Proposal for Anything Goes

Deleted.

[ Edited by: TheMuggler on 2003-08-26 08:27 ]

DO IT NOW!!!. That would be so damn cool.

I’m not quite sure if you’re asking for a truly-unmoderated “anything goes” forum or just a more lenient but still moderated forum.

I don’t think a true “Anything Goes” forum would fly. Mainly because there are truly some things that I don’t want posted on TC. Racist and other “hate” topics, for one. I couldn’t let topics like that sit on my website. You may think that it might not ever get to that point, but I have already censored one extreme anti-gay statement on TC.

I believe that Tiki Central is, and should continue to be, a civilized and fair place to post. I don’t want a forum where people don’t have to consider the feelings of others when posting. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I just don’t want a forum like that on tikicentral.com.

I don’t feel that Tiki Central’s current set of rules is limiting, either. You’ve got to not call people names; you’re got to not talk War, Religion, and Politics (for the time being); you’ve got to not troll for flames; and spamming is not allowed. Almost everything else is open. For the small percentage of TC members where these rules are too limiting, there are many other options on the web that will address their needs.

Comments? I'm interested in people's thoughts on this subject.

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-08-24 15:52 ]

I think this section should be more literally about things of interest to vintage and retro culture, but not tiki. Not politics and religion, but music, furntiture, events, collecting, etc. of stuff that is not tiki, but not jusdt anything either.

This is an appalling suggestion after all we've been through lately. There are SO MANY PLACES where you can get into arguments about politics and relgion, inlcuding your local tavern where you actually might have to back up your flames with fisticuffs or worse.

I have made the mistake, repeatedly, of diving into these threads and later asking myself just what the f**k an intelligent guy like me was doing getting sucked into that mode again, and being embarrassed for my sorry-assed self. Hanford, I beg you not to do this. TC really should reamin one of the few places in our lives where we can take refuge from the great burden of Opinion (capital 'O' deliberate), ours as well as anyone else's!

aloha to all,
emspace.

Deleted.

[ Edited by: TheMuggler on 2003-08-26 08:27 ]

On 2003-08-24 20:41, TheMuggler wrote:
emspace, I'm sorry if you found my suggestion "appalling" but I didn't intend it to be offensive in any way.

Hiya Muggler, I never was offended, not at all, just terrified of what such a forum could degenerate into. Admitting too, that in weak moments I'd probably be one of the buggers that'd help it degenerate! Absolutely no offense taken.

aloha,
em.

Hanford,

Tiki Central is a safe haven where we can escape for a while from all the bullshit that occurs in the world. Please don't try to appease everyone and compromise your creation in the process. If members want to discuss religion, politics etc. there are a million places to find that on the web. Just my 1 cent. Thanks

Opinions are like farts...
Yours is O.K....
Everyone else's STINKS!

On 2003-08-25 00:19, fartsatune wrote:
Opinions are like farts...
Yours is O.K....
Everyone else's STINKS!

http://www.jokes.thefunnybone.com/waves/fart.wav

I enjoy a heated debate. That's the opposite of what I come to TC for. And I do not want to argue with the people here. We may have very different views about a whole host of issues, but I don't want to get into that with these people. It's just not the way I want to interact with the people who come together here with common loves and the comraderie we share on these tiki and retro related topics. TC is very positive now. I think we don't need a place for negativity.

On 2003-08-25 09:14, Swanky wrote:
It's just not the way I want to interact with the people who come together here with common loves and the comraderie we share on these tiki and retro related topics. TC is very positive now. I think we don't need a place for negativity.

Yeah, what he said. (In other words, I agree.) And besides, it is still called TIKI Central, right? (With some other retro stuff thrown in too, of course.)

The common likes, acceptance, sharing of knowledge and helpfulness of people on TC is what originally attracted me to TC. It's an island of good karma in a sea of negative messageboards. Let's see if we can focus more on our commonalities (which I think is more the point of a site like this ) instead of differences so we can be successful at keeping that Aloha Spirit going.

[ Edited by: Monkeyman 2014-01-20 16:15 ]

[ Edited by: DaneTiki 2009-08-30 19:19 ]

...and Dane, I am heartily sorry for some of the things I said to you before. that's exactly the kind of behaviour (on my part) that I end up regretting...

aloha,
emspace

On 2003-08-25 15:01, DaneTiki wrote:

As far as a moderated anything goes format is concerned, I discern from Hanford's various comments that he finds moderating the extremely controversial discussions less than appealing. As would nearly anyone.

I agree!

Compare Hanford's forbearance to the policies of many other moderated forums and he seems, if anything, too lenient.

I wouldn't say too lenient but it is interesting to note that on another board started by a Tiki Central member that deals with "controversial" subjects the rules are much stricter:

"Here is a short list of "bad manners":

Ad Hominem Attacks: Confine your point to the topic and post. Personal attacks
produce nothing positive, and will be removed or confronted at the Moderator's discretion. Maintaining a level-headed and balanced demeanor in emotionally charged threads earns respect. A moderator will certainly step in to disrupt any consistent pattern of "Flaming".

Flagrant Trolling: Also known as "flamebaiting". Posts made in an obvious attempt to be merely disruptive or confrontational will be locked or deleted at the Moderator's discretion. Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people involved in "your" thread. Substance is the key to not being labeled a troller.

Objectionable Material: Pornographic, sexually offensive, sexually explicit, or racially discriminatory material is not allowed. Moderator's judgment applies here. Sexually suggestive images will be removed. Many participants view the Forum from their workplace, and such material can cause problems for them.

Excessive Foul Language: Modest amounts of "coloration" are perfectly acceptable in making a point. Gratuitous use of profanity will be dealt with at the Moderator's discretion. Please refrain from using words commonly described as "profanity" in posting titles at all times."

There are other boards that deal with these subjects-take the discussion to them since like stereotypical Americans (sorry to the ausländers) we can't seem to discuss "controversial" subjects without trying to kill each other. Beyond Tiki should be for "Lounge, Retro, Swing, Cars, Tattoos, Art...".

Now let's all kiss and make up-and have some SPAM!

Hey, how about a Spam forum?

[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail on 2003-08-25 19:42 ]

You folks do understand that you would not HAVE TO READ these threads ,right?.You could avoid them like anything that offends you.Some folks like to play a little harder then others, and some like to debate.It is like Howard Stern,just don't listen!(or in this case read).The family reference is true about T.C. Some of the best debates happen at the family dinner table.Please don't feel the need to protect us from our selves.

Another "no" vote here for Anything Goes. There are plenty of venues out there for discussions about politics, religion, and such.

Anything Goes would be a forum set up specifically for the purpose of arguing. Why bother? It wouldn't have anything to offer most of the T.C. members--only the egomaniacs. And I don't think "If you don't like it, just don't read it" is a good enough strategy for deciding whether a new forum is a good idea.

I'd like to see Tiki Central kept to tiki and somewhat related topics.

Ignoring obnoxious threads is an option, just like TV, but what if you want a decent discussion without the OReilly/Stern factor.

how about an "Anything Goes Challenge", The challenge will be to keep a discussion on topic with resorting to petty attacks on others, This includes critisism of others grammar, intellect (or lack thereof), geographic slurs.

On 2003-08-26 07:38, Erika wrote:
Anything Goes would be a forum set up specifically for the purpose of arguing. Why bother? It wouldn't have anything to offer most of the T.C. members--only the egomaniacs.

I deleted my original post, which was made at the height of the recent heated debates on TC and before Hanford banned discussion of religion and politics in TC.

But I did want to point out the irony in Erika's comment above. Erika, if you want to avoid arguments you should refrain from calling people who disagree with you "egomaniacs."

From my own personal experience:

On another Anything Goes forum for a web site I actually contributed to, some anonymous wacko mysteriously started a really vicious, vitriolic Hate Thread directed at yours truly that was pretty disturbing, especially when other total strangers who knew nothing about me jumped on his bitter bandwagon, making all kinds of personal assumptions and even insulting my wife in the process, whom they never even met! That made it "go time" for me. I made the supremely regrettable mistake of jumping into the fray after someone alerted me to this nonsense. What a monumental waste of time and energy. It's best not to even acknowledge that mob mentality, especially when they're making potshots from behind the protection of their far-flung keyboards. You only wind up feeding their little frenzy.

The sad reality is,the internet attracts and even provides a haven for a number of insecure malcontents who have nothing better to do than fling sour grapes at total strangers, safe and secure in their untouchable electronic identity. It's akin to flipping people off while speeding down the highway. Maybe it makes you feel powerful in some petty way, but it's pretty annoying to the rest of us.

I'm all for debate and dissent, and even though I initially posted a thread on this site that was quickly locked due to escalating hostilities (despite my carefully crafted intro, or so I thought), I now agree with others that in a faceless forum, controversial topics are best left to in-person conversation. I think sites like this are most productive as resources of networking. But I learned this the hard way. Just my two cents.

On the upside: thanks to that aforementioned hate thread (which was never fully explained, since the instigator never contacted me directly, but quickly locked by the moderator), I was introduced to the whole concept of chat rooms and message boards, and have made many cool connections since then. That's just the nature of this brave new computer world, full or unexpected risks and rewards.

I won't actually vote thumbs down on an Anything Goes forum here - I was just sharing my own unfortunate and uncomfortable experience with one. This isn't my site, and not my call. Hanford comes across as very mature and fair-minded and doesn't seem to need my input. I just won't visit such a forum should one develop. Even if someone baits me with a "Why I Hate AquaZombie" thread.

My vote & opinion on a separate "Anything Goes" Forum: NO, NO, NO! Just in case you didn't read it right: NO!

I believe that the description heading to the "Beyond Tiki" Forum should read:
Got something to share that's not Tiki-specific, but you think the members of Tiki Central would like it? Share it here. Lounge, Retro, Swing, Cars, Tattoos, Art, Surf, Tropical/Hawaiiana, Vintage.

"and beyond" should be deleted. It leaves too much of an open door to those that "take a mile" when given an inch.

Our posts are open to Google, Yahoo, Excite, etc. web searches. If controversial, slanderous, racial (or whatever you want to call it) posts are made in an Anything Goes forum, it then can be found by those who are looking for an internet argument, which then lets them think that we are welcoming such Idiotic Posts (which is what the forum should be called since that is the type of forum it would end up being). Hanfords mailbox would then be filled with emails from disgruntled members because someone is sure to be insulted somewhere, somehow, in some way. He would then have to email them back to explain that it's an "ANYTHING GOES" forum and to expect those types of posts. Unfortunately, those members that would join TC just to put their 2-cents in on subjects in an Anything Goes forum, would most likely not keep their 2-cents strictly in that forum. There are alot of other websites for highly controversial chat. Let them go there!

In addition, I don't want to have the main topic at future TC social gatherings to be how TC has been overrun by terrible, controversial, insulting posts, which, by the way, has been talked about just by the few posts we have had.....which brings me to my last point:

Since we are unlike 95% of other internet forums, whereby we actually meet each other, go on trips with each other, and socialize in person on a regular basis, you will notice that those topics that have been either highly insulting and/or highly controversial have been by members that are not quite local to any other members at all or don't socialize with other members in person. For them, we are just names on the screen. We are basically non-existent to them other than being a sounding board for their spamming for profiteering, their allegiance to some faith/religion and/or political view, or trying to find some kind of acceptance for out-of-control substance abuse.

We, as a whole, have been able to police quite a bit of these types of posts, and nip most problems in the bud, but, unfortunately, it does have it's end result as a locked post by Hanford.

Like I've said before: Tiki and Tiki Central's attraction for me is ESCAPISM. Controversial/insulting/religious/political posts on TC is like having a non-stop ringing fax & phone on my tropical isle.

I don't like that. Do you?

Just my 2 coconuts worth.

SugarCaddyDaddy's SoCal Hoity Toity Schedule!

[ Edited by: sugarcaddydaddy on 2003-08-26 15:08 ]

well muggler, the people have spoken!.This idea is as dead as ceasar.I think some folks with more time on the web then I might just know something that we don't.Guess we will have to keep it "disney".Maybe it's for the better.

"if you don't like it, don't read it" is a great concept that doesn't work in real life. I tried to take this stance originally, but then I realized it's just not humanly possible for a lot of people. It should be possible, but it's not.

It's one of those things that I wish I could change but I have no power over it, so we have to work around it.

~Hanford

PS Thanks everyone for the suggestions, esp. Muggler. I know the idea didn't fly, but it's great that he's thinking of ways to fix the problem. I love the attitude of "let's fix it" rather than "it's broken ... move on"! :)

On 2003-08-26 12:29, AquaZombie wrote:
The sad reality is,the internet attracts and even provides a haven for a number of insecure malcontents who have nothing better to do than fling sour grapes at total strangers

...not to mention complete headcases - like me!

:)
em

Thanks, Hanford, and thanks Muggler (it was good to open up the idea for discussion in a positive way). For so many reasons, many of which other members have already worded beautifully, I agree that this is not the place for Waaay Beyond Tiki.

The argument for you-don't-have-to-read-it? I agreed with that and DIDN'T read the now locked posts at first. But that left me with two problems.

1.) It meant that there was a whole big THING that a lot of my TC friends were all talking about, that involved members that I really like, and I was completely clueless! Curiousity killed the cat - I read it all, which led to a much bigger problem:

2.) A lot of what was being discussed was in fact direct insults to my beliefs, both political (fine - I don't care) and religious (I do). So then I was torn every day - do I sit by and not enter the fray, so as not to add fuel to fire? Do I risk being a chicken-sh*t who doesn't stand up for what she believes, despite the fact that she SAYS it's so important to her?

So here was this LOVELY part of my life, TC, now giving me agony daily! I was constantly mentally writing what I felt compelled to say, and was reLIEVED when the chance to respond was taken from me.

So I too agree with keeping that stuff on other boards. Members who wish to congregate and discuss those issues can email each other or have their own Way Beyond Tiki parties and events.

TIKI: Now, more than ever
http://www.clouseaux.com

[ Edited by: Formikahini on 2003-08-27 15:59 ]

On 2003-08-26 13:07, SugarCaddyDaddy wrote:
Since we are unlike 95% of other internet forums, whereby we actually meet each other, go on trips with each other, and socialize in person on a regular basis, you will notice that those topics that have been either highly insulting and/or highly controversial have been by members that are not quite local to any other members at all or don't socialize with other members in person. For them, we are just names on the screen.

Well I been watching how this was going and since I was so involved in the Kahukini political fray, I don't know whether to apologize or disappear. As I'd said in that post I was offended by the person shoving their political views into our face and then insulting a TC'er who tried to offer a compromise position. Since I am fairly new to the board I was unfamiliar with previous instances that led to locked posts. In fact, I hadn't even heard of a locked post until then. Anyway, I think that SugarCaddy took the words right out of my mouth - this group is unique in that we meet and socialize in public at regional events or local ones - and this makes us different. This has grown to be a unique community of friends and family all united by a common thread (tiki) and do we really need fight over our differences? I personally don't have an objection to having an anything goes forum since it is up to the TC'er to read or not-read the posts. But one should be mindful that one may meet one day in person, taking a flame war from a keyboard to a social situation and would you want to do that. If such a forum existed, one should keep this in mind when posting and be careful in making sound arguments and not personal attacks on fellow TCers. The other problem I see is how to decide if a topic needs to be placed there - or moving a topic from another area if it turns into a debate? That could get kind of tricky. But what I don't get is why someone would go crying to Hanford about an attack - what do they expect him to do about it? Just my thoughts, as incoherant as they may be.