Greetings! (re-discoverer of Tiki) ex-New England now in SoCal - General Tiki

K Kukoae Member The Valley Joined: Apr 26, 2005 Posts: 37	K Kukoae Posted posted on Tue, Apr 26, 2005 11:51 PM On 2005-04-26 21:03, stentiki wrote: I wonder if Tikigreg knows about the Southseas? If he lived there during the first half of the 1980s (or prior), and was near enough to Hartford, it was a hard spot to miss. I was also very intrigued with your experiences in New Zealand, Hawaii, and especially Vanuatu, a place where I hope to visit someday. Vanuatu has many sights to offer, but remember they are Melanesians rather than Polynesians. The culture is very different; daring to make such an evaluation, I'd say the Polynesian peoples are far more advanced and "intact" comparatively. For one thing, the Maoris weren't pushovers for White Colonials - they gave as good as they got. For another, even a cursory inspection of Polynesian (at least Maori with my own limited academic exposure) culture reveals it's highly evolved with all of the classic signs of "civilisation": lots of skill specialisation with preliminary forms of "abstract government", i.e., a ruler or officer who holds position not solely through force of arms, etc. The Maori martial techniques, while not as surgical or elaborately choreographed as Asian styles, are not mere "hack and slash". Young warriors underwent (painful) training with a variety of weapons, many of which seemed rather useful for bisecting the skull with a single "crack!". When you see a Polynesian crack open a coconut perfectly bisected hemispherically with a deft tap in just the right place, keep in mind they used those skills on animal targets as well. Whoa. If you make it to The Land of the Long White Cloud (Aotearoa)[NZ], I highly suggest a visit to Rotorua where some careful Maori-owned recreations of Maori villages can be visited. Tamaki Tours in Rotorua operates one where you get to partake of a "hangi" [HAHNG-ee] (feast). The tour group is "cast" into the role of a "visiting tribe" to the village, and an (un?)lucky "volunteer" gets to face down an enormous Maori dude who does his "demon face" and mock belligerent act in front of you (the proper response is "none"). It's extremely educational. I didn't see anything this structured in Hawai'i, though I realise that the Hawai'ian peoples are all but gone (very few pure-blooded stocks left), being a minority on their own islands. Some of the backpacker owners thought Tamaki was a bit too "political" or "confrontational", but hey, it doesn't hurt to be on the receiving end of some criticism once in a while. Besides which, the warnings were wholly unjustified. They made each guest feel very welcome, and while they didn't pull any punches in detailing their recent history, they certainly didn't "trade an eye for an eye" on that score. I rather liked how they tried to set a "serious" tone for the experience, so that you did have to exert a little effort and some creativity to "join into the experience" properly. If you want to interface with "real/living" Polynesians, I think the Maoris are your best example. They retained alot of their pride/strength/dignity, and there was some spirit left in them by the time the quasi-cultural apatheid had reversed to one where the government acknowledged and formally accepted their cultural diversity. Maori is taught in NZ schools, and many non-Maoris do speak some of it. They are the hugest people you're going to meet. I don't mean "porky" huge like Samoans, but freaking HUGE powerhouses of strength and muscle. Needless to say, every bar in Auckland has a Maori for a bouncer. The great thing about them is that you never need more than one. The old story about a Maori soldier going berzerk during WW2 after seeing a fallen comrade who then proceeded to almost literally take apart over a dozen Germans with his bare hands is probably true. In what was probably not my finest story of Auckland tourism, on the night of my first trip there (I've been to NZ about 6-7 times in all about 3-7 days each time), I saw three cars of Auckland's "finest" trying to wrestle a drunk Maori into the back of one of their cars. Seven whities with batons, and varying amounts of "armour" versus One Rather Impaired Maori. Frankly, I think they didn't have enough backup. Hitting a Maori with a stick just makes him crankier. And these aren't people you want cranky. That being said, I never once had a single issue with any Maori anywhere in NZ, and the bouncers at bars are friendly and hospitable (provided you aren't making trouble or trying to use fake IDs, no doubt). The Maoris, like many Asians and related peoples, often lack an enzyme to properly break down alcohols, so it's rather like poison to them. (If that doesn't sink the nail into the coffin regarding the "authenticity" of Mai Tai cocktails, I'm not sure what will - but hey, what does that matter?) Oops, did I mention I tend to meander a bit in my posts? :) Mahalo to PapeToaTane for the heads up on the local scene. I figured that if any place in the US would have a thriving Tiki scene, it'd be here in Southern California. I'm realising more and more every day how lucky I am to live here. It'll be three years now. Los Angeles, like all great cities of the world, often conceal some of their best treasures. It takes some time and living there to find and appreciate them. On 2005-04-26 21:17, ZebraTiki wrote: Welcome to Tiki Central! Wow! What an entrance! Why, thank you. It all just sort of "gushed out" semi-stream-of-consciousness style. Isn't the Cinerama Dome the coolest dome you ever saw a film in? Absolutely. My first film there was the recently restored/cleaned up Scarface. [Oliver Stone is one talented man - love or hate his politics as you will, he wrote some of the most memorable cinema, including another one of my old adolescent favourites: Conan the Barbarian] The print was amazing - and combined with a story which dates exceptionally well (aside from perhaps the over-the-top ending), I almost felt like it was 1980 again. I try to catch "spectacle" films at the Dome - it's truly a wonderful place to see films. I missed out on see It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World which is one of the first Cinerama films, and the Dome is probably the only place in the country (world?) where you can actually see Cinerama projected properly from Cinerama prints! I was a toddler and just remember the dome building and the great expanses of ice in the film, and being disappointed with the lack of zebras! You Angelenos are so lucky to have grown up here in many ways. There are so many awesome things for kids to grow up with, and contrary to "World Expectation", this isn't a place where everyone cowers in fear of getting "caps" popped into their "azzez". Then again, there are some HELLS I could have lived without experiencing (even just the sight of): turkey burgers, soybean hotdogs, chicken sausage, and turkey bacon, and "low-carb pancakes". If Hell has a Chef, surely he's in charge of concocting these abominations. Fortunately, there are still places like Pinks, Philip's BBQ, Woody's, Phillipe's (French Dip), 'Scoe's (awesome fried chicken), and the best/most authentic Thai of any US city I've been to [Ruen Pair!]. And while I miss Atlas Bakery and other Bay Area (NorCal) artisan bakers, La Brea bread does manage to satisfy. To answer your last question, we all probably presume that you have made your journey to Tiki-Ti? No! Amazingly, not. I'm still "that green" to this whole concept. I don't even have a proper shirt for such a venue, though I still have three "Hilo Hattie" Hawai'ian shirts in storage somewhere from my last trip to Hawai'i (ooh, about a century ago?) I think a trip to Out of the Closet is in order. Go. Tonight. This sounds like very sage advice. I think tomorrow (Wednesday) at the -Ti sounds in order. I might not be "appropriately dressed" though unless I can find a "Tiki Fashion Crisis Centre". Do they serve any of those classic "flaming drinks" at the Tiki-Ti? I remember Mai Tais and Zombies with some fondness, but it's been FOREVER since I've had them, let alone properly mixed. I will need to "recalibrate" my tastes to what is canonical, I feel. Aside from Trader Vic's, does anyone do a "Pu-Pu Platter" anymore? Mahalo for the warm welcome, =Kukoae=

On 2005-04-26 21:03, stentiki wrote:
I wonder if Tikigreg knows about the Southseas?

If he lived there during the first half of the 1980s (or prior), and was near enough to Hartford, it was a hard spot to miss.

I was also very intrigued with your experiences in New Zealand, Hawaii, and especially Vanuatu, a place where I hope to visit someday.

Vanuatu has many sights to offer, but remember they are Melanesians rather than Polynesians. The culture is very different; daring to make such an evaluation, I'd say the Polynesian peoples are far more advanced and "intact" comparatively.

For one thing, the Maoris weren't pushovers for White Colonials - they gave as good as they got. For another, even a cursory inspection of Polynesian (at least Maori with my own limited academic exposure) culture reveals it's highly evolved with all of the classic signs of "civilisation": lots of skill specialisation with preliminary forms of "abstract government", i.e., a ruler or officer who holds position not solely through force of arms, etc.

The Maori martial techniques, while not as surgical or elaborately choreographed as Asian styles, are not mere "hack and slash". Young warriors underwent (painful) training with a variety of weapons, many of which seemed rather useful for bisecting the skull with a single "crack!".

When you see a Polynesian crack open a coconut perfectly bisected hemispherically with a deft tap in just the right place, keep in mind they used those skills on animal targets as well. Whoa.

If you make it to The Land of the Long White Cloud (Aotearoa)[NZ], I highly suggest a visit to Rotorua where some careful Maori-owned recreations of Maori villages can be visited. Tamaki Tours in Rotorua operates one where you get to partake of a "hangi" [HAHNG-ee] (feast). The tour group is "cast" into the role of a "visiting tribe" to the village, and an (un?)lucky "volunteer" gets to face down an enormous Maori dude who does his "demon face" and mock belligerent act in front of you (the proper response is "none").

It's extremely educational. I didn't see anything this structured in Hawai'i, though I realise that the Hawai'ian peoples are all but gone (very few pure-blooded stocks left), being a minority on their own islands.

Some of the backpacker owners thought Tamaki was a bit too "political" or "confrontational", but hey, it doesn't hurt to be on the receiving end of some criticism once in a while. Besides which, the warnings were wholly unjustified. They made each guest feel very welcome, and while they didn't pull any punches in detailing their recent history, they certainly didn't "trade an eye for an eye" on that score. I rather liked how they tried to set a "serious" tone for the experience, so that you did have to exert a little effort and some creativity to "join into the experience" properly.

If you want to interface with "real/living" Polynesians, I think the Maoris are your best example. They retained alot of their pride/strength/dignity, and there was some spirit left in them by the time the quasi-cultural apatheid had reversed to one where the government acknowledged and formally accepted their cultural diversity. Maori is taught in NZ schools, and many non-Maoris do speak some of it.

They are the hugest people you're going to meet. I don't mean "porky" huge like Samoans, but freaking HUGE powerhouses of strength and muscle. Needless to say, every bar in Auckland has a Maori for a bouncer. The great thing about them is that you never need more than one.

The old story about a Maori soldier going berzerk during WW2 after seeing a fallen comrade who then proceeded to almost literally take apart over a dozen Germans with his bare hands is probably true.

In what was probably not my finest story of Auckland tourism, on the night of my first trip there (I've been to NZ about 6-7 times in all about 3-7 days each time), I saw three cars of Auckland's "finest" trying to wrestle a drunk Maori into the back of one of their cars. Seven whities with batons, and varying amounts of "armour" versus One Rather Impaired Maori. Frankly, I think they didn't have enough backup. Hitting a Maori with a stick just makes him crankier. And these aren't people you want cranky. That being said, I never once had a single issue with any Maori anywhere in NZ, and the bouncers at bars are friendly and hospitable (provided you aren't making trouble or trying to use fake IDs, no doubt).

The Maoris, like many Asians and related peoples, often lack an enzyme to properly break down alcohols, so it's rather like poison to them. (If that doesn't sink the nail into the coffin regarding the "authenticity" of Mai Tai cocktails, I'm not sure what will - but hey, what does that matter?)

Oops, did I mention I tend to meander a bit in my posts? :)

Mahalo to PapeToaTane for the heads up on the local scene. I figured that if any place in the US would have a thriving Tiki scene, it'd be here in Southern California. I'm realising more and more every day how lucky I am to live here. It'll be three years now. Los Angeles, like all great cities of the world, often conceal some of their best treasures. It takes some time and living there to find and appreciate them.

On 2005-04-26 21:17, ZebraTiki wrote:
Welcome to Tiki Central! Wow! What an entrance!

Why, thank you. It all just sort of "gushed out" semi-stream-of-consciousness style.

Isn't the Cinerama Dome the coolest dome you ever saw a film in?

Absolutely. My first film there was the recently restored/cleaned up Scarface. [Oliver Stone is one talented man - love or hate his politics as you will, he wrote some of the most memorable cinema, including another one of my old adolescent favourites: Conan the Barbarian] The print was amazing - and combined with a story which dates exceptionally well (aside from perhaps the over-the-top ending), I almost felt like it was 1980 again.

I try to catch "spectacle" films at the Dome - it's truly a wonderful place to see films. I missed out on see It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World which is one of the first Cinerama films, and the Dome is probably the only place in the country (world?) where you can actually see Cinerama projected properly from Cinerama prints!

I was a toddler and just remember the dome building and the great expanses of ice in the film, and being disappointed with the lack of zebras!

You Angelenos are so lucky to have grown up here in many ways. There are so many awesome things for kids to grow up with, and contrary to "World Expectation", this isn't a place where everyone cowers in fear of getting "caps" popped into their "azzez".

Then again, there are some HELLS I could have lived without experiencing (even just the sight of): turkey burgers, soybean hotdogs, chicken sausage, and turkey bacon, and "low-carb pancakes". If Hell has a Chef, surely he's in charge of concocting these abominations.

Fortunately, there are still places like Pinks, Philip's BBQ, Woody's, Phillipe's (French Dip), 'Scoe's (awesome fried chicken), and the best/most authentic Thai of any US city I've been to [Ruen Pair!]. And while I miss Atlas Bakery and other Bay Area (NorCal) artisan bakers, La Brea bread does manage to satisfy.

To answer your last question, we all probably presume that you have made your journey to Tiki-Ti?

No! Amazingly, not. I'm still "that green" to this whole concept. I don't even have a proper shirt for such a venue, though I still have three "Hilo Hattie" Hawai'ian shirts in storage somewhere from my last trip to Hawai'i (ooh, about a century ago?) I think a trip to Out of the Closet is in order.

Go. Tonight.

This sounds like very sage advice. I think tomorrow (Wednesday) at the -Ti sounds in order. I might not be "appropriately dressed" though unless I can find a "Tiki Fashion Crisis Centre".

Do they serve any of those classic "flaming drinks" at the Tiki-Ti? I remember Mai Tais and Zombies with some fondness, but it's been FOREVER since I've had them, let alone properly mixed. I will need to "recalibrate" my tastes to what is canonical, I feel.

Aside from Trader Vic's, does anyone do a "Pu-Pu Platter" anymore?

Mahalo for the warm welcome,

=Kukoae=

Post #155137 by Kukoae on Tue, Apr 26, 2005 11:51 PM