Can anyone tell me something about this Tiki?

Hi, I posted this on the wrong forum...sorry. Hopefully someone out there will be able to help me with some information on this guy.

This guys hanging in a friends garage. Here's what he knows about it. His great grandmother was Chamarro, a native of Guam. His uncle got it from his grandmother who had emigrated to the U.S. He knows that his uncle had it for a long time. Then it was passed on to him.
He doesn't know if it came from Guam, or if it was acquired in the U.S. All he knows is that it's been around in the family awhile....since he was a kid...he's now in his mid-fifties. Does anyone know anthing about this guy?

He thinks it's Koa, but is not sure. I would love to give him some more info on this. Thanks in advance for
information you might have.

Robin

[ Edited by: Robin 2007-09-06 10:19 ]

real nice piece, now i'm curious. i'll be checking back to see.

The Tropical Bistro has one like it.
It came from the Kahiki in Columbus.
I will get a picture and then we can see.
From what I remember they are a match.

hi robin,

our local sources suggest the origin of this type of mask is mexico.

ref:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=16404&forum=5

and

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=20727&forum=5

¡arriba!

Mr Sapp did say they went to Mexico to get
stuff for the Kahiki.

On 2007-09-07 07:45, tikiskip wrote:
Mr Sapp did say they went to Mexico to get
stuff for the Kahiki.

Well I'll be darned! Thanks so much for your information. I'm not sure this is what my friend would like to hear. He likes thinking it's connected to his lineage somehow. I'll ask him if he has any links to Ohio, and or Mexico.

tikispip,if you get a chance, and find a picture of the similar piece you mentioned, could you post it please? I could pass it along to him. He loves this guy, and filling in some gaps in the real story would be nice for him.

Thanks for those links, you guys are great.

R.

Frankly, Robin, I don't see much in common between your Tiki and those pictured in the links to Mexico. Your Tiki appears to be a much better carving and the wood really does look like high quality koa. I think this need to be checked out further. Good luck . . . I'll keep watching!

i have a version of that mask which is slightly larger and different in style, closer to robin's. if it is not from mexico i would be glad to know as well.

however without any other graphic evidence of alternate origins i'm gonna stick with mexico for now, based on the pattern of the eyes and the mouth.

i'll try to post pix of the one described above soon.

mai masq

compare:

i love lea houlihan's lovely hula hands:

[ Edited by: Johnny Dollar 2007-09-08 09:39 ]

Despite the disappointment in the "Guamanian" mask being Mexican made I think it is a killer mask and have unsuccessfully bid on some similar ones on ebay. It is indeed of a higher quality than many masks from Mexico and the style is somewhat different. I have a theory that although the carvers were the same carvers as those of the diablo masks, that these masks WERE inspired by tiki from the S. Pac. just as American Pop tiki souvenirs were.

Just to add another nail in the coffin of the idea that this is a legitimate traditional islander mask, I have studied traditional S. Pacific and other non-Western Indigenous material cultures fairly extensively and can assure you that there is NO tradition of mask making in any Polynesian or Micronesian cultural group ( excluding one island in Micronesia). Melanesian yes, Indonesian yes. Guam has NO mask making tradition. All "tiki" masks are therefore "pop" tiki and not traditional forms.

PS
To clarify: Guam is considered a part of the Micronesian cultural group.

ST

To drown sorrow, where should one jump first and best? "Certainly not water. Water rusts you." -Frank Sinatra

[ Edited by: Sneakytiki 2007-09-09 22:33 ]

Here's a link to a contemporary diablo mask, notice the carving style and overall similarity..
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hand-carved-mexican-wood-mask-tribal_W0QQitemZ290157968453QQihZ019QQcategoryZ35806QQcmdZViewItem

Thank you all for posting this information. I don't think he'll be really disappointed as he does love this mask. I'll see if I can get him to confirm any stamping or anything. I don't think he's really looked for anything on it, as it already had a story. I'll let you know what he says. Thanks again for taking the time to help with this investigation.

Well, finally heard from my friend. He spoke with his mother, and she remembers it coming from Guatemala about forty or so years ago when her sister made a trip there. She says it's a rain god, but doesn't remember the name.

Thanks for all the input. Mystery solved.

Robin

On 2007-09-24 09:16, Robin wrote:
He spoke with his mother, and she remembers it coming from Guatemala about forty or so years ago when her sister made a trip there. She says it's a rain god, but doesn't remember the name.
Mystery solved.

[ Edited by: filslash 2008-09-20 15:50 ]

I usually find one or two of these masks each year garage-saling, so I'm fairly convinced that they were tourist-goods from the 1960s & 1970s. They're easy to spot because of the slots cut above the eyes. Often the head has a curve to it. One fellow said that he bought his in Korea, but I doubt that now, because more often I hear they're from Central America (Guatemala, Mexico, etc.)

Here are the pictures of the masks I thought looked like
the one you pictured.
It was from the Kahiki.
Sorry it took so long.

Hey thanks tikiskip for posting those. Nice. That bottom one sure bears some resemblance to the one my friend has...sameish smile and eyes. These are probably from Mexico from your earlier post. At least we know for sure my friends mask is not from Guam! Thanks again for the pics.

R.

On 2007-09-24 13:09, filslash wrote:
Aloha,

On 2007-09-24 09:16, Robin wrote:
He spoke with his mother, and she remembers it coming from Guatemala about forty or so years ago when her sister made a trip there. She says it's a rain god, but doesn't remember the name.
Mystery solved.

Maybe, maybe not. It really doesn't resemble the Guatamalan rain god at Tikal.

It doesn't really look like the Maya rain god Chaak.

Head of a Rain God, 10th–11th century
Mexico; Maya-Toltec.

Tlaloc the Inca Rain god.

Another Taloc, this from the Olmec period.

Anyhow fun stuff none the less.

Hey fils the Incan god wouldn't be at all related to the Olmec god, the Incan (S.America) empire was removed by vast distances from the Mexican (Mayan, Aztec, Olmec, etc..) cultures.

The mask making tradition in Southern Mexico and Guatemala approximates the territory of the former Mayan empire and the mask in question looks touristy and conceivably could have been influenced by polypop.