The End of the Shag Era? Officially un-cool? Afraid so.

PS: :D

On 2003-06-09 15:42, aquarj wrote:
Declaring that Shag stuff is "officially un-cool" based on a hangup about mainstream accessibility is pretty hard to take seriously. But amazingly this seems to be a serious comment, as if "cool" is literally defined by whether or not showing something off elicits approval from some select group of hipsters, and elicits dumbfounded stares from everyone else. I've heard that there are people who think like this, just never seen one in action!
-Randy

I think aquarj said it best in his post so I won't repeat all that here, but having been a part of the original 1977 punk rock movement which was high-jacked long ago by mainstreamers, I can’t see the benefit of running around to 12 years olds in Ramones T-shirts and saying, "yes, but I did it all first." Today’s music and hair styles were totally ripped off from us punkers who took alot of duff from the mainstreamers in the beginning. (Of course NOW if you don't have spikey hair you aren't cool!) On another note, I never interviewed a punk band that didn’t want to make money doing what they loved – playing music. Let him make the money while he can. He has to make a living and his success only increases my painting’s value.

And don't yell at me if this quote didn't turn out right, its my first time quoting someone, ok?

On 2003-06-10 06:23, tiki410 wrote:
...put rabbit ears back on the TV. Talk about look cool in the living room.

Digi Cable+Rabbit Ears=Cool..g

Oh Yeah, Back on topic. I'd rather have a few small "main stream" Shag related products, than no Shag at all. Sure, I'd love everyone of his Mugs, Decanters & Prints, But there ain't a big enough wad in my skyrocket to cover that. So for now, I'm quite happy with the Shag Calender pages I've trimmed and have framed on me wall.

[ Edited by: badmojo on 2003-06-11 12:23 ]

theres a whole lotta snivelin going on!. If you like something, it is cool. If you like something cuz your pals think it's cool, you are not.this "sellout" b.s. is just that, b.s. . just cuz the media gets hip for a while(think how many young artists there are in the industry)does not give the "secure" cause for rejection.If you are different and happy, cool. BUT if someone likes what you like,that should not be cause for alarm.If the "tiki movement"becomes un-cool, are you going to bail?. NOT ME!.I loved this stuff the first time I set foot in kelbos in 1975, and I will love it till I die!.

On 2003-06-11 09:37, Atomic Cocktail wrote:
Am I not also allowed to post my observations on the topic? That's how I feel brother!

Of course, all opinions are welcomed. Even the joke-after-joke tollerated. But when I read "Blah Blah Blah" I just don't think it's contributing anything. Several people wrote it (more or less), and when I read it I think the person writing it is saying something like one of the following:

• This is irrelevant.
• I don't care what other people think about this.
• This is all silly, you should stop discussing this.

And none of it is adding to the discussion. It feels more like you're trying to get people to stop talking about it. And if anyone ever feels that way I urge them to live and let live, and silently pass up the topic rather than try to derail it.

If you didn't mean any of that by "Blah Blah Blah", then I appologize for jumping to conclusions. But please note that the you didn't communicate your point effectively.

~Hanford :D :D

On 2003-06-11 13:43, twowheelin'tiki wrote:
I loved this stuff the first time I set foot in kelbos in 1975, and I will love it till I die!.

Hell yeah!

You can have my Shag (R)(C)(TM) Tiki Mug when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

On 2003-06-09 15:42, aquarj wrote:
Declaring that Shag stuff is "officially un-cool" based on a hangup about mainstream accessibility is pretty hard to take seriously.

But isn't that what the whole "Cool" is completely about? I mean, other than "cool" as meaning "neato" or "swell", I thought the whole point of someone or something being "cool" was all about trends of the time. A seriously superfluous, shallow label that is applied based on popularity, trends, and how the definer (the person who labels something as Cool) appears to others when they label it such.

I didn't think it was something most people took seriously at all; that is was more for Trendsetters and Trendfollowers.

~Hanford

...I thought the whole point of someone or something being "cool" was all about trends of the time. A seriously superfluous, shallow label that is applied based on popularity, trends, and how the definer (the person who labels something as Cool) appears to others when they label it such.

Hmm, Hanford this is gonna sound silly, but I always thought that "HOT" is the word for what you just described. The hottest fashions out of Paris. Reality TV is hot. The hottest nightclub in the city.

Hot cars, hot girls, hot music - those are usually bsaed on trendy styles, and they're usually things I don't dig. Anything hot, except for weather and jacuzzis - I like them.

Is a cool car trendy? A cool girl? Cool music? Somehow I never associated cool with trends or popularity or specific consumer groups at all.

But I certainly agree it feels kinda silly talking about what's cool. If Kahukini just originally said "Shag is officially trendy now", then I bet a lot of people might not have thought it sounded so pretentious. It's easier to say what's trendy than what's cool, since the former is a little less subjective.

-Randy

Trendsetters and Trendfollowers

when i was a teenager, i used to get really pissed when things i liked became trendy. i felt like those things were being stolen from me. then i decided that deliberately disowning something or disliking something because it is trendy is still basing your opinion on what everyone else thinks, just in an opposite fashion.

So, have I stopped buying Shag prints because they are vaguely less cool & diluted by the fact that there's always another coming out just around the corner, or is it just because they no longer cost $60?

Maybe both.

Trader Woody

one last observation about those folks that held/hold shag in high esteem cuz he was new and bold in his style.his art was/is based on very commercial mainstream advertising art from the 50's and 60's that was very common when some of us were youngsters.does this mean that if you ever liked shag cuz you thought he was original that your a mainstream dork?.all things come full circle.that said, if any of you want to purge your selves of any shag art before kahukini finds out your clutching to the past and wont let you come over and play pirate( which reminds me, you had better all grow full beards and dress like your a little light in your loafers, its all the rage in cool world!, arr matey!),so just email me, and for a small fee i will take away these beacons of uncool and promptly display them amongst all my beloved rembrandt and frazetta prints that i love , COOL BE DAMNED!!!!!!!!! p.s. i can't wait till shag stuff shows up at cost plus in the art dept. so i can afford it!

Question:

How many Hypocrites does it take to drink out of a Shag mug?

Question:

How many Hypocrites does it take to hang a Shag print?

This whole post is a joke, right?

Did all those Tiki Mugs "back in the day" make their establishments "Sell Out's and Un-Cool?"

Is Trader Vics Un-Cool and a Sell Out?

Is Tiki Central Un-Cool and a Sell Out?

umm...

Kahukini Posted: 2003-06-08 17:04

Actually, I think what strikes me most about the end of the "shag era" is that Tiki itself is not cool (we are all engaged in something outsiders look on as akin to Trekkiism)... and while we don't care that it's not cool, Shag was a refreshing contribution, new and current and respected by all sorts of interesting people that prefer the expense and emptiness and lines of mod to the cheapness and clutter of tiki.

uncool you say?, all i can say is everyone that has seen my little bar area has always gawked with delight and suddenly gotten nostalgic for those cool bars of yesteryear. when informed that many are left, we always end up in one together within a week or so and they have a blast!. Damn my uncool pals!.

ummm....

Kahukini Posted: 2003-06-10 02:22
But I have a feeling it's going to get harder to introduce new people to Shag art, which is fun, because they'll already know about it! It's like the "is tiki getting too popular" threads of olde. If you haven't had the experience of welcoming uninitiated friends or friends-of-friends into your totatally decked out tiki bar, watching their jaws drop, and entertaining them with social history they never knew about, music they've never heard, and drinks the likes of which they've never tasted - if you haven't experienced this, it's easy to say "I don't care what other people think." But if you have, you know how fun it is, and if you're honest you have to admit that getting closer to the day when you welcome that first group of "uninitiated" into your tiki bar who associate your style with The Man Show, is sad indeed.

Ziggy Zoggy Ziggy Zoggy!! Oi! Oi! Oi!

:drink:

:o

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3526835235&category=360

It's a freaking postcard!!!

oops.

Lisa Lisa

[ Edited by: Cultjam on 2003-06-12 22:34 ]

Ska was cool, man they sure loved their Ska – >until Ska videos started to show up on MTV.

People who "love" a thing merely because they are among a handful of people who know about it don't really love it. It has nothing to do with the thing, it has to do with being "in" and "cool" (read: exclusionary).

regretting they got Shag tattoos. They’re

People who can't stand a thing once other people hear of it should NOT get tattooed.

Shag art on t.v. makes t.v. slightly less annoying.

After reading through all those pages, I had to post something. Here it is:

"That stuff is cool!" We hear that statement everyday when people see SHAG artwork at our gallery for the first time. Tiki is cool (at least in my opinion), however, there is a whole world out there that has yet to discover Tiki. Modernists, minimimalists and retro fans alike all seem to enjoy Shag art work. Josh is a great guy and we'll entertain buying any SHAG prints or originals you want to sell us. We, as gallery owners do not profess to know anything about art, however, we do know what we hear from our many customers and they vote YES on SHAG being cool (as do we).

We will continue to support great artists and manufacturers that contribute to Tiki Central like Bamboo Ben, Holden (Tikifarm) and Sven. They are also cool in our opinion.
We hope they all prosper financially and continue to make their customers happy as we expect they will.

We'll also buy any original art work from Kahukini as well. That way he can hopefully afford to remove the picture of his mother that follows each of his posts. Just kidding!!! Your sister really is cute.

http://www.mmoderngallery.com (Jay)

way cool site mmoderntiki, and thanks for the offer to buy my art, i'll let you know next time I make some

The Shag art at SPIKE TV is gone. There's apparently a controversy over the name and they had to pull it until it's resolved. SPIKE LEE claims he owns the rights to the name SPIKE so until they figure that out they are calling it the The New TNN.

I miss the Shag devils:
http://www.thenewtnn.com/

Thanks exoticat! That's interesting to know. I guess I can take that link out of my favorites page on the computer. (yeah right!) :wink:

The Shag Man Leaveth.

Hopefully the shag stuff can find a comfortable medium between fanatacism and garage sale material.

Anything that is NEW and manipulated to create demand is inevitably destined to burn out (the beanie baby analogy has been mentioned many times, anybody remember cabbage patch dolls?).

Shag prints are not rare finds from and artist that died 40 years ago. They are new prints that are purposely limited to create that fanatical "I gotta have one, I have to buy them all, I have to sell them before the price drops" attitude. They are not really rare because of time or circumstance, they are rare because someone has chosen to make it that way.

I think Shag art is really cool and could be very popular in the mainstream. The appeal of his art is in the interesting depictions and great colors. The simplicity and colors would make these prints appealing to a huge audience if given the chance.

The bummer is that people are spending $500 on something that is not a whole lot different than a printed page from a magazine. Its not oil on canvas or hand painted its practically a POSTER.

The more secure you become in your own choices the more inevitable it is that you don't care what "COOL" is. You like because YOU like it. Who cares what everyone else thinks.

By the way, who cares what I think?

Monkeyman

All this hullabaloo over a little snippet of Shag artwork on the TNN website for a week? Oy vey! Who will even see this? Honestly. OK, let me rephrase that. What kind of person would actually go out of their way to visit "The New TNN" website? I'd wager that they fall into two groups.

1. Pro Wrestling Aficionados.
I certainly don't want to sound elitist or make crass generalizations, because I definitely enjoy viewing the occasional steel cage match, and I have many close friends and family members who absolutely love Pro Wrestling. However, their reaction to Shag's art work when perusing the WWE schedule probably wouldn't sound like this, "Hmmmmm... I'm utterly fascinated by these chic retro renderings with strong leanings toward the commercial art of the 1950's and 1960's, and vague nods to the Polynesian Pop culture of golden age Americana. Since these images are deemed 'cool' by The New TNN, I shall not rest until I've purchased every available piece of merchandise produced by this Shag fellow. Hitherto increasing demand for his work, driving up resale prices, and therefore thrusting him further into the mainstream mass market. Muahahahahahahahah!!!" Their reaction would most likely be something akin to, "Cool. Nekkid cartoon chicks. pause I wonder who The Rock's 'rasslin' this week?"

2. Ren & Stimpy Fanatics.
The denizens of the second group would only access the website in search of more information on the new episodes of "Ren & Stimpy" beginning Thursday, June 26th at 10:00 PM EST, or to download the recent interview with "Ren & Stimpy" creator John K. The vast majority of these loons (yeah, it takes one to know one) are already familiar with Shag, and will probably elicit the following response, "Cool. Nekkid cartoon chicks.... drawn by Shag. pause I wonder if the new R&S episodes will have more fart jokes?"

Now, that I've contributed to the "mountains from mole hills" process, I'll leave you with CK's final thought. I love Shag's artwork. I derive a great deal of enjoyment from viewing his paintings simply for their intrinsic artistic value. With the possible exception of the residuals from the illustrations in "Tiki Drinks" by Adam Rocke, Shag has never made a dime off of me. I'm glad someone's footing the bill to keep him working.

Cheers,

Cowtown Kahuna...
....(who apologizes for the near "Tolstoy length" of this post.)

[ Edited by: Cowtown Kahuna on 2003-06-17 15:01 ]

I know this is fascinating, but "since you asked" as Salon would say, there are certain sites I visit compulsively virtually every day, one of which is http://yahoo.com/new ...where I found the TNN link and clicked on it because I wanted to find out what Spike was all about - I mean, yeah, he's one of my favorite Buffy characters, but I just don't see him filling up a whole cable channel.

The Shag phenomenon is as follows: He is still the leader of a successful art style he popularised. Often you see people jumping on the bandwagon late and taking a good part of the profits generated by the buying public.
I watch printed and online illustator catalogues as part of my job, and in the last couple of years there like at least 10 people in Germany alone trying to look Shag-ish, more ore less. Even my girlfriend who is much into retro and and design, though not american oriented, she didn’t know the Shag postacrds from the imitators when obeying them at a store.
He is just grabbing what he can before the next generation of art school graduates takes over for good. I can’t blame him. he will get into a more relaxed position eventually. His work will be less affordable and scarcer, but he has to set himself apart from the crowd again.

KK

On 2003-06-11 09:20, bananabobs wrote:
Most of his art is kinda cool...kinda beatnik rather than total TiKi,

Its straight comercial look can’t be beatnik by ANY means. beatnik art imho looks more like abstract expressionism.

By the way, I like shag’s decorativeness, but why always people in his picture? In my pad i like to be the main person defining the style, not the people in the pictures looking perfect in a perfect environment. Is’s too easy to be perfect when you are a cartoon. That’s unfair!

KK