Found Witco Bar

I was the one to turn mikenrich onto this site
we both work for the city of canton maybe this server is causing the confusion??
I don't know him personally but I am trying to dig up what info I can for him as he said this almost slipped out of his hands and would have been scrap sitting outside.

I have not been to see it in person yet but I will soon and take more pics
Rich has told me that the lady he got it from says she is positive it did not come from Bali Hai, she said it was in a private home in Canton. With all the Hoovers, Timkens and Diebolds I am sure someone rich had a tiki room back then

I will be at the library for research on Bali Hai and I talked with Emils son and maybe he might have menus and photos

you can contact me at oldstuff24@aol if needed

no one is pulling the wool over on anyone here , sorry for any confusion

hey I am an old man trying to save a little piece of the past so bear with me if I don't get the best pictures or the most accurate stuff as I am not as speedy as my younger days , I am trying to keep up

[ Edited by: Bali O Hai O 2010-05-06 12:01 ]

Very cool, Bali O-hi-o, now Emil's son should have something to share. Don't let this frantic website here stress you out, take your time, and just post as more info pops up. Thanks for clarifying things further, and thanks, Tipsy, for keeping it down, my Mahalos to all. :)

If I may, I'd just suggest we create a topic over in "Locating" for info about the former Bali Hai in Massillon. That'd be a great place to collect more images (hopefully real ones!).

Beyond that, it would seem that this topic has run from "your bar set was indeed from the restaurant", to "positive it did not come from Bali Hai". The latter seems much more likely, given that it's not all beat up after so many years of people like Jackie Gleason sitting with it. Aside from that, it's still interesting to hear how rare the Tahiti bar is, and fun to see the other examples that have been posted.

-Randy

Bali O Hai O,

That is cool! The torches out photo from the gas shortage era and there was a Tiki on the sign. Thanks for the research, look forward to seeing more.

DC

What a great old sign, thanks for the pictures...
I lighted up the tiki a little to see the face...

DC and Bali Ohio, I think Randy has a good point, can't we start a new Bali Hai thread in Locating Tiki, before Bali Ohio posts more pics here? People will find it better when it is not under "Found Witco Bar". DC, do you have the time to make a start with your matchbooks?

Got a phone call tonight from another former worker and they told me the Jackie Gleason picture I referred to was not Emil and Jackie but rather Emil and Frank Fontaine who was Jackie's sidekick on his first TV show, so the Tahiti bar photo has been debunked and proves I am dumb when it comes to pop culture.

Beachbumz that was cool how ever you did that blow up and ligtened up the face. That thing is probably hanging in someones basement someplace.

Thank you DustyCajun for the library tip it proved worthy.

[ Edited by: Bali O Hai O 2010-05-06 20:58 ]

The Tiki Gods are talking to me, (am I crazy?)

I go to ebay tonight looking for a Moai statue for my garden and I found this cool AKU that reminded me of the ones at Bali Hai

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fred-Aku-Easter-Island-Tiki-Statue-Moai-/110389564185?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19b3bb1319

I decided to order one and guess where the guy who sells them is from? .... Canton, Ohio and just a mile from my house!

WEIRD very Weird

Has anyone seen these before? are they mass produced or does this guy make them? am I getting a deal, well at least I save on shipping.

[ Edited by: Bali O Hai O 2010-05-06 21:33 ]

"WEIRD very Weird" - YA THINK?

"Pets are welcome,Children 'MUST' be on leash" TD

[ Edited by: TIKI DAVID 2010-05-11 13:53 ]

seriously, tiki david....do we need this type of attitude in this thread ?

as for the moai guy - i have bought these before. they are actually really awesome products and well worth the money....the guy that sells them seems like a real nice guy too....i recommend them. made of durable plastic. just fill them with sand to add weight and place them outdoors....

as for the tiki on the sign...reminds me of the kon-tiki tiki face from thor heyerdahl's sail on his raft....

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2010-05-07 04:02 ]

[ Edited by: TIKI DAVID 2010-05-11 13:52 ]

Not wasting my post

[ Edited by: Bali O Hai O 2010-05-07 15:59 ]

...this is the one thing I hate about Tiki Central...all the stupid B.S.!
Can we just focus on collecting Tiki so we can escape reality when we log in?
That's all I ask...

[ Edited by: tikinomad 2010-05-07 10:41 ]

Well, like any community, we have our "characters", and some are a little gruff. I commend you in continuing here with undeterred enthusiasm, Bali Ohio, and thank you for starting a separate Bali Hai thread in Locating Tiki. I am looking forward to hearing more about this Witco bar here. Don't worry about the Jackie Gleason mix-up, I get that a lot in my research that folks who are from the Tiki lounge generation do not remember all the details. Considering what the seller of that bar stated in your ealier post, it might even be that it was not that specific style of Witco bar that was at the Bali Hai, just A Witco bar, they made many different styles. You are just starting to get into this, and as your experience and knowledge with Tiki archeology increases, your senses will sharpen. You definitely caught the bug, and you definitely have a knack for it. :)

When you say the OP and Bali O Hai O are posting from the same computer, don't you really mean they're posting from the same IP address?

That they're posting from the same IP address does NOT necessarily imply that they're posting from the same computer. It's not unusual for people accessing the internet through the same company, organization, or service provider to share an IP address.

Bali O Hai O mentioned that they both work for the city. That would explain it.

On 2010-05-07 10:24, cloudmonkey wrote:
When you say the OP and Bali O Hai O are posting from the same computer, don't you really mean they're posting from the same IP address?

That they're posting from the same IP address does NOT necessarily imply that they're posting from the same computer. It's not unusual for people accessing the internet through the same company, organization, or service provider to share an IP address.

Bali O Hai O mentioned that they both work for the city. That would explain it.

Yes, you're right, that could very well explain it.

But you have to agree that it was a bit odd.

To recap for those not following:

Mikenrich joined up here stating that the Witco, which he might sell, could be from the Bali Hai. A day later Bali O Hai O joins TC stating that the Witco was indeed from the Bali Hai.

When the shared i.p. was brought up and questioned, Bali O Hai O stated that he and Mikenrich both work for the city of Canton thus the same i.p. address. He also stated that it was he that told Mikenrich about Tiki Central but does not know him personally.

It's not unusual for people to join up here in the hopes of selling something and then have an alter identity join up in an attempt to jack up the perceived value. It's happened before and the shared i.p. was a red flag.

In anycase, Bali O Hai O has since recanted the claim that the Witco is from the Bali Hai and Mikenrich is apparently not selling it.

Nevertheless, I thank Bali O Hai O for all of the info and eye-candy he has brought here to TC and if Mikenrich decides to sell his find, I'm sure someone will be happy to buy it no matter where it came from.

OK.. So.... Back to the original subject, This wonderful bar

Just wondering, are you going to keep this great old bar??

Cool Unga Bunga, but that photoshop job might make Freaky David er, I mean Tiki David think there really is a sale! LOL

Let's see this bar in situ with the new owner enjoying a Mai Tai.
This piece really demands it's own tiki lounge to live in.

On 2010-05-04 02:48, Bali O Hai O wrote:
...

Bali O Hai O. Can you provide a link to the website where this image came from?

I have the guys email address who sent it to me. I had posted originally on Craigslist that I was looking for Bali Hai stuff and he sent me the photo and that nap picture from a story he had on WebTV's Talkcity and wanted to know if I wanted to buy tiki stuff from him. I said no and never heard back. This was years ago. His forum name was at http://profile.talkcity.com/Tiki-Tom-Tom

PM me for his email.

I will soon have some photos of the stools, they did come with it but the foam is breaking down in them. I need to get them fixed up.

On 2010-05-10 21:14, Bali O Hai O wrote:
I have the guys email address who sent it to me. I had posted originally on Craigslist that I was looking for Bali Hai stuff and he sent me the photo and that nap picture from a story he had on WebTV's Talkcity and wanted to know if I wanted to buy tiki stuff from him. I said no and never heard back. This was years ago. His forum name was at http://profile.talkcity.com/Tiki-Tom-Tom

PM me for his email.

Someone on Craigslist sent you that photo?... I thought earlier you said you found it on a Canton rep website... my bad. Nevertheless, it is a fake.

Here's the original:
From http://blog.humuhumu.com/2006/09/11/nothing-says-fancy-like-a-moist-towelette

Fake:

Hak, Columbo would be proud. My first thought was that the place just appropriated the Aku Aku design. Happened all the time. But the bottom edge of that item matches up nearly perfect in both images. Don't know what it shows or proves, but I think you're right about it being a fake.

On 2010-05-11 08:51, Hakalugi wrote:
Here's the original:
From http://blog.humuhumu.com/2006/09/11/nothing-says-fancy-like-a-moist-towelette

Fake:

/quote]

On 2010-05-11 09:49, GatorRob wrote:
My first thought was that the place just appropriated the Aku Aku design. Happened all the time.

You mean like this?:

On 2010-05-04 12:20, bigbrotiki wrote:
I just can't turn off my Tiki photographic memory button in my brain, so here is another likeness:

...and from my Sound of Tiki CD:

NOT an exact "copy of" though, but definitely "inspired by"!

That is too strange: First the doctored exterior, now the fake "moist towelette". What it shows is that Tiki-Tom-Tom was prone to play around with photoshop and Tiki ephemera -if for his personal gain, or just because he WANTED some Bali Hai stuff so bad, we might never know.

Also, in case anyone's wondering where those "huge easter island statues" in front of the Bali Hai came from, they came straight from Easter Island!

One of the most famous, recognizable, and photographed moai statues (formerly?) on Easter Island...

-Randy

Nice work Detectives Hakalugi and Aquarj I'm really enjoying this episode of TCSI.

[ Edited by: TIKI DAVID 2010-05-11 17:26 ]

On 2010-05-11 15:43, TIKI DAVID wrote:

On 2010-05-05 12:18, TIKI DAVID wrote:
tread very carefully people.

So you actually knew something but chose not to say anything?

Or you suspected something but maybe you didn't have the time to compose more than a cryptic warning? That's possible. I'm busy myself these days.

Nonetheless...

[AT THIS POINT THE MESSAGE IS BEING EDITED, SO IF THERE'S AN UNEDITED MESSAGE BELOW FROM TIKI DAVID IT IS SOMEWHAT JUSTIFIED IF NOT ALL THAT ORIGINAL]

You could have shared what information you knew about this bar or person or at least suggested where Scooby and the Gang might want to go looking. Or you could have said nothing at all. (Understandably a bit difficult to do in light of you being previously taunted in this thread for no reason other than your skill at scoring finds and your physical proximity to this bar.)

[END OF EDIT]

To everyone who actually did some sleuthing and pondering...

This was very interesting to follow. I like how Tiki Centralites once again used their knowledge to address a mystery or question. It's happened many times on Tiki Central and I'm sure it'll happen again...Especially now that everyone knows there are Brownie Points to be earned. [EDIT: The brownie points is in reference to deleted lines above. There are no actual brownie points. Yet.]

woofmutt

[ Edited by: woofmutt 2010-05-11 17:13 ]

deleted

[ Edited by: MikenRich 2010-05-11 17:13 ]

Woofter, now now, no reason to get so excited! Cause:

A.) David is ALWAYS cryptic

B.) Half of this discovery had been established on page 1

C.) nothing has been proven other than that Bali Ohio has gotten his material from a photoshop happy fellow who has disappeared....

Hmmm....

[ Edited by: TIKI DAVID 2010-05-11 17:25 ]

OK, I'm gonna do something I generally dislike...Delete a post. And here's why:

*"ha ha ha ha! now that was a good one woofmutt. i never laffed so hard, old friki david is goin ta get mad at cha and he will probably put a friki tiki curse on you!

i am so glad that this Witco bar that i beat friki david out of will never end up in his hands. it must really bother him. i'm glad i can bring him so much entertainment, must be lonley in his mothers basement!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'd hate to tell him the offers i have got way higher than his, keep dreamin bud!"* -MikenRich-

Et Cetera

Look, MikenRich...

Earlier in this thread an esteemed member did a little bit of this taunting dancing about nonsense (which was retracted) but that's not the general tone of Tiki Central as you can clearly see from the bulk of the posts on this thread.

TIKI DAVID is actually a seemingly fairly well liked (at least I don't have any issues with him and don't hear people bitching about him) member of this community. So my comment above (which I might also edit) wasn't because he lost out on this precious piece of firewood but because he chose to do the "I told you so" (not his actual words) thing.

You, on the other hand, are just acting like an ass.

You came here and got what you wanted: Info (or publicity) so why not just be gracious, thank all the good people with cracker jack memories and eagle eyes and continue on with your home Tiki bar building or auction?

woofmutt

[ Edited by: woofmutt 2010-05-11 17:03 ]

I didn't come here to sell it!

[ Edited by: MikenRich 2010-05-11 17:34 ]

On 2010-05-11 17:13, MikenRich wrote:
I didn't come here to sell it!

[ Edited by: MikenRich 2010-05-11 17:34 ]

"Posted: 8 days ago; 12:26 pm

Found this Witco Tiki Bar Set in Massillon Ohio. Was wondering if any members had any info on value or vintage?

Should I sell or keep it? "

"So you actually knew something but chose not to say anything? "
No, as I have stated in here(TC) many times I am delightfully computer 'stupid'.
I did not know enough to 'call it' but something STANK from the beginning in this thread. And I had hoped someone 'comp savvy' would pick up on it.
With so many heads in the clouds on this,'GREAT WITCO FIND'. Some like to make me the 'BAD GUY' because I was holding my nose.
WOOF, you can still keep your brownie points,and I will throw in
a whole bunch of 'Style Points'

What a silly little bitch fight this thread became all because it was derailed from the original thread topic.

Ha! This thread started weird and it's still weird.

On 2010-05-03 16:09, MikenRich wrote:
Massillon, Ohio was home to the famous Bali Hai restaurant and I thought this might be from there, but I think this is older than that... Bali Hai opened in the late 1960's.

Sounds reasonable! And then...

On 2010-05-04 03:08, Bali O Hai O wrote:
Your bar set was indeed from the restaurant and was bought through Cheton furniture in Canton. Emil the owner had the set in the village room, our smallest room, later he had it at his home then sold it to a friend who must have later sold it to you. it was very expensive at that time and I only wished then I had enough to buy it.

Ah yes, very expensive even back then! It must be very valuable today! Too bad MikenRich isn't thinking of selling to TC collectors. But wait...

On 2010-05-06 10:49, MikenRich wrote:
Selling it is not out of the question, but I am kind of enjoying this. I don't want to cause any trouble here, just learning abut Tiki Culture is cool.

Hope springs anew!

On 2010-05-06 11:39, Bali O Hai O wrote:
Rich has told me that the lady he got it from says she is positive it did not come from Bali Hai, she said it was in a private home in Canton.

Eh? Come again? Was this the same guy that said "I thought this might be from there"? Eyebrows are being raised! And then...

On 2010-05-11 16:32, MikenRich wrote:
i'd hate to tell him the offers i have got way higher than his [$5000], keep dreamin bud!

Wowee! Offers way higher than $5000! Cha-ching!

For the record, I'm not trying to make an attack out of this. Just giving what seems to me like a natural reaction to things that were publicly posted on this thread. Based on Bali O Hai O's story, I'd think he'd be interested to know if the images he posted are fakes. That's hardly an attack on him (unless he faked them himself, which he says he didn't). And based on Mikenrich's story, he shouldn't have any reason to get upset at all, because he's not planning to sell anyway. What's so bad about Tiki David (or anyone) suggesting that some of this "provenance" from the Bali Hai seems questionable? That certainly wouldn't affect Mikenrich one bit if he's not trying to boost any implied value. Plus he's already been quoted as questioning that provenance himself.

But anyway, somehow this thread is strangely entertaining.

-Randy

I am very sorry if I caused any of this ruckus.

MITCH

On 2010-05-11 18:11, aquarj wrote:
But anyway, somehow this thread is strangely entertaining.

Indeed, an interesting exercise in web (mis)communication -which to me often is as telling about the psychology of the reader, or "interpreter" of a message than it is about the writer of it. I believe that my "innocent" approach to this subject has a lot to do with the fact that I, as a happy owner of a Tahiti bar, never had any interest or hope in buying this one. So personally I had no reason to suspect a set up, I was much more excited about the possibility of finding photos of celebrities with it, or photos of the Bali Hai interior - as I always am, because to me as a Tiki historian and author that is where the real "value" lies.

Not that all others here whose b.s. detectors went off were entertaining hopes of purchase, I think Randy has a good point, nobody can deny the contradictory flow of messages so far --but for me, being the happy-go-lucky fella I am at heart, all that has perspired here so far can be chalked off to bad secondary info, human error, and fickle mind by the original posters on one hand, and over-interpretation by some of the readers on the other. Call me naive, but that is my (admittedly purely subjective) view of why this initially happy subject took such an unfortunate turn, eliciting all sorts of childish behavior. Tiz tiz, kids! (put shaking forefinger icon here) :)

I'm enjoying this thread! And I have a little advice for people who start down this path (as if anybody cares).

I'm always curious when somebody starts a post with something like "What is this thing worth?" as if anyone can really answer that question. Even seasoned appraisers can only give a rough guess and depending on all kinds of factors they're often way off base anyway. I learned a long time ago that the only way to get an accurate answer to this question is to SELL the dang thing.

So before you even ask the question, ask yourself this: Do I want to sell this thing, or do I really like it and want to keep it? If you've decided to sell it don't be cagey or coy about it and don't try to play it up beyond it's merits. Advertise the sale everywhere to everybody (Tiki Marketplace is a great forum), provide as much honest information as you can find. If you think your "thing" may be beyond your abilities to market, consider large auction houses like Sotheby's (their fees are very reasonable). Do this, and you'll quickly find the true value of your item.

No guts, no glory.

Now if you just want to insure the thing, pay for an appraisal and insure it for about 30% more.

$.02

That is all fine advice, but imagine you know NOTHING about Tiki, you know NOTHING about Witco, and come upon this "thing" of a bar: It is impressive, scary, whacky, and obviously not a run-of-the-mill item. Wouldn't you ask yourself, besides the What, Where and When, what the hell is this worth, out of curiosity? And then a friend tells you about this website...
Everybody nowadays has dreams of finding that "Antique Roadshow" treasure, it's a very innocent hope. I do not respond to obvious one-time posters who just want a free quote for something they obviously want to sell without having any interest in the history of it, but the initial post here did not seem to be of such ilk. To me that is. :)

Thanks for the vote of confidence BBT. You hit upon it exactly, my intent was just the basics, and I never dreamed it was such a cool find. I never saw anything like it and didn’t know there were even collectors out there. Very knowledgeable I might add. Finding that Witco tag was like finding the golden wonka ticket.

Speaking of the road show, I was contacted by one of their producers who saw it here.

(too much info)

Everyone here has my email, the bar is in my home and can be inspected by those who ask. If ya want come take photos and sit at it and critique it, every bit of expertise helps.

I'm sure there will be the ones who say BS to this too.

[ Edited by: MikenRich 2010-05-12 19:17 ]

Ha, Antiques Road Show called, that is funny. I can hear all the "Yeah, sure!" reactions here right now. If you're gonna hang on to this baby, and they get serious about it, please recommend me as the appraiser, my wife is a big fan of that show and would get a kick out of that. Have you gotten your copy of my "Tiki Modern" yet? Short of talking to Bill Westenhaver or his grandson in law Ken Pleasant that's all the expertise you're gonna need. :)

I've been lurking about watching this thread.

I admit I'm jealous of this discovery and recovery.

I'll also go on record to say F'CKIN AWESOME SCORE, DUDE! Enjoy it. Treasure it. Leave it to your grand kid when you pass.
We all have our dream finds.
Its not everyday a treasure like this surfaces.

Sometimes your dream find may not be (YOUR DREAM) find - did that make sense?

Thanks for your generosity too. G