"What's my Beef" with Atomic Tiki Punk - Bilge

A aquarj Tiki Socialite SF bay area, CA Joined: Apr 02, 2002 Posts: 1125	A aquarj Posted posted on Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:39 PM OK, I simply can't keep up with the pace of some of the more frequent posting here on TC, so sometimes I'm a little slow coming into, or back to, a thread. For the record, I do not participate in exchanges of insults and name calling, so you will not see me escalate that kind of behavior on this thread, or any thread. Or in real life either. I guess I should post something here. Despite the title of this thread, I guess the initial reason for making this was to divert the discussion of whether the What's "Cooking" in Tiki Central? thread belongs in the Tiki Drinks and Food forum. I was off TC for a couple days, and it looks like the topic has been moved anyway. But I think ATP is reasonable to ask that any more "tiki or not" discussion about that thread goes elsewhere, namely here. As for my part in it, I made one post on that "dinner" thread. All of the following statements were made before my post... ...many meals posted here would not be considered a "Tiki" meal,but the point was to include all types of food I've seen more Mexican, Italian, Greek, and Middle Eastern dishes than anything nearly qualifying as 'tiki dinner' or fare. What does eating home cooked Pizza or Hamburgers have to do with tiki dinner? Maybe now that the title has been changed, a little more 'on topic' discretion will be applied to the posted meals. More Tiki please. This is Tiki CENTRAL, not a Tupperware party. ...on a website called Tiki Central, ideally things should stay "Tiki" in their theme! ...there's nothing Tiki about Mexican food or corn dogs, period! Not a single one of these posted statements was attacked or whatever. I thought it was pretty much universally agreed that the "dinner" thread was not even trying to be tiki-related. My ONE POST was hardly a departure, containing statements like, "people prefer the tiki forums to be tiki-related" OR "as just ONE THREAD I don't think it's really hurting anybody, and don't personally care that much if it moves." And yet I'm the one who gets a lecture on manners from someone who clearly PERSISTS in ignoring several of the basic TC House Rules on forum manners. We're up to five now that are being totally disregarded, including all of the top three: 1. No politics 2. Refrain from insults and name-calling 3. Never threaten (seriously or jokingly) plus these two 12. If your topic gets moderated (locked, moved, edited), do not take it personally. Moderating is done to improve readability of the site and is not punishment. Beyond Tiki & Bilge: Please post non-Tiki messages that you think TC members will be interested in here. It seems to me that anyone who finds it contemptible to say that non-tiki threads should go in Beyond or Bilge, is showing their own contempt for the TC House Rules and actually for the community at large. As for the insults, I'm a grownup and I can live with insults just fine, and I have no interest in complaining to moderators or whatever. But I'm also surprised at how few others or moderators were offended by this stream of invective. Somebody even calls it "smoothing things over"! Glad to see leleliz calling this behavior out for what it is, but sad to see it continuing. And it really is sad, because it twists the discussion into being misinterpreted over and over again as some kind of personal animus or negativity about the actual dishes that were being posted, or whatever. Witness this thread here itself, which was created to bitch about what's tiki, but is for some reason given a subject title about ATP personally. I defy anyone to find an example of actual negativity about the dishes that were shared, beyond the question of tiki or not. The actual attempts to praise the dishes, and highlight common ground, were many. paraphrasing: It is us, whose "Art" is "Cooking" that will define Tiki Cuisine today This is a beautiful idea that I find very appealing and compelling. This would be a very cool tiki-related discussion. I recently read Victor Bergeron's autobiography, and many of his recipes had interesting stories behind them. And along these lines, I like the threads that were recently created to truly promote the discussion of tiki-related recipes and how they could be considered as such. But if you honestly randomly look around in the "dinner" thread, there's very little attempt to relate the dishes to tiki (before the tongue-in-cheek attempts after p.75), or to talk about pairing with cocktails as Sabu described. On the contrary, when the idea of even trying to be tiki-related came up, it was treated as an irritant and disruption, to be mostly mocked. The fact is that the dinner thread is primarily a socializing and sharing thread among a community of talented cooks, without necessarily worrying about whether the discourse or the dishes stay tiki-related. I don't know how many ways to try communicating this - THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!! Socializing threads are as old as TC itself, and they're a natural part of the community, even if they're non-tiki. The dinner thread offers a great theme for a non-tiki socializing thread, and I don't see what's wrong with just acknowledging it for what it is. And yes, I do understand the angle that the dinner thread has been primarily about food, so even if it's not trying to be 100% tiki-related, people are more likely to find it if it lives in Tiki Drinks and Food. I don't totally discount that perspective, but I don't share that opinion. Carving something non-tiki might likewise be considered appropriate for Tiki Carving, and same goes for music, marketplace, etc. Anyway, that's the opinion I was trying to communicate in a polite way in my ONE POST on the thread. To reiterate, I hope the dinner thread continues on its MAIN COURSE. Actually I never looked at it before, until it was referenced in another thread. My wife makes some amazing stuff, and she often RELISHes the presentation as much as the cooking. F'rinstance I don't know if anyone reading this would be among those TCers who were around in 2002 to see her easter island yams at an Oakland new year's tiki party. One of my first thoughts when I was looking through the dinner thread was that maybe I could post some of her dishes sometime - which are obviously non-tiki most of the time, just as I thought the thread was. But after all this volatility, I think I'll pass. -Randy

OK, I simply can't keep up with the pace of some of the more frequent posting here on TC, so sometimes I'm a little slow coming into, or back to, a thread.

For the record, I do not participate in exchanges of insults and name calling, so you will not see me escalate that kind of behavior on this thread, or any thread. Or in real life either.

I guess I should post something here. Despite the title of this thread, I guess the initial reason for making this was to divert the discussion of whether the What's "Cooking" in Tiki Central? thread belongs in the Tiki Drinks and Food forum. I was off TC for a couple days, and it looks like the topic has been moved anyway. But I think ATP is reasonable to ask that any more "tiki or not" discussion about that thread goes elsewhere, namely here. As for my part in it, I made one post on that "dinner" thread. All of the following statements were made before my post...

*...many meals posted here would not be considered a "Tiki" meal,but the
point was to include all types of food

I've seen more Mexican, Italian, Greek, and Middle Eastern dishes than
anything nearly qualifying as 'tiki dinner' or fare.

What does eating home cooked Pizza or Hamburgers have to do with tiki
dinner?

Maybe now that the title has been changed, a little more 'on topic'
discretion will be applied to the posted meals. More Tiki please.

This is Tiki CENTRAL, not a Tupperware party.

...on a website called Tiki Central, ideally things should stay "Tiki" in
their theme! ...there's nothing Tiki about Mexican food or corn dogs,
period!*

Not a single one of these posted statements was attacked or whatever. I thought it was pretty much universally agreed that the "dinner" thread was not even trying to be tiki-related. My ONE POST was hardly a departure, containing statements like, "people prefer the tiki forums to be tiki-related" OR "as just ONE THREAD I don't think it's really hurting anybody, and don't personally care that much if it moves." And yet I'm the one who gets a lecture on manners from someone who clearly PERSISTS in ignoring several of the basic TC House Rules on forum manners. We're up to five now that are being totally disregarded, including all of the top three:

1. No politics
2. Refrain from insults and name-calling
3. Never threaten (seriously or jokingly)

plus these two

*12. If your topic gets moderated (locked, moved, edited), do not take it personally. Moderating is done to improve readability of the site and is not punishment.

Beyond Tiki & Bilge: Please post non-Tiki messages that you think TC members will be interested in here.*

It seems to me that anyone who finds it contemptible to say that non-tiki threads should go in Beyond or Bilge, is showing their own contempt for the TC House Rules and actually for the community at large. As for the insults, I'm a grownup and I can live with insults just fine, and I have no interest in complaining to moderators or whatever. But I'm also surprised at how few others or moderators were offended by this stream of invective. Somebody even calls it "smoothing things over"! Glad to see leleliz calling this behavior out for what it is, but sad to see it continuing.

And it really is sad, because it twists the discussion into being misinterpreted over and over again as some kind of personal animus or negativity about the actual dishes that were being posted, or whatever. Witness this thread here itself, which was created to bitch about what's tiki, but is for some reason given a subject title about ATP personally. I defy anyone to find an example of actual negativity about the dishes that were shared, beyond the question of tiki or not. The actual attempts to praise the dishes, and highlight common ground, were many.

paraphrasing: It is us, whose "Art" is "Cooking" that will define Tiki Cuisine today

This is a beautiful idea that I find very appealing and compelling. This would be a very cool tiki-related discussion. I recently read Victor Bergeron's autobiography, and many of his recipes had interesting stories behind them. And along these lines, I like the threads that were recently created to truly promote the discussion of tiki-related recipes and how they could be considered as such. But if you honestly randomly look around in the "dinner" thread, there's very little attempt to relate the dishes to tiki (before the tongue-in-cheek attempts after p.75), or to talk about pairing with cocktails as Sabu described. On the contrary, when the idea of even trying to be tiki-related came up, it was treated as an irritant and disruption, to be mostly mocked. The fact is that the dinner thread is primarily a socializing and sharing thread among a community of talented cooks, without necessarily worrying about whether the discourse or the dishes stay tiki-related. I don't know how many ways to try communicating this - THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!! Socializing threads are as old as TC itself, and they're a natural part of the community, even if they're non-tiki. The dinner thread offers a great theme for a non-tiki socializing thread, and I don't see what's wrong with just acknowledging it for what it is.

And yes, I do understand the angle that the dinner thread has been primarily about food, so even if it's not trying to be 100% tiki-related, people are more likely to find it if it lives in Tiki Drinks and Food. I don't totally discount that perspective, but I don't share that opinion. Carving something non-tiki might likewise be considered appropriate for Tiki Carving, and same goes for music, marketplace, etc. Anyway, that's the opinion I was trying to communicate in a polite way in my ONE POST on the thread.

To reiterate, I hope the dinner thread continues on its MAIN COURSE. Actually I never looked at it before, until it was referenced in another thread. My wife makes some amazing stuff, and she often RELISHes the presentation as much as the cooking. F'rinstance I don't know if anyone reading this would be among those TCers who were around in 2002 to see her easter island yams at an Oakland new year's tiki party. One of my first thoughts when I was looking through the dinner thread was that maybe I could post some of her dishes sometime - which are obviously non-tiki most of the time, just as I thought the thread was. But after all this volatility, I think I'll pass.

-Randy

Post #559839 by aquarj on Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:39 PM