Post #491894 by tiki mick on Wed, Nov 4, 2009 6:37 AM

On 2009-11-04 04:27, congatiki wrote:
Hey, I didn't start this thread, I simply responded to a question.
That question was what we thought of one direction of Mickey Hart's
music. Isn't that what a forum should be, question, response?

It's funny that a member who portrays himself as part of the "Un Kool"
wants to set all the standards for what is worth discussing or
listening to. Maybe there should be a thread titled "Appropriate
tiki lounge music that Vigor hates!"

At any rate it doesn't matter to me, doesn't affect what I listen
to, and I'm never gonna be rubbing elbows with you experts anyway.

Not too long ago Vigor was gonna leave and find a lounge music formum
because he wasn't getting enough response here, apparently he wasn't
getting validated enough. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that
"only two" of us have piped in to endorse Hart's percussion bands.
There has been some discussion, in fact more than a number of recent
posts. Members know what happens here when you guys get your groove on,
and most simply want to avoid being shouted down.

Final points....
Mickey Hart compatible with tiki lounge music?....worth discussing.
Planet Drum/etc is "hippie music"? Wrong kids...take a listen. It's
critically acclaimed, award winning "world music" that encompasses many
of the moods and vibes of exotic or exotica music. I don't care
if you don't like it...just don't be stupid about it.

First off, you have been following my career on tiki central a little to closely. I quit posting for a long time for a lot of reasons, mainly because few people seemed to understand what polypop was all about, and several of my fellow artists apparently are also hippies and got really offended that I ain't one as well. Oh, they collect every mug in existence, but when push comes to shove the MUSIC they like is Shania Twain, Jimmy Buffet and hippy crap of all stripes. Yes, that bothers me. This is supposed to be a tiki forum. But I encounter a lot of TINOs here. (Tiki in name only).

Second, since you follow my posts so carefully and keep track of everything I say, you would notice that I have some other tastes in music not related to Tiki...and guess where I post them? In BILGE where they belong. That's where your hippy crap music like Mickey Hart belongs. In Bilge.

It's not ME who is deciding what is cool. My tastes and attitudes towards lounge and tiki are exactly reflected in major tomes like "Book of tiki" or ANY of the liner notes to ANY of the capitol record's ultra-lounge series. Have you read them? Or is the "party city" approach to tiki good enough for you?

As far as not getting support for lounge and real tiki here, there are actually a few people who agree with me. Most probably secretly agree, but don't want to get involved in any "hot" topics here, so they don't try to chime in and support my position. Some have chimed in, because they too are bothered by the slow encroachment of non-tiki elements to this forum. They don't want to see this place "buffetized" and that's where things seem to be heading. Others are like me, state their opinions and are percieved as "Negative" because everything that comes out of their mouths is not happy and fuzzy and touchy-feely. I can't believe, for example, how many times big tiki dude has been flamed for his tastes or opinions. And guess what, the guy is a total expert when it comes to music. He calls it like he sees it and I have nothing but respect for a man that goes against the PC grain and stands on his principles.

But then again, it is not MY position. As I have said, my tastes are the same as anyone who is into lounge and retro culture. People like me do not get into crappy hippy music. That music is terrible, really. There is nothing sophisticated either techincally, musically or stylistically about it. With a couple of exceptions, it is basically the work of self-taught garage musicians. That's fine if you like it. Good for you. But don't get all upset with me if I tell you I don't like it, and give you my reasons. No need to call me "stupid" because I don't like dirty smelly hippy music. There are tons of real world musicians I like and respect who are MILES ahead of Mickey Hart in every category. That guy just has the money and the star power to do whatever he wants. Doesn't mean he is qualified. You need to check out Zakir Hussein or Trilok Gurtu to see what a REAL percussionist does.

Go back and read the subject header for this section of the forum if you are having trouble understanding what kind of music is considered tiki by the owner and operator of this forum. It's pretty clear to me that hippy music ain't it.

And for the record, I was raised as and supposed to be a hippy. But since an early age both me and my brother laughed at all the inane hippy things we encountered.

Some examples: My mom had a bunch of hippies over to the house. Despite the fact that we had perfectly good furniture, you hippies insisted on sitting indian style or cross legged on the carpet. That made no sense to me or my brother. as I recall, he even asked "Mom, don't they like our chairs?"

1971, standing in the line at Disneyland, waiting for "adventure to inner space"...there was a hippy playing some wooden flute just ahead of us. Always being musicians, we asked him "what are you playing?" Hippy looked at us and said "I'm just playing my feelings, man". We were confused. We wanted to know what type of instrument it was. The hippy did not have much talent anyway, and what he was playing sounded horrible. My 4 year old brother deadpanned, "oh, you feel bad then?" We laughed about it for the rest of the day.

1973, My uncle (who looked almost exactly like John Lennon) had a female friend who did not like to shave her armpits. However, she did enjoy doing fake "tai chi" (She had never really seriously studied it) at what is now triangle square in costa mesa. In other words, she really wanted everyone to see her stretching and doing her stuff. It was all for show, so everyone would know how "spiritual" she was. Apparently, her own backyard was not good enough.

I could give you countless examples of the pretentious hippies I have encountered in life. I was born in the early 60's, not of that generation but always an observer. I will tell you this much: Hippies are always willing to accept mediocracy in life. For a hippy, things are always "good enough". few seem to understand the work involved.

It's like being a true jazz artist,folks. You don't just cash in your parents trust fund and suddenly become a jazz artist and start releasing albums. If you don't know the lineage and where the music came from, the path from dixieland to swing to bebop to cool and onwards, you really are not understanding the forces and thoughts that combine to create the style of jazz. It takes hard work and practice to be good at music, but a lot of hippies sidestep that and take the easy way out. Everything is "groovy" and we are just "playing our feelings", and that should be good enough. Not in my opinion. If any of the current members of Phish could be time- travelled back to the Les Baxter era, and put on the stage with him with the charts to "quiet village" in front of them, I think they would be hopelessly lost.

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2009-11-04 07:00 ]