IMPORTANT: Spam in Collecting Tiki

This has come up a lot recently so I thought I’d address it.

There’s a been a lot of discussion about spam in the Collecting Tiki forum, and a lot of ribbing of people who post an auction or sale as their first post. In all but one case that I can remember, the announcer has left, often in a huff. So I want to clarify some things. First in a very simple form, then in a detail.

The basics:

• Auction announcements are allowed in Collecting Tiki ,regardless of who’s posting it.
• Be kind to people and judge them on their auction quality, not number of posts.

Announcing an eBbay auction for something that is truly Tiki-related is not Spam, no matter who the announcer is, or how many posts they have. Collecting Tiki is the appropriate forum for announcing it. The forum was started for exactly that reason.

Tiki Central is about the exchange of information. It was that way from the beginning and for a long time that’s all it really was. Making friends and becoming a real community came later. And announcing a Tiki ebay auction completely fits into the mission and model of Tiki Central. I’m not saying the friendship/community part isn’t important, only that it shouldn’t stand in the way of the information exchange.

If you take a look at http://www.tikicentral.com ‘s homepage, you’ll see I have a lot of Features geared at pretty basic tiki stuff. There’s a reason for that: I was once a complete Tiki novice (and still am in many aspects) and just I wanted to tell other novices about the stuff I found. I had always wished there was a place for people who don’t or can’t spend hours at flea markets, antique stores, and whatnot.

I want Tiki Central to stay newbie-friendly. If someone new posts an auction, I ask that you please don’t harass them simply because they’re new. If the auction is overpriced or of horrible quality or is pseudo-tiki, definitely feel free to post about that, but be polite and stick to the facts, and assume they’re new and aren’t aware of their auction’s shortcomings. You’re not only letting the newbie know politely, but you’re also informing (thousands of) other regulars who may not be aware of price/quality/genre issues. The benefit of this is simple: seasoned members can expose the auction for what it is (either good or bad) whether it’s an honest newbie or a guy trying to make a quick buck; newer members reading will learn from the replies, and in the case the auction is posted by someone who’s truly into Tiki, then we haven’t scared them away.

I am working on getting (A) better house rules for Collecting Tiki and getting them in a place that is easier to read, esp. for the newbies and (B) a “SALE” option for new posts that make it easy for people to weed out auctions from other posts. Please bear with me until I’ve gotten that added.

I’m interested in what everyone has to say about this because the Spam issue is governed by emotion as much as it is logic. If I’ve missed something, let me know. If you’ve never posted to Tiki Central, here’s an invite to voice yourself.

~Hanford
(and Mig)

I agree it's pretty cheesy when people ONLY use this site to try and sell their stuff to a target audience. However, if we're too draconian in trying to deter such practices, we could be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Even within a tiki affinity group, there are varying tastes and budgets. A wise entrepenuer would stick around long enough to figure out what we want that we can't find.

It's great to have a place where we can let our hair down and just be ourselves. A lot more fun for everybody if we can do so without cramping other peoples' style.

FREEDOM OF THE PRESS!

On 2003-06-15 14:54, twowheelin'tiki wrote:
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS!

Can you expand on this a little? I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me ...

~Hanford

I do think this area could be subdivided into "Ebay Auctions" which could even be deleted after they are a month old maybe. And maybe "Tiki Finds" and "Selling Tiki" or "Sales sites and resources" and "Wanted."

Collecting is about selling, trading, buying and even sharing.

hanford_lemoore wrote:
In all but one case that I can remember, the announcer has left, often in a huff. So I want to clarify some things...

Perhaps we should give way to the thought that those that "left in a huff" were possibly/actually guilty of spamming. I personally believe that if they were truly & innocently putting something up for sale as their first post, and then so sensitive that (negative) responses to it drove them away, then it was just a matter of time before they got their feelings hurt another way. Let's face it, we do have some TC'ers that you have to get to know before learning about their humor. Also, we all don't have like opinions, so again, it would have been a matter of time before they came up against opposition on another subject. I tend to lean towards the fact that the 'accused' spammer was just trying to make a quick buck from an easy target = Tiki Central.

hanford_lemoore wrote:
[*]Be kind to people and judge them on their auction quality, not number of posts.

Do you mean "quality" as in "presentation"? IF so, then on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being top score, I give a 1 for ONLY saying to the affect of "here's something you need to buy" or "check out this place for tiki stuff" or anything presented in that fashion. I give a 8/9 score for those saying who they are, what they like about tiki or what influenced them, and any additional non-selling information they offer. I give a 10 for including where they are actually from and an email address (just for added credibility of truly wanting to become part of the TC group).

hanford_lemoore wrote:
Announcing an eBay auction for something that is truly Tiki-related is not Spam, no matter who the announcer is, or how many posts they have...

Ok, so let's say they have something tiki-related, for ME PERSONALLY, I believe a little introduction or at the very least a "Hello" or "Aloha" is what is nice to have, but not always received.

If I was at a TC gathering with my fellow TC friends, and out from behind comes a person we've never seen or met says "I've got this six-inch carved-from-lava tiki, who will give me $30 for it?", without so much as an introduction, I would honestly think that we would wonder and ask: "well, who are you? Where did you come from?" etc., before even considering purchasing that tiki. I believe it's just common courtesy for a proper introduction whether you meet someone in person or on-line.

hanford_lemoore wrote:
If someone new posts an auction, I ask that you please don’t harass them simply because they’re new. If the auction is overpriced or of horrible quality or is pseudo-tiki, definitely feel free to post about that, but be polite and stick to the facts...The benefit of this is simple: seasoned members can expose the auction for what it is (either good or bad) whether it’s an honest newbie or a guy trying to make a quick buck...

So what about those that cry "harassment" even if it's a seasoned member who exposes an auction for what it is? This may be a neverending circle.

My previously expressed thoughts of pre-qualifying new members still stands strong in my mind.

Thanks, Hanford, for letting express my views on the subject.

You know, if I wanted the damned tiki for 30.00, I'd just buy it regardless of the deeper meaning of the whole thing. I'm happy to see the stuff for sale in one place, personally, and would love to look at more of it every day.

If someone just pops in to sell something without being social, they're doing themselves a disservice since their item won't get as much attention, but they aren't really hurting us, since it's so easy to ignore them. I don't see a compelling reason to try to filter these folks out -- if we just ignore them, their boring posts will float naturally to the bottom of the list, anyhow.

Plus, it's better to know too much about what's available on the tiki market than too little; it's not as if these folks are trying to pitch non-tiki stuff to us. Since we began this spam dialogue in earnest (it has been a good one, btw), multiple folks have piped up to say they enjoy seeing these posts. Hell, I even thought the "Fishy" panties were worth seeing, just because they were so ludicrous.

Bottom line: some people like these posts, so let them be. If you don't like them, the course to take is simple: ignore them.

Amen, sista Humu.

Thanks everyone for the replies, keep them coming.

SCD, I understand your feelings on this. I’m not asking anyone to change their opinion on posts like this. I’m only asking that we stick more to the facts and be polite to any new visitor.

SCD wrote:

Perhaps we should give way to the thought that those that "left in a huff" were possibly/actually guilty of spamming.

It’s not spamming if it’s tiki-related. This is a Tiki Collecting forum. If they’re posting a Tiki collectable for sale, then it simply isn’t spamming. This is probably why most people leave in a huff: they’re confused as to why an informative, on-topic post is being rejected.

I tend to lean towards the fact that the 'accused' spammer was just trying to make a quick buck from an easy target = Tiki Central.

I don’t understand how this is bad. If the auction is a great value, then you’re going to welcome this ‘spammer’ – I don’t think anyone would have had a problem with the Shag seller if s/he were selling each print for 75 bucks. If it’s a bad value, experienced members should post and let others know, politely. Therefore, the only money this ‘spammer’ is going to make is a fair value … they’re not going to be able to rip anyone off. And everyone wins: Some Tiki Central member gets a cool tiki thing for a good price, and the seller is able to sell their item. Once the auction is over, they’ll either never post again, or they’ll post more (auctions or otherwise), therefore becoming a regular.

I believe it's just common courtesy for a proper introduction whether you meet someone in person or on-line.

I agree. And I think that it’s common courtesy that we’re polite to people even if they don’t introduce themselves to our satisfaction. Remember: introductions can be made by either party. Not everyone is going to view Tiki Central as a social setting at first. Newbies make mistakes – that’s a fact of life. Let’s go easy on them.

But I’m not sure I fully understand this aspect of the reaction to “spam”, because new members jump in all the time in other (non-auction) forums/posts without introducing themselves, and they don’t get the cold shoulder there. Is it simply the fact that they’re trying to sell something?

So what about those that cry "harassment" even if it's a seasoned member who exposes an auction for what it is? This may be a neverending circle.

All we can do it try. That’s all I’m asking. We can try to be polite and stick to the facts when critiquing an auction. If they cry harassment anyway (the hoity toity girl seemed pretty high-strung in the regard) then at least we tried. That’s all we can do.

I want to point out that I’m trying to fix both sides of the issues. Last night I made changes to the “New Topic” feature for Collecting Tiki (test it out by clicking the New Topic button and then seeing the new options). It asks you to read the rules, and it provides an easy way for people to flag their posts as eBay auctions. It’s my hope that more members (both new and longtime) will read and abide by the rules.

Thanks for reading,

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-06-16 02:09 ]

I think it's a really wrong way to think that everyone who posts an item for sale must also be a part of the social scene here or give us some bio. That's just wrong.

There a re a lot of people who never, or rarely post, but they read. A person could have been reading this site for months and have a great item to sell. They are just not for this way of communicating. Should we make them feel bad about that? No.

If all the member os TIki Central posted a lot, we'd be swamped!

I think SugarCaddy should join http://www.tikimug.com and talk to everyone there about it and see what they think.

JUST KIDDING!

[ Edited by: KokomoTikiBar&Grill on 2003-06-16 14:23 ]

Hey now, SCD's just voicing his opinion, and that's great. I understand how he feels because from time to tim a post here will just bug me, and it's an emotional thing. It's not about right or wrong, it's not about the logic of it, it's just the damn post bugs me! And if that's the way someone feels about these "spam" posts, then no amount of guidelines or suggestions are going to change that.

But that's why I say I'm not asking anyone to change their opinions on it, just their public reactions.

If it means we have to give a little bit in this area to make it a better place for new members (and old members), then I think it's worth it.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-06-16 22:22 ]

I found humor in my post, you did not? I better put in my "JUST KIDDING"

Thank you Hanford! I feel the same way you do. I was not too happy with how people responded with my 1st post. I thought I was going to be dealing with a bunch a Tiki Snobs.. I was insulted because respectfully I did read and follow the instructions on posting an ebay auction. However.. after some communication.. everything turned out to be great! Im happy I stuck around. I use this site now more than ever.
Loving Monkeypaw

[ Edited by: MonkeyPaw on 2003-06-16 15:27 ]

Bump

When people use this board to sell their things, I think it's fine as long as they stick to the rules. Maybe a notice to sellers in the heading to check rules would help new members. Now that it seems everyone has one of those cafe shops, that should have to be in the title just like "ebay" does. I really have no interest in cafe shops. I'm sure we wouldn't mind if a newbie came selling "odd Steve Crane mugs for $20.00"

Now while we're bitching about posts that "just bug me" I hate when people post messages on the board aimed at just one person-like "_____ call me" or "____ e-mail me" It seems to happen here often. There is such a thing as Private Messages! Posted messages/questions should be directed at the group or be of some interest to more than a single member. Keep in mind some people get all posts via e-mail and don't want to read your private communications. There, ahhh, I feel better, Thanks, Laney

Hey! Hanford, How come you have not bought anything from me yet??? Ha! Ha!Ha! Laney sorry but, Hanford I need your snail mail address. (or, shipping address) How bout a "classified section" for spamming! But, some how charge us for posting on it!! I want to build a bar out of Spam one of these days and bring it to an event and we can all eat it! My thoughts are, Hanford is doing what he can and all the other freaks are freakin out! If you can't hang with what is free, then move out of the country! Hanford is da man for giving us a place to post our words. Hanford is my best friend I never met! (the big ol tiki bash does not count!)

The Rev. Bamboo Ben!!!

Trust me, that's not a dare...it's a scare...he'll build the bar we can eat.
Sorry Hanford, off post, but couldn't resist.
:)

This seems related to a recent post so I'm bumping it to the top.
:)

crap. i thought that this thread would be about the not-really-tiki, but pacific and so ono

i collect old primo beer goods and am always on the lookout for classic spam tins and adverts. anybody else collect things related to the goodness that is spam?

Is this forum for posting tiki related ebay or any other online auctions only? Can we post tiki related items we might be selling through a website as well?

On 2003-10-25 09:33, kauno wrote:
Is this forum for posting tiki related ebay or any other online auctions only? Can we post tiki related items we might be selling through a website as well?

Yes, people do that too. It's an informal setting. Some members may like to read a little of your company history, and how you came to be doing what you're doing as far as Tiki goes.

On 2003-06-18 22:35, RevBambooBen wrote:
...I want to build a bar out of Spam one of these days and bring it to an event and we can all eat it! ...
The Rev. Bamboo Ben!!!

Will there be a 2nd bar built of Ritz Crackers to put the bar built of Spam on? :D

(Almost) Seriously, what about a bar built of spam cans with bamboo accents?