidating thing you're willing to tackle right off the bat. Push, Push, Push. You want your carvings to stand out. Plan the most over-the-top thing you can think of, buy your materials, draw it out, and go for it. You know if you can carve, one can clearly see that if you're getting the right results after a couple of trys. Don't be timid, don't stick to faces, learn Oceanic art, and don't hold back on trying anything.

Thanks for the thread BK! Would you mind posting an example of the "face" tikis you are talking about?

I already took your advice - about tackling difficult projects - last year on my 1st tiki. I never posted the pics bc my digital camera broke right around then. But I have some now - with my really crappy older digital camera - that I need to post and have just been procrastinating. I am now on my 2nd tiki; a smaller copy of the 1st.

So I'll try to post the pics tonight....

i like the idea of this thread. new guys, please heed the old guys' advice. bk, gman, ben and the others mentioned definitely know what they're talking about. ben, you are THE old guy (in terms of respect). :D

I guess I have to consider myself an "in-between" guy. Not quite recognized as an "old guy", but definitely beyond a "first tiki" guy.
I suppose my best advice is to have an open mind, be willing to hear and learn from advice, carve as much as possible, and, most importantly, aim high. If you're pretty sure you can pull something off, then make sure you're trying something just beyond that. You may have to spend more time doing it, or even more than one try, but in the end you will be that much happier.

I'm certainly not a tiki guru (aka "old guy") around here, but I've had the good furtune to talk shop with many of them. Inspiration lies in the literature of what tiki is and where it came from. Study the different styles from all over the south pacific. (take Gman up on his very generous offer of pictures if you can't spend some time at the library or searching through tiki central, BOT or tiki modern). Study how the carvers of the 60's and 70's interpereted the "tiki style". Emulate the original designs, but make them your own and try to actually CARVE out the tiki, rather than scratch into the wood. Look at structural design of tikis - how are their body's formed? Where are the arms? why are they like that? how do the feet look? How does the face/body fit together symmetrically? Look for deep areas and shallow areas - see how the knees come out of the wood, that arms may turn into the wood, and the tongue comes out of the mouth. Search tiki central for tool advice (aaronsakua and the mastah benzart have many great posts about tools as do many, many other carvers), from beginning sets to more advanced and ask questions. The orignal carving post did too - but I was said to see that many of the pictures ahve not survived. I love that post.

Don't be afraid to try something that may be out of your percieved level of ability, grasshopper. If you do not try, you will never succeed.

Fink, Polynesiac, you guys have been here for a while..good advice...keep it coming!

Get on Amazon, purchase the Book Of Tiki, and purchase some general books on Oceanic Art to get inspired. This is a must if you're going to call yourself a tiki carver. Get down to the molecular scale of tiki, the ancient Oceanic Art. The embryo from which this all grew. Take it higher and learn the traditions. Polynesia is the wellspring that you want to draw from. Now-there's a million tikis out there stuck in "faceville". You don't want to get stuck there. They're a dime a dozen, twenty guys in every coastal town doing them for a fast buck. A million takes on takes of takes of takes, if you get my drift.Half of them will be in the landfill in 15 years. It's merely the surface of what's out there, and whilst a good way to practice or get the feel of carving, you -really- need to imperatively attempt the most intimidating thing you're willing to tackle right off the bat. Push, Push, Push. You want your carvings to stand out. Plan the most over-the-top thing you can think of, buy your materials, draw it out, and go for it. You know if you can carve, one can clearly see that if you're getting the right results after a couple of trys. Don't be timid, don't stick to faces, learn Oceanic art, and don't hold back on trying anything.

Thanks for the thread BK! Would you mind posting an example of the "face" tikis you are talking about?

Most carvers start out just doing basic tiki heads for their first carves. I’ll use my carvings to demonstrate. I’m still very much a new carver, nowhere near the league of these other guys, but have done enough to show some progression.

Here’s a perfect example of a beginner style tiki that I did. It’s very simple, not very exciting is it? Very generic…

Here’s another ‘faceville’ tiki, but a better one. A bit more traditional, a bit more style to him, and finished off better. But ultimately still a fairly simple design, not something that will stop you in your tracks.

Now, compare my simple tikis to these tikis:

Very traditional maori influenced tiki by Gman (left) and very tiki pop culture tiki by Marcus (right)

Both have full rounded bodies, awesome detail, and an amazing level of finish to them. I know I would much rather prefer one of these last two!

Listen to these guys with the experience! They've done the hard yards, a lot by trial and error. Us new guys dont realise how easy we have it, just jump on here and ask a question and someone will help you out (just look at how many guys have already posted here). Push your boundaries with each new carving. That can be more detail, a deeper carve, a more technical body shape, or even a finer quality of finish. Sometimes I find putting a ‘finished’ tiki to the side for a little helps. Eyeball it for a while, and you’ll see all the bits that you want to improve. Most of all have FUN :D

While you´re at it. Give som more tips on books.
And thanks for the start of an interesting thread.

You don't need to buy a book per say.
You could make your own book.
Do this with pictures you find on the net, Ebay.
Find things that give you ideas for your projects.
Then cut them out and put them in your book.
I'm not saying flat out copy the work. But it will give you some ideas.
You can also put in this book pics of things you have made,sold.
Also put in your book things you want to make. Things that worked.
And things that did not work. You could put the time it takes you to make something.
Or the cost of making something.These things will help you with pricing.
I don't carve really I'm more of a light maker.
But this would work with carving too.
Hope this helps.

Aloha below is part of something I posted a while back to a thread regarding a mug which although really cool was not a Tiki (mug). If you have read it sorry, if not perhaps it may help you, if I posted it in error again sorry.

I feel this applies to the topic at hand, carving, but not the technical aspects of it rather the concepts below are how I approach a new piece and how I view others work. It took me many years to refine my style, to see what made it genuinely different from someone else. Don’t get frustrated or expect to have it down in a few carvings, it is not just about the physical act of carving but the whole process.

“When I first met Sven he really stressed the importance of knowing all the original styles, imbuing the idol with mana and taking off on your own path. It’s the mana part that I think many are missing and it is not a tongue in cheek type phrase. All great carvings have a depth or energy all their own, the Polynesians were the only “primitive” culture that I know of to have this concept. When creating a piece it is not about putting something in, it’s about bringing something out. When you look at a true carving it has a feeling like the thing inside can’t be contained by the material, but when you see a bad copy it just lays flat, it lacks something you can’t put your finger on. All the pieces that should be there are, after all it still looks “nice”. There are very seemingly simple or crude carvings which can convey volumes when you look at them, but the more you look the more complex they become.
Also this is not to suggest slavishly copying an original, those pieces usually look quite stiff or uninspired, no matter how well they are technically. If you understand the idea you are after often it can be done with a few quick lines, there is a vitality that is hard to explain in these pieces.
The ideal is taking a concept to the next level not just making changes just for the sake of change, or because it would look cooler with bigger teeth, three eyes, a mile of tattoos or more whatever.”

My very best alohas,

Bosko

"I'm not saying flat out copy the work. But it will give you some ideas."-

Certainly with Oceanic Art, I say copy it. Go right to the finish point. Make your carving look just like it. That is what they would do (the Polynesians). Making a stick figure painting when you have a master's painting in front of you to look at is silly. And even if you can make tiki that looks like tiki history, you still have the rest of your life to improve with originality, style, mana and just plain out doing yourself.

The example of the above tiki photo. The "what not to do tiki" (sorry Hewey) but here is the true test. If you turn the tiki 90 degrees and it disappears, not good. Turn is another 90 degrees(the back) and it disappears, keep trying. Mana is the living force and nothing that is alive has only one side/ one view. All 360 views should be something new to look at.

[ Edited by: teaKEY 2007-09-05 19:24 ]

This is a great thread. Thanks BK for starting it. Lots of good info from some excellent carvers.

My 2 cents worth: This is an echo of what a few other carvers have already suggested here, but I believe that it is an extremely important consideration, so I am reiterating.

Try something that you think you are incapable of doing. You might surprise yourself.

Nice thread BK. My suggestion for new carvers is "don't be in a hurry." Spend nearly as
much time looking at the wood as digging into it. After a stint of carving just relax and
observe where you are. Squint, change the lighting of your room to see what shadows do to
the carving, move the carving to check different angles, look at your carving from a distance,
stand on your head, etc. After a while something will pop out of the wood to let you know
which direction IT wants you to go. Quick tikis can be fun and exciting, carvings that
ooooze out of the wood slowly are rewarding.
And as others have suggested...study...think about carving when you eat...sleep...dream...
sit on the toilet...put pics everywhere!

-And Conga WAS an old hand at this, just two carvings in! A natural. Carving is not for everybody, but you could tell that carving was in his talent range right away. Some of the most creative, interesting -and traditionally inspired (Heavy New Guinea influence) stuff around. And all of his "left turns" are respectful to the sources from which they were drawn.

On 2007-09-06 14:26, Basement Kahuna wrote:
-And Conga WAS an old hand at this, just two carvings in! A natural.

Some people are just born with it.
I've seen guys with 122+ tikis that still
are not making anything that great.
Bk you do some fine work.
The sun is setting got to go.

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2007-09-07 07:32 ]

Tamas’ 2c..?
Im another who knows deep down that he’s far too handsome & verile to be counted amongst the ‘old boys’*, but thanks for the invite BK. Im also no woodcarver and really only have experience in carving little hard things, which means I can offer no technical/practical help for our beginning woodies – but; carving is carving and learning is learning..
There is some very good advice here & I don’t even know that I can add much other than confirmation of what has been said already.

Workbooks are a great idea. Admittedly I don’t add much to them anymore but still refer to them frequently. No particular order, just a book for of inspiring stuff. Anything that rings your bell – were talking visual arts; any form or detail that you find appealing.

Mine has sculpture from almost all cultures (esp Polynesian obviously), contemporary & ethnic jewellery, ceramics, furnature – through to electro-micrcoscopic images, photos from space, etc, etc, etc.

I would also recommend having another scrapbook full of your own sketches. I tend to draw on whatever is at hand and then manually cut/paste into a book. Better than having a book full of failed doodles/experiments.


(the last is for Robin; from my clay days..)

What else? Yes, PUSH! Push yourself; it all comes down to passion. You are reading the words of someone who has been there, started at the very bottom & looked up with much fear and trepidation. I don’t know if there is such a thing as an X-factor or not; you’ll most likely find that anyone who rises high in their particular field (anything; sport, pop-music, acting, carving Tikis..) , has most likely put in more hours of practice, study, focus, than anyone else. My own education/career (a work in progress, it goes without saying…) didn’t come particularly easily, and I credit my relative success to sheer bloody-minded determination to ‘get good’. It’s a commitment & a compromise; Im never going to be an All Black because I haven’t (had the drive to) put in the hours, ditto a supermodel, mechanic, airline pilot, brain-surgeon. Shit, my father was right… :lol:

And decent tools – “if the job calls for pliers, its no good using tweezers”

Well, that’s all you get for 2c. The book costs NZ$39.95 but TCers are entitled to a 15% discount**

*(but thats my goal)
**(only taking orders at this stage)

Tama :wink:

Brother, your 2c is multiplied by a factor of 1,000,000 to say the least!

Tama, I'm ordering the book, Where do I get it? Do you take pay pal?

As a relative newcomer, and one of the younger generation, and one who has recently embarked on this carving thing, I will humbly add to this thread.

If you haven't started carving yet and you are interested, just start. Grab a piece of wood and whatever carving tool you have around and get to it. You will be amazed what you can accomplish with some cheap tools and a bit of patience. Add good tools as you grow and the bill will be a lot easier to swallow as good tools are not cheap. Some of the purists might argue, but a $3 chisel from Walmart will remove more wood than a $35 gouge from Stubi that you won't purchase because it is too expensive.

I went a totally different route starting to carve than most do. I went backwards. Most start with a knife or some chisels and move up. My first carving "tool" was a chainsaw with a 20inch bar, not exactly the best thing to use but with that I was able to hack out some interesting things. Then I bought some cheap chisels to see if I liked them then progressed into the higher quality tools. You won't appreciate a good tool unless you've tried one that isn't. I used a 20inch bar to carve this. It is about 3.5 inches in diameter. I wouldn't choose that saw to do the same carving again.

Some above have mentioned attempting to carve something that you think is above your ability and they speak wisdom. You won't learn unless you push yourself. After I do this I look back at my earlier items and say "now that I've done this, I could have done that better" It is amazing what you learn along the way.

Like others I have a huge inventory of downloaded pictures from the web, TC, and tons of books on Oceanic Art. These are very valuable. To get started these are a few of tops, contact me for more: The Book of Tiki (a must)- -- Arts of the South Seas by Ralph Linton ( I feel this book has some of the best examples and highest quality artifacts)---- and Oceanic Art by Meyer.

To learn there is nothing better than trying to copy something exactly. Trying to figure out how they did it can really help you. As you carve, study the reference and go slow and think out the cuts before you wildly chop away. I learned a tremendous amount this way. But, when you make a mistake, all is not lost, just figure out a way to disguise it (was I not supposed to reveal this secret?) As you learn get away from direct copies and use your reference as a base and add your own thing. Your own style will show through your carvings-for example look at Benzart and Congatiki's, both are very recognizable styles.

I've poured over the threads of the super "old guys" BK, Gecko, Lake Surfer, Benzart , etc (many, many others) for inspiration and learned a lot. I also criticize my own work against theirs and that kept me pushing long past the point where I would have normally stopped. As a consequence I learned and my own standards improved (I still have a long long way to go)

Remember, every carving seems to go through a stage that looks like it is not going where you want it to go, just keep working on it and it will eventually "pop" and you will be back on track. Don't give up--For a really good example of this check out Tikifreak1's thread--he ended up with a really nice tiki in the end.

I learned most of what I know the hard way, I hadn't seen anybody carve anything until Coontiki II just recently. I have tossed more than my share of carvings into the fire place. Experience is a good teacher.

I've asked questions from several carvers here and received very good advice. Gman has generously offered his time, take him up on it, he is very good and can help a lot. If you have questions please feel free to PM, I'll try to offer up what little I do know. I can certainly tell you a lot of ways not to do something.

By the way, how do I get Tama's book?

My $.02

• JP

[ Edited by: JohnnyP 2007-09-07 07:23 ]

[ Edited by: JohnnyP 2007-09-07 07:28 ]

Hey, What about us Middle aged guys? We don't get any play?

"To young to be old, and to old to be new"

On 2007-09-07 07:20, JohnnyP wrote:

Some of the purists might argue, but a $3 chisel from Walmart will remove more wood than a $35 gouge from Stubi that you won't purchase because it is too expensive.

By the way, how do I get Tama's book?

True. I also agree that you wont appreciate the benefits of a good tool unless youve cut your teeth with crappy ones - ditto material quality/cost too..

PS: I hope you realise there is no book.. :lol:

PPS: but here are a few more I would recommend to our newbies:

-No Sort of Iron - Culture of Cook's Polynesians. edited by Roger Duff
Great book with general coverage of main Polynesian Island Groups. Heaps of pics of tools, weapons, art..

-The Decorative Arts of the New Zealand Maori by Terrence Barrow.
An oldie but a goodie. Similar depth and coverage to above but specific to NZ Maori.

-Mana Pounamu/NZ Jade by Russell Beck (for the apprentice Jadi)
This is the bible of NZ pounamu & will give you the best insight into 'my' world, short of coming over here and seeing for yourself. Saves a lot of walking once you get here too, and includes much that is no longer seen...

-Kahui Whetu. Contemporary Maori Art; a carvers perspective.
Not just for the newbies.. Featuring the work of Roi Toia & Todd Couper. 100% blow-your-pants-off, face-melting brilliance. These guys are at the cutting edge of contemporary woodcarving. Insanely well designed, executed & finished. Contemp but fully versed in tradition. If youre thinking of aiming high; these are the guys you want to be...

Tama :)

On 2007-09-07 18:04, Tamapoutini wrote:

On 2007-09-07 07:20, JohnnyP wrote:

Some of the purists might argue, but a $3 chisel from Walmart will remove more wood than a $35 gouge from Stubi that you won't purchase because it is too expensive.

By the way, how do I get Tama's book?

True. I also agree that you wont appreciate the benefits of a good tool unless youve cut your teeth with crappy ones - ditto material quality/cost too..

I meant for somebody just starting out! I whole heartedly agree good tools are essential and will improve the quality!!

Here is my .02 on carving tiki. Tiki Central is a starting off point for a lot of carvers as of lately.

Creating Tiki on Tiki Central is not a tiki ART reference book, as most people will tell you. It does have some very good threads on Tools,Books,Technique, and Personal carvings.

You want a Tiki Art Reference Book Try any one of these. and there are more out there, lots more.

Tiki does not mean face on log, and I know we all have to start somewhere. My fist few were some nasty looking figures on firewood. Keep going, keep carving you will get better. Try different mediums, different Woods, Stone, Bone, plaster, concrete...

Most of all have fun and take your time it's not a race to see who can do the most per hour. Very few can make a living on carving Tikis. Look at the art of people who do this as a full time job and compare it to the art of others. for some of us It's not all about carving a face on a log and calling it a "TIKI". I for one can't get enough of Maori art. Most of my books are on the Maori. The carvings these guys were doing with primitave tools blows my mind. very few can even copy the Masters of old with modern tools.

I'm not claiming to be one of the Old Guys around here, I started carving about the time on my start date here. A little over 3 years ago. and I know I have tons to learn, that's the fun part for me. We never stop learning.

BK and long time TCers, I hope you don't mind me jumping in for a go at this? I don't wish to overstep a boundary as I am relatively new to wood carving, but I have been creating art since I was a kid, and have attained a few things that might be of some benefit to other new carvers/artists.

In no real order...

Ask questions no matter how silly they may seem....I had a wise old teacher once tell me that "without asking questions in art, and in all other aspects of life, the topic of our children and their future is a moot point."

Yes, researching past art is very important, but to really learn what it is to "see" that art is more. Focus...what is it that moves you about that work. Copy verbatim if you need to in the beginning, or if this is what you choose to do. Learn to analyze....maybe the only thing you see on a past work is a nose, or a body position that intrigues you? If so, borrow it if you need to. Be true to who you are as an artist....follow your own bliss. Great things will happen!

Your tools are a huge part of your path. Learn them. A tool is a tool....fear no tool. Use everything at your disposal to achieve your goal. Know there is pretty much a fix for anything. Constantly try new tools no matter what level carver you are. You are in control of the tool, it is not in control of you. Safety! - fingers are difficult, and expensive to sew back on.

Keep pushing your skill level as others here have stated...strive to be better. Years from now, when your skills have been refined, and you are feeling comfortable within your medium...be humble. You will always be able to find a carver that is better than you...Search them out. Learn from them. There is no top to this ladder you have chosen to climb.

Be open to change. All past art, from primitive oceanic, to modern minimal painting has had progression defined within it's history. Art, like everything else, is constantly evolving. If we had grown in a world void of progressive art today, we would have no clue as to where we came from.

Hang with other artists...this will be a major motivating tool and will keep you in the loop.

Realize that you have a better chance of becoming the next Mick Jagger than you do of becoming wealthy in the fine arts....I have met some world class talent in my life's travels....for the "major" most part, they all still eat Hamburger Helper and Top Ramen Noodles.

On 2007-09-09 09:45, tikimecula wrote:
Tiki does not mean face on log
Amen, brother. That point can't be made enough to the first-time tiki carver. And a fact is, Creating Tiki needs to get a lot more critical. It keeps the quality far higher and the envelope far more pushed than pouring sugar on nearly every piece of work that shows up here no matter how great or utterly lousy. And Mec, you are an "old guy, too". You've got it in you. You were carving at the pro level nearly at the get-go. And you were decorating war clubs better than me right out of the gate, man!

:drink:

-G

[ Edited by: GMAN 2007-09-09 18:45 ]

I really appreciate having the benefit of your experience, knowledge and wisdom. Great post.

Thanks, Mrs Hoptiki

great thread. good advice. can't wait to try to execute some of it on a piece of wood sometime.

On 2007-09-09 09:45, tikimecula wrote:

You want a Tiki Art Reference Book Try any one of these. and there are more out there, lots more.

tikimecula, what a great shelf of references you have there! You must have scoured long and hard over the years to come up with all those treasures. i will try to look up some of those books soon.

Thanks Harro, It took a while to find some of them. Most are available at Amazon. I also use Alibris.com.

I have been getting a lot of feedback from that pic, mostly asking questions on certain books and what i think of them. I would say if you have the BOT, the next book should be Oceanic Art, by Meyer, (the big one on the far left) you can usually find it for around $20. after that try Pacific Encounters, By Hooper. That is an absolutely Great book, Tons of color pics of art from all over the islands, It's around $30.

..worthy of a bump..

For all the carvers out there here is a link I have posted in the past4 that most of you probably have not seen. Chris Pye, a Classically trained wood carver has written several Free manuals on wood carving and is offering them Free to all who are interested. They are free to print, share and use however you would like , just use them and learn. Have Fun
http://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com/slipstones/pdfs.html

Over 7 years ago, but this is all still true... Deserves a bump.